Funding/Acquisition of PFO

wmmarcellino

From Lisa Stevens' recent end of year address:

"Just today, I received a signed letter of intent from a company that wants to take on the Pathfinder Online legacy and see it through to completion.  One of the principals of this company has been playing Pathfinder Online since day 1 and understands the vision for the game we are making.  The company recently came up to Seattle to the Goblinworks offices and we had 2 productive and exciting days planning for the future and what this game can be.

Now this acquisition of the Pathfinder Online game is incumbent upon them finalizing the funding they are currently in negotiations for, but all signs are very positive on that front right now.  This funding will give Pathfinder Online more money to invest in the game than has been spent in over 4 years of development.  This will significantly accelerate the development and support of the game to a point unprecedented in Pathfinder Online history.  If things continue to go well, they expect to take over the game entirely by March 1, 2016. 

In the meantime, the legacy team has been working for the month of December on doing a bunch of polish and bug fixing in the game.  The biggest new thing will be the long-awaited and desired vault sorting of personal, company, and settlements vaults.  The vaults will use an interface very similar to that used in the Auction House right now.  Also, auctions will last for a month instead of a week."

Azaron_Nightblade

I'm glad to hear the game will be saved. Things weren't looking so good there for a while.

Asm0deus

Seems like a case of too little too late if this even goes through, the game looks and runs like crap tbh.

Slapshot1188

Legacy Team....  ummm...   O.o

Bluddwolf

Slapshot's sarcasm aside, for those who don't know what that means "Legacy Team", it means the three developers still employed by Goblin Works / Paizo.

"More money than previously spent in the past 4 years" = As little as 4 million dollars.  That would bring the total up to about 8 million dollars to develop an MMO.  

There is finally some talk that a game engine upgrade is a serious consideration, although I will say it is an absolute requirement.  Even though the talk is moving to Unity 5, not the ideal MMO engine, it will still be an improvement over the obsolete Unity 4 engine.  

No mention of whether or not the game, under a new development company, will go with a relaunch that includes a wipe.  Again, I think that that too is a must.  If they can't slap on the "It's a fresh start" label on it, what will be the attraction for new players to come to the game?  How will reviewers be convinced to give the game a second look / review? 

Re release on STEAM should be another marketing move to attract more players.  

The one question that has not been asked or answered directly is, How does Lisa or Whomever is taking over plan on putting the first "M" (Massively) into the MMO tag?

Lyrian

I'm happy to hear that they got the investors to save PFO...but they have a ton of work cut out for them. The game needs to go away from a PvP/control focus and more into the traditional DnD adventure with sandbox elements on top of it. Not this...pesudo-EVE leveling thing they have going on, that bit needs to go, FAST.

The area that they've chosen to have the game is probably the richest area of story in terms of Pathfinder story, seriously go grab the actual sourcebook for this place in game, or check it out on a wiki. What their source material says and what they've come up with diverges so much, it almost physically hurts to see what they've created.

If their investor is bringing in the high eight to nine figures for their investment, then I think it can turn into a serious contender if they make good design choices. Right now we just need to wait and see if they make better design choices, or throw more money after the decisions that got them here in the first place.

Slapshot1188

Lyrian said:

IWhat their source material says and what they've come up with diverges so much, it almost physically hurts to see what they've created.

Could not agree more... but at this point there is no way to realize that potential as they have gone down a long, one way path to get where they are.

AndiusMeuridiar

I kind of agree the EVE leveling system needs to go. It's useless to have an EVE system paired with traditional grinding to unlock the skills. That pairs the worst of the EVE system (time based barrier to entry that can not be sped up in any way) with the worst of action based leveling system (doing content you don't enjoy doing for the simple purpose of advancing your character.)

I think a much cooler system would be to decrease to gap in power between veteran and newb and create a system based around unlocking skills which are different but not necessarily more powerful than those you start with. A great example of this was the original Guild Wars which allowed you to reach max level and maximum gear strength very quickly but had hundreds of skills to hunt down and experiment with.   

Probably ideas based saved for another game with it's own lore/world though.

