Point behind pvp?

Vucar

I'm interested in this game, but I'm not as well-read on it as others. This is a chance for the knowledgeable core BDO community to give reading passers-by like me a content-filled answer to the question of what is the point of pvp?

Are there guild territories to be fought over? Anything to be looted? A penalty to death in pvp or a reward for killing guild enemies? Is it all open world pvp, any one any time any place?

What is the catalyst that drives pvp?

bcbully

Vucar said:

I'm interested in this game, but I'm not as well-read on it as others. This is a chance for the knowledgeable core BDO community to give reading passers-by like me a content-filled answer to the question of what is the point of pvp?

Are there guild territories to be fought over? Anything to be looted? A penalty to death in pvp or a reward for killing guild enemies? Is it all open world pvp, any one any time any place?

What is the catalyst that drives pvp?

Yes there are territories to be fought over by guilds. Guilds can claim resource areas and even regions. They are able to tax those areas. 

I just read today that they will be adding a system where the loser drops carried silver. In BDO things are a little different. Carrying silver has a weight to it. People put silver in town banks. Those town banks are not connected. What this means is that people transport silver from one town to the next.

There is a small XP loss on death as well.

PvP everywhere, FFA except towns which are safe zones. Personally I'm not to sure about the town safe zone thing because towns are so big, but eeh it might not be to big of a deal. 

I think the above can answer your last question. Those thing plus you just might not like someone 

edit- there is also a bounty system that is being added as well. It looks like these things will be a go for the NA/EU release. 

stayontarget

Here's a good starting point:  http://www.blackdeserttome.com/guides/viewtext?id=6

Copperfield

currently bdo has the worst system in place regarding pvp

random open world has no meaning.. besides you lose alot of karma which makes you inable to do things in towns/cities.

alot of koreans gamers lost their intrest in bdo because of this.. but like above poster already said.. they are planning to fix the pvp issues

tbh i dont see bdo as  a pvp game tho.. 

if you want pvp you should sign up for an alpha key @ ;https://riseofagon.com/

Vucar

stayontarget said:

Here's a good starting point:  http://www.blackdeserttome.com/guides/viewtext?id=6

That link says some items drop on death, but other posts claim otherwise?

Allein

Fun.

There's a little bit of everything but BDO isn't a X game only.

They have enough variety to keep many folks entertained, but those searching for a very specific feature or design most likely won't find it.

They seem to be addressing some of the concerns of those that dislike random ganking and what not, hopefully they make GvG and larger scale PVP have more reward/purpose beyond killing just to win. But looking at the millions upon millions that love MOBA, FPS, RTS, CCG, Arena type PVP, winning can be enough for many.

LacedOpium

Allein said:

... But looking at the millions upon millions that love MOBA, FPS, RTS, CCG, Arena type PVP, winning can be enough for many.

Then that's exactly where the millions upon millions should stay.  Given the amount of successful PvP centric MMORPGs on the market, this PvP thing is obviously not translating over well to MMORPGs.  Alas, the powers of greed will never stop trying to make it work in their everlasting effort to tap that ever elusive PvP player base.

Allein

LacedOpium said:

Allein said:

... But looking at the millions upon millions that love MOBA, FPS, RTS, CCG, Arena type PVP, winning can be enough for many.

Then that's exactly where the millions upon millions should stay.  Given the amount of successful PvP centric MMORPGs on the market, this PvP thing is obviously not translating over well to MMORPGs.  Alas, the powers of greed will never stop trying to make it work in their everlasting effort to tap that ever elusive PvP player base.

"Arena" PVP was meant to represent MMOs. Almost all popular mmos have arenas/battlegrounds or some form of small to large scale PVP. Without them I doubt the PVE end would hold most games up.

WoW, ESO, GW2, ESO, AA, WS, etc.

Not that MMORPGs exactly compete with MOBAs and other genres in total populations, but PVP has a place in them for sure.

