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The Cloud Imperium - Building an Empire with Crowd funded money

245

Comments

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    If you are spending other people's money then it always seems justified,just look at governments.

    To make ANY notion that there is no talent in every country ,every state is total bull shit.

    I thought the UK was for his brother,the Hollywood well that is where Chris lives his dream in Hollywood,he thinks he is a producer and his wife a super model.All the studios are rather close,Germany may have been near where the ships modules are made,idk.
    I do know this and i am no expert,only going on what i have talked about with big shot millionaires is they need lots of corporations to move money and debt around,basically a legal way to rip government off of tax dollars.

    LLC=Limited liability corporations only they are not corporations,they don't get taxed like normal businesses,hence why it really is likely a legal scam or i guess a way to protect each individual business. 
    I am sure you have to be a lawyer to fully understand how many ways you can pull off scams using LLC's which is likely why Chris has that lawyer/accountant as a partner along with his  brother.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • ShodanasShodanas Member RarePosts: 1,933
    edited February 2016
    Wizardry said:
    If you are spending other people's money then it always seems justified,just look at governments.

    To make ANY notion that there is no talent in every country ,every state is total bull shit.

    I thought the UK was for his brother,the Hollywood well that is where Chris lives his dream in Hollywood,he thinks he is a producer and his wife a super model.All the studios are rather close,Germany may have been near where the ships modules are made,idk.
    I do know this and i am no expert,only going on what i have talked about with big shot millionaires is they need lots of corporations to move money and debt around,basically a legal way to rip government off of tax dollars.

    LLC=Limited liability corporations only they are not corporations,they don't get taxed like normal businesses,hence why it really is likely a legal scam or i guess a way to protect each individual business. 
    I am sure you have to be a lawyer to fully understand how many ways you can pull off scams using LLC's which is likely why Chris has that lawyer/accountant as a partner along with his  brother.
    This is beyond low.. really now.

    Not liking a project or a game or something is understandable. Believing that it will suck is understandable. Siting behind a keyboard and throwing this amount of shit at people you don't know with paparazzi'like arguments is just beyond comprehension.

    Since you don't know, Germany is the place where the CryEngine experst are ? Why? Because they are Germans.
  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
    Shodanas said:
    Thourne said:
    Often overlooked is having a presence where the talent is located.
    It is much easier to hire persons to work without having them relocate.
    If you want to hire someone and offer them to cover moving cost and finding a place to stay, which is pretty much standard practice for big companies then it is no problem to get talent to come to you.

    Doing that is multiple times cheaper than opening a local office.

    Also: You think that flying high class actors to the UK to do motion capture is cheap?
    You're oversimplifying things in order to establish a weak argument.

    Check my reply above regarding the Frankfurt office. Do you really believe that it is feasible, in every aspect, to move 22+ people half way across the globe ?

    "find them homes and cover the movement costs.. is multiple times cheaper.." it looks easy enough on paper does it not ?
    I worked for SONY and we hired talent from all over the world and moved them to the offices they were needed in. The top management was always pushing for them to move and even offered bonus payments to make it more attractive. Remember, this is SONY and back then we had offices in 43 countries worldwide so there was really no need to move them as offices were readily available.

    It's not only the cost though, it is also the communication and efficiency of a team. When you split up development of core systems across different time zones you essentially slow down communications and add unnecessary management overhead which leads to very serious issues in your development cycle.

    One such effect is clearly visible in Star Citizen. The constant leaving of high ranking officers especially producers which get frustrated trying to manage a fragmented team. Not to mention the immense technical requirements to manage one stable worldwide source code build. I don't want to be in the shoes of that build manager, it must be a nightmare.
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    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

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  • ShodanasShodanas Member RarePosts: 1,933
    Shodanas said:
    Thourne said:
    Often overlooked is having a presence where the talent is located.
    It is much easier to hire persons to work without having them relocate.
    If you want to hire someone and offer them to cover moving cost and finding a place to stay, which is pretty much standard practice for big companies then it is no problem to get talent to come to you.