Bluddwolf

So it has been six months since the announcement of this new group of investors and still no signs of it actually happening.  

I have already divested myself from the game, having sold my account for almost what I spent on t, but having had nearly two years of game time with the game, so I think I came out ahead.

that being said, I would still give the game a second go if it relaunched with a new engine, new vision and a complete wipe.

Slapshot1188

Bluddwolf said:

that being said, I would still give the game a second go if it relaunched with a new engine, new vision and a complete wipe.

So that would be... if it were a totally new game

Bluddwolf

Slapshot1188 said:

Bluddwolf said:

that being said, I would still give the game a second go if it relaunched with a new engine, new vision and a complete wipe.

So that would be... if it were a totally new game

Yes, basically, I'd give a completely new version of Pathfinder Online a second chance.  

Dakeru

Well and this is why PFO matters - it will always remind you to be sceptical.

Bluddwolf

Dakeru said:

Well and this is why PFO matters - it will always remind you to be sceptical.

What has mattered thus far is that PFO has scared me off from paying a lot for Early Access and it has driven me away from MMOs (at least for some time to come).  

Wizardry

Such a very bad idea,the game is and was NOT designed well enough from day 1 because it had too much design around a low budget.So all that will happen is to continue with that same low budget design,nothing good will come of it.

I sort of blame Lisa,it was her idea to go for a cheap build.If you can't do an IP justice,imo don't even try.
Any investor investing in such a losing venture,either has money to burn or simply loves the IP and wants to see any kind of game come out of it.

Worse yet is you NEED an ANGLE,what exactly is the sell of this game,i have never seen an angle to this day,to simply sell it based on the IP alone?

AndiusMeuridiar

This game's angle was to be a PvP / player interaction driven game that resulted in less random carnage than other titles going for that angle. It aimed to appeal to players that love deep player driven politics and storylines found in titles like EVE, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Wurm PvP Servers etc. but who weren't looking for the "Every random person you meet will try to kill you" environments such games produced.

The problem they ran into was their "Crowdforging" process. They had a lot of people in their community really interested in what they were selling but who were not experienced in titles like the ones I just mentioned. Therefore these people had little to no relevant experience or valuable input on how to create such a game, but they were the largest group represented and therefore had the largest impact on early development priorities. 

What this game desperately needed was risk vs. reward in that players looking for maximum rewards would have to assume additional PvP risks, but what it got was a load of "crowdforgers" whining about how they wanted everything without having to subject themselves to any additional risk. The massive uproar caused by the suggestion of turning a few small zones filled with valuable resources into PvP zones free of reputation loss proved this community's lack of qualifications to be partners in the design of a PvP game.

The result was that the PvP system was completely screwed up and player driven interaction as a replacement for scripted content failed to produce the rich, engaging gameplay it did in other similar titles. By the time they had any semblance of a PvP system, which was still sub par last time I looked in on it, most everyone had given up on the game altogether.

Bluddwolf

Handing out speeding tickets on a Nascar track will never make a good racing experience.  I used this analogy in trying to explain the flaws in this game designer's vision, long before it even entered Alpha.  Any game that is supposedly built on the premise that PVP is its core, must have Risk vs. Reward and can not get so bogged down with trying to limit PVP to the point that no one actually does it.  Then to make matters worse, when a few individuals were accepting of all of the negative consequences of rewardless PVP, large segments of the community attack them for providing that content that should have been greatly appreciated. 

Instead what they wanted was the same old, risk free, PVE content where everyone gets a prize, just for showing up.  

By far the most boring MMO I have ever played

Slapshot1188

Pay for Alpha with a promise of no wiping was the stake in the heart for this game.

Slapshot1188

Also, I just checked.  Apparently their new, new, new, new target date for sale is August 1st.  The company claims it wants 25 full time developers and expects a population of tens of thousands.

Bluddwolf

Slapshot1188 said:

Also, I just checked.  Apparently their new, new, new, new target date for sale is August 1st.  The company claims it wants 25 full time developers and expects a population of tens of thousands.

You must be joking, or they are delusional.  At its greatest population it maybe had 2000, but there were some people with like 20+ accounts, so who knows the real numbers.  

