Your pick between these 3 combat styles. FPS/TPS, ESO/TERA, TAB TARGETING (Eq, WoW)

Kilrain

Konfess said:

The thing that pissed me off:
1. Twitch Action Combat
2. Twitch Action Combat+
3. RPG Combat

If you had said "2. Twitch Action Combat+ (Wildstar, GW2)."  I wonder then how many would have voted for it.  They would have been too busy arguing that Wildstar and GW2 don't have the same combat style.  The point is, this is an overly Biased poll.  Serving no purpose other than to wallow in the filth of action combat.

Allow me to explain the difference.  Action combat is a system for low density combat (ie 32 vs 32), has more to do with hardware and lag than skill.  RPG combat is a system for high density combat (ie 128 vs 128), has little effect from hardware or lag.  Let's skill actual come into play.

I know what you are going to say.  Well just upgrade the server hardware by two or three units of magnitude.  That's what a distributed system is for, just add two or three more servers to the zone.  This makes Action combat the more expensive system to implement, potentially tripling the cost.

First you are automatically making some assumption that I'm referring to PVP. I'm not, it literally doesn't matter. It's a question on whether you prefer to control your character in "combat" in one way or another.

Second, the difference between Soft Target combat (ESO, Tera and as you say Wildstar, GW2) and Twitch combat is HUGE. Soft targeting combat requires extremely little almost zero twitch ability. Soft target, option number 2 is identical to targeted (tab targeting) option number 3 with one exception, you point your crosshair at (near) something and it's "targeted' instead of clicking on it. Don't believe me? Grab an archer and shoot a moving target. You're still relying on RNG and the arrow will still follow the target. In twitch combat you shoot an arrow and it does not follow the target, it goes where you point and if the target moves you are shit out of luck.

SomethingUnusual

Konfess said:

The thing that pissed me off:
1. Twitch Action Combat
2. Twitch Action Combat+
3. RPG Combat

If you had said "2. Twitch Action Combat+ (Wildstar, GW2)."  I wonder then how many would have voted for it.  They would have been too busy arguing that Wildstar and GW2 don't have the same combat style.  The point is, this is an overly Biased poll.  Serving no purpose other than to wallow in the filth of action combat.

Allow me to explain the difference.  Action combat is a system for low density combat (ie 32 vs 32), has more to do with hardware and lag than skill.  RPG combat is a system for high density combat (ie 128 vs 128), has little effect from hardware or lag.  Let's skill actual come into play.

I know what you are going to say.  Well just upgrade the server hardware by two or three units of magnitude.  That's what a distributed system is for, just add two or three more servers to the zone.  This makes Action combat the more expensive system to implement, potentially tripling the cost.

I think he hit it pretty spot on... What bias are you talking about? Wildstar is NOT twitch combat at all, even though the enemy is in your telegraph or vice versa there is "deflect" etc, same with Guild Wars 2 as you mention. They are soft-target, end of story. The examples provided for "twitch" are spot on, If the enemy is hit, they are hit, period, no "evade" stats or "chance to hit."

TERA probably should be a middle ground there, as it is kind of a mix of twitch and soft-target.

Alders

While i prefer tab targeting, i have no issue with the other options as far as targeting goes.

I know this is a different topic but i think many players look at combat styles and combine them with group dynamics when thinking about this question. I know i do.

My main issue is when dodges replace tanks and healers. This tends to happen with more action combat for obvious reasons. Group play is the most important feature to me as far as combat is concerned and i feel it lacks tremendously with the other options.

Warlyx

while i enjoy tera style combat....i prefer the old Tab target.... FPS are "ok" if the game is really fun but after 2 weeks i get bored

Kilrain

Alders said:

My main issue is when dodges replace tanks and healers. This tends to happen with more action combat for obvious reasons. Group play is the most important feature to me as far as combat is concerned and i feel it lacks tremendously with the other options.

I agree and is one of the things I miss when playing a twitch combat game. Sure teamwork still means something (Darkfall is a good example) but it's different and there are fewer .. um.. roles if you will in a game like Darkfall. 

Something I dislike about tab games, however, is the over abundance of skills and hotbars. I think it gets seriously overcrowded and to me obnoxious. I actually like the way EQ did it with the spell bar and only able to have what, 5 memorized at a time (hey, it was a long time ago).

Jimmy562

I still prefer the full tab targeting. I find most action combat MMO's lack the responsiveness of the traditional tab target games.

nariusseldon

none ... i pick d3 combat. 

laserit

What's wrong with liking all 3?

sunandshadow

Favorite: Tactical turn-based combat (like Dofus, Disgaea...)