    Doing that is multiple times cheaper than opening a local office.

    Also: You think that flying high class actors to the UK to do motion capture is cheap?
    You're oversimplifying things in order to establish a weak argument.

    Check my reply above regarding the Frankfurt office. Do you really believe that it is feasible, in every aspect, to move 22+ people half way across the globe ?

    "find them homes and cover the movement costs.. is multiple times cheaper.." it looks easy enough on paper does it not ?
    I worked for SONY and we hired talent from all over the world and moved them to the offices they were needed in. The top management was always pushing for them to move and even offered bonus payments to make it more attractive. Remember, this is SONY and back then we had offices in 43 countries worldwide so there was really no need to move them as offices were readily available.

    It's not only the cost though, it is also the communication and efficiency of a team. When you split up development of core systems across different time zones you essentially slow down communications and add unnecessary management overhead which leads to very serious issues in your development cycle.

    One such effect is clearly visible in Star Citizen. The constant leaving of high ranking officers especially producers which get frustrated trying to manage a fragmented team. Not to mention the immense technical requirements to manage one stable worldwide source code build. I don't want to be in the shoes of that build manager, it must be a nightmare.
    Let's look at the German office.

    You're a German CryEngine expert, actually you and your team made the thing, working and living in one of the most advanced, in every aspect, countries in the world. With living standards quite higher than the U.S. Why on Earth would you go and work there ?

    If someone needs your teams skills he will come to you especially if this one is a newly founded game studio. CiG is not EA or Blizzard or Bethesda. And btw, Rockstar, Blizzard, EA and Eidos have studios in Europe.
  • Adjuvant1Adjuvant1 Member RarePosts: 2,100
    Shodanas said:
     With living standards quite higher than the U.S. Why on Earth would you go and work there ?

    Um. No. Better than a handful of specific states, as Mississippi, Alabama and West Virginia, but then, I'm sure Germany has its less affluent areas. Not overall, and our elite are a significantly larger, more wealthy group.

    Interesting you think so, though. Are you an employee at the Frankfurt office?
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    Adjuvant1 said:
    Shodanas said:
     With living standards quite higher than the U.S. Why on Earth would you go and work there ?

    Um. No. Better than a handful of specific states, as Mississippi, Alabama and West Virginia, but then, I'm sure Germany has its less affluent areas. Not overall, and our elite are a significantly larger, more wealthy group.

    Interesting you think so, though. Are you an employee at the Frankfurt office?
    Actually have you ever been there?

    I've visited many occasions including behind the Iron Curtain back in the day. There medical and education system is definitely something we could learn from.

    The wealth is spread around the general populace a lot more there. The standard of living is higher there than it is here in NA. 

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • QuesaQuesa Member UncommonPosts: 1,432
    The SC hate is strong this week.
    Star Citizen Referral Code: STAR-DPBM-Z2P4
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,328
    Quesa said:
    The SC hate is strong this week.
    Because its SomethingAwful "Lets fuck with SC" week .... they get bored easily and move on to the next target soon. That is what they do ...


    Have fun
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,328

    Do you honestly believe that to make the game you need four offices around the world some of which cost $20 million and 15 companies; Is that really necessary to make a game?
    It helps. Some reasons:

    Tax breaks (especially UK) --> More cash for development

    Lower wages in Europe (gaming industry)

    Going were the talent is (instead of paying a lot for the talent to come to you)

    Less competition for talent

    Going were the experts are  (for a game based on the CryEngine to get some of the best and brightest engineers of CryTrek in Frankfurt was quite a stroke of luck)


    As someone said before .. CIG is not Blizzard. If Blizzard asks you nicely, you cross the pond swimming. If a small gaming company with one unreleased product asks you, some will have second thoughts before changing their whole life.


