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Racial Equality in Video Games
klash2def
Member EpicPosts: 1,949
This isn't the first time, I've faced this issue, so instead of getting into a race debate any longer with ignorant and insensitive people, I prefer to share this here all in longform. The point I was trying to make was more about minorities being represented far less than Caucasian Male protagonists in video games. This is the reason I feel this way, Hopefully you understand after this and if not then good luck to you.
I can only speak from my experience. This is not meant to incite, I'd rather show you a honest point of view.
I can only speak from my experience. This is not meant to incite, I'd rather show you a honest point of view.
I am of african descent otherwise known as BLACK in western culture. I'm 29 yrs old. The faces that look like mine that I've encountered in video games have been, at best, too inconsequential to be memorable and offensively tone-deaf at worst. What about Barret from Final Fantasy VII or Sazh from Final Fantasy XIII, you might ask? Or Cole Train from the Gears of War games? Wait, there's Sheva from Resident Evil 5, right? No, no and no. Too many elements of caricature bullshit in each, I'd say, and they're all sidekicks. Their stories aren't the focus of the adventure players go on.
But, hey, it's a given that video games tend to present exaggerated characters. Marcus Fenix isn't like any white guy I've ever met, after all. But he doesn't have to be. For every Marcus Fenix-type grunt hero, you can also get a witty Nathan Drake, a charming Ezio or a regretful John Marston. Enough white characters exist in video games for a variability of approach. That's simply not true of black characters.
In creating Half-Life 2's Alyx Vance, Valve gave players a woman who was feisty and fragile at the same time. Alyx ranks amongst the best black game characters of all time, but she's another sidekick. C.J. from Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas comes closest to this pie-in-the-sky ideal I'm dreaming of. C.J. managed to hold a core contradiction inside of himself—an intense love of family balanced against the violence of thug life—that added depth to his characterization. And while he was the lead of the game he starred in, he was still a gang member. Rockstar found interesting things to do with him but C.J. still comes into being by virtue of another overused stereotype.
Does this stuff matter in video games? Yes. The thing to remember is that beneath all the comforting platitudes about a character's race not mattering lies a sticky web of stereotypes and cheap myths that can still insult and anger people playing a game. Even if I wanted to like Sam B from Dead Island, for example, I'm still running up against the fact that he's a hot-tempered thug rapper. Problematic.
Stop leaning on this stereotype. Stop creating loud black soldiers who only know how to yell. Stop putting spear-carrying primitives in games. This is the issue for me when it comes to race and video games..other races just aren't properly represented outside of Carcausion.
I played Dead Island when it came out and there's a point when you get the Natives Camp area. I was like, ‘Oh, OK, we're going to have an African-style primitive out here, The bizarre thing is that the stereotypes you encounter in the games don't even match up timewise with our current culture. That's what's so odd about it. The mainstream culture at large has moved beyond the trope of the black primitive. You can't get away with that kind of thing in a movie, so why are Devs getting away with it in video games?
Another difference with games is that, as a medium, they're about invoking our fears so that we can overcome them, I think that's what happens in both Resident Evil 5 and also Dead Island. They're not just invoking fear of zombies, they are invoking fear of blackness, and offering the gamer an opportunity to challenge their racial fears as well as their other fears. What you're seeing here is a subconscious action. And the reason it becomes clear is because it's not in one game, it's in several different games.
There have been exceptions in games like Left 4 Dead, where you have an actual black nerd character in the game. I honestly think the move away from this going to be generational, when it's so easy to produce a 3D video game that it's the equivalent of shooting a movie today with a digital camera. But, until then, when I see a game that clearly walks right into a racial dead-end, I know I'm seeing a room of developers talking out a story with not one black person, not one Latino person of power in that room. So I think the single biggest thing that many of these companies could do to make sure that they are being representative of the larger culture's ethos, would be to hire in a diverse way.