2nd: Arcade with jumping, stealth, some kind of bite/scratch/kick, and optionally magic.  This is sort of like Tera, though really I am thinking of games like Tokyo Jungle...

3rd: Deck-building, card-collecting TCG combat.  Or cards/miniatures hybrid like Pox Nora.

4th: I really liked the archery in Skyrim, it's pretty much the only first-person combat I've ever liked, but due to the fact that slowing down time is integral to the archery system I suspect it can't work the same way in ESO.  I haven't played ESO though.

5th: Any standard 3rd person MMO combat with spellbars and cooldowns, though I prefer targeting to be tab or automatic rather than manual.

Sovrath

How is number 1 different from two of the games in number two?

Tera and ESO are way different than Age of conan and a lot more similar to Darkfall as far as having to aim. Also ESO has first and third person.

whisperwynd

 Depends on the game and how it wants you to fight. I have no preference to the mechanics of 'how' as long as it fluid and engaging to me.

Kilrain

Sovrath said:

How is number 1 different from two of the games in number two?

Tera and ESO are way different than Age of conan and a lot more similar to Darkfall as far as having to aim. Also ESO has first and third person.

The view has nothing to do with it. It was a reference to the combat style in typical first and third person shooters... Aka twitch. Eso and Tera are nothing like darkfall. AoC doesn't have aiming, granted but it's a tad closer to soft targeting than pure tab. I can see though that AOC should have been placed under tab targeting. 

Cecropia

Kilrain said:

Sovrath said:

How is number 1 different from two of the games in number two?

Tera and ESO are way different than Age of conan and a lot more similar to Darkfall as far as having to aim. Also ESO has first and third person.

The view has nothing to do with it. It was a reference to the combat style in typical first and third person shooters... Aka twitch. Eso and Tera are nothing like darkfall. AoC doesn't have aiming, granted but it's a tad closer to soft targeting than pure tab. I can see though that AOC should have been placed under tab targeting. 

Yeah, I remember how excited I was before I first fired up Tera thinking I was going to get a bit of the Darkfall treatment. Man, was I totally off on that one, lol.

Sovrath

Kilrain said:

Sovrath said:

How is number 1 different from two of the games in number two?

Tera and ESO are way different than Age of conan and a lot more similar to Darkfall as far as having to aim. Also ESO has first and third person.

The view has nothing to do with it. It was a reference to the combat style in typical first and third person shooters... Aka twitch. Eso and Tera are nothing like darkfall. AoC doesn't have aiming, granted but it's a tad closer to soft targeting than pure tab. I can see though that AOC should have been placed under tab targeting. 

You aim in both do you not? I think that's what the point of the poll is supposed to be.

When I played darkfall I aimed and I hit. When I played Tera I aimed and I hit. However, I think you are right about ESO, I forgot that it's more a soft target game when it comes to range.

Mardukk

Sovrath said:

Kilrain said:

Sovrath said:

How is number 1 different from two of the games in number two?

Tera and ESO are way different than Age of conan and a lot more similar to Darkfall as far as having to aim. Also ESO has first and third person.

The view has nothing to do with it. It was a reference to the combat style in typical first and third person shooters... Aka twitch. Eso and Tera are nothing like darkfall. AoC doesn't have aiming, granted but it's a tad closer to soft targeting than pure tab. I can see though that AOC should have been placed under tab targeting. 

You aim in both do you not? I think that's what the point of the poll is supposed to be.

When I played darkfall I aimed and I hit. When I played Tera I aimed and I hit. However, I think you are right about ESO, I forgot that it's more a soft target game when it comes to range.

I think TERA is a bit different than Darkfall but more like Darkfall than ESO.  ESO definitely has a "targeting" system.  I however, couldn't stand the rooting in TERA, among other things that isn't in Darkfall.  I think TERA and Darkfall are too different to add into the same category.

This all coming from someone that was slaughtered mercilessly in DFUW due to the high skill ceiling.  It was just so refreshing aiming an arrow and having it actually go where you aim it and miss if I missed the shot. 

rojoArcueid

i voted full tab targetting because you chose the worst action combat (tera) to describe option #2. If you had said something like B&S or BDO then i would have voted for that. Ill take anything before Tera's combat (except for Wildstar).

Kilrain

Sovrath said:

Kilrain said:

Sovrath said:

How is number 1 different from two of the games in number two?

Tera and ESO are way different than Age of conan and a lot more similar to Darkfall as far as having to aim. Also ESO has first and third person.

The view has nothing to do with it. It was a reference to the combat style in typical first and third person shooters... Aka twitch. Eso and Tera are nothing like darkfall. AoC doesn't have aiming, granted but it's a tad closer to soft targeting than pure tab. I can see though that AOC should have been placed under tab targeting. 

