There are few games that could work this way. City of Heroes (people will love that), Star Wars: Galaxies, Matrix Online. To be honest emulators fail to deliver level of support original companies had. Not to mention CoH and MxO are unavailiable at all.
The US passed a law last year that said that any program/ application/ game that is unusable because you cannot access a login service (usually because the a/p/g was shut down) could be emulated legally. That is why the SWG private server, amongst others, is not being contested.
The reason why CoH has not been emulated yet is because the code for the game is a wreck. Matt Miller called it 'a bowl of spaghetti'. I'm not sure if anyone that does not have their hands into the code day and night could do anything with it.
If all I could get was an emulated CoH server, well, that is what I would play Even with lack of support I would still play it.
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
There are few games that could work this way. City of Heroes (people will love that), Star Wars: Galaxies, Matrix Online. To be honest emulators fail to deliver level of support original companies had. Not to mention CoH and MxO are unavailiable at all.
The US passed a law last year that said that any program/ application/ game that is unusable because you cannot access a login service (usually because the a/p/g was shut down) could be emulated legally. That is why the SWG private server, amongst others, is not being contested.
The reason why CoH has not been emulated yet is because the code for the game is a wreck. Matt Miller called it 'a bowl of spaghetti'. I'm not sure if anyone that does not have their hands into the code day and night could do anything with it.
If all I could get was an emulated CoH server, well, that is what I would play Even with lack of support I would still play it.
Care to link that or at least give some specific information?
I find it hard to believe that the US Government would ignore copyright law.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
The importance for players - maybe, but is there enough money in it that's worth the effort for the dev studios?
That's the real question for legacy servers.
If money > effort of cost doing it = maybe
Old code has exploits and bugs that get fixed with patches so it's a pain in the ass to do legacy servers properly - I know most devs don't want to look at fixing code thats 10 years old.
Again IMO it's simply not worth if for most studios.
Of course we have the baffling case of City of Heroes, a game that was fully patched and ready to release another update.
NCsoft had a way out. Several groups offered to buy the IP, and according to what I read, the offer from MWM was supposedly quite good. They could have looked like heroes, releasing their dead IP to another company that would take care of their fan base. And they would not have to support the game in any way, shape or form. So why did they not accept any of these offers?
Did they think that the CoH fanbase was going to immediately jump to another of their games? When they shuttered CoH, the fanbase was quite angry with NCsoft. I would bet that a lot of these players will never buy an NCsoft game ever again. Just like a lot of SWG players vowed never to play another SOE game ever again. Hmm, I wonder how many angry former CoH players did not buy Wildstar because of how NCsoft handled the CoH shutdown?
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
NCsoft had a way out. Several groups offered to buy the IP, and according to what I read, the offer from MWM was supposedly quite good. They could have looked like heroes, releasing their dead IP to another company that would take care of their fan base. And they would not have to support the game in any way, shape or form. So why did they not accept any of these offers?
Maybe they wanted to keep thier IP?
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I'd resub to WoW if I could play Burning Crusade as that's when I had the most fun but I don't see how it'd work out for them. I never would have played TBC forever, each player they bring back only for the legacy servers would have a shelf life attached before they get their fill of the good times and leave again. Current players may have some fun as well but they're already willing to play modern WoW so you're not adding longevity to their term as your customers. The vast majority of folk would be back for a month, that's it.
It wouldn't be cheap, either. Blizzard would have to get this exactly right, if my SV Hunter can't accidentally clip their auto attacks I'll be gone, because it's the way the spec played that I enjoyed more than the content tuned at the time for max level and class balance. It isn't as simple as finding some servers and pressing a few buttons, if it was it'd have been done already. Chances are the costs of doing this outweigh the profit potential.
As much as I want to bash this, I would love to play FFXI at 75 with only a handful of the newer additions past that point (capacity point system, larger merit pool, abyssea but only with an entry at 75, etc)
As much as I want to bash this, I would love to play FFXI at 75 with only a handful of the newer additions past that point (capacity point system, larger merit pool, abyssea but only with an entry at 75, etc)
that is the problem legacy people do not want legacy products....they want legacy+
......Instead of trying to resurrect Asheron's Call, support games like Project Gorgon. Instead of trying to make some EQ snapshot, support Pantheon.