It's not a question of developers and publishers pushing culture forward, It's a question of them catching up to mainstream culture. Part of it, I think again, is market success. They haven't had to worry about that at this point, because they're still going to sell a ton of games if the basic gameplay is good. But being better about black characters and characters of other races would make the overall quality better, too.
Blackness can be a sort of performance, a lifetime role informed by the ideas of how people see you and how you want to be seen. One thing I've heard over the years is some variation of the colorblind testimonial: "I don't see a black guy when I look at you. I just see you." Well, if you're not seeing a black guy, then you're not seeing all of me. And if you're seeing just a black guy, you're not seeing all of me in that instance either.
I'm not naïve: no one's going to buy a video game because it's less wince-worthy on matters of race or diversity. But, maybe if more diversity found its way into video games, I wouldn't have to hear the word "N" during online multiplayer sessions so much. Or maybe I wouldn't have to listen to characters that sound like 18th-Century minstrels in cyberpunk games (See Deus Ex: Human Revolution).
While I'm sick of video games stumbling around the same ol' stereotypes and being afraid of black lead characters—"they won't sell!," cries the panicked logic— I'm not going to love Starhawk or Prototype 2 more because they have black lead characters. But if Emmett Graves and James Heller tap into some kind of deeper, more surprising portrayal than Standard Gruff Black Guy #29 and feel more human as a result, I'd feel better about the creative possibilities of video games. Again, I can only speak from the experiences I have had as a gamer.. when it comes down to it we are all part of this community but we are not all represented fairly. This isn't just for "black" people, it's about latinos, and women also. All of whom are misrepresented/Underrepresented in video games. Saying that there is no problem only makes it a bigger problem. To all the people in the other thread claiming that this entire thing about Social Justice is a "made up" issue.. I suggest you travel the world more and wake up.
Please do not dismiss the experience of underrepresented people when they tell you when there is something wrong. It only makes you part of the problem.
As a side note: I am excited about Mafia 3 which features a black protagonist during the 60s living in New Orleans. A huge step forward.
-Evan
But, hey, it's a given that video games tend to present exaggerated characters. Marcus Fenix isn't like any white guy I've ever met, after all. But he doesn't have to be. For every Marcus Fenix-type grunt hero, you can also get a witty Nathan Drake, a charming Ezio or a regretful John Marston. Enough white characters exist in video games for a variability of approach. That's simply not true of black characters.
In creating Half-Life 2's Alyx Vance, Valve gave players a woman who was feisty and fragile at the same time. Alyx ranks amongst the best black game characters of all time, but she's another sidekick. C.J. from Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas comes closest to this pie-in-the-sky ideal I'm dreaming of. C.J. managed to hold a core contradiction inside of himself—an intense love of family balanced against the violence of thug life—that added depth to his characterization. And while he was the lead of the game he starred in, he was still a gang member. Rockstar found interesting things to do with him but C.J. still comes into being by virtue of another overused stereotype.
Does this stuff matter in video games? Yes. The thing to remember is that beneath all the comforting platitudes about a character's race not mattering lies a sticky web of stereotypes and cheap myths that can still insult and anger people playing a game. Even if I wanted to like Sam B from Dead Island, for example, I'm still running up against the fact that he's a hot-tempered thug rapper. Problematic.
Stop leaning on this stereotype. Stop creating loud black soldiers who only know how to yell. Stop putting spear-carrying primitives in games. This is the issue for me when it comes to race and video games..other races just aren't properly represented outside of Carcausion.
I played Dead Island when it came out and there's a point when you get the Natives Camp area. I was like, ‘Oh, OK, we're going to have an African-style primitive out here, The bizarre thing is that the stereotypes you encounter in the games don't even match up timewise with our current culture. That's what's so odd about it. The mainstream culture at large has moved beyond the trope of the black primitive. You can't get away with that kind of thing in a movie, so why are Devs getting away with it in video games?
