Like the statue of a great dictator, the stone visage of MMO's will roll over, upon the shadow of WoW and create a new era. But that can no be complete until WoW shut's down. It needs to die, in order for MMO's to be reborn.
WoW still makes money but all the other games copy it are running dry, exception is FFXIV which is making money still.
I'm just going to come out and say it. This is one of the dumber topics I've read on this site. The OP makes absolutely no sense what so ever. Honestly, the MMO genre before WoW was very niche. WoW brought in a much broader audience in the genre, for better or worse. The "better or worse" really depends on how you look at it. Either way without WoW it is fairly easy to estimate that we would have far less MMO's to play in general.
With that said without WoW our genre would be lessened not amplified. At least that's my 2 cents.
While I agree overall, of this pile of MMOs, remove any that are high fantasy, class-based, gear-centric quest grinds (like WoW). I think you'd be left with like... four.
It is the "Free Candy" van of MMOs. It may draw in lots of kids, but that's not necessarily a good thing.
I think OP is right in one way. WoW does stand as an example of "this is an MMO", which is why so many (almost all) MMOs follow its formula. If WoW were to close up shop, it may release/cast doubt on that preconception, and developers may start to innovate for an evolving genre.
I think OP is right in one way. WoW does stand as an example of "this is an MMO", which is why so many (almost all) MMOs follow its formula. If WoW were to close up shop, it may release/cast doubt on that preconception, and developers may start to innovate for an evolving genre.
It is also an evolving genre. MOBAs, instanced pvp games, instanced pve games like warframe and destiny.
It is just that many do not like the direction the genre is evolving into.
I think OP is right in one way. WoW does stand as an example of "this is an MMO", which is why so many (almost all) MMOs follow its formula. If WoW were to close up shop, it may release/cast doubt on that preconception, and developers may start to innovate for an evolving genre.
It is also an evolving genre. MOBAs, instanced pvp games, instanced pve games like warframe and destiny.
It is just that many do not like the direction the genre is evolving into.
If that were true then the genre would not be moving in that direction. We are most definitely the minority.
I think OP is right in one way. WoW does stand as an example of "this is an MMO", which is why so many (almost all) MMOs follow its formula. If WoW were to close up shop, it may release/cast doubt on that preconception, and developers may start to innovate for an evolving genre.
It is also an evolving genre. MOBAs, instanced pvp games, instanced pve games like warframe and destiny.
It is just that many do not like the direction the genre is evolving into.
If that were true then the genre would not be moving in that direction. We are most definitely the minority.
I mean "many here". Clearly the masses like the direction. For example, LoL is now more successful than WOW in both revenue and player numbers.
That would be a bit like saying that we will have the golden age of FPS just as soon as someone promise to never make another Doom game.... Maybe Quake would be a bettre example... But that is dead we have no "golden age"...
Wow is a non-issue for nearly every single player I played Wow with in it's classic era. I was part of a guild centered around several friends, a huge chunk of some of their own families (made families ... 2 married and now have a kid who met in Wow) and a multi-game community that had a guild from vanilla through Wotlk. They disbanded due it continually becoming something different from when it started as.
The guild was one of the largest guilds at the time ... and NOBODY plays Wow from it anymore.
Whether or not Wow exists today is meaningless. Many of those same players would join a new socially friendly mmorpg again in a heartbeat. Wow does not offer the game play that attracted us to it therefore it has nothing to do with the choice of playing a new mmo.
The only thing keeping a large former guild like ours reforming is the fact that nearly no current mmo offers a reason for the guild to exist currently. Most are far too solo friendly. We want a game that offers group play throughout the entire leveling process and beyond. Most mmos today only offer tiny little bits of group play mixed into a vast majority of solo play one MUST endure.
I hate what Wow has become but I an not a Wow hater. Myself and many others would play Wow again if it became the game it once used to be. Do not kid yourselves people, the masses who play Wow today are a different breed from who first started playing the game. Those left or continue to return have simply stomached a completed different game.
While it may have no consequence to the market at the time, I hope I live long enough to see that fucker fold. WoW has done immeasurable damage to the genre.
WoW did a lot more to advance the genre than it did to damage it. Since when do we blame a product or entity for being successful? WoW isn't to blame for their success and popularity, people are.
