I see lots of comments about buggy code, not their fault etc etc, but after one youtube search, its clear that pretty much nobody in this thread has seen the video or knows what actually happened.
For those wondering, the guild actually dumped a bunch of metals and lumber into the sea, in an effort (which turns out, worked) to get the boss to stay in a specific area. The boss didn't glitch, the players took specific steps to ensure the boss would not be movable.
Now....is that an exploit?....considering that its a "sandbox" (i use that term loosely here..), I would chalk that up to "clever use of game mechanics", but it also seems like a member of the guild tried to actually blackmail Trion afterwards, thus the permaban.
Everything I just wrote took all of 45 seconds of internet usage to find out...
This was done in Korea - and it was an exploit there too and guilds got banned.
So why would it be different here?
XL needs to fix the exploit - so until that happens - they are gonna keep banning those who abuse the exploit.
ProTip:
Whenever you do anything to render the most powerful world boss in game completely unable to fight back - it's an exploit and you know it.
Fair enough...
I was more trying to address the fact that nobody in this thread so far has actually researched what took place.
The boss didn't glitch out, and there is no buggy code. The players went out of their way to try and make the boss not move, and they succeeded.
There are multiple posts in this thread stating "the boss glitched out near the end, they had no idea".....that is completely false lol.
1. To employ to the greatest possible advantage: exploit one's talents.
2. To make use of selfishly or unethically:
They exploited the fact that the Leviathan was glitched and could be killed without it attacking them back. It should have been reported via a support ticket or the forums. Instead they chose to go ahead with the kill, get the loot and the "prestige" of NA's first Leviathan kill, and basically boast about the whole thing on the forums. A perma-ban was the right thing to do.
True, was just pointing out if say all of us in the this thread was in a group doing this boss and he glitches I could bet money not one person would speak out and say "Guys? We should just wipe and make a ticket" because, as you said, they had a lot riding on it, you get caught up in the moment.
Not saying they should not be punished, but think perm-ban was a bit of a leap considering, people who actually go out their way to cause misery, exploits and problems get temp bans. think they should have lost all the items or what ever they gained from the kill and banned for a month max imho.
They should have finished the fight and then reported it, I believe that's what Trion suggested should have happened at a minimum.
I agree with that. They shouldn't have boasted and should have just owned up when Trion asked.
Here's the the fight from the guild PoV:
Starts out normal for 15 minutes then bugs out, think if this was intentional they would have from the start.
Starts out normal for 15 minutes then bugs out, think if this was intentional they would have from the start.
They dumped a whole bunch of metals and lumber into the ocean with the specific intention of making this happen. Just because it took 15 min for it to actually work, doesn't change the fact that this was done completely on purpose.
What funny is if you go on AA forums there are actually people arguing that the punishment is to harsh. Saying because AA is a sandbox and people should be able to do what they want.
AA seems to be filled with cheaters and idiots alike.
I will agree with your last statement.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
The whole "it was a bug not an exploit" argument has been around since the beginning and is just as bogus now as it was in 1999. Its usually the argument that exploiters use to justify others, because they figure, hey if we help them get away with it, then next time I do it, we can use that same argument and I will get away with it too.
No idea why people still bother to cheat and exploit and hack in MMOs. Eventually you will get caught. Every ban thread I have ever seen was legit. Players QQing that they got caught and cant believe it happened to them.
In this instance, the guild did alot of research themselves to find the exploit. Then they planned it out, and took the necessary steps to "glitch" out the boss. Just like anyone hacking or cheating, they knew exactly what they had to do to "break" the code, and is the pure definition of exploiting in an MMO. Trion did the right thing, and Im sure there will be more guilds who still try to exploit, and more guilds will QQ when they get caught.
And yes it is a Free title, doesnt mean that they should be allowed to get away with it. In all honesty, Trion should have done IP bans, not just perma ban those accounts. But at least this way if they do decide to restart, they will need to pay alot of money to get back to where they are, and would be supporting Trion, which I think would be even more hilarious.
Meanwhile the entire game and the guilds and people dominating them have been changed by exploits, shortcuts and missteps and Trion did NOTHING.
Early on - yes sadly this happened - but over time as XL has been patching up exploits the game has gotten a lot better about this.
There is no question that AA 2.5 today and what it was on release is a night and day difference.