Another difference with games is that, as a medium, they're about invoking our fears so that we can overcome them, I think that's what happens in both Resident Evil 5 and also Dead Island. They're not just invoking fear of zombies, they are invoking fear of blackness, and offering the gamer an opportunity to challenge their racial fears as well as their other fears. What you're seeing here is a subconscious action. And the reason it becomes clear is because it's not in one game, it's in several different games.
There have been exceptions in games like Left 4 Dead, where you have an actual black nerd character in the game. I honestly think the move away from this going to be generational, when it's so easy to produce a 3D video game that it's the equivalent of shooting a movie today with a digital camera. But, until then, when I see a game that clearly walks right into a racial dead-end, I know I'm seeing a room of developers talking out a story with not one black person, not one Latino person of power in that room. So I think the single biggest thing that many of these companies could do to make sure that they are being representative of the larger culture's ethos, would be to hire in a diverse way.
It's not a question of developers and publishers pushing culture forward, It's a question of them catching up to mainstream culture. Part of it, I think again, is market success. They haven't had to worry about that at this point, because they're still going to sell a ton of games if the basic gameplay is good. But being better about black characters and characters of other races would make the overall quality better, too.
Blackness can be a sort of performance, a lifetime role informed by the ideas of how people see you and how you want to be seen. One thing I've heard over the years is some variation of the colorblind testimonial: "I don't see a black guy when I look at you. I just see you." Well, if you're not seeing a black guy, then you're not seeing all of me. And if you're seeing just a black guy, you're not seeing all of me in that instance either.
I'm not naïve: no one's going to buy a video game because it's less wince-worthy on matters of race or diversity. But, maybe if more diversity found its way into video games, I wouldn't have to hear the word "N" during online multiplayer sessions so much. Or maybe I wouldn't have to listen to characters that sound like 18th-Century minstrels in cyberpunk games (See Deus Ex: Human Revolution).
While I'm sick of video games stumbling around the same ol' stereotypes and being afraid of black lead characters—"they won't sell!," cries the panicked logic— I'm not going to love Starhawk or Prototype 2 more because they have black lead characters. But if Emmett Graves and James Heller tap into some kind of deeper, more surprising portrayal than Standard Gruff Black Guy #29 and feel more human as a result, I'd feel better about the creative possibilities of video games. Again, I can only speak from the experiences I have had as a gamer.. when it comes down to it we are all part of this community but we are not all represented fairly. This isn't just for "black" people, it's about latinos, and women also. All of whom are misrepresented/Underrepresented in video games. Saying that there is no problem only makes it a bigger problem. To all the people in the other thread claiming that this entire thing about Social Justice is a "made up" issue.. I suggest you travel the world more and wake up.
Please do not dismiss the experience of underrepresented people when they tell you when there is something wrong. It only makes you part of the problem.
As a side note: I am excited about Mafia 3 which features a black protagonist during the 60s living in New Orleans. A huge step forward.
-Evan
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
As for sexes, does it make sense nearly all dress up games have female protagonists? Of course, because thats the main demographic.
Game wise I do see the disparity in protagonists that you talk about. I also see it in MMOs where people have the ability to make their avatar look as they want. What people create are almost exclusively Caucasian males and females.
In many games, I've tried to make black avatars largely because they are under represented. It's a way to make a more unique character. In most games with a character creator it can't be done. The primary facial characteristics of blacks just can't be replicated because the game's creators didn't put them in.
You can often give an avatar a darker skin tone but that doesn't make the avatar black. The only MMO that comes to mind where you can create a black avatar is EvE.
Which (To me, at least) seemed like a tremendous departure from the film tropes of a black man, particularly in an action film. You have a whole bunch of people crying foul at the same stuff for completely opposite reasons.
If we remove the veil of Ideology and simply examine the work, we have to say that it's just coming up short. To say that Gaming needs to 'catch up' with mainstream media is to say that creatives need to kowtow to whatever narrative is popular at the time. Don't support devs that aren't including you, and reward the ones that are.