PVP "centric" mmos are few and never really made a huge splash but looking how almost all upcoming games are putting more focus into PVP and player "content" it might be the time as other genres have made it okay to lose to another player without uninstalling afterwards. We'll see though.

BDO is a pretty decent blend making both fun, but it like all games has flaws.

PVE games are actually a minority and probably won't see many more made in the upcoming years. 

MMO players as a whole might not like mindless ganking or whatever, but they sure seem to enjoy "fair" PVP with rules in place. BDO is trying to do this it seems.

LacedOpium

Allein said:

LacedOpium said:

Allein said:

... But looking at the millions upon millions that love MOBA, FPS, RTS, CCG, Arena type PVP, winning can be enough for many.

Then that's exactly where the millions upon millions should stay.  Given the amount of successful PvP centric MMORPGs on the market, this PvP thing is obviously not translating over well to MMORPGs.  Alas, the powers of greed will never stop trying to make it work in their everlasting effort to tap that ever elusive PvP player base.

"Arena" PVP was meant to represent MMOs. Almost all popular mmos have arenas/battlegrounds or some form of small to large scale PVP. Without them I doubt the PVE end would hold most games up.

WoW, ESO, GW2, ESO, AA, WS, etc.

Not that MMORPGs exactly compete with MOBAs and other genres in total populations, but PVP has a place in them for sure.

PVP "centric" mmos are few and never really made a huge splash but looking how almost all upcoming games are putting more focus into PVP and player "content" it might be the time as other genres have made it okay to lose to another player without uninstalling afterwards. We'll see though.

BDO is a pretty decent blend making both fun, but it like all games has flaws.

PVE games are actually a minority and probably won't see many more made in the upcoming years. 

MMO players as a whole might not like mindless ganking or whatever, but they sure seem to enjoy "fair" PVP with rules in place. BDO is trying to do this it seems.

Has it ever occurred to you that one of the primary reasons MMORPGs stopped evolving in the first place is because developers stopped focusing on advancing the PvE MMORPG genre and instead began to bastardize the MMORPG by incorporating these other popular genre PvP game play features into them in an effort to tap into that player base and maximizing their bottom line profits?

Couldn't a good argument be made that had the effort and resources expended trying to make PvE and PvP co-exist in an MMORPG (because we all know that like vinegar and water they do not) would have been better directed toward advancing an MMORPGs PvE AI, and ovearall MMORPG game play, that the MMORPG genre would be in a much better place today?

Instead what we have is this weird jack-of-all trades mixing-of-the genres that only succeeds in bringing dissention and argument into every MMORPG topic resulting in ultimate satisfaction to no one.  

Just something to think about. 

bcbully

LacedOpium said:

Allein said:

LacedOpium said:

Allein said:

... But looking at the millions upon millions that love MOBA, FPS, RTS, CCG, Arena type PVP, winning can be enough for many.

Then that's exactly where the millions upon millions should stay.  Given the amount of successful PvP centric MMORPGs on the market, this PvP thing is obviously not translating over well to MMORPGs.  Alas, the powers of greed will never stop trying to make it work in their everlasting effort to tap that ever elusive PvP player base.

"Arena" PVP was meant to represent MMOs. Almost all popular mmos have arenas/battlegrounds or some form of small to large scale PVP. Without them I doubt the PVE end would hold most games up.

WoW, ESO, GW2, ESO, AA, WS, etc.

Not that MMORPGs exactly compete with MOBAs and other genres in total populations, but PVP has a place in them for sure.

PVP "centric" mmos are few and never really made a huge splash but looking how almost all upcoming games are putting more focus into PVP and player "content" it might be the time as other genres have made it okay to lose to another player without uninstalling afterwards. We'll see though.

BDO is a pretty decent blend making both fun, but it like all games has flaws.

PVE games are actually a minority and probably won't see many more made in the upcoming years. 

MMO players as a whole might not like mindless ganking or whatever, but they sure seem to enjoy "fair" PVP with rules in place. BDO is trying to do this it seems.