There's no question that the pool was tainted and servers never rolled back so guilds and players who exploited, or got over early still have the advantages and benefits post 2.5. Saying the above is like giving props to BP for cleaning up their mess, but not being responsible for the environmental blowback the mess caused.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
I am a software developer myself, but i still cant understand how companies like Trion or ArenaNet (karma bug), can punish players for company incompetence (bugs).
Starts out normal for 15 minutes then bugs out, think if this was intentional they would have from the start.
They dumped a whole bunch of metals and lumber into the ocean with the specific intention of making this happen. Just because it took 15 min for it to actually work, doesn't change the fact that this was done completely on purpose.
No glitch here, no buggy code, and no accident
Ah if there is proof of this being the case here, then perma-ban makes sense
Starts out normal for 15 minutes then bugs out, think if this was intentional they would have from the start.
They dumped a whole bunch of metals and lumber into the ocean with the specific intention of making this happen. Just because it took 15 min for it to actually work, doesn't change the fact that this was done completely on purpose.
No glitch here, no buggy code, and no accident
Ah if there is proof of this being the case here, then perma-ban makes sense
Not only that, but someone in the guild reached out to Trion afterwards and tried to blackmail them (offering details of how they did it, in return for in game items and boosts).....how this player doesn't realize that Trion has access to all of the game logs, is beyond me lol.
I am a software developer myself, but i still cant understand how companies like Trion or ArenaNet (karma bug), can punish players for company incompetence (bugs).
Well this is how it is i guess nowdays.
Because theyre trying to have this one major incident fix all the stupid shit they have let go on for the last 2 years. Its a complete over reaction.
If they did place things there that made it unable ot attack them, and if this game wants t be labeled 'sandbox' then I dont see how its wrong. If the placing of items in the area isnt a bug and the boss not being able to walk over them isnt a bug then whats the problem? If they want the boos to be collision free then fix it. Or shut the boss down until it is.
If these guys have really spent thousands upon thousands of 'real life' dollars on those accounts and they dont get them back I expect some major retaliation of some kind. Thats just how i t goes. Since the guy already (allegedly) tried to blackmail them which (allegedly) caused the ban in the first place I would expect it to be something pretty harsh.
Makes for good drama I am sure and if suddenly Archeage is shut down for a few days we know what happened to them.
I am a software developer myself, but i still cant understand how companies like Trion or ArenaNet (karma bug), can punish players for company incompetence (bugs).
Well this is how it is i guess nowdays.
Trion has no control over the coding of the game. They get the build from XL games and implement it for their NA/EU published version of the game. If the coding is buggy, it's XL's fault. That being said, no game is perfect, there's always going to be issues. Taking advantage of one of those inevitable issues, or going out of the way to trigger one, is an exploit, plain and simple.
1. To employ to the greatest possible advantage: exploit one's talents.
2. To make use of selfishly or unethically:
They exploited the fact that the Leviathan was glitched and could be killed without it attacking them back. It should have been reported via a support ticket or the forums. Instead they chose to go ahead with the kill, get the loot and the "prestige" of NA's first Leviathan kill, and basically boast about the whole thing on the forums. A perma-ban was the right thing to do.
True, was just pointing out if say all of us in the this thread was in a group doing this boss and he glitches I could bet money not one person would speak out and say "Guys? We should just wipe and make a ticket" because, as you said, they had a lot riding on it, you get caught up in the moment.
Not saying they should not be punished, but think perm-ban was a bit of a leap considering, people who actually go out their way to cause misery, exploits and problems get temp bans. think they should have lost all the items or what ever they gained from the kill and banned for a month max imho.
A guild is only as good as its leader/s. You may be right that the common soldier in the guild may have felt hard-pressed to report the glitch but the guild leader (or leaders) should of had enough integrity to have made the decision to do so. That is what leadership is all about, and that is a guild leader worth following and a guild worth being a part of. If you, as a common soldier, observe misconduct in your guild and the guild leader is present and does nothing to rectify that misconduct, and you stay and simply turn a blind eye to that misconduct, then you should be punished for the act just the same. It's called being an accomplice to the misconduct/crime/act. That is not to say that one can not have a pirate mentally and condone such acts, it merely points out the justice behind the statement "if you are willing to commit the crime, be prepared to do the time."
What funny is if you go on AA forums there are actually people arguing that the punishment is to harsh. Saying because AA is a sandbox and people should be able to do what they want.
AA seems to be filled with cheaters and idiots alike.
Agreed. Crap community for sure. I remember jerks blocking bridges with their carts, or passages with their boats just to troll. These were non-pvp areas so you could not do anything about it. Heard the same thing...."it's a sandbox!" crap.
