If you look at certain things considered luxuries in the east you'll see a marked increase in sales over the last few years. Cars, beef, fashion etc, all commanding high prices for a relatively new "middle class" in eastern countries. A lot of this is down to the rise of technology companies and the wages they can pay.
It's this new strata of society that is showing their wealth who are driving these things and gaming is part of it. Showing your affluence by what you wear, what you drive, what you eat and now what you play.
@blueturtle13: what is the situation with RMT in asia and S.-Korea in particular? IS it as bad as it is in the west?
Well since the scandal of 11 Korean gamers that were sending money to China through gold farming the Ministry of Culture banned virtual good trading. They also outlawed systems that automate processes. Not unlike a company banning people for using bots the Country itself has made it illegal.
I see. Apparently asian tolerance for RMT is far lower than in the West. I also remember a forum post somewhere from a guy that played FFXIV JAP. He mentioned there was (almost) no RMT spam.
If you look at certain things considered luxuries in the east you'll see a marked increase in sales over the last few years. Cars, beef, fashion etc, all commanding high prices for a relatively new "middle class" in eastern countries. A lot of this is down to the rise of technology companies and the wages they can pay.
It's this new strata of society that is showing their wealth who are driving these things and gaming is part of it. Showing your affluence by what you wear, what you drive, what you eat and now what you play.
not just them.
Didn't you read that some Eve player spent $28k to buy 20 years worth of skill points? His handle is Ironbank so I assume he is a western player.
If you look at certain things considered luxuries in the east you'll see a marked increase in sales over the last few years. Cars, beef, fashion etc, all commanding high prices for a relatively new "middle class" in eastern countries. A lot of this is down to the rise of technology companies and the wages they can pay.
It's this new strata of society that is showing their wealth who are driving these things and gaming is part of it. Showing your affluence by what you wear, what you drive, what you eat and now what you play.
not just them.
Didn't you read that some Eve player spent $28k to buy 20 years worth of skill points? His handle is Ironbank so I assume he is a western player.
That is some big western whale.
Yeah I read about that, just gobsmacked. I can think of so many things I'd rather spend 28k on. Shit, I can think of plenty of stuff I'd rather spend 100 quid on never mind 28k.
If you look at certain things considered luxuries in the east you'll see a marked increase in sales over the last few years. Cars, beef, fashion etc, all commanding high prices for a relatively new "middle class" in eastern countries. A lot of this is down to the rise of technology companies and the wages they can pay.
It's this new strata of society that is showing their wealth who are driving these things and gaming is part of it. Showing your affluence by what you wear, what you drive, what you eat and now what you play.
not just them.
Didn't you read that some Eve player spent $28k to buy 20 years worth of skill points? His handle is Ironbank so I assume he is a western player.
That is some big western whale.
Yeah I read about that, just gobsmacked. I can think of so many things I'd rather spend 28k on. Shit, I can think of plenty of stuff I'd rather spend 100 quid on never mind 28k.
I agree. 28k can get you a new car. A new boat.
But again, while I won't spend that kind of money on a game ... this guy did, and he is not alone. I believe, in the old days, some EQ account can fetch up to similar kind of money on ebay.
Of course I am taking this personal. Have you not read the slander towards Asians and our games here? It is borderline racist. Not directing it at you but you have not been truthful in saying Western games cost more money to make than Asian ones. That is not true. Based off of the economy and payscale per country it is the same.
It is not borderline racism, it is racism.
"Asian" is neither an ethnicity nor a race. Racism refers to race or ethnicity, since neither hold true in this case, it is per definition not racism.
But again, while I won't spend that kind of money on a game ... this guy did, and he is not alone. I believe, in the old days, some EQ account can fetch up to similar kind of money on ebay.
Of course I am taking this personal. Have you not read the slander towards Asians and our games here? It is borderline racist. Not directing it at you but you have not been truthful in saying Western games cost more money to make than Asian ones. That is not true. Based off of the economy and payscale per country it is the same.
It is not borderline racism, it is racism.
"Asian" is neither an ethnicity nor a race. Racism refers to race or ethnicity, since neither hold true in this case, it is per definition not racism.
Well, that happened, and it was dumb enough to make my head hurt.
I haven't really read anything racist in this whole thread.
What is true, is that many Western players have an extremely negative view towards MMO that come from certain regions in the world. Korean and Chinese MMO have turned nickel-and-diming players into art form. The negative view Western players hold towards these MMO is not a prejudice, it's based on experience with these products.
It's not a stereotype about Asian games either. I don't tend to hear similar complaints towards Japanese games, I don't hear anyone complaining about Final Fantasy. The F2P games with very aggressive cash shop, are almost exclusively coming from Korea, and you can't blame Western players that they have become increasingly apprehensive about games from that specific region.
Of course I am taking this personal. Have you not read the slander towards Asians and our games here? It is borderline racist. Not directing it at you but you have not been truthful in saying Western games cost more money to make than Asian ones. That is not true. Based off of the economy and payscale per country it is the same.
It is not borderline racism, it is racism.