I have supported both PG and Pantheon, but while I am waiting on those it is okay for me to want to play classic games
You can play and start investing your time in PG right now. You don't have to wait.
I know, thank you (sincere ty not sarcastic ty ) - I have played and I like what they are doing. I am waiting for the game to come further along in development.
As much as I want to bash this, I would love to play FFXI at 75 with only a handful of the newer additions past that point (capacity point system, larger merit pool, abyssea but only with an entry at 75, etc)
that is the problem legacy people do not want legacy products....they want legacy+
Nah you can't lump everyone together like that. I want pure classic. Personally I feel it is the way to go to cause the least amount of headaches. I am a little worried about everyone piping in the "I want x...y...z..."
There are few games that could work this way. City of Heroes (people will love that), Star Wars: Galaxies, Matrix Online. To be honest emulators fail to deliver level of support original companies had. Not to mention CoH and MxO are unavailiable at all.
The US passed a law last year that said that any program/ application/ game that is unusable because you cannot access a login service (usually because the a/p/g was shut down) could be emulated legally. That is why the SWG private server, amongst others, is not being contested.
The reason why CoH has not been emulated yet is because the code for the game is a wreck. Matt Miller called it 'a bowl of spaghetti'. I'm not sure if anyone that does not have their hands into the code day and night could do anything with it.
If all I could get was an emulated CoH server, well, that is what I would play Even with lack of support I would still play it.
Care to link that or at least give some specific information?
I find it hard to believe that the US Government would ignore copyright law.
I was actually linked to the article from a post in the MMORPG.com forums. The key to the entire law was the programs had to be proven to be inaccessible by normal methods.
Having trouble tracking down the link. I have to go to work, I will continue looking for it when I get home
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
I was speaking to @BillMurphy and said that I found it interesting that we have this article literally wanting to recapture the past and his review about Black Desert and "moving the genre forward". His response was that "BDO is a step back to the past of MMOs". He's right, though I would argue that what players should be clamoring for are new games with "old fashioned" features like EQ or VanWoW had. To me, that's true progress -- just look at some of the games in development for those trying to both move things forward and bring back favorite features from the past (Pantheon, Elyria, to name two).
You mean features like spamming LFG in Ironforge for hours, waiting weeks for rare spawns only to have them killed by somebody else while you took a bathroom break, running in circles for hours at a time farming the same mobs over and over again because there's no content, dying and losing that level you just spent two weeks grinding out because the server connection dropped, bite sized zones full of featureless terrain, the need to form a group just to go to the outhouse and wipe your ass... those kind of features? Because you can have those features.
BDO has actual content, systems, and things to do, as do many modern games. Games like EQ or vanilla WoW didn't. How somebody could confuse a lack of features for features is quite beyond me, especially somebody who writes for an MMO site.
It's not a 'step back to the past'. Quite frankly, that's an incredibly stupid thing to say, and just positively reeks of historical revisionism fueled by nostalgia.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
I don't condone them but Private Servers are a reality. They will exist no matter what.
Now if it is as many say and having legacy servers is not financially viable, then what is the harm in letting "Not for Profit" fan run legacy servers exist. High quality fan run servers like Nostralius would naturally counter attack the sleezball ones. As soon as money is involved its time to slam the hammer down.
Sorry but I believe that after a company has profited hundreds of millions and billions of dollars it is just good business to throw your fans and customers a bone every once in awhile.
I don't condone them but Private Servers are a reality. They will exist no matter what.
Now if it is as many say and having legacy servers is not financially viable, then what is the harm in letting "Not for Profit" fan run legacy servers exist. High quality fan run servers like Nostralius would naturally counter attack the sleezball ones. As soon as money is involved its time to slam the hammer down.
Sorry but I believe that after a company has profited hundreds of millions and billions of dollars it is just good business to throw your fans and customers a bone every once in awhile.
In the end it is good business.
Good business is controlling your brand, products, IP's. If people do not like it go change the laws...till them pirate servers are wrong and should be shutdown.