I am a software developer myself, but i still cant understand how companies like Trion or ArenaNet (karma bug), can punish players for company incompetence (bugs).
Well this is how it is i guess nowdays.
Since the guy already (allegedly) tried to blackmail them which (allegedly) caused the ban in the first place I would expect it to be something pretty harsh.
You can stop typing "allegedly", this info came directly from Trion.
I am a software developer myself, but i still cant understand how companies like Trion or ArenaNet (karma bug), can punish players for company incompetence (bugs).
Well this is how it is i guess nowdays.
Trion has no control over the coding of the game. They get the build from XL games and implement it for their NA/EU published version of the game. If the coding is buggy, it's XL's fault. That being said, no game is perfect, there's always going to be issues. Taking advantage of one of those inevitable issues, or going out of the way to trigger one, is an exploit, plain and simple.
It doesn't change the fact that its still a company problem not players. Maybe Trion should force XL Games to better QA their games?
It doesn't change the fact that its still a company problem not players. Maybe Trion should force XL Games to better QA their games?
Which brings us back to "no game is perfect, there's always going to be issues. Taking advantage of one of those inevitable issues, or going out of the way to trigger one, is an exploit, plain and simple." A game developer can't test for every possible bug, glitch, dupe, etc in a game. When a player comes across one of those things, and decides to exploit it rather than report it, it then becomes a bannable offense. This has been the case for quite some time now.
I am a software developer myself, but i still cant understand how companies like Trion or ArenaNet (karma bug), can punish players for company incompetence (bugs).
Well this is how it is i guess nowdays.
Trion has no control over the coding of the game. They get the build from XL games and implement it for their NA/EU published version of the game. If the coding is buggy, it's XL's fault. That being said, no game is perfect, there's always going to be issues. Taking advantage of one of those inevitable issues, or going out of the way to trigger one, is an exploit, plain and simple.
It doesn't change the fact that its still a company problem not players. Maybe Trion should force XL Games to better QA their games?
In the mean time, players are expected to not to take advantage of the bugs. It's Trion/XL's game and that's their expectation of players.
I usually dislike analogies in these cases, but following your line of thinking let me just ask this, if you try to withdraw $20 from an ATM machine and it gives you $300 instead, what should you do? Is it the bank's fault for not maintaining a perfectly working ATM? And therefore you keep the money? Or is it your responsibility to return the difference and report the error?
I'll tell you what the courts in the USA would say, they would say if you tried to keep it and not report it that would be theft.
I am afraid Your analogy is missed in that case, sice noone lost anything because of the bug that this guild took advantage of.
If that bug took away 300$ from Trion account i would agree
I am a software developer myself, but i still cant understand how companies like Trion or ArenaNet (karma bug), can punish players for company incompetence (bugs).
Well this is how it is i guess nowdays.
Trion has no control over the coding of the game. They get the build from XL games and implement it for their NA/EU published version of the game. If the coding is buggy, it's XL's fault. That being said, no game is perfect, there's always going to be issues. Taking advantage of one of those inevitable issues, or going out of the way to trigger one, is an exploit, plain and simple.
It doesn't change the fact that its still a company problem not players. Maybe Trion should force XL Games to better QA their games?
It doesnt wotk that way .. You see XL games is the Pimp , and Trion is.......... well .... just one of der Ho's
I have no problem with the action taken by Trion. It does, however, come across as being a bit hypocritical. Throughout their implementation of the game they have literally encouraged and condoned a-hole behavior by its players. It seems a bit hypocritical to then punish people for literally the same type of behavior they have been condoning and encouraging. Personally, I think there is a very thin line between the actions taken by players in this scenario and players intentional blocking roads preventing other players from crossing them, and often times pillaging their items in the process.
I know there is a distinction in there somewhere, but an argument could be made that there really is no difference at all from blocking players from crossing a bridge, which is the only means to get from point A to point B, and dropping items into an ocean area that allows for trapping and limited movement by a giant fish. When viewing the acts from and impartial and objective PoV, an argument could be made that the latter is just as readily conceivable as the former. Simply put, if you don't want this type of exploitation to occur, then the logical action to take is to make the necessary corrections that would prevent this type of exploitation possible.
Trion Worlds has made a post on the official ArcheAge forums regarding a server first kill of Leviathan boss by the guild called "Rage Quit". As a result of taking advantage of the exploit, all members participating in the event got permanently banned, the guild has been disbanded and all loot gained has been removed from the world.