"Asian" is neither an ethnicity nor a race. Racism refers to race or ethnicity, since neither hold true in this case, it is per definition not racism.
Actually if you looked at the context that statement was made for you would have seen that slander to Koreans were mentioned as well as Asians as a whole. Many of us here on this forum are Korean or Asian and take offense to some of the statements that were made. So yes it was the case. Read everything in the thread before you walk into a room mid conversation and make statements about it.
Sure, several of the comments were prejudiced in a negative manner and one ought to avoid from making such comments and believing in some comments.
Comments about Koreans are definitely racist if they were referring to the ethnicity rather than the country "South Korea". If they refer to South Korea as a country, it is not racist.
That said a comment that isn't racist can be ethically worse than a comment that is, and vice versa.
"Asian" is neither an ethnicity nor a race. Racism refers to race or ethnicity, since neither hold true in this case, it is per definition not racism.
Orly? In that case, what do you think race is...?
By "race" one usually refers to the old categorization of humans: in that categorization, we have mongoloids, caucasoids and negroids. Far from all Asians are mongoloids.
By "race" one usually refers to the old categorization of humans: in that categorization, we have mongoloids, caucasoids and negroids. Far from all Asians are mongoloids.
Yeah, usually in 1850... Any more tips on how to speak or behave in 19th century?
By "race" one usually refers to the old categorization of humans: in that categorization, we have mongoloids, caucasoids and negroids. Far from all Asians are mongoloids.
Yeah, usually in 1850...
Which is why "racism" nowadays usually refers to "ethnicity". The old classification system does matter in the sense that there are people that still use it. To understand them, one needs to know the classification.
Which is why "racism" nowadays usually refers to "ethnicity". The old classification system does matter in the sense that there are people that still use it. To understand them, one needs to know the classification.
No, people don't use it the way you suggest, hence my comment.
Which is why "racism" nowadays usually refers to "ethnicity". The old classification system does matter in the sense that there are people that still use it. To understand them, one needs to know the classification.
No, you just use obsolete, no longer used usage of the term...
I stated that no matter if you refer to "race" or "ethnicity", "asian" does not classify as racism, because "asian" is not a race as in the old classification and it is not an ethnicity.
Those are two different definitions and in both cases, "Asian" would not be correct.
Wikipedia is not the best source in the world, but in this case, like in many cases, it matches how I have known the concept:
"Racism consists of ideologies and practices that seek to justify or cause the unequal distribution of privileges or rights among groups that are conceptualized as racially or ethnically different." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism
You are welcome to show how it can be racism in the case of "Asian" and which definition you use.
Which is why "racism" nowadays usually refers to "ethnicity".
Term "asian" does refer to race or ethnicity - a social group(with distinct physical characteristics). Make your pick, it will fit either category depending on any modern usage of the term you prefer, they are often one and the same as you pointed out yourself....
As far as the eastern players understanding of pay to win. Its simple. Imagine a system when a few bucks gets you some real power you can feel, without the insanely massive gaps in power due to it being diminishing returns. Spend that $10 and feel it, spend $1000 and feel somewhat the same as someone who spent $100 without being god mode.
Now imagine the game is sold to be published in NA./EU by Webzen or whatever perma fail state f2p publisher. Now imagine slider bars on cost of items and power of items and a slider bar for diminishing returns.
Now imagine Webzen takes that game from korea/china with pay to win done minimally and inexpensively, jack the slider to max on cost, turns diminishing returns to 0, and turns down the slider bar for power of upgrades to 1.
So now a game that had a majority of Asian players spending the equivalent of a lunch out on a power boost they can feel, without the ability to really get carried away, has been bastardized by the Western publisher who just wants a quick buck.
Its sort of seen over there that if you have the money you pay for the game and get a lot in return for paying.
Over here in America, no one says anything about the myriad of pay to win mobile games. The mobile games that do well are, if we imagine our slider bars for power/cost/diminishing returns...set at a cheap cost for a decent return in power that cant really get carried away unless you spend more than anyone is willing to pay and at that point its a very slight gain.
I'm more inclined to spend money if I'm going to feel power from it rather than buying a shortcut or a stupid hat or pet...especially if $5 gets me decent bang for the buck vs the $30 a silly deco pet would cost me in a mmorpg ported over here.
I remember waaay back in the day having Koreans who played rappelz look at our store, do the currency conversion and go "i wouldn't spend a single dollar in this store" then open his inventory to show off all the stuff he got for the equivalent of $20, which I think would have cost $200 over here. I remember the post stating "why are these upgrades expensive, they are suppose to fail and do..."
Did anyone, in fact, verify with "Easterner's" that they, in fact, don't mind pay to win aspects to their games? Or did the OP just project that into our minds as an unverified "no-brainer" assumption?
I mean seriously. We jump right onto acting like we know the answers without ever actually verifying that the question being asked is valid.
My best guess is that Easterner's are just like Westerner's in the way that those of us who have it to spend spend money frivolously and those of us who don't have it to spend try to hold on to our money a little more. And that the developers of these games have probably found in that, even with that constant being true, these kinds of games can still make more than enough money, for some period of time at least, to make them profitable endeavors. Thus the releases in Korea, Russia, the US, and pretty much anywhere they can have them released.