I really doubt that most companies keep base old code around. It is a living thing, parts added, parts taken away.
Easy to say just give us the old base game... but i doubt that is even an option for a lot of companies.
Just take a look at our own lives, all the old computer files, and what not you have had over the last 5-10 years. Could you find, and use a hard drive, or the info from one, that has had the code worked on by multiple people over the years? Now multiply that by like a factor of 1000...to the size and scope of a working, living, MMO that has been tinkered with for 5-10 years.
Sounds kind of daunting to me.
As to the demand to close the servers down, just has to be done. You let these things go and there is no telling if or when some screwy court will determine that letting it go is a "precedent" and then what would the mmo world look like? Having servers pop up everywhere for games both new and old. Pure chaos, and even more reasons for companies to stay away from making MMO's
I don't condone them but Private Servers are a reality. They will exist no matter what.
Now if it is as many say and having legacy servers is not financially viable, then what is the harm in letting "Not for Profit" fan run legacy servers exist. High quality fan run servers like Nostralius would naturally counter attack the sleezball ones. As soon as money is involved its time to slam the hammer down.
Sorry but I believe that after a company has profited hundreds of millions and billions of dollars it is just good business to throw your fans and customers a bone every once in awhile.
In the end it is good business.
Good business is controlling your brand, products, IP's. If people do not like it go change the laws...till them pirate servers are wrong and should be shutdown.
Agreed. Any company that doesn't defend their IP is asking for a whole heap of problems down the road.
If Blizzard felt like any type of a legacy server was in their best interest they would have made one by now. Regardless of what people think or say, creating a separate rule server does divert resources from the main game. Additionally, how much is this really worth to the studio itself? So they open a vanilla server, thousands come back to play for awhile, but how long before the population drops? How many are truly just rose colored glasses people who will start to play and think to themselves, oh yeah...this is what it was like, and stop playing again. I would be surprised if the amount who would truly play a vanilla server for years would number more than a few hundred.
For games that are completely gone. Well that's potentially a different story. However, again, a team would need to go about things the right way and try to get permission from the owners of the IP. It's a long shot yes, but you never know, with the right presentation, someone might get lucky.
Finally, yup losing things that you love sucks. However, that's also just part of life. Learning to let go and holding on to memories is just part of the human experience. After all, nothing lasts forever.
I am more passionate about Vanilla WoW than any other game I've ever played. It's a fantastic game that I deeply enjoy. Until a better game comes along (doubt it), I'll continue playing Vanilla in whatever way I can. Unfortunately the only choice I have right now is private servers.
Blizzard, my wallet is patiently waiting to open, once you decide to launch Vanilla servers.
The importance for players - maybe, but is there enough money in it that's worth the effort for the dev studios?
That's the real question for legacy servers.
If money > effort of cost doing it = maybe
Old code has exploits and bugs that get fixed with patches so it's a pain in the ass to do legacy servers properly - I know most devs don't want to look at fixing code thats 10 years old.
Again IMO it's simply not worth if for most studios.
Sometimes things should be done because it's the generous thing to do, not only when it turns a profit.
Call it generating "goodwill" or remembering who made you.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I don't condone them but Private Servers are a reality. They will exist no matter what.
Now if it is as many say and having legacy servers is not financially viable, then what is the harm in letting "Not for Profit" fan run legacy servers exist. High quality fan run servers like Nostralius would naturally counter attack the sleezball ones. As soon as money is involved its time to slam the hammer down.
Sorry but I believe that after a company has profited hundreds of millions and billions of dollars it is just good business to throw your fans and customers a bone every once in awhile.
In the end it is good business.
Good business is controlling your brand, products, IP's. If people do not like it go change the laws...till them pirate servers are wrong and should be shutdown.
You mean trying to control your IP. It's costing them a lot of money to try to do something that they will never truly ever do. They have as much chance of controlling private servers as they did controlling chinese gold farmers.
So how do you combat the RMT market? Oh ya that's right, by offering the same services.
The importance for players - maybe, but is there enough money in it that's worth the effort for the dev studios?
