And this is why i hate gender locking.

IfrianMMO

There seems to be an agreement between most BDO veterans, that the Female characters simply outperform their male counterparts.

The Valk is better than the warrior, the plum is better than the blader and so on and so forth.

Yes, there may be specific and very limited scenarios in which this may not be true but overall and for most purposes, it is so.

The frustrating part is that this is not new.

This has held true for a lot of genderlocked games, perhaps because Female characters sell more,  and it is just as annoying every time.

No matter if you care or care not about playing this or that character, i think at the very least we can all agree  that your preferred character gender should not be a factor on how well you will perform during your gameplay.

I mean, i thought this was 2016 and not 2003.

Sovrath

Where are you getting this "evidence"?

IfrianMMO

Sovrath said:

Where are you getting this "evidence"?

From pretty much every single discussion on the subject since people began playing in the other versions and the fact they gave the warrior it´s awakening weapon first because of how much it underperformed before obtaining it, between other things?

I mean, just try leveling a warrior and a valk and tell me what you think about it.

Same thing happens between bladers and plums, as bladers are AOE/party based which in simple terms it ends up meaning that they level up/farm/1v1 a lot worse than the plum does.

IfrianMMO

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

I have both a warrior and a valk... both play differently, and none is harder or easier.

I don't like gender locking, but this thread is not relevant either.

By differently you mean that the warrior levels a lot slower,  has less mobility when blocking,  does less damage,  does not have the valk´s support abilities and farms a lot less fast than the valk?

If so, we agree, they play very differently.
As in, one is much better overall than the other.

Kyleran

IfrianMMO said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

I have both a warrior and a valk... both play differently, and none is harder or easier.

I don't like gender locking, but this thread is not relevant either.

By differently you mean that the warrior levels a lot slower,  has less mobility when blocking,  does less damage,  does not have the valk´s support abilities and farms a lot less fast than the valk?

If so, we agree, they play very differently.
As in, one is much better overall than the other.

Your post is a perfect example of how a min/max attitude to MMORPGS does a huge disservice to the genre.

I suspect there are positives to warriors you are overlooking or omitting to "prove" your case.

Someone once said Ansel Adams could take a better photograph with a pinhole camera than most people could with a modern day SLR.

As is often the case, real skill comes from the weilder of the tool, rather than the tool itself.

Sears and Roebuck would probably tell you every tool serves a useful purpose in the right situation.

Sovrath

IfrianMMO said:

Sovrath said:

Where are you getting this "evidence"?

From pretty much every single discussion on the subject since people began playing in the other versions and the fact they gave the warrior it´s awakening weapon first because of how much it underperformed before obtaining it, between other things?

Well then I guess you missed this thread ...

http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/1625-valkyrie-warrior/

I'm also going to guess that every thread just devolves into a back and forth argument with people citing a variety of things that in the end probably ends up being more about the player.

IfrianMMO

Kyleran said:

IfrianMMO said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

I have both a warrior and a valk... both play differently, and none is harder or easier.

I don't like gender locking, but this thread is not relevant either.

By differently you mean that the warrior levels a lot slower,  has less mobility when blocking,  does less damage,  does not have the valk´s support abilities and farms a lot less fast than the valk?

If so, we agree, they play very differently.
As in, one is much better overall than the other.

Your post is a perfect example of how a min/max attitude to MMORPGS does a huge disservice to the genre.

I suspect there are positives to warriors you are overlooking or omitting to "prove" your case.

Someone once said Ansel Adams could take a better photograph with a pinhole camera than most people could with a modern day SLR.

As is often the case, real skill comes from the weilder of the tool, rather than the tool itself.

Sears and Roebuck would probably tell you every tool serves a useful purpose in the right situation.

Indeed, for instance, the warrior is better at 5v5 and they appear equal in bigger formats.
However that is ONE aspect of the game compared to the valk outperforming in most other areas.

And the whole "real skill comes from the player" is no excuse not to make gendered classes equal.

Yes, in the end a good player will beat the bad player but i do not see how this, as true as it may be, has anything to do with whether gendered classes should be equal or not.

IfrianMMO

Torval said:

My class isn't as good as class X.... because some irrational anecdotal arguments.

A class having lower dps, no support abilities and an inferior version of block is not "anecdotal irrationality"

The fact that warriors farm slower  than valks (or pretty much any other class till greatswords) is not really an anecdote.

It´s pretty much a fact.

sketocafe

Welcome to Korea.

SavageHorizon

sketocafe said:

Welcome to Korea.

I didn't know Crowfall was Korean.

Solar_Prophet

Sounds like a class balance issue, not a gender locking issue. 