Dakeru

Slapshot1188 said:

Also, I just checked.  Apparently their new, new, new, new target date for sale is August 1st.  The company claims it wants 25 full time developers and expects a population of tens of thousands.

The sad part is that this will probably fool the same people again to buy into this crap. All it takes nowadays to get some funding is being an incompetent indie company that promises the sky.

Slapshot1188

Bluddwolf said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Also, I just checked.  Apparently their new, new, new, new target date for sale is August 1st.  The company claims it wants 25 full time developers and expects a population of tens of thousands.

You must be joking, or they are delusional.  At its greatest population it maybe had 2000, but there were some people with like 20+ accounts, so who knows the real numbers.  

Not joking.  It's posted on their forums.

They believe their target is actually the existing Pathfinder RPG base that has not been exposed to the MMO.

They apparently STILL don't get it...

MightyUnclean

Wow, is this turd still floating?

Nilden

Slapshot1188 said:

Bluddwolf said:

that being said, I would still give the game a second go if it relaunched with a new engine, new vision and a complete wipe.

So that would be... if it were a totally new game

They might as well scrap it and start again. No emoticon, I'm not joking.

Bluddwolf

Slapshot1188 said:

Bluddwolf said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Also, I just checked.  Apparently their new, new, new, new target date for sale is August 1st.  The company claims it wants 25 full time developers and expects a population of tens of thousands.

You must be joking, or they are delusional.  At its greatest population it maybe had 2000, but there were some people with like 20+ accounts, so who knows the real numbers.  

Not joking.  It's posted on their forums.

They believe their target is actually the existing Pathfinder RPG base that has not been exposed to the MMO.

They apparently STILL don't get it...

So, delusional then.  God, who even wants to play an MMO with TT PnP players?  And the PnP players lose their minds at the mere whif of PvP that actually has a consequence for losing.  

Lisa Stevens has obviously learned nothing from the snafu of the first attempt.  Still trying to run on a low budget and still marketing the game genre to the wrong crowd.

Azaron_Nightblade

Slapshot1188 said:

Bluddwolf said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Also, I just checked.  Apparently their new, new, new, new target date for sale is August 1st.  The company claims it wants 25 full time developers and expects a population of tens of thousands.

You must be joking, or they are delusional.  At its greatest population it maybe had 2000, but there were some people with like 20+ accounts, so who knows the real numbers.  

Not joking.  It's posted on their forums.

They believe their target is actually the existing Pathfinder RPG base that has not been exposed to the MMO.

They apparently STILL don't get it...

Yes, because every tabletop roleplayer wants a full loot gankfest filled with toxic people. xD

IMO they would've been off far better making the game like ARK or 7D2D. Where you choose how to play it. Want a gankfest? Fine, join a server that allows that stuff, or host one yourself. Interested in a different experience? Play with some friends and use a ruleset you actually like.

PottedPlant22

Slapshot1188 said:

Bluddwolf said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Also, I just checked.  Apparently their new, new, new, new target date for sale is August 1st.  The company claims it wants 25 full time developers and expects a population of tens of thousands.

You must be joking, or they are delusional.  At its greatest population it maybe had 2000, but there were some people with like 20+ accounts, so who knows the real numbers.  

Not joking.  It's posted on their forums.

They believe their target is actually the existing Pathfinder RPG base that has not been exposed to the MMO.

They apparently STILL don't get it...

Are they changing the focus into a PVE with settlements then based on Pathfinder IP?  That's the only way they'd attract that audience.  Lisa basically admitted it when she announced GoblinWorks going into survival mode until they find a buyer.  Her comment was saying they shouldn't have relied on Pathfinder RPG to fund a PVP game for kickstarter.  It was the fireside chat where she was telling everyone about what was happening.

If the game turns into a PVE/sandbox with settlements based on Pathfinder IP, I actually see that might work.  But that would require an overhaul of itemization, mobs, AI, etc.  But there is Pantheon and Project:Gorgon.  You can do that type of older school PVE experience on a budget.  You just need talented people working on it.  

Pathfinder Online did not have that.