My forum post obviously ive played a few more days since then (but for record im only 2 levels further on) but if you want to know specifics feel free to gimme a shout on forum
I think Fevir brought up a lot of good points in his impressions on the duality of BDO.
There was no way this game was not going to be controversial. Here was a game with beautiful graphics, and a nice mix of eastern and influences in one. This alone gave it so much attention. Add to it, all the impressive elements like the character creation, crafting, economy and so on, it was bound to be a looker.
But not having a hard level cap? Immense grinding post lvl 50? Massive gear > skill duration? xp loss on death? no fast travel? can't reset your skills without paying?
These are elements of a hardcore MMO. These are the elements of a game that allows for potential abuse. And so, there are people who are going (and have had) a really bad time. You're being harassed inside the game and told to f**k off because someone who plays many more hours a day than you and who will beat you every time due to leveling and gear being so important. These are elements that make some people turn off.
Fevir says that the developers are aware that this game is not for everyone. It could be a good sign in that they won't compromise. There was no way that a game like BDO could ever be the mainstream MMO. The question is now- Can the game remain true to its ideals. Its quest for immersion even if it goes against the trends of the rest of the genre?
I don't know if I will keep playing the game. I think it has been exciting- a fantastic experience so far, but it begins to dawn on me how time consuming this game is. It encourages you to remain in the game. to AFK farm. To set up a loop where your horse goes endless in a circle to increase its level. Or for you to fish. Minimize the game and don't turn off your computer. It's a game where dying can have a chance of breaking your armor enchancments. These elements are massively controversial. It's the opposite of the appeal of mass produced MMOs. As a casual gamer I wonder if this game will be able to keep offering me something. So I got a lvl 50, and the new cool awakening weapons come out. Can I even realistically do it? The grind is serious.
But on the other hand, BDO is more exciting and immersive than any game I've played for more than a decade of this kind. When you go out into the world and leave a town, it feels dangerous. Because another play can jump you. And you will lose xp. Durability decreases, repairing is expensive. you need to maintain your workers and the crafting empire and do these farmville type micro management. you have to walk everywhere and manage alts with different levels of energy.
BDO becomes very time consuming and a game of multitasking. It's a game that asks more of you than most in recent memory. We have to gas far back as Vanguard for the last time a hardcore effort was put into it like this. But BDO doesn't seem hardcore early on. Its spirit quest handholding "navi: hey listen" sthick is themepark as hell. you press a button and it literally tells you to kill foxes, wolves, goblins, and gives rewards. BDO is incredible interesting.
Like Fevir I am scared about BDOs future, but I am also excited. I am glad that I have experienced it because its not like anything I have played before. It's pretty clear that someone who doesn't have a open mind or who have tried to understand what the developers set out to do, was never going to like this game.
This game has a shoddy UI. It could use more world bosses and harder stuff. It could use a lot (and I do mean, a lot) more itemization and gear. It could benefit from not locking so much behind the cash shop like the uber cute pets.
But again, at the end of the day, the positives significantly outweighs the bad. This game is a massive achievement. There is no coming around that. It's not Destiny or The Division- Games that had large budgets and cool ideas wrapped in a neat hyped package. You can see the blood, sweat, tears and vision in BDO. But that also leaves people to hate it. For some people BDO represents everything they hate about the genre. Some for cash shop reasons, some for its indifference with balance. Some for its time consuming and time wasting elements. No fast travel means so many things take forever. The hours fly away. It's a trade off. It depends on who you are or what you want.
I think misinformation makes BDO controversial, and there is no shortage of that currently. I'm limited on time, so Ill just point a couple things out rq from the super-long post above me.
1) You do not have to pay anything for skill resets...ever. You can if you like, but there ultimately is no need to.
2) You do not have to hurry to lvl 55. (Yes, it will take some time. Yes, there are still plenty of other things to do. Yes, you should join a guild and participate in battles anyway.)
3) You do not de-level from exp loss. There is a point at which this part of death loss no longer matters.
4) As for gems breaking? I've now got a bank doing nothing but holding massive amounts of gems. There are also tons for sale. I have lost one green gem so far.
5) You can simply ride your horse, and it levels. You are not required to run afk circles (however, i would still recommend afk fishing).
