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DJ#16 - The Weight and Measure of a Lifetime
Maygus
Member UncommonPosts: 374
Visit the Chronicles of Elyria official site and the Official Wiki... an upcoming MMO from Soulbound Studios with real consequences to your actions.
Finite Resources, WYSIWYG looting to player created and maintained maps and a deep modular crafting system. So much more that hasn't been said, ask questions! Post your thoughts! Spread the word of COE!
If you haven't yet, register with my referrer code on the official website: B0E240
Finite Resources, WYSIWYG looting to player created and maintained maps and a deep modular crafting system. So much more that hasn't been said, ask questions! Post your thoughts! Spread the word of COE!
If you haven't yet, register with my referrer code on the official website: B0E240
Comments
Indeed, we wanted to answer all the burning questions people had about our business model, dying, Sparks of Life, how much play time you could expect from one life-time, and most important to the players, how much it costs to play.
All has been answered now.
Owner/CEO of Soulbound Studios
ChroniclesOfElyria.com
Form a supposition about (your business model) on the basis of incomplete information, is not an actual answer [I would have said conjecture, but you get all ragey when it comes to that word, regardless of it's correct use]
Yes you do have actual information in that journal, yet you still have to add in all this extra conjecture ideas formed on the basis of incomplete information. When you use words like; estimation, thinking, considering those words are not words used in concrete answers.
Here is a couple of many questions this dev journal brings up:
The first toll cap we're considering is limiting one toll per 2.5 hours (1 Elyrian day). This means that if you're out in the wilds and get killed by someone twice (or more) in a short period of time...
How does this affect the investigation skill(s)?
Why wont this encourage PKers?
This does the exact opposite of encouraging PKs. PKs, in general, play to ruin the game for others. By taking away added penalty for multiple kills it removes much of what PKs get enjoyment out of. Also, doing something over and over will leave more evidence for the investigation skills to find. This makes bringing someone to justice easier. The toll caps are for deaths and not for criminal punishments. So, kill someone 10 tens and they will get one death toll, and when youre caught you will get punished for 10 kills.
Thanks for your comments. In truth, I'm having a hard time understanding your first couple paragraphs. Care to re-phrase?
As far as using words like estimation, thinking, considering, etc... these are design journals, not press releases. They're there to keep a connection between us and the community so they know what our thoughts are on subjects.
Before posting actual numbers, there was a wide range of speculation as to how much a life would cost, how long you'd live, etc... These numbers are the values we're working with at this point. They give a clear idea of our intentions and provide a reasonably good idea of where we'll end up. However, there's a year of play-testing and development still ahead of us, so the numbers are subject to change some.
As to your last two questions, we have another design journal coming out in a while that'll go in-depth into the forensic skills, the judicial process, and punishments. And Deffcon_1 pretty much stated why this system makes it less attractive for PK'ers.
Thanks for keeping up on the latest CoE news!
Owner/CEO of Soulbound Studios
ChroniclesOfElyria.com
We only have what you give us. According to this latest developer/design journal
"The first toll cap we're considering is limiting one toll per 2.5 hours (1 Elyrian day). This means that if you're out in the wilds and get killed by someone twice (or more) in a short period of time, there's no additional Spirit Loss, even if you're forced to spirit walk more than once. We're doing this because we recognize that if you get put into a bad position, such as being camped by others, or getting trapped near an especially dangerous enemy, it could wrack up several deaths in a short period of time.
From a story standpoint however, those all kind of act like the same death. That is, "person walks into dungeon, faces evil bad guy, nearly dies, but recovers and defeats the evil being" is just as interesting as "person walks into dungeon, faces evil bad guy, nearly dies, but recovers, nearly dies again, but recovers, nearly dies again, but recovers...and finally defeats the badguy.""
Deffcon said "So, kill someone 10 times and they will get one death toll, and when you're caught you will get punished for 10 kills."Do you see the issue? If not I'll help you, you're last 2 developer/design journals are at odds with each other. DJ#14 Player Skill matters, DJ#15 Player Skill doesn't matter. In fact in DJ#15 Player Skill is a detriment to the player.
If you look at it from the perspective of many PvP titles the idea is you beat your openent. The player skill is simply you are the one that killed them, and that means you win and the person you killed lost. If you look at this toll cap from that perspective the winner, the more skilled player, is being punished far more than the looser, the unskilled player that lost the fight.
However, I do think that is the intention of this game. It is not a PvP game in the way others are. Is there PvP? Yes, a whole lot. Is it simply killing anyone you come across? No. I think there will be a lot of PvP that requires that player skill in combat that will not be punished in the same way. For instance if you have a Bounty to go and track someone down and fight them to incapacitate them and bring them to justice you are going to be rewarded for that not punished. If there is an evil being causing chaos I imagine there some system of them being deemed an outlaw so anyone champion to bring back their head will gain fame and glory, not jail time.