I'm just as sick of the SJW's and hypocritical, socially damaging Sarkeesian bullshit as anybody, believe me. But let's not stoop to their level and try to factor gender into something which doesn't really involve it in the first place, at least not until there's evidence of it beyond the subjective opinions of a few people. 

SavageHorizon

Solar_Prophet said:

Sounds like a class balance issue, not a gender locking issue. 

Exactly.

MikePaladin

In picture are supposed to be 2 Sorcerer 1 Female 1 Male 

But In reality I'm destined to be like this ...

Is needless to say that they lost at least 1 customer me because of this .....
I don't only consider Character development poor in BDO but also Class gender restricted ......
Being a person who loves to live the character it became for me a turn off

tawess

Solar_Prophet said:

Sounds like a class balance issue, not a gender locking issue. 

. 

Well... As the classes are gender locked. No male Valk or female warrior. 

You could call it an issue with gender locking... As that was the original complaint.

It had nothing with real world gender to do... It is a matter of imagery. 

Kyleran

If you believe a Valk to be more powerful then roll one, problem solved.

Avatars are just tools to used like a ship or hammer.

Select the tool you favor and go to it.

Or play another game.

Dhaenon

To start with... I've never played this game. 

Now, my opinion is thus, it sounds like you are comparing completely different classes that are "supposed" to be gender locked mirrors of each other. Perhaps you should look at this like they are in fact completely different classes. In that case, BDO has a lot of gender locked classes that are going to be balanced either poorly or really well. Now if your problem is that the female locked classes play better than the male ones... well... check your privilege! Haha, I kid.

Seriously though, game just launched and I am sure balancing is coming down the pipeline eventually.  

I do agree that gender locking almost every class in the game, be it male or female locked, is really stupid IMO.

Talonsin

I prefer my toons to have bewbs and refuse to play any game without some form of pixelated cleavage.

mgilbrtsn

I don't care for gender locking for purely aesthetic reasons.  I prefer to play gents.  I've only really done PvE so far though.

Lord.Bachus

You all pitty me ...


probably the same people that dont want all races to have all classes dont want genderlocking, and the only reason behind it, is that they are used to it..

you just need to learn to accept games as they are, or you will never ever have fun again in a game..

tawess

oh i have fully accepted what the game is... That is why i have no plans of ever playing it.  

Zen00

Dhaenon said:

Seriously though, game just launched and I am sure balancing is coming down the pipeline eventually.  

I do agree that gender locking almost every class in the game, be it male or female locked, is really stupid IMO.

Except this isn't a new game, it's been out in Asia for a long time now. Balancing should have been done a long time ago.

DAOWAce

IfrianMMO said:

By differently you mean that the warrior levels a lot slower,  has less mobility when blocking,  does less damage,  does not have the valk´s support abilities and farms a lot less fast than the valk?

If so, we agree, they play very differently.
As in, one is much better overall than the other.

Pretty much this.

I leveled a Valkyrie first, then started to bring up a warrior.  It was grueling by comparison.  Less mobility, less damage.. just, totally inferior.

The only thing the warrior has going for it is that the equipment doesn't look stupid, and you can be Geralt.

Kyleran

Talonsin said:

I prefer my toons to have bewbs and refuse to play any game without some form of pixelated cleavage.

At least you know what is really important. 

mgilbrtsn said:

I don't care for gender locking for purely aesthetic reasons.  I prefer to play gents.  I've only really done PvE so far though.

I also prefer to play male avatars, but am "ready to roll with changes" when necessary to have access to the class (tool) I desire.

Lord.Bachus said:

You all pitty me ...


probably the same people that dont want all races to have all classes dont want genderlocking, and the only reason behind it, is that they are used to it..

you just need to learn to accept games as they are, or you will never ever have fun again in a game..

Darksworm

Torval said:

My class isn't as good as class X.... because some irrational anecdotal arguments.

Theory crafting isn't irrational or anecdotal.  People who play WoW know they're going to get outDPS'd by an Arcane Mage on an Affliction Warlock because that class performs better, and it's easy to prove.

If they can prove the damage disparity exists and the issues with disparity farming efficiency, mobility, etc. do in fact exist...

Then they obviously have a good point.

Not sure why everything has to be down to class envy.  Sometimes, the disparities are big enough that it's totally legit to ask for either a nerf or a boost - whichever makes sense in that situation.

The reason why "class envy" is a thing is because people who play the more powerful classes like to keep their advantages, and dislike being brought down to be in line with other similar classes ;-)

lordconst

jacker1991

Darksworm said:

Torval said:

My class isn't as good as class X.... because some irrational anecdotal arguments.

 People who play WoW know they're going to get outDPS'd by an Arcane Mage on an Affliction Warlock because that class performs better, and it's easy to prove.

This is one of the many things that has killed the genre for me.