Has it ever occurred to you that one of the primary reasons MMORPGs stopped evolving in the first place is because developers stopped focusing on advancing the PvE MMORPG genre and instead began to bastardize the MMORPG by incorporating these other popular genre PvP game play features into them in an effort to tap into that player base and maximizing their bottom line profits?

Couldn't a good argument be made that had the effort and resources expended trying to make PvE and PvP co-exist in an MMORPG (because we all know that like vinegar and water they do not) would have been better directed toward advancing an MMORPGs PvE AI, and ovearall MMORPG game play, that the MMORPG genre would be in a much better place today?

Instead what we have is this weird jack-of-all trades mixing-of-the genres that only succeeds in bringing dissention and argument into every MMORPG topic and bringing ultimate satisfaction to no one.  

Just something to think about. 

How many ways can you not stand in red? 

LacedOpium

bcbully said:

LacedOpium said:

Allein said:

LacedOpium said:

Allein said:

... But looking at the millions upon millions that love MOBA, FPS, RTS, CCG, Arena type PVP, winning can be enough for many.

Then that's exactly where the millions upon millions should stay.  Given the amount of successful PvP centric MMORPGs on the market, this PvP thing is obviously not translating over well to MMORPGs.  Alas, the powers of greed will never stop trying to make it work in their everlasting effort to tap that ever elusive PvP player base.

"Arena" PVP was meant to represent MMOs. Almost all popular mmos have arenas/battlegrounds or some form of small to large scale PVP. Without them I doubt the PVE end would hold most games up.

WoW, ESO, GW2, ESO, AA, WS, etc.

Not that MMORPGs exactly compete with MOBAs and other genres in total populations, but PVP has a place in them for sure.

PVP "centric" mmos are few and never really made a huge splash but looking how almost all upcoming games are putting more focus into PVP and player "content" it might be the time as other genres have made it okay to lose to another player without uninstalling afterwards. We'll see though.

BDO is a pretty decent blend making both fun, but it like all games has flaws.

PVE games are actually a minority and probably won't see many more made in the upcoming years. 

MMO players as a whole might not like mindless ganking or whatever, but they sure seem to enjoy "fair" PVP with rules in place. BDO is trying to do this it seems.

Has it ever occurred to you that one of the primary reasons MMORPGs stopped evolving in the first place is because developers stopped focusing on advancing the PvE MMORPG genre and instead began to bastardize the MMORPG by incorporating these other popular genre PvP game play features into them in an effort to tap into that player base and maximizing their bottom line profits?

Couldn't a good argument be made that had the effort and resources expended trying to make PvE and PvP co-exist in an MMORPG (because we all know that like vinegar and water they do not) would have been better directed toward advancing an MMORPGs PvE AI, and ovearall MMORPG game play, that the MMORPG genre would be in a much better place today?

Instead what we have is this weird jack-of-all trades mixing-of-the genres that only succeeds in bringing dissention and argument into every MMORPG topic and bringing ultimate satisfaction to no one.  

Just something to think about. 

How many ways can you not stand in red? 

We will never know, will we?

Allein

LacedOpium said:

Has it ever occurred to you that one of the primary reasons MMORPGs stopped evolving in the first place is because developers stopped focusing on advancing the PvE MMORPG genre and instead began to bastardize the MMORPG by incorporating these other popular genre PvP game play features into them in an effort to tap into that player base and maximizing their bottom line profits?

Couldn't a good argument be made that had the effort and resources expended trying to make PvE and PvP co-exist in an MMORPG (because we all know that like vinegar and water they do not) would have been better directed toward advancing an MMORPGs PvE AI, and ovearall MMORPG game play, that the MMORPG genre would be in a much better place today?

Instead what we have is this weird jack-of-all trades mixing-of-the genres that all it does is bring dissention and argument into every MMORPG topic and bringing ultimate satisfaction to no one.  

Just something to think about. 