There are over 300 films that were eligible but these are the bigger films that had either black directors, actors or both.
None of these films had black nominees if there is a selection at all.
Straight Outta Compton ( Directed by F. Gary Gray / Dr Dre) the nominee here is for best screenplay written by 2 carcausions
Creed (Directed by Ryan Coogler starring Michael B Jordan ) the nominee here is Stallone
Concussion (Starring Will Smith)
Beast of No Nation (Directed by Cary Fukunaga Idris Elba)
Last year there was a overwhelmingly glaring omission of actor David Oyelowo and director Ava DuVernay for their movie “Selma.”
In the Jan. 14 announcement, the Academy of Motion Picture Arts & Sciences listed 23 total producers for the eight movies picked in the best-picture race; seven were women. For the two screenplay races, 17 individuals are nominated, with four women and no racial minorities. The sole nom for “Straight Outta Compton” went to a self-described “white Jewish gay guy from Connecticut” and his white writing partners, Jonathan Herman and Andrea Berloff.)
Awareness of the problem isn’t new in the film industry; various solutions have been proposed, only to fade away. Its not about breakthrough roles.. so you are saying that all of those movies I just listed, none of them had breakthrough roles? I think the kids who were in Compton were amazing and the MBJ did amazing in Creed. Selma last year should have swept, that's how good the kid who played MLK was.. the movie itself was just spectacular.
Lupita Nyongo won best supporting actress for 12 Years A slave in 2013. She barely had any lines in the film and most of the time you see her it is when she is getting whipped by a slave master, or treated like shit in general.. frankly she did nothing to get that award they gave it to her because she was the token black girl for that year.
This is the issue that people are talking about. Just wanted to point that out.
EDIT: saying "oh it's not about skin" is total BS because everyone knows the entertainment industry is all politics, same reason why Beyonce has never won Album of The Year, or Record of the year at the grammys, but they give her "Urban Contemporary" or "R&B Album" of the year. The Grammy is supposed to go to the biggest album/song that year but it never does.. Beyonce has had huge songs in the years she was nominated so huge that the songs were clear winners ("Single Ladies" won best R&B song Grammy) and is in fact a POP star with POP music, but she never wins POP awards, those are reserved for the girls with slightly more "fair" skin.
This is nothing new please dont pretend like it's not real.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
This x 100
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Beyonce yes is an R&B vocalist no doubt about it. When music becomes POP it has nothing to do with anything other than the song being popular. POP MUSIC = POPULAR music. Its how an artist like Taylor Swift who has country music roots can become POP because her actual songs are popular.
Beyonce had a song called Single Ladies. It was the biggest POP song that year and she won best R&B song when she really should have won Best Pop Song/Pop Vocal. Now let's say that song..the same song was on Lady Gaga that year.. Lady Gaga would have won Best Pop Vocal not R&B.
The only reason Beyonce is called R&B is because the color of her skin. She is a pop star. Same thing with Rihanna. Rihanna is a pop star that gets R&B awards only.
Rihanna has had some of the biggest records of the last decade and has only been nominated for R&B awards and won Rap Collaboration Grammy awards because of features on Kanye and Jay Z songs. Again.. this girl is one of the biggest pop stars in the world ... it's not about money.. I dont give a fuck about her money it's the principle that she is over looked for what she deserves time and time again. I'm only trying to point out to you that it is a problem. Don't sit there and say:
"Oh it's because they didn't deserve to win that's why they lost"
Do you realize how the grammy awards are voted? The Oscars? A committee of people who have been this committee for quite some time, (OLD PEOPLE) they aren't connected to the culture they really just pick the things they heard about the most. NOW considering that.. you think these same people dont know who Rihanna is? Beyonce? Trust me they know but they prefer to give them R&B or Hip-Hop awards. Not what they actually earned which is POP.
There is and has been a huge racial issue in award shows, just because you dont want to see it doesn't mean its not there. Its obvious if you look at the details.
