Who knows. Until it's actually in game taking everything CR says with a truckload of salt and then still assume its bullshit.
Are you keeping a close eye on development? Because you come off as if you aren't sure what exactly is going on with the game.
Every time Goonsquad/SA/DS post salt on Star Citizen, I spend more money on it. Every time a mentally disturbed former backer or Elite CMDR toxic emo comments, I spend more money on it. Every time they refuse to answer why they spend so much time arguing about a game they don't even like, I spend more money on it. Want to watch the world burn because you can't have your way? You got whats coming to you.
Right well when it makes it in game then I will agree with you but right now it's about as real as a unicorn fart. They dropped the scripted transitions and replaced it with what? 2 buttons clicks?
So instead of a rather nice looking transition you click on universe and then click on ArcCorp and you load in? If I'm wrong please correct me.
They replaced them with what we already see today, full planets and seamless transitions.
Before everything that was planet-wise was pretty much "make-believe", that is background scenario, skyboxes, and a scripted transition that is a loading "screen" that feels seamless at the cost of giving the player no control.
The buttons are simply how Arccorp was added, by the time Arccorp was released there was no space release to even need such transition (that came after with 2.0) and the prototype of PG Planets was already lurking around, so no surprise the focus shifted to PG.
Nynx is the biggest proof that was the case, it was "coming soon" but once the design changes they decided not to release it, months later we saw the landing zone embed on the PG tech demo "pupil to planet".
Seamless transitions? So you can go from space down to the planet seamlessly in order to get to ArcCorp?
Right well when it makes it in game then I will agree with you but right now it's about as real as a unicorn fart. They dropped the scripted transitions and replaced it with what? 2 buttons clicks?
So instead of a rather nice looking transition you click on universe and then click on ArcCorp and you load in? If I'm wrong please correct me.
They replaced them with what we already see today, full planets and seamless transitions.
Before everything that was planet-wise was pretty much "make-believe", that is background scenario, skyboxes, and a scripted transition that is a loading "screen" that feels seamless at the cost of giving the player no control.
The buttons are simply how Arccorp was added, by the time Arccorp was released there was no space release to even need such transition (that came after with 2.0) and the prototype of PG Planets was already lurking around, so no surprise the focus shifted to PG.
Nynx is the biggest proof that was the case, it was "coming soon" but once the design changes they decided not to release it, months later we saw the landing zone embed on the PG tech demo "pupil to planet".
So you're saying that Arc Corp is a planet that could be landed on back in the 1.x days, but with transitions and no open worldish stuff?
Seamless transitions? So you can go from space down to the planet seamlessly in order to get to ArcCorp?
Why do you think they report work ongoing on the creation of assets for procedural cities? The creation of the planet with a biome to resemble a high populated planet, hint hint the Arccorp planet where they need to place the Area 18 landing zone.
So you're saying that Arc Corp is a planet that could be landed on back in the 1.x days, but with transitions and no open worldish stuff?
No, that it never got to it because the focus shifted to PG, when Arccorp released there was no space yet. There was no real landing there, what they originally were going for was one scripted on-rails map loading, what they have shown with several cinematic bits.
Once they decided to go with PG they had no need to ever implement the transitions they planned, they decided to not release Nynx and integrate it within the PG tech instead, what they showed later on that first tech demo.
Seamless transitions? So you can go from space down to the planet seamlessly in order to get to ArcCorp?
Why do you think they report work ongoing on the creation of assets for procedural cities? The creation of the planet with a biome to resemble a high populated planet, hint hint the Arccorp planet where they need to place the Area 18 landing zone.
So you're saying that Arc Corp is a planet that could be landed on back in the 1.x days, but with transitions and no open worldish stuff?
No, that it never got to it because the focus shifted to PG, when Arccorp released there was no space yet. There was no real landing there, what they originally were going for was one scripted on-rails map loading, what they have shown with several cinematic bits.
Once they decided to go with PG they had no need to ever implement the transitions they planned, Nynx didn't got to release because of this and months later gets shown embedded into a PG planet.
So then that's a no to seamless transitions currently in game to go from space to ArcCorp
So then that's a no to seamless transitions currently in game to go from space to ArcCorp
As it currently stands it is seamless, just like the Delamar landing zone they already show scheduled for 3.0 is the same type of hand-crafted areas that are seamless.