Nope.

PVP be it 3v3 arenas, RVR, or whatever else doesn't take much thought from my technical view. Not sure a tone of resources go or went into them.

Making better AI (EQN what happened) is something much more and why we most likely haven't seen it really happen to a good level in any genre.

I started online gaming with MUDs in the mid 90s and we had PVP. UO, EQ, AC, SWG, DAoC, etc all had PVP optional or was a major aspect of play. It was never "added" to some amazing PVE design to watch it crumble.

Can't speak for all, but WoW's PVP  possibilities were what drew many coming from RTS. OW was quite fun until instancing took over.

Players will always provide more challenge/content then AI or devs can produce until we reach Skynet levels.

People a raid boss might be hard at the start but eventually is trivialized where PVP never can unless you are in the top 1%.

Many things could of went differently, but playing what if doesn't change the past or move us forward. We have what we have.

MMOs have kept evolving, simply not how some wanted/imagined. We evolved as well. The gamer playing D&D was not the same as MUDs nor the same as UO/EQ or WoW or Clash of Clans. There is overlap, but as the internet and games/genres have evolved or been created, we have changed our likes/dislikes and expectations.

Everything is subjective and what is good/bad is up to each of us to decided personally.

Then again I enjoy the challenge of PVP and the social complexities that come with it that swinging at a Orc will never equal.

Again, there is a reason games like League have 60 million or whatever crazy number of players. People like to compete with others. AI only goes so far. Even if a single player or more PVE focus game does well, there is almost always an end point where you can "beat" the game. You can not beat a PVP game as a whole, only moments.

We all have different experiences. That is what I think about.

time007

well i agree this game does a lot of things well and it has one more awesome thing going for it:  It is the best looking thing out on the market, hands down.  So I've thrown my hat in the ring and started playing the game.  

If it has awesome organized large scale pvp at release, great.  If not, I dont mind waiting.  This game is B2P so you dont have to pay regularly.  

LacedOpium

Allein said:

LacedOpium said:

Has it ever occurred to you that one of the primary reasons MMORPGs stopped evolving in the first place is because developers stopped focusing on advancing the PvE MMORPG genre and instead began to bastardize the MMORPG by incorporating these other popular genre PvP game play features into them in an effort to tap into that player base and maximizing their bottom line profits?

Couldn't a good argument be made that had the effort and resources expended trying to make PvE and PvP co-exist in an MMORPG (because we all know that like vinegar and water they do not) would have been better directed toward advancing an MMORPGs PvE AI, and ovearall MMORPG game play, that the MMORPG genre would be in a much better place today?

Instead what we have is this weird jack-of-all trades mixing-of-the genres that all it does is bring dissention and argument into every MMORPG topic and bringing ultimate satisfaction to no one.  

Just something to think about. 

Nope.

PVP be it 3v3 arenas, RVR, or whatever else doesn't take much thought from my technical view. Not sure a tone of resources go or went into them.

Making better AI (EQN what happened) is something much more and why we most likely haven't seen it really happen to a good level in any genre.

I started online gaming with MUDs in the mid 90s and we had PVP. UO, EQ, AC, SWG, DAoC, etc all had PVP optional or was a major aspect of play. It was never "added" to some amazing PVE design to watch it crumble.

Can't speak for all, but WoW's PVP  possibilities were what drew many coming from RTS. OW was quite fun until instancing took over.

Players will always provide more challenge/content then AI or devs can produce until we reach Skynet levels.

People a raid boss might be hard at the start but eventually is trivialized where PVP never can unless you are in the top 1%.

Many things could of went differently, but playing what if doesn't change the past or move us forward. We have what we have.

MMOs have kept evolving, simply not how some wanted/imagined. We evolved as well. The gamer playing D&D was not the same as MUDs nor the same as UO/EQ or WoW or Clash of Clans. There is overlap, but as the internet and games/genres have evolved or been created, we have changed our likes/dislikes and expectations.