The loss of depth and freedom of earlier games was committed in the cost/benefit analysis worlds spawned by WoW. WoW allowed devs to say, "we don't need anything but quests," and the perfect storm ended up reinforcing this approach to game design. While financially rewarding in many cases, the WoW success brought a market-centric approach to an industry that should be more driven by art. People can only play what companies make, so game producers are not innocent.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
I think OP is right in one way. WoW does stand as an example of "this is an MMO", which is why so many (almost all) MMOs follow its formula. If WoW were to close up shop, it may release/cast doubt on that preconception, and developers may start to innovate for an evolving genre.
It is also an evolving genre. MOBAs, instanced pvp games, instanced pve games like warframe and destiny.
It is just that many do not like the direction the genre is evolving into.
The genre isn't evolving into MOBA. MOBA are called MOBA by people with an agenda. But MOBA are just MOBA to the vast majority.
Wow is a non-issue for nearly every single player I played Wow with in it's classic era. I was part of a guild centered around several friends, a huge chunk of some of their own families (made families ... 2 married and now have a kid who met in Wow) and a multi-game community that had a guild from vanilla through Wotlk. They disbanded due it continually becoming something different from when it started as.
The guild was one of the largest guilds at the time ... and NOBODY plays Wow from it anymore.
Whether or not Wow exists today is meaningless. Many of those same players would join a new socially friendly mmorpg again in a heartbeat. Wow does not offer the game play that attracted us to it therefore it has nothing to do with the choice of playing a new mmo.
The only thing keeping a large former guild like ours reforming is the fact that nearly no current mmo offers a reason for the guild to exist currently. Most are far too solo friendly. We want a game that offers group play throughout the entire leveling process and beyond. Most mmos today only offer tiny little bits of group play mixed into a vast majority of solo play one MUST endure.
I hate what Wow has become but I an not a Wow hater. Myself and many others would play Wow again if it became the game it once used to be. Do not kid yourselves people, the masses who play Wow today are a different breed from who first started playing the game. Those left or continue to return have simply stomached a completed different game.
I think OP is right in one way. WoW does stand as an example of "this is an MMO", which is why so many (almost all) MMOs follow its formula. If WoW were to close up shop, it may release/cast doubt on that preconception, and developers may start to innovate for an evolving genre.
You guys are just jealous of WoW's success.
Let's back track history. DAOC development cost "3 million", EQ initial pledge "3 million", UO around "6-8 million".
Do you really need AAA budget to make great mmorpg?
Also face it, those old games die, because of competition. And it is really hard to make similar games because there is too many competition.
The only thing Wow did is bring competition where those old mmorpg can't handle. If you really back track history, Wow and other newer mmorpg just steal too many players from those games, so they end up shutting down.
I think OP is right in one way. WoW does stand as an example of "this is an MMO", which is why so many (almost all) MMOs follow its formula. If WoW were to close up shop, it may release/cast doubt on that preconception, and developers may start to innovate for an evolving genre.
You guys are just jealous of WoW's success.
Let's back track history. DAOC development cost "3 million", EQ initial pledge "3 million", UO around "6-8 million".
Do you really need AAA budget to make great mmorpg?
Also face it, those old games die, because of competition. And it is really hard to make similar games because there is too many competition.
The only thing Wow did is bring competition where those old mmorpg can't handle. If you really back track history, Wow and other newer mmorpg just steal too many players from those games, so they end up shutting down.
Yes, I love this argument.
Financial Success > Any other consideration
If it makes more money than anything else it's holy.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
I think OP is right in one way. WoW does stand as an example of "this is an MMO", which is why so many (almost all) MMOs follow its formula. If WoW were to close up shop, it may release/cast doubt on that preconception, and developers may start to innovate for an evolving genre.
You guys are just jealous of WoW's success.
Let's back track history. DAOC development cost "3 million", EQ initial pledge "3 million", UO around "6-8 million".
Do you really need AAA budget to make great mmorpg?
Also face it, those old games die, because of competition. And it is really hard to make similar games because there is too many competition.
The only thing Wow did is bring competition where those old mmorpg can't handle. If you really back track history, Wow and other newer mmorpg just steal too many players from those games, so they end up shutting down.
Yes, I love this argument.
Financial Success > Any other consideration
If it makes more money than anything else it's holy.
As opposed to being a hipster and hating on something just because it's popular? As least his argument has truths in it.