A landing zone like Arccorp is obviously quite a bigger challenge because it's a massively populated planet, they will for sure go with the seamless transition that the PG tech and asset streaming allow, I'm just not sure if Arccorp will be a free roam planet or not.
So then that's a no to seamless transitions currently in game to go from space to ArcCorp
As it currently stands it is seamless, just like the Delamar landing zone they already show scheduled for 3.0 is the same type of hand-crafted areas that are seamless.
A landing zone like Arccorp is obviously quite a bigger challenge because it's a massively populated planet, they will for sure go with the seamless transition that the PG tech and asset streaming allow, I'm just not sure if Arccorp will be a free roam planet or not.
Ok you make it sound like it's seamless then make it sound like they are still working on it and it's not in game so what is it? If it's not in game then I don't give a crap cause it might never get in game or be delayed for who knows how long
Ok you make it sound like it's seamless then make it sound like they are still working on it and it's not in game so what is it? If it's not in game then I don't give a crap cause it might never get in game or be delayed for who knows how long
Seamless is just the tech, PG gives the scale and the asset streaming allows that scale to seamlessly load in and out as you move.
Comes with 3.0 as we don't have planets, moons or landing zones on the PU release yet.
Ok you make it sound like it's seamless then make it sound like they are still working on it and it's not in game so what is it? If it's not in game then I don't give a crap cause it might never get in game or be delayed for who knows how long
Seamless is just the tech, PG gives the scale and the asset streaming allows that scale to seamlessly load in and out as you move.
Comes with 3.0 as we don't have planets, moons or landing zones on the PU release yet.
Right so you could have avoided these multiple posts if you had just said "yes you're correct they replaced a nice transition scene with 2 button presses"
So then that's a no to seamless transitions currently in game to go from space to ArcCorp
As it currently stands it is seamless, just like the Delamar landing zone they already show scheduled for 3.0 is the same type of hand-crafted areas that are seamless.
A landing zone like Arccorp is obviously quite a bigger challenge because it's a massively populated planet, they will for sure go with the seamless transition that the PG tech and asset streaming allow, I'm just not sure if Arccorp will be a free roam planet or not.
Ok you make it sound like it's seamless then make it sound like they are still working on it and it's not in game so what is it? If it's not in game then I don't give a crap cause it might never get in game or be delayed for who knows how long
Why are you pretending you care about what's in a game you don't even play ? I doubt you even own a PC that can run Star Citizen lol
So then that's a no to seamless transitions currently in game to go from space to ArcCorp
As it currently stands it is seamless, just like the Delamar landing zone they already show scheduled for 3.0 is the same type of hand-crafted areas that are seamless.
A landing zone like Arccorp is obviously quite a bigger challenge because it's a massively populated planet, they will for sure go with the seamless transition that the PG tech and asset streaming allow, I'm just not sure if Arccorp will be a free roam planet or not.
Ok you make it sound like it's seamless then make it sound like they are still working on it and it's not in game so what is it? If it's not in game then I don't give a crap cause it might never get in game or be delayed for who knows how long
Why are you pretending you care about what's in a game you don't even play ? I doubt you even own a PC that can run Star Citizen lol
Mind sticking to the topic at hand instead of trying to troll/instigate?
So then that's a no to seamless transitions currently in game to go from space to ArcCorp
As it currently stands it is seamless, just like the Delamar landing zone they already show scheduled for 3.0 is the same type of hand-crafted areas that are seamless.
A landing zone like Arccorp is obviously quite a bigger challenge because it's a massively populated planet, they will for sure go with the seamless transition that the PG tech and asset streaming allow, I'm just not sure if Arccorp will be a free roam planet or not.
Ok you make it sound like it's seamless then make it sound like they are still working on it and it's not in game so what is it? If it's not in game then I don't give a crap cause it might never get in game or be delayed for who knows how long
Why are you pretending you care about what's in a game you don't even play ? I doubt you even own a PC that can run Star Citizen lol
looking at the frame rates they were getting in the last video I saw, the devs dont have a pc that can run it either.
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
@Kefo you appear really interested in Star Citizen. You should watch the past few ATV (Around The Verse) episodes to get a better understanding where PG celestial bodies, biomes and vehicle entry works. As you can tell, it does little good to have people try and explain from different perspectives. You'd be better served seeing and hearing it for yourself. Here ya go.
