Is there any legal way or institution to protect players from Publishers? #P2W #Paid Add-ons etc

Andel_Skaar

Recently there has been a wave of titles currently F2P implementing gameplay breaking items to the "Cash Shop"

Consumables that grant a player significantly more leverage gear-wise, are like a low kick in boxing, theyr just plain, wrong.

Granting players the opportunity to purchase the game once with all its merits, but charging add-on's that contain content or even worse gear-relevant value in them, is exploitation and extortion ,to say the least.

So, how to prevent this from happening any longer?

http://gamersbillofrights.org/
This is a start ,but hardly valid in the justice system, its a shady ground, that should get more definition and rules.

Think of it similar to selling poisoned food in markets with no consequences. Only here you dont go to the hospital, but after you feel as cheated, or stressed much, might very well go to psychiatrist..and give him the money greedy publishers demanded.

mgilbrtsn

If you can prove fraud, you might have a case.  However, that is gonna be expensive to litigate, and is it worth the 50 bucks you spent.

Andel_Skaar

Petitions are one way, shouldnt be too hard, if only there were some rules to support them, yes.

Quizzical

It's certainly legal to avoid playing and avoid paying for any game whose business model you do not approve of.  I do that all the time.  If you play early access games or even beta, before it's clear what the business model will eventually be, that's your problem right there.

One problem with that "gamer's bill of rights" is that it's so vague.  What exactly is "reasonable"?  How about "materially affect"?  "Adequately"?  "Inconvenienced"?  Much of it is so vague as to be meaningless.

waynejr2

I hate these gamer bill of rights people.   You don't have a right to a free to play game.  How about adding some rules in their rights about must spend money on games and avoid all free to play games.

Andel_Skaar

Yes, it requires something much more specific and wide than it is now, and on top of that, requires verifying that on court to be legal.

Andel_Skaar

waynejr2 said:

I hate these gamer bill of rights people.   You don't have a right to a free to play game.  How about adding some rules in their rights about must spend money on games and avoid all free to play games.

Would preventing publishers from imputing only certain balance breaking items into Cash Shops and so prevent much grief and time..
I mean, it sure would prevent thousands of forum and reddit posts for each title xD

Not playing the game from that point is a valid option, but it is not as effective, since the problem will persist in other titles as well. Its not that those games will go bankrupt ,if they do they job well, people will invest, why else would utterly balanced games like Path of Exile and League of Legends be such a great success.

Andel_Skaar

I personally yeah, might be loony foolish to think "Gamers" could have any rights, i mean xD
Not like we have any valid competitions, right.

But some people really do get angry, i mean so so angry, they spam the hell outta forums and reddit, its a grief fest when publishers interfere with online titles, must be the way of the world..

Pepeq

So basically, you want the Government to protect you from yourself?

Outlaw money... problem solved.

Adjuvant1

I went round and round about this months ago. Some people, because of brain chemistry, just have a more difficult time saying "no". Some other people consult psychological studies how best to exploit that aspect of manipulable people.

If one could somehow prove that tactics are being employed to exploit the psychological weaknesses of people, there would be a point, but we can't. No one is going to go through the motions of this, far preferring, once the understanding is made, to get on board as one of the opportunists. In a capitalistic society, it's particularly "against the grain" to research ways to protect people from predatory purveyors.

Where does the line get crossed? Gambling? Luxury goods? Plastic surgery? We've all seen unreasonable excesses of these, and yet in the end, the extreme examples are the folly of the participant. There might not be, any time soon, examination of the possibility that it's targeted victimization of specific weakness.

Righteous_Rock

Bait and Switch - look it up

GeezerGamer

The only way this would get regulated would be if there was a way for the Govt. to be able to get a piece of the pie. If there is no money in it for them, they won't feel it needs attention.

FlyByKnight

You can't protect the players because the players won't even do the most basic of things like protect themselves. Stop being whales, fanbois, and white knights before these games have built full release credibility. Idiocracy though.

Kopogero

In 12 days it will be 5 years since any new game has took my $. So, I did "voted" with my wallet. Still though I would always prefer F2P + P2W over P2P/B2P + P2W like many have become recently Guild Wars 2, Black Desert, World of Warcraft, etc. GW2 did convert to F2P, but expansion isn't.

khanstruct

How is this not a joke? Game devs don't owe you anything. Playing a video game is not your "right". Don't like it? Don't play it.

Andel_Skaar

DMKano said:

This entire thing only benefits lawyers in the end.