PS: Im not a fan of Beyonce or Rihanna but I respect what they have done in their careers. I dont care about money or try to count the money they make.. what's right is right. What's wrong is wrong.
That little bit you added in there about Gay would be true but the issue is, there have been MANY MANY gay/lesbian people win awards. People were not openly saying they were gay until recently due to societal changes.
Black people have always been black in the open. You cant hide the color of your skin. We are not given our just due in these award ceremonies and it sucks because its been like this for a long time. There is a long long list of black actors, musicians and directors who should have gotten the proper accolades but did not.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
First off I never said beyonce should win anything because she isnt white.. did you read anything I said?
Beyonce deserved not only R&B album of the year but ALBUM of the year and POP VOCAL of the year. She lost because she is black. Black girls can only sing R&B, no matter how much of a POP STAR they are we will never call them pop because POP is reserved for All American Girls.
Rihanna deserved BEST POP Vocal NUMEROUS times, this girl is one of the biggest pop stars of the last decade if not the biggest and she has ONLY won R&B/Hip-Hop awards.
You cant be serious. This has nothing to do with anything but race. Its a race thing. They both deserved to win, not because they were BLACK but because their songs were literally the Biggest POP records in there respective years. All you gotta do is check soundscan if you want the proof, But I think you know already.
I am not a fan of either girl, I like underground stuff, but I call it like I see it.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
I dont need to list it all out, I actually prefer not to but you can follow me on twitter for more on that.. twitter.com/_KLSH
Anyway. you still haven't proved anything I said to be wrong. Quoting random shit isnt proving a point. I will say it again.. break it down for you again.
The whole beyonce thing has nothing to do with OPINION.. there are stats that back my claims (and the claims of many others) and FYI its stats usually that are supposed be used as the barometer.. aka the artists with the biggest songs get the awards.
(Personally i think the awards should go to the BEST not most popular/successful record, but that's a whole other conversation.)
Let's say Taylor Swift vs Katy Perry for song of the year.. when its 2 big pop stars they usually give it to the person who had the 'bigger record' BIGGER in this business means "MOST SUCCESSFUL" that's what the grammys are for.. If its Beyonce vs Taylor Swift or Rihanna vs GaGa.. the awards has always gone to the other person. It's an issue because both Beyonce and Rihanna both lost to people with LESS SUCCESSFUL RECORDS THAN THEIRS.
Music isn't as subjective as you think it is.. maybe it is for the avg listener but for people in this business, we understand what the accolades are for. It goes to the biggest most popular aka POP song. Rihanna and Beyonce are not awarded pop because they are black. Do not say its because they sing R&B, Taylor swift sang country. She became pop just like they did after starting in R&B. I cannot break this down any further for you.
This thread is about racial equality in video games. The only reason music and film was brought up was because it has obvious similarities across the board just different mediums. You can't understand any of this because you have the "I can't see it or experience it so it's not real" complex.
Stop quoting me before I embarrass you jean. Everything I have said is within reason but it seems like your weird complex with racism won't let you accept it as truth for others. Just because you can't experience what I'm talking about doesn't mean it isn't happening.
FYI: There are more jobs in the Video game industry than just Game Design. Game Development is a lot of things put together and SOUND DESIGN happens to be one of them.
Live Long and Prosper.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
(I must have done something right if twitter gave me a verified badge. Hmm.. I wonder what?)
okaaay.. so behave in what way? Talking about what's right? Standing up for what I believe in? I could care less about how you feel about me, it doesn't make anything I say any less valid. EVER.
The fact that I have only answered your bullshit with valid points about things you really dont understand obviously gets under your skin. Are you offended by my blackness jean? I think you are. Hey that's your priority and guess what else.. I dont care.
Like I said you haven't ONCE been able to dispute anything I said.. all you can do is make 10th grade level insults. Also your ignorance is showing BADLY. You honestly think that people win awards based on them being "good"? LOL oh wow you have no clue. Its not based on "GOOD" its based on Popularity. Popular does not equate to Good, it just means more people knew about that particular thing so guess what? More people voted for it because they knew about it.