    Have fun

  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
    Erillion said:

    Do you honestly believe that to make the game you need four offices around the world some of which cost $20 million and 15 companies; Is that really necessary to make a game?
    It helps. Some reasons:

    Tax breaks (especially UK) --> More cash for development

    Lower wages in Europe (gaming industry)

    Going were the talent is (instead of paying a lot for the talent to come to you)

    Less competition for talent

    Going were the experts are  (for a game based on the CryEngine to get some of the best and brightest engineers of CryTrek in Frankfurt was quite a stroke of luck)


    As someone said before .. CIG is not Blizzard. If Blizzard asks you nicely, you cross the pond swimming. If a small gaming company with one unreleased product asks you, some will have second thoughts before changing their whole life.


    Have fun

    Tax breaks do not offset the cost of new offices. (especially not if they cost $20 million). Tax breaks also only take effect if you have revenue which they do not have yet since they have no game to sell.

    European employees are much more expensive than US for many reasons:

    1. Employee cost in Europe are 20-25% of gross salary. US it's only 8%
    2. European work 35-38 hours a week. US work week is 40 hours.
    3. European average paid vacation and holidays are 35 per year. US has 16 paid vacation days and holidays.

    Going were the talent is costs more than getting the talent to you.

    CIG is the biggest crowdfunded game ever and it is about as famous as you can get. I doubt anyone would refuse to work with them on the basis of them being small and unknown.

    The only thing that made sense is grabbing the Crytek Employees.

    Have faith
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    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

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  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,328

    European employees are much more expensive than US for many reasons:

    Or not:

    http://www.worldsalaries.org/computerprogrammer.shtml


    Have fun

  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    Erillion said:
     

    Going were the experts are  (for a game based on the CryEngine to get some of the best and brightest engineers of CryTrek in Frankfurt was quite a stroke of luck)



    If they are experts on the CryEngine then why didn't they tell CR it was impossible to do what he wanted?  And why didn't he listen?  Instead they had to see it wouldn't work and they were forced to go a completely different direction.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117

    Shodanas said:
    Thourne said:
    Often overlooked is having a presence where the talent is located.
    It is much easier to hire persons to work without having them relocate.
    If you want to hire someone and offer them to cover moving cost and finding a place to stay, which is pretty much standard practice for big companies then it is no problem to get talent to come to you.

    Doing that is multiple times cheaper than opening a local office.

    Also: You think that flying high class actors to the UK to do motion capture is cheap?
    You're oversimplifying things in order to establish a weak argument.

    Check my reply above regarding the Frankfurt office. Do you really believe that it is feasible, in every aspect, to move 22+ people half way across the globe ?

    "find them homes and cover the movement costs.. is multiple times cheaper.." it looks easy enough on paper does it not ?
    Frankfurt Office made sense to get those 20 Crytek employees, spending $20 million for just the office made no sense.

    It does not only look easy on paper it is easy. For $20 million you could have given every single one of those 20 employees a very nice $450,000 house and a $50,000 car in the US and you would still have $10 million left. I doubt many would refuse an offer like that. But hey, that is just crazy right?
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
    edited February 2016
    Erillion said:

    European employees are much more expensive than US for many reasons:

    Or not:
    http://www.worldsalaries.org/computerprogrammer.shtml
    Have fun

    Come on Erillion stop with the bullshitting. You know very well that they are. I know that because i know you are from europe.

    1. Employee cost in Europe are 20-25% of gross salary. US it's only 8%
    2. European work 35-38 hours a week. US work week is 40 hours.
    3. European average paid vacation and holidays are 35 per year. US has 16 paid vacation days and holidays.

    I don't even go into benefits but we all know how those work for EU employees compared to US.

    European employees work more than one month less per year and cost 25% more in extra cost.

    They are at least as expensive as US workers and you know it.
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,328
    filmoret said:
    If they are experts on the CryEngine then why didn't they tell CR it was impossible to do what he wanted? 

     >>>> “Impossible is Nothing,” it said. “Impossible is just a big word thrown around by small men who find it easier to live in the world they’ve been given than to explore the power they have to change it. Impossible is not a fact. It’s an opinion. Impossible is not a declaration. It’s a dare. Impossible is potential. Impossible is temporary. Impossible is nothing.” >>>>

    http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/impossible


    Have fun



  • ShodanasShodanas Member RarePosts: 1,933
    Erillion said:

    European employees are much more expensive than US for many reasons:

    Or not:
    http://www.worldsalaries.org/computerprogrammer.shtml
    Have fun

    Come on Erillion stop with the bullshitting. You know very well that they are. I know that because i know you are from europe.

    1. Employee cost in Europe are 20-25% of gross salary. US it's only 8%
    2. European work 35-38 hours a week. US work week is 40 hours.
    3. European average paid vacation and holidays are 35 per year. US has 16 paid vacation days and holidays.

    I don't even go into benefits but we all know how those work for EU employees compared to US.

    European employees work more than one month less per year and cost 25% more in extra cost.

    They are at least as expensive as US workers and you know it.
    He provides link to data backing his statement.

    You reply that he is full of BS.

    You provide no proof whatsoever regarding your claims. We just have to De facto accept them.
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916

    ...

    It does not only look easy on paper it is easy. For $20 million you could have given every single one of those 20 employees a very nice $450,000 house and a $50,000 car in the US and you would still have $10 million left. I doubt many would refuse an offer like that. But hey, that is just crazy right?
    No, it's not that easy. People aren't numbers on a sheet of paper, they have friends and families and kids in school, etc.

    Americans may find it difficult to believe, but many europeans aren't solely interested in the $450,000 house and $50,000 car. They prefer to work in their country of birth, surrounded by friends and family and the comfort of a high living standard in a society where crime is so rare that it still makes local news headlines.

    Many europeans don't own a car, because they don't really need one. Public transport is safe, clean, affordable and punctual. In Netherlands, for example, many people cycle to work every day.

  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
    edited February 2016
    Shodanas said:
    Erillion said:

    European employees are much more expensive than US for many reasons:

    Or not:
    http://www.worldsalaries.org/computerprogrammer.shtml
    Have fun

    Come on Erillion stop with the bullshitting. You know very well that they are. I know that because i know you are from europe.

    1. Employee cost in Europe are 20-25% of gross salary. US it's only 8%
    2. European work 35-38 hours a week. US work week is 40 hours.
    3. European average paid vacation and holidays are 35 per year. US has 16 paid vacation days and holidays.

    I don't even go into benefits but we all know how those work for EU employees compared to US.

    European employees work more than one month less per year and cost 25% more in extra cost.

    They are at least as expensive as US workers and you know it.
    He provides link to data backing his statement.

    You reply that he is full of BS.

    You provide no proof whatsoever regarding your claims. We just have to De facto accept them.
    [mod edit]

    Detailed Labor Cost: http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Wages_and_labour_costs
    General Info about cost of employees: http://www.touchsupport.com/understanding-the-true-cost-of-an-employee/
    Europe leads the world with most paid leave/vacation days: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/01/worlds-most-paid-vacation-days_n_3697394.html

    [mod edit]

    Post edited by Amana on
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    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,328


    Hmm, should I believe Mr.Snuffles ?

    Or the official numbers of the US Department of Labor ?

    Hmmm....



    Have fun
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Erillion said:

    Do you honestly believe that to make the game you need four offices around the world some of which cost $20 million and 15 companies; Is that really necessary to make a game?
    It helps. Some reasons:

    Tax breaks (especially UK) --> More cash for development

    Lower wages in Europe (gaming industry)

    Going were the talent is (instead of paying a lot for the talent to come to you)

    Less competition for talent

    Going were the experts are  (for a game based on the CryEngine to get some of the best and brightest engineers of CryTrek in Frankfurt was quite a stroke of luck)


    As someone said before .. CIG is not Blizzard. If Blizzard asks you nicely, you cross the pond swimming. If a small gaming company with one unreleased product asks you, some will have second thoughts before changing their whole life.


    Have fun

    Tax breaks do not offset the cost of new offices. (especially not if they cost $20 million). Tax breaks also only take effect if you have revenue which they do not have yet since they have no game to sell.



    That's not entirely true. There are plenty of grants available for companies based on their work. It's one reason why many games remain perpetually in beta. You don't need to make a profit in order to claim grants for things like R&D, etc. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • TsaboHavocTsaboHavoc Member UncommonPosts: 435
    *pop up of nowhere -
    What if CR is overpaying/buying unecessary stuff to later share the profit with the sellers?

    * hides
  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
    Erillion said:

    Hmm, should I believe Mr.Snuffles ?

    Or the official numbers of the US Department of Labor ?

    Hmmm....

    Have fun
    Your link is meaningless since salary is not the cost of employment. You know this very well and that is why you do not quote my whole posts.

    The cost of an employee is NOT ONLY HIS SALARY. Now stop trying to win an argument you already lost, it's really pathetic at this point.

    It's common knowledge but since you are unable to find the information yourself:

    Detailed Labor Cost: http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Wages_and_labour_costs
    General Info about cost of employees: http://www.touchsupport.com/understanding-the-true-cost-of-an-employee/
    Europe leads the world with most paid leave/vacation days: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/01/worlds-most-paid-vacation-days_n_3697394.html

    Took me 3 minutes. Next time do it yourself or get an education. This is common knowledge.
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
    edited February 2016
    Erillion said:
    MrSnuffles said:

    Come on Erillion stop with the bullshitting. You know very well that they are. I know that because i know you are from europe.

    1. Employee cost in Europe are 20-25% of gross salary. US it's only 8%
    2. European work 35-38 hours a week. US work week is 40 hours.
    3. European average paid vacation and holidays are 35 per year. US has 16 paid vacation days and holidays.

    It's common knowledge:

    Detailed Labor Cost: http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Wages_and_labour_costs
    General Info about cost of employees: http://www.touchsupport.com/understanding-the-true-cost-of-an-employee/
    Europe leads the world with most paid leave/vacation days: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/01/worlds-most-paid-vacation-days_n_3697394.html

    I believe Mr.Snuffles

    Have fun
    Thanks Erillion

    Have faith

    PS: I can play the "quote only what you want game" too.
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

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  • ShodanasShodanas Member RarePosts: 1,933
    edited February 2016
    Erillion said:

    Hmm, should I believe Mr.Snuffles ?

    Or the official numbers of the US Department of Labor ?

    Hmmm....

    Have fun
    Your link is meaningless since salary is not the cost of employment. You know this very well and that is why you do not quote my whole posts.

    The cost of an employee is NOT ONLY HIS SALARY. Now stop trying to win an argument you already lost, it's really pathetic at this point.

    It's common knowledge but since you are unable to find the information yourself:

    Detailed Labor Cost: http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Wages_and_labour_costs
    General Info about cost of employees: http://www.touchsupport.com/understanding-the-true-cost-of-an-employee/
    Europe leads the world with most paid leave/vacation days: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/01/worlds-most-paid-vacation-days_n_3697394.html

    Took me 3 minutes. Next time do it yourself or get an education. This is common knowledge.
    [mod edit]

    I'll give you a tip though: find the detailed numbers about labor costs in the game development industry. Especially the data concerning California, Texas and central Europe.

    Then come again and elaborate with a straight face about how feasible it is to move 20+ experts from Frankfurt to LA or Austin.
    Post edited by Amana on
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,328

    PS: I can play the "quote only what you want game" too.
    You play the "I delete in the middle of a sentence what i want to create another meaning" game.  ;-)


    Have fun


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