Too bad many don't see the obvious motive here - who is pushing this - oh yeah lawfirms that would benefit.

Self serving interest masqueraded as "doing good for the gamers".

Talk about bait and swith - this entire gamer bill of rights is exactly that.

Yet that is the first thing that comes up when you google gamer rights.
And i seriously doubt any gamer would even think of going outside, yet alone hire someone and go to court xD waste precious gaming time, we are gamers after all.

What would help is marginalise publisher rights to interfere with the game world balance to begin with, by consumer rights or something like that i have no idea, dont hold a law degree exactly.. and i only hope its even possible in the future.

craftseeker

A13xand37 said:

DMKano said:

This entire thing only benefits lawyers in the end.

Too bad many don't see the obvious motive here - who is pushing this - oh yeah lawfirms that would benefit.

Self serving interest masqueraded as "doing good for the gamers".

Talk about bait and swith - this entire gamer bill of rights is exactly that.

Yet that is the first thing that comes up when you google gamer rights.
And i seriously doubt any gamer would even think of going outside, yet alone hire someone and go to court xD waste precious gaming time, we are gamers after all.

What would help is marginalise publisher rights to interfere with the game world balance to begin with, by consumer rights or something like that i have no idea, dont hold a law degree exactly.. and i only hope its even possible in the future.

You have a very peculiar view there.   The game is the publishers product, they retain the right to change or modify the product at any time.  Now if the product is changed in a way that makes it 'unmerchantable' you may be entitled to a refund.  You may also be entitled to a refund during the first 30 days of use if the product does not meet your expectations.  But if you do not pay anything the product then you have no loss to claim.

You also do not and should not have the right to stop the publisher selling additional products, that would be 'restraint of trade'.

Grunty

Step one is to create a single world government.

Leon1e

Everybody enjoys different shit, deal with it special snowflake. Some players like p2w games. It's not up to you to judge them. There are plenty of options anyway. Suck it up or change the genre. It's a consumer's market. Vote with your wallet. 

khanstruct

A13xand37 said:

DMKano said:

This entire thing only benefits lawyers in the end.

Too bad many don't see the obvious motive here - who is pushing this - oh yeah lawfirms that would benefit.

Self serving interest masqueraded as "doing good for the gamers".

Talk about bait and swith - this entire gamer bill of rights is exactly that.

Yet that is the first thing that comes up when you google gamer rights.
And i seriously doubt any gamer would even think of going outside, yet alone hire someone and go to court xD waste precious gaming time, we are gamers after all.

What would help is marginalise publisher rights to interfere with the game world balance to begin with, by consumer rights or something like that i have no idea, dont hold a law degree exactly.. and i only hope its even possible in the future.

It's their game. They made it. You have zero rights in telling them what they can or cannot change or add to it.

I got Star Wars Risk for Christmas. It's heavily geared to favor the Rebellion. (They win almost every time.) Can I take Hasbro to court because the game isn't fair?

This whole idea is childish and arrogant.

filmoret

This has been happening since the internet started.  Pay to Win has always been around and will always be around.  You just need to be smart enough to never play those games.

bcbully

So DLCs are bad now?

tinuelle

Yeah! As long as a F2P game has pure cosmetics only in their shop, well horray for them, but I aint buying anything cosmetic cause I dont care for it. And that is why pure cosmetic shop leads to fail F2P, cause it caters to a small part of the players and is bad at making players do recurring purchases.

Don't Get me wrong. I love F2P without P2W items and wish all games was like that. Cause I love AAA and free. Though havent seen the model work good for other than MOBAs.

Andel_Skaar

filmoret said:

This has been happening since the internet started.  Pay to Win has always been around and will always be around.  You just need to be smart enough to never play those games.

Yep ,loox like it. No going around it. Only choice is play or dont, buy or not.

nariusseldon

lol .. we are talking about games here.

The way you protect yourself is simple. Do NOT play the games you do not like. 

This is like saying .. how to protect movie goers from bad movies. Really?

Kiyoris

mgilbrtsn said:

If you can prove fraud, you might have a case.  However, that is gonna be expensive to litigate, and is it worth the 50 bucks you spent.

You don't need to prove anything, you can just chargeback your money, and the company will get a fine on top of it.

And the reason MMO companies can't challenge chargebacks, is because when they do take it farther and it becomes a legal issue, and they actually get accused of minors gambling money in their game, not only will their game get shut down..they'll go to jail.