Let me explain to you AGAIN what's going on since you really have no fucking clue.
The grammys are voted by a committee of people, I suggest you look up who that group of people actually is. Anyway.. they vote and pick their person and that it. So let's say you're Beyonce or Rihanna and your very popular song had the most spins at radio all year, you did the biggest numbers only to lose to somebody who only had a regional success. That shouldn't ever happen based on how they are SUPPOSED to vote the grammys.
That's the issue..
Lets examine your BS train of thought "The good songs win" .. why is it that no black artist is ever good enough to have album of the year then? Who makes that choice? Is it because the people who voted have never listened to hip hop or R&B in order to judge it properly so they just skim listen and then pick country because that's more familiar to them?
So Beyonce and Rihanna with wildly successful songs/albums (compared to their peers, Mainstream culture also loves them) and most mainstream saying "this song is amazing" just aren't good enough..every time?
Macklemore with a slightly successful buzz song (Mainstream culture says the song is very bad) can beat Drake because Drake (Mainstream culture loves this dude) just wasn't good enough?
Is it because they dont have enough people on the committee that can properly judge "urban" music?
How did Macklemore beat Drake in ANY category at the grammys if it's about the BEST MUSIC? You do know that most of the music industry believes Drake was slighted that year by Macklemore.. do you see the issue with your incredibly stupid claim? Like I said do your research before talking to me about this, I do this music thing for a living.
Again if to YOU the grammys are just a statue then you need to stfu anyway because you can't talk to me in general about this if you dont even view it properly. The grammys are more than a statue it is the validation from your peers that you are kicking ass and should keep on kicking ass. It's the moment you wait for your whole life as a musician and it happens in front of all your peers. How dare you try to shit on other peoples hard work just because you dont understand it.
A lot of really great musicians won grammys. But a lot of great musicians also lost grammys to people who make very bad music. Do you know how many AWFUL songs won grammys? A LOT.. what the hell are you talking about.. like I said you can't have this conversation with me, unless you do your research. May I suggest to you, google?
Let's put race aside. You do realize how these things are voted? Do you even know the process or are you talking out your ass? Do your research, I can't keep helping with your argument. Researching this will give you a basic understanding of HOW it works, but again it's a lot more than that and the other part can only be learned from experience. You have none in this field I assure you.
Again the only reason this spilled over into music/film is because I have to break it down for you to show you the direct correlation with racial diversity, video games and how minorities specifically black people are not treated as equals in other mediums as well. This had to broken down like this because you are trying to deny not only me but others of their issue.
No, this is a real issue, you saying there isn't a problem to people who say its a problem is PART of the problem.
You know why this makes you uncomfortable? I will tell you why, because black people are a super minority in the video game world. We are all talking and saying the same thing, but its not enough of us so the voice isn't loud enough. If I can help with that and bring awareness to an issue of this nature I am. I dont care if you block me its not going to change a damn thing about our truth dude.
Again. I hate having to do this to you, because I really like star trek but man you really sound ignorant and the fact that you can't rebuttal any of my points outside of making snarky kid remarks is a sign that you were defeated long ago. So yes..
I DO SAY Yes JEAN, lol please will you ignore me because I always speak out on issues that most people in this community are scared to speak about. I'm not going to change for you, anybody on this site or anybody on the entire internet. My views are my own and they are validated because others share this point of view.
Dude I constantly broke down everything you tried to say and now that you are defeated you resort to "Im gonna ignore you"
LMAO I dont care dude.. ? lol welcome to my internet. :awesome:
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
1) The majority of western developers are white
2) When a white person attempts to replicate black culture, they usually get it wrong, resulting in angry black people (like OP)
3) When a white person realises they can't replicate black culture and decides to leave it out, they also get angry black people (like OP) complaining about being left out.