Everything is subjective and what is good/bad is up to each of us to decided personally.

Then again I enjoy the challenge of PVP and the social complexities that come with it that swinging at a Orc will never equal.

Again, there is a reason games like League have 60 million or whatever crazy number of players. People like to compete with others. AI only goes so far. Even if a single player or more PVE focus game does well, there is almost always an end point where you can "beat" the game. You can not beat a PVP game as a whole, only moments.

We all have different experiences. That is what I think about.

I think you are underestimating the impact that the implementation of PvP has on the development of an MMORPG.  Although there is obviously a significant resource and money reallotment, there is much more to it than just that.  Btw, no one is denying the popularity of PvP centric game play.  In fact, it is exactly that popularity that has promoted the bastardization of the MMORPG.  This does not mean, however, that it is a good mix because it isn't.  One need only to browse through game forums and see all of the negative PvE vs PvP threads to come to this obvious conclusion.  

Allein

LacedOpium said:

I think you are underestimating the impact that the implementation of PvP has on the development of an MMORPG.  Although there is obviously a significant resource and money reallotment, there is much more to it than just that.  Btw, no one is denying the popularity of PvP centric game play.  In fact, it is exactly that popularity that has promoted the bastardization of the MMORPG.  This does not mean, however, that it is a good mix because it isn't.  One need only to browse through game forums and see all of the negative PvE vs PvP threads to come to this obvious conclusion.  

If we looked at forums we could come to the conclusion that all games are terrible and no one plays them, yet that isn't reality. Vast majority of gamers actually are in them, not typing away.

I don't know much about AI, but I do know there are folks that specialize in it and it is it's own piece of the pie. Someone doing art or combat doesn't work on AI, I assume.

Throwing money at the AI department to advance it might of made it better, but I don't know. There is tons of money thrown at it in robotics and other types of AI beyond hack n slash mmos. Yet skynet hasn't taken over yet.

Curious what a non-bastardized MMORPG looks like? Which would those be or have been? Your ideal game simply might not be what the masses want.

BDO while having terrible AI actually has a ton of non-PVP related content or even non-combat content features compared to the typical mmo. I assume AA shares in such things and upcoming games like Chronicles of Elyria look to be heading in similar directions.

There is a lot more to mmos than PVE vs PVP.

PVE vs PVP discussions are pointless and go no where. Some like it, some don't. Companies have to make the decision to cater to one or both. For the most part going one or the other hasn't ended well compared to the mixture. WoW (mix) > EQ (PVE) > Darkfall (PVP).

Different types of players can try to co-exist or not. Those that can will have more games and fun times. Those with a strict list won't find what they are looking for.

No game will ever be perfect for everyone, but it takes all types to keep one going from the looks of things.

Benjola

Looking at the last two decades of MMORPGs, nope, PVP and MMORPG don't mix well at all.
When it's contained in Arenas or specialized servers like in EQ then yes, it works, somewhat.
Forced non-consensual open world PVP while sounding exciting in theory it always seems to polarize and divide the player base to 'Griefers' and 'Carebears'.
Sense of fairness and justice is strong in gamers I guess, who knew heh.

I thought I was going to love open world PVP with no rewards or consequences in Age of Conan (it launched as a full blown anarchy basically) and at first I did but soon I got fedup with it.
Whenever you attacked someone the PVP turned into a massive chat drama and I was wasting more time answering angry tells then actually fighting.

Later in korean faction based PVP MMOs like Aion I was happy to see that opposing faction can't send you hate tells so that was good, but there was still massive drama on forums.

Then there is the zerg aspect in these games, lot of moaning about that too.
And how about the constant class balance bitching?

It just doesn't seem to work, sooner or later you will get fedup with all the crying,moaning and nerf calls and it stops being fun.