Does the system punish those that kill for the sake of killing, more that punishes those they kill? Yes. Does it discourage player skill if directed at more suited targets? I do not think so.
I also don't know what that means "this game is story based".A game's story should be the players own story what he simply makes of his adventures it should never be some designed path that leads to mathematical equations.
This is going to have players wondering every step of the way.Like i am still lost after reading all that ,i am a bit tired just woke up,maybe it is more clear when i read it later.
Correct me if i am wrong but it sounds like a distinct math equation for dying but with yet another outside influence being fame or somehow tied into story?It sort of sounds like to me that there is a multiplier depending on who gets killed.Which in turn sort of sounds like the more you play the more you pay.So that 8 bucks a month could be 50 bucks a month if you play a lot.
I also need to hear more about this "Story" idea,does this somewhere down the road lead players to conflict against each other forcing the death toll to rise?Also just as important what is a close estimation as to what we feel players will be doing in the world?If all players are doing is following a story path,similar to a linear questing game it is going to make for some very limited game play.
I almost get the feeling the whole design is centered too much around the death toll and monetary.
It is no secret,i simply do not like pvp at all in my ,mmorpg's ,i can accept it if it is some sideshow from regular game play but not if it is the main focus of the game.Is this an open ended game or a linear story/questing game?
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
However, for the second part it is not just playing that gains fame it depends what you are doing. Just keeping to yourself you might not make a name for yourself at all so you will not have any fame, working your way up the nobility... yep that is going to cost you more life when you die. I do suggest waiting until the next Developer Journal before worrying about the cost though as they have said: "Our next design journal aims to ease peoples' concerns about dying while nobility, and also talks about our new "earn-to-play" model.".
It is sort of the opposite. They have said there will be a 10 year long story in the world which will work like a 'choose you own adventure' with the players actively participating and based on their actions the story moving in different directions. That actually means that different servers might well end up with different story paths all together. It is also a constantly moving story so it is not something you can play through multiple times, or predict what might happen in the future. Along side that there are additional story elements tied to you as a character based on your date of birth, and then also local stories based on what is going on in the area again often triggered by player action.
It is that story idea that has me so interested in the game. There is more about it in this Developer Journal: https://chroniclesofelyria.com/blog/346-Design-Journal-2--Soul-Selection-Destiny-Achievements-and-Soul-Mates
Edit: Was tempted to leave the typo I found because it made me giggle, but the King will have to suffer rather than eat supper.
Well, I have a little issue with this. Sure, if it's something like PvE content it doesn't really affect the story that much. But if you take this to PvP, not so much, it all sounds nice from the side of the adventurer that entered the dungeon, but from the other side I can only see this becoming something the sort of "and then he pestered/annoyed me and tried to get me off guard for 2.5 hours straight without anything I could do about it because he kept on coming back from the dead." I mean, it's as much suspension of disbelief as it gets. I really hope you reconsider this timer, or at least reduce the length. Is it that bad for people to respawn in their home place? They'll already get randomly teleported a few yards around anyway. I understand you don't want teleports in the game, but I think this may bring way more trouble than the sort you're trying to avoid there.
If my hunch is correct then it sort of is an offbeat way of creating a pay to win scenario.Pay us more money and you get access to more skills is what i am thinking.Create a young useless player and it is like playing in a f2p game as a free player only still costing around $8/mnth because your not totally useless but as you get older/wiser,more skills your cost to play is higher.
In other words an older player is closer to that 30 bucks than a younger player but attains more skills sort of a p2win scenario although a subtle one.
I still have no clue on what players will actually be doing,as i see it this game sort of sounds like it might be "MYST" with added housing and pvp.Like how do all the skills we can learn tie into the game besides the housing aspect and pvp aspect?
You see my mind is think like i might play EQ2 for example,i have housing "check",i have skills "check" i can pvp "check" but what i actually do in game is linear questing "possibly story??check".In reality i like to build a player with skills and stuff but my focus is always on pve combat and grouping with other players to take down baddies,i don't really get into taking down a KIng or Queen "real player" because that is just pvp to me,not interested in that at all.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
@Grelf Spirit walking can take a half hour or more. So, its unlikely that if you kill someone they will just pop back up before you loot them and leave the area. If you camp their corpse its possible they come back and they may attack you, although its unlikely, then you could defend yourself. The second time you dont need to coup de grace them, instead you can just incapacitate them and move on. If you are hanging around an area in the wilds and they wont leave you alone, then it could be frustrating, but the toll cap doesnt prevent you from killing them in anyway. It just prevents them from getting a huge spirit penalty.
I'm also uneasy about the spark of life & spirit loss, the poorer you are in real life the more death in this game will hurt you. The reverse is also true, if you happen to have more money than sense then the death penalty will be at most a minor inconvenience to you. I'm not sure that counts as "pay to win" but it doesn't sound far off the mark. I'd honestly rather pay a standard monthly sub (even though I'm not a fan of them) and leave real world wealth out of it.