Every time Goonsquad/SA/DS post salt on Star Citizen, I spend more money on it. Every time a mentally disturbed former backer or Elite CMDR toxic emo comments, I spend more money on it. Every time they refuse to answer why they spend so much time arguing about a game they don't even like, I spend more money on it. Want to watch the world burn because you can't have your way? You got whats coming to you.
So then that's a no to seamless transitions currently in game to go from space to ArcCorp
As it currently stands it is seamless, just like the Delamar landing zone they already show scheduled for 3.0 is the same type of hand-crafted areas that are seamless.
A landing zone like Arccorp is obviously quite a bigger challenge because it's a massively populated planet, they will for sure go with the seamless transition that the PG tech and asset streaming allow, I'm just not sure if Arccorp will be a free roam planet or not.
Ok you make it sound like it's seamless then make it sound like they are still working on it and it's not in game so what is it? If it's not in game then I don't give a crap cause it might never get in game or be delayed for who knows how long
Why are you pretending you care about what's in a game you don't even play ? I doubt you even own a PC that can run Star Citizen lol
Mind sticking to the topic at hand instead of trying to troll/instigate?
Honest question really lol
On one hand you seem to be really fixated by Star Citizen and post almost obsessively about it, on the other hand you haven't played or keep mixing basic concepts of the game and it's development.
I mean you seem to dedicate more time to Star Citizen than actual playing backers that paid for it lol
It's highly intriguing to say the least.
Btw @ 3:25 in the video above they talk about the work being developed for Procedural Generated cities for the Stanton System which consists of 4 planets, one of them is ArcCorp or Stanton III (the city from the 2014 onrails landing demo) which is a full on industrialized planet and will benefit from such tech. More about the Stanton System here: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/spectrum-dispatch/13141-Stanton-System
@Kefo you appear really interested in Star Citizen. You should watch the past few ATV (Around The Verse) episodes to get a better understanding where PG celestial bodies, biomes and vehicle entry works. As you can tell, it does little good to have people try and explain from different perspectives. You'd be better served seeing and hearing it for yourself. Here ya go.
I do thank you for the links and I have watched a few episodes. I knew there were no seamless transitions but was seeing how many posts it would take Max before he finally admitted to it after trying to confuse everything by throwing as much info into the post instead of just saying you're right there aren't any right now.
people talk about a video that came out in 2014 and why the content therein is still not playable today and that right there is the perfect example of judging a game still in active pre-alpha development as though it was a final release. those very same people after creating such a Strawman then feign concern by asking intellectually dishonest questions such as, "why do we still not have the tech that we saw that back in 2014 yet in the alpha build (which backers get to play and test to give feedback on to improve)?"
i mean they are still making the game, and they found a better, more scalable and more immersive tech to use for the landings to make them manual and seamless (only being automatic in higher traffic areas like Arc Corp). so we are getting better tech than shown in that 2014 video, but you still have the audacity to complain because it took some time to get together? haha, smh and people say that millennials are entitled.
"Cherish the quiet...before my STORM!" For a $5/5000 in-game credit bonus for backing Star Citizen (MMO) or Squadron 42 (Single Player/Co-op) use my Referral code: STAR-3QDY-SZBG
oh and before i forget, for those claiming that CIG's funding method is somehow an affront to gaming need to realize that NO purchase on the CIG store is mandatory, hell you do not even need to pledge your support to the game's development by obtaining a game package in the first place if you do not want to. no one is forcing you, so why the angst?
"Cherish the quiet...before my STORM!" For a $5/5000 in-game credit bonus for backing Star Citizen (MMO) or Squadron 42 (Single Player/Co-op) use my Referral code: STAR-3QDY-SZBG
So then that's a no to seamless transitions currently in game to go from space to ArcCorp
As it currently stands it is seamless, just like the Delamar landing zone they already show scheduled for 3.0 is the same type of hand-crafted areas that are seamless.
A landing zone like Arccorp is obviously quite a bigger challenge because it's a massively populated planet, they will for sure go with the seamless transition that the PG tech and asset streaming allow, I'm just not sure if Arccorp will be a free roam planet or not.