Allein

Benjola said:

Looking at the last two decades of MMORPGs, nope, PVP and MMORPG don't mix well at all.
When it's contained in Arenas or specialized servers like in EQ then yes, it works, somewhat.
Forced non-consensual open world PVP while sounding exciting in theory it always seems to polarize and divide the player base to 'Griefers' and 'Carebears'.
Sense of fairness and justice is strong in gamers I guess, who knew heh.

I thought I was going to love open world PVP with no rewards or consequences in Age of Conan (it launched as a full blown anarchy basically) and at first I did but soon I got fedup with it.
Whenever you attacked someone the PVP turned into a massive chat drama and I was wasting more time answering angry tells then actually fighting.

Later in korean faction based PVP MMOs like Aion I was happy to see that opposing faction can't send you hate tells so that was good, but there was still massive drama on forums.

Then there is the zerg aspect in these games, lot of moaning about that too.
And how about the constant class balance bitching?

It just doesn't seem to work, sooner or later you will get fedup with all the crying,moaning and nerf calls and it stops being fun.

There is no such thing as "forced" PVP. If someone hops into a game willingly with whatever rules, they are accepting those as it. No gun to the head situation.

I agree that OW FFA no rules attached PVP doesn't really work for the most part, regardless of how many PVP diehards say it will for them.

But PVP comes in many shapes and sizes and most def works in MMOs when devs put thought into the design and go after particular groups.

BDO appears to be aimed at particular types as it isn't 100% FFA madness, they is quite a lot of structure and from what they just announced about Karma/Bounties, they are trying to add even more.

Those that can't handle dying ever to a player might not like it, but is what it is. As most game appear to be going in a more player conflict direction, going to be hard to completely avoid it without missing out on a lot of games.

Probably have plenty of moaning and fighting out side of game about the game, but if people care enough to do so, to me that is a good sign. When someone can just go "meh" and walk away without a care, must not of been that great.

I give them credit for at least attempting to hear different views and find some middle ground. Might not reach the perfect spot, but you never know how close they'll come.

BDO isn't be sold as the best PVE themepark ever, those approaching it with a massive hate/fear of PVP are doing it poorly.

Aelious

Benjola said:

Looking at the last two decades of MMORPGs, nope, PVP and MMORPG don't mix well at all.
When it's contained in Arenas or specialized servers like in EQ then yes, it works, somewhat.
Forced non-consensual open world PVP while sounding exciting in theory it always seems to polarize and divide the player base to 'Griefers' and 'Carebears'.
Sense of fairness and justice is strong in gamers I guess, who knew heh.

I thought I was going to love open world PVP with no rewards or consequences in Age of Conan (it launched as a full blown anarchy basically) and at first I did but soon I got fedup with it.
Whenever you attacked someone the PVP turned into a massive chat drama and I was wasting more time answering angry tells then actually fighting.

Later in korean faction based PVP MMOs like Aion I was happy to see that opposing faction can't send you hate tells so that was good, but there was still massive drama on forums.

Then there is the zerg aspect in these games, lot of moaning about that too.
And how about the constant class balance bitching?

It just doesn't seem to work, sooner or later you will get fedup with all the crying,moaning and nerf calls and it stops being fun.

This is where I ended up. I love PvP but in games where, a. It's strictly skill based and b. You're there to just PvP, not attempting to quest, grind mobs/resources, etc. 90-95% of the player base is great in these titles but it's those 5-10% that show why PvP and MMORPGs will never make the main stage: human behavior when online.

Right now in the MMO-sphere there is quite a few OWPvP titles in the mix and there just isn't enough people to house all of them. There will be a reckoning and those which offer some sort of PvE will do better than the others. Right now BDO is chasing the "PvP/PvE coop unicorn", thinking that if there are enough justice/karma systems in place those who just want to PvE will play with those who want to PvPvE or just PvP. It's a dream IMO but I hope it works for them. They will be successful to some degree I'm sure.\

Edit: I am well aware that EvE has large numbers and they are the anomaly, similar to WoW. Plus they, for now, have a unique product.

holdenhamlet

I think PVP is important in MMORPGs.  PVP is the purest form of player interaction and the point of these games being online is to interact with other people playing it.