I think being a Monarch is a full role and if you are playing on alts you are not really giving your best to the large amount of community under you. I personally think the idea of being a Monarch is dull. However, I am not the sort of person who enjoys strategy/management games, and I think the player that enjoys them would love the role. The great thing is you do what you find fun. You are not going to accidentally end up in one of the most powerful positions in the game, so if it is not something that appeals to you don't go for it. If you prefer to PvP why not be one of their military leaders, or a champion in the arena, or any of the other things.
1. First, kings (and other Legendary characters) have massive power. In the case of kings, they can promote people to dukes, divide up the duchies, declare war on other kingdoms, set laws for the kingdom, set tax rates, set recruitment rates, and direct research for the duchies. They literally have control (indirectly) of 10's of thousands of players.
This is not a role that should be taken lightly. We want people who assume that role to take it seriously, and one of the best ways to do that is to add risk to the role. If you're the king and you don't listen to your people, they may overthrow the government and have you assassinated.
2. Chronicles of Elyria really is about the story. We'll get into that more in the spring, but each and every day the state of the world will be changing in the towns & villages, in the counties and duchies, and even the kingdoms. To make this happen, the players need to have real power to change the world. Otherwise, it's just us scripting a series of events. Naturally, those in influential positions, such as the kings and other legendary characters, have the most dramatic capability to change the story. But the corollary to that is the story must have the ability to cause dramatic effects on them. In exchange for being able to rally the people against the local Duke and tossing him out on his ear, the Duke needs the power to dispose of you if you suddenly become a threat. Then the game of cat & mouse ensues.
3. If being a king came with the previously described powers... why wouldn't everyone want to be king? Why wouldn't the game devolve into a constant battle to become one of the dozen or so kings in the world?
In general, there's three ways to allow people to become king, but make it so that not everyone is the king:
1. Make it so boring that only 12 people out of 100,000 are willing to do the job
2. Make it impossible for more than 12 people in the world to hold it at one time, and institute a time limit or other artificial system so that the king rotates automatically every month or so
3. Add risk to being a king, so only the dozen or so bravest souls in the world are daring enough to do it
We opted for #3. Because it provides the best of #1 and #2. It creates a self-imposed limit. By adding risk, it lets the players decide who's willing to do it and who isn't. And it lets the players decide how long someone remains king.
Hmm, I suppose that is one way to look at it. But that sounds a lot like viewing a promotion at work that comes with more risk/responsibilities as a punishment for success.
I like to think of it as the cost of success. Since you know in advance what the increased risk/responsibilities are, it's really up to the players to decide if they want to take on those risk. You'd definitely have to think carefully about it. Which is by design. You can't declare war on another kingdom without setting foot on the battlefield yourself. So you have to really want that other land if it's worth it to you to risk your life. This is precisely the point of the "Earn to play" model we'll be talking about in our next design journal. It's about as far from "Pay to Win" as you can get. No matter how much money you have, no matter how many Sparks of Life you buy, it won't save your character's life. It also won't increase your skill as a player. And since the game is primarily skill based, what really dictates whether you "win" or not, is entirely intrinsic to the player. That said, there is a concern that people with more wealth will be willing to take more risks. That, again, is the topic of our next DJ. That's not an uncommon feeling. Many people would rather just pay money and not have to think about the choices they make in-game, or the fact that their choices have real consequences. This isn't the game for those people. Some people like Pepsi, some people like Coke. This is a game for people who want consequences, accept the risks, and want to demonstrate their heroism anyways.
Owner/CEO of Soulbound Studios
ChroniclesOfElyria.com
I don't feel coe will be pay to win based on what I've read so far, but it does make me feel uneasy. I don't know, I think coe is a hard sell as it is without adding an experimental business model on top of everything else.
It may be hard to sell to some, but not to others. Also, the design of the game and the business model are closely connected. While it's technically possible to separate them, it makes less sense.
Chronicles of Elyria is a game where your soul lives multiple lives as different characters, each participating and taking a different role in a constantly evolving story-line. As a result, each life becomes a discrete unit of play, and paying for each life makes as much sense as buying the next book in a series.
If each life you live is a story in Elyria, then a subscription model would be like paying for a monthly Library card. You pay whether or not you participate in the story, and you value the books in your possession less, as none of them are *your* books. They're loaners.
A micropayment system would be like getting 80% of each chapter of book - maybe even the most relevant part, but then charging someone extra for the other 10 pages. If those 10 pages aren't necessary - don't sell them. And if they are necessary, give them to everyone.
In the end, we really feel like we've chosen the best business model for our game and it's design. But, as we've said before, it won't appeal to everyone.
Owner/CEO of Soulbound Studios
ChroniclesOfElyria.com
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Plus CoE is based on days not months. You have to do the maths down to the days.
Owner/CEO of Soulbound Studios
ChroniclesOfElyria.com