So, the long and the short of it is that western developers can never win this one, unless they hire more black people. Now, techies tend to be pretty open minded, logical people, so I imagine that the lack of black people in development is not down to racism, simply that there aren't many black people studying technical subjects.
For example, I'm 30, male, white and a software engineer. I've worked in web development, I've worked for a large defence company and I've worked for a AAA games studio (all in UK). Out of maybe 5000 software engineers that I've met or seen in the companies and universities throughout the 12 years since leaving school, I've only seen maybe 15 black software developers. There were no black students studying software engineering in my year at uni (~120 people), nor in the year below (~100 people). I've never had a black person apply for a job at a company I've worked at.
That is where the core problem lies. You can't expect cultures to be accurately represented in video games if those cultures aren't accurately represented by the staff making those games.
So, I'd personally stop bitching about racial equality in video games. Its not the developers fault - they lose either way. Work towards racial equality in schools. Work towards removing cultural attitudes towards techies within black communities so that, perhaps, more black people will feel able to study and enjoy technical subjects.
With the limited slots and how the industry works etc. I'm actually surprised that Sly managed to grab a nomination, probably it's a nod to the whole Rocky line. Creed is a fairly good movie, but its strength is not in the acting parts, more like the edit, especially the boxing scenes. And even that was "only" (in brackets) good, but nothing extra. Sure, Oscar is not about quality since decades (
Don't get me wrong, that's not a negative thing
Same for Compton. Problems right at the start, with the categories to enter: it's not a docu by the letter, has no lead (though the script was more or less built around E, the film moves way too many characters), has no original song to nominate, no visual effects, etc.
It's a cool movie though and I really liked it - but maybe just because I'm a weird white dude from the midst of EU who likes N.W.A. and the late '80s - early '90s West coast
OP, why only games, and movies? Don't forget Hooper-X's speech at the Minority panel of the comic con
https://youtu.be/7L9io-b9Uew (man, Kevin Smith was awesome)
Did Will Smith come out and say he should have gotten the nomination? Are you projecting being snubbed on Will Smith. Big difference.
I lol at the whole Oscar "snub" fiasco. It is an industry award which promotes movies. For the "Winners" it is the narcissism award. To hell with narcissists and their look at me bullshit.
How about you admit your racism here?
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
In my own experience, who I am playing doesn't matter much, it might be a girl, it might be an imaginary creature, or a buff warrior, whatever, I might identify with it on some level but I don't care that my own "archetype" isn't playable or portrayed.
And above all, I believe in artistic freedom, so I don't feel like writers, movie makers, game devs, etc... should follow a guiderule to make their art "politically correct" or fitting of some social justice agenda. They should follow their own vision and creative process, but, obviously, if they are white in a white society, they won't portray black people accurately, if at all.
That's just reality, and honestly, if this kind of issue - with roots in that big, cold, harsh reality - is in your circle of concerns, it means to me that you're living in a very soft bubble.
you should look up the word racism and try to really digest what it means. Nothing i said here was even close to racism.
Again this is the problem. As soon as racial inequality is brought up, a whole bunch of people who aren't minorities start talking this "nothing is wrong because I dont see it" bullshit.
You can't understand it so just say that. Don't say it's not happening because it's not your experience.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Dude what?
So by your logic because Africa isn't making games with black characters, that's the reason why I don't see black characters in video games? So much underhand racism here. Amazing..
Let's start with this, I'm not African. Im American. African descent. American.
What does Africa making games have to do with what I said?
The country I live in.. USA.. the society I grew up in.. does very little to include black characters, matter of fact, if you took video games as a representation of the country (if you'd never been here) you would think, there were only young caucasian people living here.
The reason why this is a problem is several layered, and ranges from inequality in opportunities, to racism. Most important is that the people who play and purchase video games come from all backgrounds..but still we are only shown one type of American in 90% of video games and other media.