The poor Rage Quit guild never got the chance to rage quit.
That they let players block roads but not this is hilarious.
From the video and the long thread on the ArchAge it was the bunch of players they were fighting at the time that went running to the forums crying about it.
It was a good video and doesn't look like the boss is particularly interesting to fight other than the PVP around it anyway.
Comments
Fair enough...
I was more trying to address the fact that nobody in this thread so far has actually researched what took place.
The boss didn't glitch out, and there is no buggy code. The players went out of their way to try and make the boss not move, and they succeeded.
There are multiple posts in this thread stating "the boss glitched out near the end, they had no idea".....that is completely false lol.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Here's the the fight from the guild PoV:
Starts out normal for 15 minutes then bugs out, think if this was intentional they would have from the start.
No glitch here, no buggy code, and no accident
I will agree with your last statement.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
No idea why people still bother to cheat and exploit and hack in MMOs. Eventually you will get caught. Every ban thread I have ever seen was legit. Players QQing that they got caught and cant believe it happened to them.
In this instance, the guild did alot of research themselves to find the exploit. Then they planned it out, and took the necessary steps to "glitch" out the boss. Just like anyone hacking or cheating, they knew exactly what they had to do to "break" the code, and is the pure definition of exploiting in an MMO. Trion did the right thing, and Im sure there will be more guilds who still try to exploit, and more guilds will QQ when they get caught.
And yes it is a Free title, doesnt mean that they should be allowed to get away with it. In all honesty, Trion should have done IP bans, not just perma ban those accounts. But at least this way if they do decide to restart, they will need to pay alot of money to get back to where they are, and would be supporting Trion, which I think would be even more hilarious.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You cant call me out on anything.
I did not say the ban would get reversed next week.
Honestly I dont care what happens in this game. It was dead to me a long time ago.
Well this is how it is i guess nowdays.
If they did place things there that made it unable ot attack them, and if this game wants t be labeled 'sandbox' then I dont see how its wrong. If the placing of items in the area isnt a bug and the boss not being able to walk over them isnt a bug then whats the problem? If they want the boos to be collision free then fix it. Or shut the boss down until it is.
If these guys have really spent thousands upon thousands of 'real life' dollars on those accounts and they dont get them back I expect some major retaliation of some kind. Thats just how i t goes. Since the guy already (allegedly) tried to blackmail them which (allegedly) caused the ban in the first place I would expect it to be something pretty harsh.
Makes for good drama I am sure and if suddenly Archeage is shut down for a few days we know what happened to them.
A guild is only as good as its leader/s. You may be right that the common soldier in the guild may have felt hard-pressed to report the glitch but the guild leader (or leaders) should of had enough integrity to have made the decision to do so. That is what leadership is all about, and that is a guild leader worth following and a guild worth being a part of. If you, as a common soldier, observe misconduct in your guild and the guild leader is present and does nothing to rectify that misconduct, and you stay and simply turn a blind eye to that misconduct, then you should be punished for the act just the same. It's called being an accomplice to the misconduct/crime/act. That is not to say that one can not have a pirate mentally and condone such acts, it merely points out the justice behind the statement "if you are willing to commit the crime, be prepared to do the time."
I am so good, I backstabbed your face!
If that bug took away 300$ from Trion account i would agree
I have no problem with the action taken by Trion. It does, however, come across as being a bit hypocritical. Throughout their implementation of the game they have literally encouraged and condoned a-hole behavior by its players. It seems a bit hypocritical to then punish people for literally the same type of behavior they have been condoning and encouraging. Personally, I think there is a very thin line between the actions taken by players in this scenario and players intentional blocking roads preventing other players from crossing them, and often times pillaging their items in the process.
I know there is a distinction in there somewhere, but an argument could be made that there really is no difference at all from blocking players from crossing a bridge, which is the only means to get from point A to point B, and dropping items into an ocean area that allows for trapping and limited movement by a giant fish. When viewing the acts from and impartial and objective PoV, an argument could be made that the latter is just as readily conceivable as the former. Simply put, if you don't want this type of exploitation to occur, then the logical action to take is to make the necessary corrections that would prevent this type of exploitation possible.
From the video and the long thread on the ArchAge it was the bunch of players they were fighting at the time that went running to the forums crying about it.
It was a good video and doesn't look like the boss is particularly interesting to fight other than the PVP around it anyway.