You aim in both do you not? I think that's what the point of the poll is supposed to be.

When I played darkfall I aimed and I hit. When I played Tera I aimed and I hit. However, I think you are right about ESO, I forgot that it's more a soft target game when it comes to range.

In Tera you aim at a target and fire. If the enemy moves before the projectile gets there it will follow the target and the typical targeting algorithm takes over to determine if you hit. This is soft targeting or in other words fake twitch combat. In darkfall you aim and fire and if your enemy moves the projectile does not and you miss. No algorithm determines the outcome. 

FlyByKnight

I don't like tab targetting in most cases.  Projectiles curving and hitting me, or projectiles hitting me well after I'm around a corner or behind an object is completely annoying.

At the same time I think FPS/twitch combat in MMORPGs is absolutely obnoxious. It may not be the feature but the games I've seen try to execute it have been miserable.

I like stylized 3rd person action targetting. I don't like soft targetting either.

Quizzical

Kilrain said:

Shodanas said:

The way you present it people may believe that WoW, EQ, SWTOR and the likes only feature tab targeting, which can't be further from the truth.

Any half decent player in the aforementioned games uses the mouse to pick his targets.

It's a title given to that style of combat. Does not mean a tab button is even required at all. I don't know what else to call it.

Perhaps better list look would be something like: 

Twitch combat > what I referred to here as fps/tps because that is the typical style of combat for a fps or tps shooter.

Soft Target - Like ESO, Tera where you aim at your target rather than click it prior to casting/shooting.

Target - where you can click to target and/or tab through your available targets

Then there are completely different mechanics like turn based that I didn't include and after thinking about it, don't feel bad for not including because it's a completely different mechanic all together. Different enough that trying to convert a game would be impossible.
Switching from targeted to soft targeted and back is not difficult at all as they are fundamentally exactly the same thing. Literally the only difference is you either click a target to select where your attack is aimed or you point at it. The actual action that is take is the same.
Switching to/from twitch is a bit more difficult, mostly on the NPC side of things, but switching any of these to a turned based would literally change everything about it. So in that regard I kind of think of these three, twitch, soft target, target, as being 3 variations of action combat, and that's what I'm really focusing on in this poll. Which form of Action combat do you prefer.

It sounds like you intended to ask what sort of targeting people prefer in combat, not what sort of combat people prefer.  The former is a part of the latter, but far from being the whole thing.  For example, Guild Wars 2 and WoW are both mostly tab targeting, while Neverwinter is not, but Guild Wars 2's combat is closer to Neverwinter than it is to WoW.  Wakfu and Wizard 101 let you choose your targets without having to aim, like WoW does, but their fully turn-based combat is not at all similar to WoW.

rojoArcueid

I just want to point out that GW2 has an "action" combat option now. You can aim with a reticle and attack with mouse clicks and it works very well.
I have never used tab in this game ever. In standard (non action) mode there is auto target, no need to use tab for anything.

Mardukk

rojoArcueid said:

I just want to point out that GW2 has an "action" combat option now. You can aim with a reticle and attack with mouse clicks and it works very well.
I have never used tab in this game ever. In standard (non action) mode there is auto target, no need to use tab for anything.

GW2's "action" combat doesn't work for all classes and skills.  It is really broken with a few of my characters in the game.  You better hit tab before using a lot of skills in that game.

I'm guessing you have been fortunate to not run into any of the classes that use skills that don't work with the reticle combat (sword ranger etc...).

filmoret

So as you can see over half the mmorpg population doesn't want anything other then tab target.  And we blame the developers for delivering more of the same old stuff.  Its the players who want it.

SlyLoK

While I really enjoy ESO I have had more fun with tab target combat. I believe it brings out more of the RPG the MMORPG genre seems to be abandoning / missing as well.

Gaming.Rocks2

DMKano said:

All three styles can work amazing if the rest of the game is designed to fit those styles well.

So it's impossible for me to pick.

Tab targetting works great in EQ1
Soft locking works great in ESO and Bless
Action combat works great in BnS 

See what i mean? - If the game fits the combat design, all are equally good for me.

That being true, but the question is in a perfect game which one would you prefer? Or if you are creating your own game which route would you take?
Answering like that is I ask you to pick the color you prefer between black, brown and red. 
Then you answer well if I'm going to a funeral I pick black, if I'm going hiking.....
You still have a preference, all people do. You are only avoiding the question. That's why experts usually word these type of questions differently so wouldn't be able to get away with it. 
No biggie though, just an observation

cronius77

having played plenty of both i still prefer tab target with skill bars that actually feel tactical instead of who can spam dodge and block faster.