Ok you make it sound like it's seamless then make it sound like they are still working on it and it's not in game so what is it? If it's not in game then I don't give a crap cause it might never get in game or be delayed for who knows how long
Why are you pretending you care about what's in a game you don't even play ? I doubt you even own a PC that can run Star Citizen lol
Mind sticking to the topic at hand instead of trying to troll/instigate?
Honest question really lol
On one hand you seem to be really fixated by Star Citizen and post almost obsessively about it, on the other hand you haven't played or keep mixing basic concepts of the game and it's development.
I mean you seem to dedicate more time to Star Citizen than actual playing backers that paid for it lol
It's highly intriguing to say the least.
I'm not really fixated on Star Citizen as I don't always post about the game. I tend to post more when I see posts about what they want to put in game being passed off as it's already in game or when people start theorycrafting about how awesome the game will be when it's been shown through history that what's promised isn't what's delivered.
I do play dumb sometimes to see what people respond with and if they are being honest, lying or are actually just confused. Hell I've been confused and have people like @Erillion correct me and I've thanked him for it. I need to see working systems playable in game and not some bullshot marketing video to take the promised features seriously.
Also if you think I'm obsessive then don't go on the official forums. That place can be scary lol
I do thank you for the links and I have watched a few episodes. I knew there were no seamless transitions but was seeing how many posts it would take Max before he finally admitted to it after trying to confuse everything by throwing as much info into the post instead of just saying you're right there aren't any right now.
your statement is actually mostly incorrect. there are seamless transitions in the current alpha build backers get to test. you can seamlessly fly from any point in the PU to another without a loading screen. in the current PU you cannot land on any planetary bodies so there are no seamless planetary landings that backers get to test, but even then that does not mean there are no seamless transitions in the dev builds that we as backers do not yet have to test, as evidenced by their AtVs showcasing future tech backers get to test in the upcoming 3.0 patch.
now some of you may ask, why be so pedantic? well it's because people LOVE to peddle misinformation and use a lack of inference as the means but which to justify their point of view in the misinformation they spread.
"Cherish the quiet...before my STORM!" For a $5/5000 in-game credit bonus for backing Star Citizen (MMO) or Squadron 42 (Single Player/Co-op) use my Referral code: STAR-3QDY-SZBG
your statement is actually mostly incorrect. there are seamless transitions in the current alpha build backers get to test. you can seamlessly fly from any point in the PU to another without a loading screen. in the current PU you cannot land on any planetary bodies so there are no seamless planetary landings that backers get to test, but even then that does not mean there are no seamless transitions in the dev builds that we as backers do not yet have to test, as evidenced by their AtVs showcasing future tech backers get to test in the upcoming 3.0 patch.
Also true yeah.
The 3.0's seamless is just a new piece of tech that is ofc the object container streaming that they converted Crusader to, that is tackling in the massive scale and growing complexity of the universe as it develops.
So then that's a no to seamless transitions currently in game to go from space to ArcCorp
As it currently stands it is seamless, just like the Delamar landing zone they already show scheduled for 3.0 is the same type of hand-crafted areas that are seamless.
A landing zone like Arccorp is obviously quite a bigger challenge because it's a massively populated planet, they will for sure go with the seamless transition that the PG tech and asset streaming allow, I'm just not sure if Arccorp will be a free roam planet or not.
Ok you make it sound like it's seamless then make it sound like they are still working on it and it's not in game so what is it? If it's not in game then I don't give a crap cause it might never get in game or be delayed for who knows how long
Why are you pretending you care about what's in a game you don't even play ? I doubt you even own a PC that can run Star Citizen lol
Mind sticking to the topic at hand instead of trying to troll/instigate?
Honest question really lol
On one hand you seem to be really fixated by Star Citizen and post almost obsessively about it, on the other hand you haven't played or keep mixing basic concepts of the game and it's development.
I mean you seem to dedicate more time to Star Citizen than actual playing backers that paid for it lol
It's highly intriguing to say the least.
I'm not really fixated on Star Citizen as I don't always post about the game. I tend to post more when I see posts about what they want to put in game being passed off as it's already in game or when people start theorycrafting abouthow awesome the game will be when it's been shown through history that what's promised isn't what's delivered.