In before someone comes in a say millions have no idea what a good game is. Only they know what a true good MMORGP is, those millions need to get off their lawn.
WoW is like monopoly, and just about every game that got produced that has borrowed systems from it are like variations of Monopoly. WoW's death knell isn't going to change anything because even if it did kick the bucket there are enough variants that one of the other versions will simply take it's seat. That or another game that is just as popular will do the same.
Can you specifically list those game features that wow invented that other games borrowed?
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
WoW obviously had an adverse affect on the MMORPG genre, but it wasn't intentional. Aside from that, I'm over the fact that things have changed and I harbor no ill will towards Blizzard or people who enjoy WoW.
Lets face it, if people are happy playing a game, that is what matters. No one said all the other studios had to follow suit. That was their decision. If you want someone to be upset with or insult, direct those feelings at the people who shamelessly followed WoW and failed to pull away their playerbase.
Lastly, I'm not convinced any of these tools in charge of those other MMO studios would have been capable of making a decent innovative MMO even if they weren't busy following Blizzard's blueprints. I just don't see much talent, gumption or vision from either the heads of mainstream studios or the lackies they hire to emulate other games.
If it makes more money than anything else it's holy.
I probably should say "you guys are just jealous of WoW's budget"
Let's face it, those golden age mmorpg are all very low budget games.
If they can't even survive as a low budget games, why do people expect higher budget to remake those games.
What I am really asking is why do you need big budget games to have fun? You never did.
People make comments like "I remember how much fun MUD is"... The thing is MUD is even better now. Yet people dont' play them. People's expectation are higher now. That's all.
Wow will never die. Because it hit the market at its peak and nothing that's come out since is worth leaving it for. The numbers prove this is true.
You may wanna double check those "numbers". WoW's subs have dropped by millions. It's gotten so bad, in fact, that Blizzard has announced that they will no longer publush their sub numbers (cuz people leaving encourages others to leave).
Here, you can see that they peaked at WotLK (5 years ago), but their numbers have been dropping ever since, and were at half of that when they finally stopped publishing the numbers.
WoW's been dead for years for most the people who played. 2 mill or so in the West is a far cry from it's hey day.
While true, the current smaller numbers are numbers most other MMORPGs would drool over.
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Comments
It is the "Free Candy" van of MMOs. It may draw in lots of kids, but that's not necessarily a good thing.
It is just that many do not like the direction the genre is evolving into.
So as others have said.... bovine fecalmatter
This have been a good conversation
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
If you take WoW and dumb it down even further, you get Black Desert.
~~ postlarval ~~
You guys are just jealous of WoW's success.
Let's back track history. DAOC development cost "3 million", EQ initial pledge "3 million", UO around "6-8 million".
Do you really need AAA budget to make great mmorpg?
Also face it, those old games die, because of competition. And it is really hard to make similar games because there is too many competition.
The only thing Wow did is bring competition where those old mmorpg can't handle. If you really back track history, Wow and other newer mmorpg just steal too many players from those games, so they end up shutting down.
Financial Success > Any other consideration
If it makes more money than anything else it's holy.
In before someone comes in a say millions have no idea what a good game is. Only they know what a true good MMORGP is, those millions need to get off their lawn.
Can you specifically list those game features that wow invented that other games borrowed?
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Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Lets face it, if people are happy playing a game, that is what matters. No one said all the other studios had to follow suit. That was their decision. If you want someone to be upset with or insult, direct those feelings at the people who shamelessly followed WoW and failed to pull away their playerbase.
Lastly, I'm not convinced any of these tools in charge of those other MMO studios would have been capable of making a decent innovative MMO even if they weren't busy following Blizzard's blueprints. I just don't see much talent, gumption or vision from either the heads of mainstream studios or the lackies they hire to emulate other games.
Let's face it, those golden age mmorpg are all very low budget games.
If they can't even survive as a low budget games, why do people expect higher budget to remake those games.
What I am really asking is why do you need big budget games to have fun? You never did.
People make comments like "I remember how much fun MUD is"... The thing is MUD is even better now. Yet people dont' play them. People's expectation are higher now. That's all.
Here, you can see that they peaked at WotLK (5 years ago), but their numbers have been dropping ever since, and were at half of that when they finally stopped publishing the numbers.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED