XP bar gone! This Dev team will be your Dungeon Master and reward you at the end of the night!

Gyva02

Holy cow wow! Saw this video and was amazed, this sounds really really awesome to restore realm pride and remove that grindy feeling. I really regret not giving CU more of my attention but it's got it now. I really would recommend that if anyone thinks the current state of games has grown stale to give this video a watch. Hopefully it'll lead you to watching others. I'm hooked, sign me up for CU. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKgySmQg0gM

Aethaeryn

he explained one thing well I have had a hard time putting my finger on.  The ease of completing quests on autopilot is indeed a "grind".  Clicking next and skipping text and following an arrow is just as dull as just grinding mobs.  The player could choose to play differently of course but sometimes games do seem to drag you forward and never slow down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKgySmQg0gM

Absolutely love the idea of players not knowing how much xp they get etc.  Leaving that behind the scenes will take away that feeling of having to do something because it is more efficient etc.  again, of course you don't have to focus on that in other games as well.

4Renziks

seems like going abit overboard..requiring server shutdowns daily. Open to the idea but i think theres a bit overthinking here. Just make conent thats variable and rewarding end of story.

Gyva02

4Renziks said:

seems like going abit overboard..requiring server shutdowns daily. Open to the idea but i think theres a bit overthinking here. Just make conent thats variable and rewarding end of story.

I came across in my readings today that the shutdowns would only take a few minutes, so no biggie... 

Wizardry

Well to start he is as bad as me trying to explain stuff lol.

However the whole idea behind game design and it's systems does need to be well thought out.

To shorten up his speech ,he really gave it all away when he mentioned GW2 because imo he is taking that idea and just putting a very slight twist on it.

I will say straight up ,i don't like it.What this is doing similar to GW2 is taking a battle and rewarding who contributed most to the battle.Players are not stupid and some are very smart,they will in VERY short order figure out exactly what is giving the best rewards and then players will be forced into that type of game play to get the best results from their player.

In reality,this is not a fix or  better,it is just doing the same old in a different way.I will try to think of one real easy example to prove the flaw in this system.

Imagine you have two players,one healer and one dps or tank.Lets say the DPS is just super geared or able to do massive damage and taking almost no damage.Well he is going to be heavily rewarded while the Healer did not have to do hardly anything even if he wanted to.Now i am not saying this exact scenario will happen,i am merely pointing out it's flaws.

The way a game SHOULD be done is by "trying" to bring players together to accomplish goals.If you want to use the REALM idea ok no prob but reward each player within the realm the exact same based on the overall effort of that Realm and NOT based on the entire server/game.If you do not treat every player the same,then you will end up with the flaw i mentioned in the first paragraph.I personally feel this is a real over done idea to fix the problem of leveling.Instead there should be more importance to each level and instead of levels ,use aging.If you are afraid of your player dying then create magical ideas to restore a players health and longevity.

Wizardry

As usual i should mention i have already seen every idea done in some sort of fashion in FFXI.

In FFXI this idea came about during their Campaign/Beseiged events/content.What happened was that players soon realized they could just ignore the battles and sit there buffing themselves off in some corner and because they were actively doing something non stop,they were rewarded more than the players actually doing the content.So then Square realized the mistake in this type of system and had to go back several times and re-tweak it.
Point being that after all was said and done,they reverted right back to a guaranteed ,knowing system,so it really does not work very well.

Another area of concern is what happens if you reward crafting and players start using crafting bots?This will definitely happen,so this idea he is going with ,imo needed to be more well thought out,it is going to end up having several changes and tweaks before all is said and one.

Imo there are better ways to pull off the ideas he is after.

acidblood

Haven't watched the video (internet here is rubbish), but I agree with Wizardry, any system that is designed to reward participants based on some abstract* notion of 'effort' is doomed to fail (i.e. be gamed).

The best I have seen is a 'minimum' effort system where you need to put in a minimum effort, so you can't just show up at the last second or sit around in the general area, but as long as the event is completed everyone gets the same reward (with no reward diminishing another, i.e. the more the merrier). Yes, technically this can be gamed as well, but if events are limited, time based, and / or have a significant risk of failure, then most players will stick around for the duration to ensure the events successful completion.

* Note that by abstract I mean something that can't be easily measure / weighed. Effort in a running race is not abstract because it has a clear goal (to get to the finish line) and a clear winner (the person who got there first). Effort in a group vs. group fight is abstract because without the DPS you couldn't kill the other team before they killed you, without the tank / CC the DPS would get interrupted and killed, and without the healer key players would die; it is a circular dependency, without the whole everyone fails. It is impossible to say that the DPS was more valuable because they pressed more buttons than the healer, or even that one DPS was more valuable because he stayed on the boss and did more damage while the other(s) took the time to kill / CC the adds.

holdenhamlet

Mark Jacobs needs Paul Barnett to hype up stuff like this.  For example:



Or maybe not- I think half the reason Warhammer tanked so bad is Barnett tuned up the hype level to an impossible level.

LacedOpium

Kudos for those of you who where able to watch that entire video.  A couple of minutes was all I could take before throwing up the white flag.  It is in dire need of a TL;DR .  

Ghavrigg

At 10:15. 

Did you notice that he said in order to incorporate this and other ideas, they're going to likely be shutting down the servers daily to compile all the information and update everything? He said it's not guaranteed, and I hope it can be accomplished without it, but that kinda sucks.

This is immediately a deal breaker depending on how long the servers go down. Not everyone is going to be playing on the same schedule, and it's like he's not expecting the game to be played by anyone at night. Certainly no gamers stay up late at night. 

The idea itself is great, though.

Octagon7711

Sounds like a continuation of the trend of doing more with less.  Some games take away healers.  Now they want to delay gratification and increase trust in devs not making mistakes.  Devs have always said not to worry about the mechanics just go out and have fun and trust them to get the background stuff right without players looking over their shoulders.  Good luck with that.

Sanisar

Like everything else in gaming today the 'xp' data will be parsed and learned over time.  People will figure out exactly how much 'contribution' they need to max out for the day and typically do it efficiently.

That being said it's still a great system.  Everything in the game will contribute in some fashion so you will almost never feel like you are wasting time on anything.  You aren't gonna feel like you are falling behind because you spent a lot of the day crafting for instance.  Then at the end of the day if you are short of max contribution for the day (assuming you care about that) you can cap it off with whatever you think is efficient.

No system is going to be perfect or un-exploitable, but I think this one makes a lot of progress over the naked quest grinds we have now that reward you for doing busy work instead of actually doing what you want in the game.

JamesGoblin

holdenhamlet said:

Mark Jacobs needs Paul Barnett to hype up stuff like this.  For example:



Or maybe not- I think half the reason Warhammer tanked so bad is Barnett tuned up the hype level to an impossible level.

Mark and Paul both did an excellent hyping, it was only when EA (against Mark's wishes and, to be more specific, against his vote) launched that early Beta that his credibility, naturally, took a big hit.

SlyLoK

Torval said:

It seems like one of those ideas that sounds good on paper that doesn't work out like you want.

Back when grinding mobs was the only option having quests made the progression process feel less grindy. This still doesn't remove the grind. It's just repackaged in a way that makes it seem less apparent. After a while, when the honeymoon wears off, it will feel like a grind, because it's still a grind.

There is a lot going on with this game that look good on paper but in the end arent going to work the way they are dreaming.

Wizardry

LacedOpium said:

Kudos for those of you who where able to watch that entire video.  A couple of minutes was all I could take before throwing up the white flag.  It is in dire need of a TL;DR .  

Well i didn't want to be rude about the video itself because i know even myself as i mentioned in the first sentence,that i have a tough time explaining myself.So he is similar to myself in that he went about a long winded approach to explaining a very simple yet not so simple idea.

I notice the other poster understood perfectly and sees it the way i do.

If you are considering a TEAM effort or a group of individuals all acting on behalf of their realm ,they are all EQUALLY as important as the next guy.

I will use a hockey analogy "yeah i love hockey ,shoot me lol".Hockey is a team game 5 versus 5 or 6 including the goalie.Now you could have 4 amazing players and the fifth guy is the worst player in the  league but guess what ,your not winning that game with just the 4 superstars,you need 5 players to win,so even that weak link is a valuable asset,even if he contributes very little.

JamesGoblin

Just by the way, anyone interested can find details about skill progression here. The Q&A videos, naturally, include people asking all the questions asked here - and much more. These are perfectly natural and common reactions.

On the technical level, progress will be communicated to players via Daily Report and Realm News.

And OF COURSE, it can fail or end up mediocre - same as any other of CU's ambitious aspects.

Gyva02

Ghavrigg said:

At 10:15. 

Did you notice that he said in order to incorporate this and other ideas, they're going to likely be shutting down the servers daily to compile all the information and update everything? He said it's not guaranteed, and I hope it can be accomplished without it, but that kinda sucks.

This is immediately a deal breaker depending on how long the servers go down. Not everyone is going to be playing on the same schedule, and it's like he's not expecting the game to be played by anyone at night. Certainly no gamers stay up late at night. 

The idea itself is great, though.

I had found some information yesterday that the down time would be just a couple of minutes, so that is in no way a deal breaker for me.  

Herase

Gyva02 said:

Ghavrigg said:

At 10:15. 

Did you notice that he said in order to incorporate this and other ideas, they're going to likely be shutting down the servers daily to compile all the information and update everything? He said it's not guaranteed, and I hope it can be accomplished without it, but that kinda sucks.

This is immediately a deal breaker depending on how long the servers go down. Not everyone is going to be playing on the same schedule, and it's like he's not expecting the game to be played by anyone at night. Certainly no gamers stay up late at night. 

The idea itself is great, though.

I had found some information yesterday that the down time would be just a couple of minutes, so that is in no way a deal breaker for me.  

Thats alright then, think anything up to an hour is fine tbh

4Renziks

JamesGoblin said:

holdenhamlet said:

Mark Jacobs needs Paul Barnett to hype up stuff like this.  For example:



Or maybe not- I think half the reason Warhammer tanked so bad is Barnett tuned up the hype level to an impossible level.

Mark and Paul both did an excellent hyping, it was only when EA (against Mark's wishes and, to be more specific, against his vote) launched that early Beta that his credibility, naturally, took a big hit.

whens this game coming out?

Gyva02

4Renziks said:

JamesGoblin said:

holdenhamlet said:

Mark Jacobs needs Paul Barnett to hype up stuff like this.  For example:



Or maybe not- I think half the reason Warhammer tanked so bad is Barnett tuned up the hype level to an impossible level.

Mark and Paul both did an excellent hyping, it was only when EA (against Mark's wishes and, to be more specific, against his vote) launched that early Beta that his credibility, naturally, took a big hit.

whens this game coming out?

Here's a link to their videos on YT, Just keep in mind the animations you see are not at all a final product, they just got things up and running enough to make sure there was no lag when the 500+ people battles were taking place, so things look a little goofy in some of the videos. I don't know an exact date but I believe Beta testing is anytime now... 

www.youtube.com/user/CityStateGames/videos

Wizardry

I did not comment on the server downtime because if i remember he said it was not set in stone.

It really makes no sense to me,every game in existence updates on the fly,so i see no logical reason this update will be large enough to warrant downtime.

Then again i could never figure why EQ2 were shutting down servers what seemed almost everyday.My guess with SOE was that their coding was so god awful,they needed a reboot everyday to keep servers stable,memory leaks were common place with SOE.

JamesGoblin

4Renziks said:

JamesGoblin said:

holdenhamlet said:

Mark Jacobs needs Paul Barnett to hype up stuff like this.  For example:



Or maybe not- I think half the reason Warhammer tanked so bad is Barnett tuned up the hype level to an impossible level.

Mark and Paul both did an excellent hyping, it was only when EA (against Mark's wishes and, to be more specific, against his vote) launched that early Beta that his credibility, naturally, took a big hit.

whens this game coming out?

@4Renziks In my opinion, sometime 2017 - first half would be good, first quarter - excellent.

Beta tests should start this March, and even if they delay it - it will likely be a short delay.

Gyva02

If I remember correctly there is no NDA and they are actually encouraging folks to stream Twitch and upload to YouTube. 

Ghavrigg

Gyva02 said:

Ghavrigg said:

At 10:15. 

Did you notice that he said in order to incorporate this and other ideas, they're going to likely be shutting down the servers daily to compile all the information and update everything? He said it's not guaranteed, and I hope it can be accomplished without it, but that kinda sucks.

This is immediately a deal breaker depending on how long the servers go down. Not everyone is going to be playing on the same schedule, and it's like he's not expecting the game to be played by anyone at night. Certainly no gamers stay up late at night. 

The idea itself is great, though.

I had found some information yesterday that the down time would be just a couple of minutes, so that is in no way a deal breaker for me.  

Ok, cool. If it's only like a server reset and you'll be kicked off and back in within 15 mins, then that's no big deal. But if it were going down for an hour or more every day, I could see it being a huge irritant to the playerbase.

Octagon7711

I wonder how this works with server maintenance, that's not a few mins.

therdre

Isn't there some game thats been around for like 10+ years that does server shutdowns daily? I think a few people still play it