All my friends are what society would coin as "Nerds". I have friends of all races, but due to location 90% of my friends were black. im 29 yrs old which means I was around before the internet was a place to leave a unpopular opinion. So Everything I say comes from experience, my own and others.
If a bunch of people are saying "There is a fire over there, I just came from the area" you dont tell them "shut up I dont smell any smoke so it can't be a fire."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Edit: I'm glaringly obviously one of maybe 4-5 black people on this site that posts regularly.. so if you are going to respond to this old thread please read the full op. I'm tired of responding to people who leave senseless underhanded comments because they have a lack of understanding of what I'm talking about.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Sorry in advance if I ruined anybody's media-enforced stereotypes.
PS
Turn off the TV.
My youtube MMO gaming channel
Media Enforced stereotypes?
So I guess racism really ISN'T real and it's just the media making stuff up, who knew! I sure didn't.. It's not like people actually experience racial inequality or nothing.. nah it's all just media enforced stereotypes!
Civil Rights movement never happened in the 60s either because it was just a conspiracy by the media/government to create stereotypes that would last until at least 2016! AMAZING!
What myself and others like me have experienced may only exist on "TV" for you.. but in my world it's a everyday thing. You and many others here apparently just dont get it and are so out of touch with race relation because you simply do not need to worry about it. You may see it on tv but all that is is a snapshot of the actual reality.
Quick story: Ironically just yesterday, I was walking in my neighborhood, a nice area in the valley Los Angeles (I live alone), and 2 cop cars stopped got out and asked me where I was going, where I lived my name etc etc..Giving me hassle.
You know why? Because they were looking for somebody who apparently stole a radio out of someone's car. I got questioned because i "Fit" their profile of the suspect.
You never have to worry about shit like that.. the whole time Im just thinking please dont let these fucking police officers shoot me and later say I attacked them.. Don't tell me it's some made up bs on TV.. it might be for you. Not for me and not for many other people.
So when I say, we need more/better representation in mainstream video game culture.. Im saying that.. WE are saying that, because every little bit of "Stereotypical Media" bs we can change will help change how we are viewed. There are many things that come into play and it's not just "Video Games", but video games help because it reaches the youth and that's who needs it the most. We gotta break these chains. So yea bring on the Black Spiderman (my friend is reading for that role, he is black.) We need more things like that.
So people need to stop coming in here trying to twist my words as if I'm alluding to "Lack of Black People in Games is sole cause of racism" or painting me as some angry black man. I won't stand for that. What I'm saying is, in general African and Latin American people aren't represented properly in video games and it's always been that way.
I'm tired of the blue eye-brown hair-fair skin-Knight-in-armor. Add some diversity. Other types of people buy and love these games.
The only company who IMO is pushing that bar is Bioware. They understand and nailed it in the head with Dragon Age Inquisition.. they have other games too but that one in particular handled EVERYTHING well.
The More You Know.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Videogames aren't going to solve any problems with race relations. Looking to games, the media, the White House...that's all a dead end. The only person who can make your life better is you.
I've never met a successful black person who sat around waiting for a positive portrayal of black people in the media before they got up for school, college or work.
And don't even try to act like cops don't get stupid with white people. My car and my apartment have been searched by cops. Its really fun getting ticketed for going 5mph over the speed limit on a street full of meth houses. You would think in any of those cases they could have found a better way to justify their salary than harassing someone with no criminal record.
You can take control of what you have control over and move onward and upward or you can keep feeling sorry for yourself and go nowhere. It's up to you.
My youtube MMO gaming channel
I do have my prejudices based on skin color/ethnicity. I am aware of them and I try to minimize them. Hopefully those who have responded to you will some day make the effort to do the same.
There are not enough black characters in games who just happen to be black.
Be well.
Now when it comes to character customization I can't be sure why developers don't provide darker skin options in the games that don't. Skin tone isn't something that's difficult to implement. I do understand the frustration here because I do not like having only Asian characters to choose from in many of the Asian games. I don't call them racist for it though. Just assholes