I do play dumb sometimes to see what people respond with and if they are being honest, lying or are actually just confused. Hell I've been confused and have people like @Erillion correct me and I've thanked him for it. I need to see working systems playable in game and not some bullshot marketing video to take the promised features seriously.
Also if you think I'm obsessive then don't go on the official forums. That place can be scary lol
I've added some info to my post before, might want to check it out.
Adressing the parts in bold :
Humm why would you condone people for theorycrafting about the gameplay of Star Citizen in a thread about the game Star Citizen?
Should they be theorycrafting about the company loans, furniture and coffe machines instead?
I think this general discussion about Star Citizen doesn't belong here, in Erillion's "Development Updates" thread. Instead of derailing every specific topic thread in here, why not create a general thread instead and stick to that. The development updates gets buried in off-topic stuff.
I do thank you for the links and I have watched a few episodes. I knew there were no seamless transitions but was seeing how many posts it would take Max before he finally admitted to it after trying to confuse everything by throwing as much info into the post instead of just saying you're right there aren't any right now.
your statement is actually mostly incorrect. there are seamless transitions in the current alpha build backers get to test. you can seamlessly fly from any point in the PU to another without a loading screen. in the current PU you cannot land on any planetary bodies so there are no seamless planetary landings that backers get to test, but even then that does not mean there are no seamless transitions in the dev builds that we as backers do not yet have to test, as evidenced by their AtVs showcasing future tech backers get to test in the upcoming 3.0 patch.
now some of you may ask, why be so pedantic? well it's because people LOVE to peddle misinformation and use a lack of inference as the means but which to justify their point of view in the misinformation they spread.
I'm well aware you can fly from planet to planet but going back to my original post that started this I was making fun that they removed a nice looking cutscene to be replaced by 2 button clicks. People then came in to defend the game and make it seem like seamless transitions down to ArcCorp are already in game, which they aren't and was admitted after much teeth pulling.
I don't care if devs have the build in front of them that allows them to land on planets because if you've ever followed any kind of game development what is shown doesn't necessarily make it into the finished product and is just made to hype the crowd to buy buy buy.
Im not spreading any misinformation but trying to get people to stop vomiting up A lot of the info that CIG is posting that doesn't actually exist and might have been promised years ago
So then that's a no to seamless transitions currently in game to go from space to ArcCorp
As it currently stands it is seamless, just like the Delamar landing zone they already show scheduled for 3.0 is the same type of hand-crafted areas that are seamless.
A landing zone like Arccorp is obviously quite a bigger challenge because it's a massively populated planet, they will for sure go with the seamless transition that the PG tech and asset streaming allow, I'm just not sure if Arccorp will be a free roam planet or not.
Ok you make it sound like it's seamless then make it sound like they are still working on it and it's not in game so what is it? If it's not in game then I don't give a crap cause it might never get in game or be delayed for who knows how long
Why are you pretending you care about what's in a game you don't even play ? I doubt you even own a PC that can run Star Citizen lol
Mind sticking to the topic at hand instead of trying to troll/instigate?
Honest question really lol
On one hand you seem to be really fixated by Star Citizen and post almost obsessively about it, on the other hand you haven't played or keep mixing basic concepts of the game and it's development.
I mean you seem to dedicate more time to Star Citizen than actual playing backers that paid for it lol
It's highly intriguing to say the least.
I'm not really fixated on Star Citizen as I don't always post about the game. I tend to post more when I see posts about what they want to put in game being passed off as it's already in game or when people start theorycrafting abouthow awesome the game will be when it's been shown through history that what's promised isn't what's delivered.
I do play dumb sometimes to see what people respond with and if they are being honest, lying or are actually just confused. Hell I've been confused and have people like @Erillion correct me and I've thanked him for it. I need to see working systems playable in game and not some bullshot marketing video to take the promised features seriously.
Also if you think I'm obsessive then don't go on the official forums. That place can be scary lol
I've added some info to my post before, might want to check it out.
Adressing the parts in bold :
Humm why would you condone people for theorycrafting about the gameplay of Star Citizen in a thread about the game Star Citizen?
Should they be theorycrafting about the company loans, furniture and coffe machines instead?