6) The UI is customizable. Yes, it can be in your way right at the start of the game. Yes, you can fix this.
Population is declining already and need to pay more money for auto loot with pets. You can get a donkey and buy a cart for 100000 and do trade runs. You can buy a house and rent npcs gear from them with contribution points. There, balanced good and bad points.
Basically they took some good ideas on paper and ruined them with crappy implementation.
Example sure Fishing is great idea but not when you automate like an afk fish botter.
The idea of having workers is a nice idea but not when it is automated via some cheap node instead of actually having/seeing viable npc workers that you might have hired because of some favor or ran into in the local bar ,whatever,they just did it about as lazy and cheap as they could.
You have some demon or whatever that you can spawn out of nowhere that gives quests,again a really dumb idea,questing is already bad enough if linear and the only game play you have but cheaping it like this is just bad.On top of that you might get some call to kill some Boss that says you need a group but everyone solos them and you also spawn them out of thin air so again crappy implementation.
Instead of finding some nice loot or crafting whatever,you simply do the old fashion Asian way of spending currency to upgrade gear/weapon to the typical +1 +2 ....to+15.This again is a VERY cheap idea to itemize gear.
Back to the lame questing,you can simply target your quest ,press the letter T and it auto takes you there,yep you don't even need to think or play,go have a sandwich.Hand holding at it's finest.
game play?Well you can spend your entire time like most i saw trying to goof around with items to make virtual currency profits "boring ..zzzz" or pvp or as per typical in these games linear questing,well and/or afk fish bot.
Thanks, I figured it would probably be as underwhelming as Arche Age. Decent ideas with horrible implementation is what we usually get.
he's been dedicating his life on hating the game so not sure if he's the most accurate person to base your opinion on
Actually WIZ hates all MMORPGS except FFXI, so he's a bit bias when it comes to newer games
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Basically they took some good ideas on paper and ruined them with crappy implementation.
Example sure Fishing is great idea but not when you automate like an afk fish botter.
The idea of having workers is a nice idea but not when it is automated via some cheap node instead of actually having/seeing viable npc workers that you might have hired because of some favor or ran into in the local bar ,whatever,they just did it about as lazy and cheap as they could.
You have some demon or whatever that you can spawn out of nowhere that gives quests,again a really dumb idea,questing is already bad enough if linear and the only game play you have but cheaping it like this is just bad.On top of that you might get some call to kill some Boss that says you need a group but everyone solos them and you also spawn them out of thin air so again crappy implementation.
Instead of finding some nice loot or crafting whatever,you simply do the old fashion Asian way of spending currency to upgrade gear/weapon to the typical +1 +2 ....to+15.This again is a VERY cheap idea to itemize gear.
Back to the lame questing,you can simply target your quest ,press the letter T and it auto takes you there,yep you don't even need to think or play,go have a sandwich.Hand holding at it's finest.
game play?Well you can spend your entire time like most i saw trying to goof around with items to make virtual currency profits "boring ..zzzz" or pvp or as per typical in these games linear questing,well and/or afk fish bot.
Thanks, I figured it would probably be as underwhelming as Arche Age. Decent ideas with horrible implementation is what we usually get.
Sounds like this was the one answer you was waiting on. Why ask and let 20 people post before him and you stick to this one comment. Seems he said what you already believed so you jumped on. Why evcen ask about the game.
Thanks, I figured it would probably be as underwhelming as Arche Age. Decent ideas with horrible implementation is what we usually get.
Sounds like this was the one answer you was waiting on. Why ask and let 20 people post before him and you stick to this one comment. Seems he said what you already believed so you jumped on. Why evcen ask about the game.
Pretty much my thoughts as well. Wizardry sounds miserable any game. I'd stay as far away as I can from his comments.
No game is perfect, and coming to terms with this imperfection is part of the ability to enjoy it and have fun with it despite the problems. Otherwise, you might just spend a lot of time hating every game under the sun under the guise that it is "lazy developer" and "bad design". If you utter these words you don't understand what it takes to work on a big project that involves many hundreds of people and which faces a ton of problems.