Plus it's nice because it's "free content"- the devs don't make it, the players do.  That's especially important in this game because apparently there is no traditional pve endgame.  Without PVP there might not be much to do at endgame at all.

So far the pvp looks great and I'm looking forward to how they implement a bounty hunter system.  Really looking forward to seiges.

YashaX

LacedOpium said:

Allein said:

LacedOpium said:

Allein said:

... But looking at the millions upon millions that love MOBA, FPS, RTS, CCG, Arena type PVP, winning can be enough for many.

Then that's exactly where the millions upon millions should stay.  Given the amount of successful PvP centric MMORPGs on the market, this PvP thing is obviously not translating over well to MMORPGs.  Alas, the powers of greed will never stop trying to make it work in their everlasting effort to tap that ever elusive PvP player base.

"Arena" PVP was meant to represent MMOs. Almost all popular mmos have arenas/battlegrounds or some form of small to large scale PVP. Without them I doubt the PVE end would hold most games up.

WoW, ESO, GW2, ESO, AA, WS, etc.

Not that MMORPGs exactly compete with MOBAs and other genres in total populations, but PVP has a place in them for sure.

PVP "centric" mmos are few and never really made a huge splash but looking how almost all upcoming games are putting more focus into PVP and player "content" it might be the time as other genres have made it okay to lose to another player without uninstalling afterwards. We'll see though.

BDO is a pretty decent blend making both fun, but it like all games has flaws.

PVE games are actually a minority and probably won't see many more made in the upcoming years. 

MMO players as a whole might not like mindless ganking or whatever, but they sure seem to enjoy "fair" PVP with rules in place. BDO is trying to do this it seems.

Has it ever occurred to you that one of the primary reasons MMORPGs stopped evolving in the first place is because developers stopped focusing on advancing the PvE MMORPG genre and instead began to bastardize the MMORPG by incorporating these other popular genre PvP game play features into them in an effort to tap into that player base and maximizing their bottom line profits?

Couldn't a good argument be made that had the effort and resources expended trying to make PvE and PvP co-exist in an MMORPG (because we all know that like vinegar and water they do not) would have been better directed toward advancing an MMORPGs PvE AI, and ovearall MMORPG game play, that the MMORPG genre would be in a much better place today?

Instead what we have is this weird jack-of-all trades mixing-of-the genres that only succeeds in bringing dissention and argument into every MMORPG topic resulting in ultimate satisfaction to no one.  

Just something to think about. 

There are too many false assertions in your post:

1) MMORPGs have stopped evolving: in fact they have been and are evolving, and imo getting better.

2) The genre became bastardized by mixing pve and other genres: pretty sure many mmos have had pvp in them from way back.

3) Developers stopped focusing on developing pve genre: There have been major changes in terms of pve in many games

4) We all know that pvp and pve can't coexist in an mmo: "we all know"?????

5) Pvp in mmos only serves to bring dissention and argument in the community: Sure that is the only thing pvp does.

 

I think the mmo genre past and present and its development are in a brighter spot than you seem to believe. I do hope AI improves though, that would be big. 

I doubt pvp is the reason why some pve systems are still lackluster compared to single player games, but I would play a pve only mmo if it really picked up the pace on AI and so on, I am thinking Dragons Dogma Online might fit the bill if it ever gets to the West.

observer

It's open world pvp, and 1 vs. 1 dueling.  No instanced battlegrounds or arenas.  I haven't been following BDO as much, but that was the last info i had on the pvp.

Some people like open world pvp, but i prefer instanced battlegrounds and arenas instead, because they are more strategic with better coordination.  It's less zergy and less chaotic than open world.

observer

LacedOpium said:

Allein said:

LacedOpium said:

Allein said:

... But looking at the millions upon millions that love MOBA, FPS, RTS, CCG, Arena type PVP, winning can be enough for many.