CIG forum got replaced by Spectrum 5 months ago.
theorycraft but Christ some of the posts I've seen where people will say that they are going to do X and how awesome it's going to be and they will make millions and blah blah blah when the info about said feature is years old and it's not even promised to be in game yet. They have no idea how it's going to work but they let themselves be hyped and hen they will happily toss money at CIG when they make some sort of announcement.
CIG forum got replaced by spectrum so would you say that's still there forum then or are you just trying to be cheeky and failing?
Comments
Seamless transitions? So you can go from space down to the planet seamlessly in order to get to ArcCorp?
So you're saying that Arc Corp is a planet that could be landed on back in the 1.x days, but with transitions and no open worldish stuff?
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
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No, that it never got to it because the focus shifted to PG, when Arccorp released there was no space yet. There was no real landing there, what they originally were going for was one scripted on-rails map loading, what they have shown with several cinematic bits.
Once they decided to go with PG they had no need to ever implement the transitions they planned, they decided to not release Nynx and integrate it within the PG tech instead, what they showed later on that first tech demo.
A landing zone like Arccorp is obviously quite a bigger challenge because it's a massively populated planet, they will for sure go with the seamless transition that the PG tech and asset streaming allow, I'm just not sure if Arccorp will be a free roam planet or not.
Comes with 3.0 as we don't have planets, moons or landing zones on the PU release yet.
I doubt you even own a PC that can run Star Citizen lol
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
On one hand you seem to be really fixated by Star Citizen and post almost obsessively about it, on the other hand you haven't played or keep mixing basic concepts of the game and it's development.
I mean you seem to dedicate more time to Star Citizen than actual playing backers that paid for it lol
It's highly intriguing to say the least.
Btw @ 3:25 in the video above they talk about the work being developed for Procedural Generated cities for the Stanton System which consists of 4 planets, one of them is ArcCorp or Stanton III (the city from the 2014 onrails landing demo) which is a full on industrialized planet and will benefit from such tech.
More about the Stanton System here: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/spectrum-dispatch/13141-Stanton-System
i mean they are still making the game, and they found a better, more scalable and more immersive tech to use for the landings to make them manual and seamless (only being automatic in higher traffic areas like Arc Corp). so we are getting better tech than shown in that 2014 video, but you still have the audacity to complain because it took some time to get together? haha, smh and people say that millennials are entitled.
"Cherish the quiet...before my STORM!"
For a $5/5000 in-game credit bonus for backing Star Citizen (MMO) or Squadron 42 (Single Player/Co-op) use my Referral code: STAR-3QDY-SZBG
"Cherish the quiet...before my STORM!"
For a $5/5000 in-game credit bonus for backing Star Citizen (MMO) or Squadron 42 (Single Player/Co-op) use my Referral code: STAR-3QDY-SZBG
I do play dumb sometimes to see what people respond with and if they are being honest, lying or are actually just confused. Hell I've been confused and have people like @Erillion correct me and I've thanked him
for it. I need to see working systems playable in game and not some bullshot marketing video to take the promised features seriously.
Also if you think I'm obsessive then don't go on the official forums. That place can be scary lol
now some of you may ask, why be so pedantic? well it's because people LOVE to peddle misinformation and use a lack of inference as the means but which to justify their point of view in the misinformation they spread.
"Cherish the quiet...before my STORM!"
For a $5/5000 in-game credit bonus for backing Star Citizen (MMO) or Squadron 42 (Single Player/Co-op) use my Referral code: STAR-3QDY-SZBG
The 3.0's seamless is just a new piece of tech that is ofc the object container streaming that they converted Crusader to, that is tackling in the massive scale and growing complexity of the universe as it develops.
Adressing the parts in bold :
Humm why would you condone people for theorycrafting about the gameplay of Star Citizen in a thread about the game Star Citizen?
Should they be theorycrafting about the company loans, furniture and coffe machines instead?
CIG forum got replaced by Spectrum 5 months ago.
Viking
I don't care if devs have the build in front of them that allows them to land on planets because if you've ever followed any kind of game development what is shown doesn't necessarily make it into the finished product and is just made to hype the crowd to buy buy buy.
Im not spreading any misinformation but trying to get people to stop vomiting up A lot of the info that CIG is posting that doesn't actually exist and might have been promised years ago
CIG forum got replaced by spectrum so would you say that's still there forum then or are you just trying to be cheeky and failing?