I am so confused. Some people seem to practically 'hate' this game and some people absolutely love it. Can someone please help with a proper pros/cons rundown of this game without some kind of stupid mmorpg bias or playstyle bias, or atleast if you have a bias acknowledge it as opinion rather than fact.
Simple. People that plays all the things this game has to offer loves it. People who skip 90% of the content to rush at lvl 50 hates it.
If you play the game how is intended to be played you'd love it. This is one of the best MMO I played in the last few years, there is always something to do, and I cannot manage to log out, there is always something else I need to do (Right now I am smelting some Bronze ingot I need in order to build my Fishing Boat) And the Cash Shop is not P2W. Honestly, just give it a go, it is only $30 Dollars.
When you say there is lots of things to do, do they serve a goal? Would someone who finished Skyrim's main quest first and never bothered with any side quests like this game?
That kinda person is more suited to action games and ARPG rather than RPG...
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Here, I'll break it down in the most simplest of terms...
It's only $30. If you end up liking it, no loss, no foul. If you end up detesting it, still no loss, no foul unless $30 means the difference between dying and getting that kidney transplant.
No other reasoning needs to be applied... the above is 100% foolproof every time.
When you say there is lots of things to do, do they serve a goal? Would someone who finished Skyrim's main quest first and never bothered with any side quests like this game?
The game is good for people that want a world to lose themselves in without the pressure of feeling like there's a specific track for them to follow.
Example: Traditional PVE Themepark MMOs have you following a very set line of quests and experiences. You can talk to other players/friends and know exactly what their experience is simply by asking them where they are. A person goes zone to zone killing and clearing quests. Those things will unlock more quests and zones for players to experience.
This game is similar in that on the surface it has very much the same thing. However, you're not forced into doing that and only that. Fishing or gathering etc are very real options to do in this game. You could do only that for days if you wish. You could spend a day just running talking to people to unlock more conversations, get better amity (faction) with npcs. You can unlock areas to travel and bring supplies to other areas and get more money. That's just some of the things you can do. The point is not everyone's experience will be the same in this game. They may experience the same things or similar, but not in the exact way - if at all.
Add onto that a really neat weather and light/dark system and you an immersive world to find yourself in. There are plenty of discussions to be had about the cash shop and the overall intent of the game, but I will say that you can thoroughly enjoy the game by spending no more than $40-$50. There is a $30 buy in option, but honestly I feel like you're going to want a pet. Having the ability to have a companion run around and pick things up for you is pretty helpful to the point of I would say strongly encouraged to get one.
But the thing about this game is you are going to have to grind. And that's a deal breaker for many. The good news is that grind isn't something that's required for a specific thing. I mean that you have options to break that up and do something else or just play at your leisure. This is not a game designed for you to just blow through it and have nothing to do at end game. In fact I would say that leveling to max level is almost an after thought when considering all the other options available to you to do in this game.
I've seen the crafting in this game compared to SWG. Can't comment on that, but I will say it is involved and takes effort and the systems are definitely well thought out.
I am so confused. Some people seem to practically 'hate' this game and some people absolutely love it. Can someone please help with a proper pros/cons rundown of this game without some kind of stupid mmorpg bias or playstyle bias, or atleast if you have a bias acknowledge it as opinion rather than fact.
Simple. People that plays all the things this game has to offer loves it. People who skip 90% of the content to rush at lvl 50 hates it.
If you play the game how is intended to be played you'd love it. This is one of the best MMO I played in the last few years, there is always something to do, and I cannot manage to log out, there is always something else I need to do (Right now I am smelting some Bronze ingot I need in order to build my Fishing Boat) And the Cash Shop is not P2W. Honestly, just give it a go, it is only $30 Dollars.
Boy do I know that feeling, there is always just one more thing to do and several hours later I realize I am still playing....
I would try it if they offered a free trial. Then I could decide whether or not I wanted to pay for it or not. Already been burned by pay-up front games that were supposed to be good and turned out to be lackluster, even terrible.
Yeah, I think what people fail to see is b2p format, mixed with high priced cash shop essentials equals a company not super confident in the longevity of their game.
I would try it if they offered a free trial. Then I could decide whether or not I wanted to pay for it or not. Already been burned by pay-up front games that were supposed to be good and turned out to be lackluster, even terrible.