Then that's exactly where the millions upon millions should stay.  Given the amount of successful PvP centric MMORPGs on the market, this PvP thing is obviously not translating over well to MMORPGs.  Alas, the powers of greed will never stop trying to make it work in their everlasting effort to tap that ever elusive PvP player base.

"Arena" PVP was meant to represent MMOs. Almost all popular mmos have arenas/battlegrounds or some form of small to large scale PVP. Without them I doubt the PVE end would hold most games up.

WoW, ESO, GW2, ESO, AA, WS, etc.

Not that MMORPGs exactly compete with MOBAs and other genres in total populations, but PVP has a place in them for sure.

PVP "centric" mmos are few and never really made a huge splash but looking how almost all upcoming games are putting more focus into PVP and player "content" it might be the time as other genres have made it okay to lose to another player without uninstalling afterwards. We'll see though.

BDO is a pretty decent blend making both fun, but it like all games has flaws.

PVE games are actually a minority and probably won't see many more made in the upcoming years. 

MMO players as a whole might not like mindless ganking or whatever, but they sure seem to enjoy "fair" PVP with rules in place. BDO is trying to do this it seems.

Has it ever occurred to you that one of the primary reasons MMORPGs stopped evolving in the first place is because developers stopped focusing on advancing the PvE MMORPG genre and instead began to bastardize the MMORPG by incorporating these other popular genre PvP game play features into them in an effort to tap into that player base and maximizing their bottom line profits?

Couldn't a good argument be made that had the effort and resources expended trying to make PvE and PvP co-exist in an MMORPG (because we all know that like vinegar and water they do not) would have been better directed toward advancing an MMORPGs PvE AI, and ovearall MMORPG game play, that the MMORPG genre would be in a much better place today?

Instead what we have is this weird jack-of-all trades mixing-of-the genres that only succeeds in bringing dissention and argument into every MMORPG topic resulting in ultimate satisfaction to no one.  

Just something to think about. 

The problem is, PVE content takes longer to create.  They have to code scripts, create text for quests, create new models, architecture, animations, textures, etc.

PvP is easier to create, because all you need to do is create new terrain and architecture and a UI for the game mode.  A quest hub, dungeon, or raid, takes more time.

Kyleran

DMKano said:

The main point behind PvP in any game is - fun.

if you don't find it fun, it's not for you.

I don't find PVP "fun", rather it is a necessary evil when the lawless try to take what is mine.

Difference between living in virtual worlds and playing games.

Inhabiting EVE since 2006

As for BDO, sounds like game might be evolving to something I would enjoy so will keep my eye on it.

Sovrath

Copperfield said:

currently bdo has the worst system in place regarding pvp

random open world has no meaning.. besides you lose alot of karma which makes you inable to do things in towns/cities.

alot of koreans gamers lost their intrest in bdo because of this.. but like above poster already said.. they are planning to fix the pvp issues

tbh i dont see bdo as  a pvp game tho.. 

if you want pvp you should sign up for an alpha key @ ;https://riseofagon.com/

I think that's to dissuade "murder".

I'm all for a system that punishes players just killing for laughs. Note, this doesn't mean I'm against ffa pvp.

I'm all for a player killing whomever they want but they need to have some point of "do I do this or not".

As long as they implement their "bandit city" (so to speak) which is sort of like Gludio in Lineage 2, then I don't see the issue.

fs23otm

BDO is a pvp-end game. 

Node Wars, Sieges, guild vs guild... all end game pvp goals. FFA pvp does exist, yet it is highly managed.

Basic flagging pvp with karma... neg karma means your a pk, good karma means your safe. You gain more karma by PVE monster grind, or in development, killing other neg karma players that have a bounty. 

Positive Karma players only lose 1% xp on death... Neg Karma players lose 1 or 2 % depending on how neg, but also gems. They removed item drop and enchant breaking. 

The NA/EU game is really well localized. With the changes they are making, it will be the game of the year.