It's like a traveling carnival or card game. It pops into town, takes as much money as it can, and then rolls out in time for the next to do the same. We keep feeding it new marks because, by nature, older players move on and younger, uninformed players, come in.
But does anyone really like it? I'm not sure. I would venture a guess of no.
Comments
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
It's this new strata of society that is showing their wealth who are driving these things and gaming is part of it. Showing your affluence by what you wear, what you drive, what you eat and now what you play.
http://nobodyplaysgames.com/forums/index.php?/topic/863-japanese-vs-english-servers-in-ffxiv-part-1/
It's kind of funny then that asians get the "p2w" tag while RMT seems to be a bigger problem in the west.
Didn't you read that some Eve player spent $28k to buy 20 years worth of skill points? His handle is Ironbank so I assume he is a western player.
That is some big western whale.
But again, while I won't spend that kind of money on a game ... this guy did, and he is not alone. I believe, in the old days, some EQ account can fetch up to similar kind of money on ebay.
Whales are alive and well in gaming.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Well, that happened, and it was dumb enough to make my head hurt.
What is true, is that many Western players have an extremely negative view towards MMO that come from certain regions in the world. Korean and Chinese MMO have turned nickel-and-diming players into art form. The negative view Western players hold towards these MMO is not a prejudice, it's based on experience with these products.
It's not a stereotype about Asian games either. I don't tend to hear similar complaints towards Japanese games, I don't hear anyone complaining about Final Fantasy. The F2P games with very aggressive cash shop, are almost exclusively coming from Korea, and you can't blame Western players that they have become increasingly apprehensive about games from that specific region.
Comments about Koreans are definitely racist if they were referring to the ethnicity rather than the country "South Korea". If they refer to South Korea as a country, it is not racist.
That said a comment that isn't racist can be ethically worse than a comment that is, and vice versa.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
You are even contradicting yourself...
Those are two different definitions and in both cases, "Asian" would not be correct.
Wikipedia is not the best source in the world, but in this case, like in many cases, it matches how I have known the concept:
"Racism consists of ideologies and practices that seek to justify or cause the unequal distribution of privileges or rights among groups that are conceptualized as racially or ethnically different."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism
You are welcome to show how it can be racism in the case of "Asian" and which definition you use.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
At the same time:
Term "asian" does refer to race or ethnicity - a social group(with distinct physical characteristics). Make your pick, it will fit either category depending on any modern usage of the term you prefer, they are often one and the same as you pointed out yourself....
As far as the eastern players understanding of pay to win. Its simple. Imagine a system when a few bucks gets you some real power you can feel, without the insanely massive gaps in power due to it being diminishing returns. Spend that $10 and feel it, spend $1000 and feel somewhat the same as someone who spent $100 without being god mode.
Now imagine the game is sold to be published in NA./EU by Webzen or whatever perma fail state f2p publisher. Now imagine slider bars on cost of items and power of items and a slider bar for diminishing returns.
Now imagine Webzen takes that game from korea/china with pay to win done minimally and inexpensively, jack the slider to max on cost, turns diminishing returns to 0, and turns down the slider bar for power of upgrades to 1.
So now a game that had a majority of Asian players spending the equivalent of a lunch out on a power boost they can feel, without the ability to really get carried away, has been bastardized by the Western publisher who just wants a quick buck.
Its sort of seen over there that if you have the money you pay for the game and get a lot in return for paying.
Over here in America, no one says anything about the myriad of pay to win mobile games. The mobile games that do well are, if we imagine our slider bars for power/cost/diminishing returns...set at a cheap cost for a decent return in power that cant really get carried away unless you spend more than anyone is willing to pay and at that point its a very slight gain.
I'm more inclined to spend money if I'm going to feel power from it rather than buying a shortcut or a stupid hat or pet...especially if $5 gets me decent bang for the buck vs the $30 a silly deco pet would cost me in a mmorpg ported over here.
I remember waaay back in the day having Koreans who played rappelz look at our store, do the currency conversion and go "i wouldn't spend a single dollar in this store" then open his inventory to show off all the stuff he got for the equivalent of $20, which I think would have cost $200 over here. I remember the post stating "why are these upgrades expensive, they are suppose to fail and do..."
I mean seriously. We jump right onto acting like we know the answers without ever actually verifying that the question being asked is valid.
My best guess is that Easterner's are just like Westerner's in the way that those of us who have it to spend spend money frivolously and those of us who don't have it to spend try to hold on to our money a little more. And that the developers of these games have probably found in that, even with that constant being true, these kinds of games can still make more than enough money, for some period of time at least, to make them profitable endeavors. Thus the releases in Korea, Russia, the US, and pretty much anywhere they can have them released.
It's like a traveling carnival or card game. It pops into town, takes as much money as it can, and then rolls out in time for the next to do the same. We keep feeding it new marks because, by nature, older players move on and younger, uninformed players, come in.
But does anyone really like it? I'm not sure. I would venture a guess of no.