Yeah, I think what people fail to see is b2p format, mixed with high priced cash shop essentials equals a company not super confident in the longevity of their game.
Nailed it.
Or could be a company that thinks it's a game worth paying box price and $15 sub. So it factors in mechanics and items that people would actually want to receive on average those continual funds.
When you say there is lots of things to do, do they serve a goal?
When they say "lots of things to do", they mean crafting... Fun? Maybe, but it does not go beyond solo mini-game, the game has no depth. Subsidiary mechanics like in any other game.
The game is very much mainstream layout - get lvls, get gear and PVP for end-game.
Still, nicely done, superb graphics and a game world with a lot of attention to detail. I guess that is mostly why people pretend the game is something it isn't - immersive(?) wrappings.
Some of the systems are mini games. Horse breeding for example. But others, workers, nodes, workshops etc. tie all together with crafting... and soon with node wars and guild sieges into quite a complex multi-player system. The last two are due at end of month if forum can be believed. It's incredibly immersive, one of the games major virtues.
It's true multi-player battling over resources etc.
To dismiss those mechanics as *all* mini-games shows a lack of knowledge about the game.
Comments
http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/6895891#Comment_6895891
This post is all my opinion, but I welcome debate on anything i have put, however, personal slander / name calling belongs in game
where of course you're welcome to call me names im often found lounging about in EvE online.
Use this code for 21days trial in eve online https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=d385aff2-794a-44a4-96f1-3967ccf6d720&action=buddy
There was no way this game was not going to be controversial. Here was a game with beautiful graphics, and a nice mix of eastern and influences in one. This alone gave it so much attention. Add to it, all the impressive elements like the character creation, crafting, economy and so on, it was bound to be a looker.
But not having a hard level cap? Immense grinding post lvl 50? Massive gear > skill duration? xp loss on death? no fast travel? can't reset your skills without paying?
These are elements of a hardcore MMO. These are the elements of a game that allows for potential abuse.
And so, there are people who are going (and have had) a really bad time. You're being harassed inside the game and told to f**k off because someone who plays many more hours a day than you and who will beat you every time due to leveling and gear being so important. These are elements that make some people turn off.
Fevir says that the developers are aware that this game is not for everyone. It could be a good sign in that they won't compromise. There was no way that a game like BDO could ever be the mainstream MMO. The question is now- Can the game remain true to its ideals. Its quest for immersion even if it goes against the trends of the rest of the genre?
I don't know if I will keep playing the game. I think it has been exciting- a fantastic experience so far, but it begins to dawn on me how time consuming this game is. It encourages you to remain in the game. to AFK farm. To set up a loop where your horse goes endless in a circle to increase its level. Or for you to fish. Minimize the game and don't turn off your computer.
It's a game where dying can have a chance of breaking your armor enchancments.
These elements are massively controversial. It's the opposite of the appeal of mass produced MMOs. As a casual gamer I wonder if this game will be able to keep offering me something. So I got a lvl 50, and the new cool awakening weapons come out. Can I even realistically do it? The grind is serious.
But on the other hand, BDO is more exciting and immersive than any game I've played for more than a decade of this kind. When you go out into the world and leave a town, it feels dangerous. Because another play can jump you. And you will lose xp. Durability decreases, repairing is expensive. you need to maintain your workers and the crafting empire and do these farmville type micro management. you have to walk everywhere and manage alts with different levels of energy.
BDO becomes very time consuming and a game of multitasking. It's a game that asks more of you than most in recent memory. We have to gas far back as Vanguard for the last time a hardcore effort was put into it like this.
But BDO doesn't seem hardcore early on. Its spirit quest handholding "navi: hey listen" sthick is themepark as hell. you press a button and it literally tells you to kill foxes, wolves, goblins, and gives rewards.
BDO is incredible interesting.
Like Fevir I am scared about BDOs future, but I am also excited. I am glad that I have experienced it because its not like anything I have played before. It's pretty clear that someone who doesn't have a open mind or who have tried to understand what the developers set out to do, was never going to like this game.
This game has a shoddy UI. It could use more world bosses and harder stuff. It could use a lot (and I do mean, a lot) more itemization and gear. It could benefit from not locking so much behind the cash shop like the uber cute pets.
But again, at the end of the day, the positives significantly outweighs the bad. This game is a massive achievement. There is no coming around that. It's not Destiny or The Division- Games that had large budgets and cool ideas wrapped in a neat hyped package. You can see the blood, sweat, tears and vision in BDO.
But that also leaves people to hate it. For some people BDO represents everything they hate about the genre. Some for cash shop reasons, some for its indifference with balance. Some for its time consuming and time wasting elements. No fast travel means so many things take forever. The hours fly away.
It's a trade off. It depends on who you are or what you want.
1) You do not have to pay anything for skill resets...ever. You can if you like, but there ultimately is no need to.
2) You do not have to hurry to lvl 55. (Yes, it will take some time. Yes, there are still plenty of other things to do. Yes, you should join a guild and participate in battles anyway.)
3) You do not de-level from exp loss. There is a point at which this part of death loss no longer matters.
4) As for gems breaking? I've now got a bank doing nothing but holding massive amounts of gems. There are also tons for sale. I have lost one green gem so far.
5) You can simply ride your horse, and it levels. You are not required to run afk circles (however, i would still recommend afk fishing).
6) The UI is customizable. Yes, it can be in your way right at the start of the game. Yes, you can fix this.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
No game is perfect, and coming to terms with this imperfection is part of the ability to enjoy it and have fun with it despite the problems. Otherwise, you might just spend a lot of time hating every game under the sun under the guise that it is "lazy developer" and "bad design". If you utter these words you don't understand what it takes to work on a big project that involves many hundreds of people and which faces a ton of problems.
People that plays all the things this game has to offer loves it.
People who skip 90% of the content to rush at lvl 50 hates it.
If you play the game how is intended to be played you'd love it.
This is one of the best MMO I played in the last few years, there is always something to do, and I cannot manage to log out, there is always something else I need to do (Right now I am smelting some Bronze ingot I need in order to build my Fishing Boat)
And the Cash Shop is not P2W.
Honestly, just give it a go, it is only $30 Dollars.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
It's only $30. If you end up liking it, no loss, no foul.
If you end up detesting it, still no loss, no foul unless $30 means the difference between dying and getting that kidney transplant.
No other reasoning needs to be applied... the above is 100% foolproof every time.
Example:
Traditional PVE Themepark MMOs have you following a very set line of quests and experiences. You can talk to other players/friends and know exactly what their experience is simply by asking them where they are. A person goes zone to zone killing and clearing quests. Those things will unlock more quests and zones for players to experience.
This game is similar in that on the surface it has very much the same thing. However, you're not forced into doing that and only that. Fishing or gathering etc are very real options to do in this game. You could do only that for days if you wish. You could spend a day just running talking to people to unlock more conversations, get better amity (faction) with npcs. You can unlock areas to travel and bring supplies to other areas and get more money. That's just some of the things you can do. The point is not everyone's experience will be the same in this game. They may experience the same things or similar, but not in the exact way - if at all.
Add onto that a really neat weather and light/dark system and you an immersive world to find yourself in. There are plenty of discussions to be had about the cash shop and the overall intent of the game, but I will say that you can thoroughly enjoy the game by spending no more than $40-$50. There is a $30 buy in option, but honestly I feel like you're going to want a pet. Having the ability to have a companion run around and pick things up for you is pretty helpful to the point of I would say strongly encouraged to get one.
But the thing about this game is you are going to have to grind. And that's a deal breaker for many. The good news is that grind isn't something that's required for a specific thing. I mean that you have options to break that up and do something else or just play at your leisure. This is not a game designed for you to just blow through it and have nothing to do at end game. In fact I would say that leveling to max level is almost an after thought when considering all the other options available to you to do in this game.
I've seen the crafting in this game compared to SWG. Can't comment on that, but I will say it is involved and takes effort and the systems are definitely well thought out.
The game is very much mainstream layout - get lvls, get gear and PVP for end-game.
Still, nicely done, superb graphics and a game world with a lot of attention to detail. I guess that is mostly why people pretend the game is something it isn't - immersive(?) wrappings.
It's true multi-player battling over resources etc.
To dismiss those mechanics as *all* mini-games shows a lack of knowledge about the game.