That's the real question for legacy servers.
If money > effort of cost doing it = maybe
Old code has exploits and bugs that get fixed with patches so it's a pain in the ass to do legacy servers properly - I know most devs don't want to look at fixing code thats 10 years old.
Again IMO it's simply not worth if for most studios.
Sometimes things should be done because it's the generous thing to do, not only when it turns a profit.
Call it generating "goodwill" or remembering who made you.
Easy to say when it is not you putting in the extra work.
I don't condone them but Private Servers are a reality. They will exist no matter what.
Now if it is as many say and having legacy servers is not financially viable, then what is the harm in letting "Not for Profit" fan run legacy servers exist. High quality fan run servers like Nostralius would naturally counter attack the sleezball ones. As soon as money is involved its time to slam the hammer down.
Sorry but I believe that after a company has profited hundreds of millions and billions of dollars it is just good business to throw your fans and customers a bone every once in awhile.
In the end it is good business.
Good business is controlling your brand, products, IP's. If people do not like it go change the laws...till them pirate servers are wrong and should be shutdown.
You mean trying to control your IP. It's costing them a lot of money to try to do something that they will never truly ever do. They have as much chance of controlling private servers as they did controlling chinese gold farmers.
So how do you combat the RMT market? Oh ya that's right, by offering the same services.
none of you have yet to prove this "lot of money" would exist beyond a few months that would not cover the costs.
Comments
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
The reason why CoH has not been emulated yet is because the code for the game is a wreck. Matt Miller called it 'a bowl of spaghetti'. I'm not sure if anyone that does not have their hands into the code day and night could do anything with it.
If all I could get was an emulated CoH server, well, that is what I would play Even with lack of support I would still play it.
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
I find it hard to believe that the US Government would ignore copyright law.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
NCsoft had a way out. Several groups offered to buy the IP, and according to what I read, the offer from MWM was supposedly quite good. They could have looked like heroes, releasing their dead IP to another company that would take care of their fan base. And they would not have to support the game in any way, shape or form. So why did they not accept any of these offers?
Did they think that the CoH fanbase was going to immediately jump to another of their games? When they shuttered CoH, the fanbase was quite angry with NCsoft. I would bet that a lot of these players will never buy an NCsoft game ever again. Just like a lot of SWG players vowed never to play another SOE game ever again. Hmm, I wonder how many angry former CoH players did not buy Wildstar because of how NCsoft handled the CoH shutdown?
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
It wouldn't be cheap, either. Blizzard would have to get this exactly right, if my SV Hunter can't accidentally clip their auto attacks I'll be gone, because it's the way the spec played that I enjoyed more than the content tuned at the time for max level and class balance. It isn't as simple as finding some servers and pressing a few buttons, if it was it'd have been done already. Chances are the costs of doing this outweigh the profit potential.
that is the problem legacy people do not want legacy products....they want legacy+
Having trouble tracking down the link. I have to go to work, I will continue looking for it when I get home
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
BDO has actual content, systems, and things to do, as do many modern games. Games like EQ or vanilla WoW didn't. How somebody could confuse a lack of features for features is quite beyond me, especially somebody who writes for an MMO site.
It's not a 'step back to the past'. Quite frankly, that's an incredibly stupid thing to say, and just positively reeks of historical revisionism fueled by nostalgia.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
#IStandWithVic
Now if it is as many say and having legacy servers is not financially viable, then what is the harm in letting "Not for Profit" fan run legacy servers exist. High quality fan run servers like Nostralius would naturally counter attack the sleezball ones. As soon as money is involved its time to slam the hammer down.
Sorry but I believe that after a company has profited hundreds of millions and billions of dollars it is just good business to throw your fans and customers a bone every once in awhile.
In the end it is good business.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Good business is controlling your brand, products, IP's. If people do not like it go change the laws...till them pirate servers are wrong and should be shutdown.
Easy to say just give us the old base game... but i doubt that is even an option for a lot of companies.
Just take a look at our own lives, all the old computer files, and what not you have had over the last 5-10 years. Could you find, and use a hard drive, or the info from one, that has had the code worked on by multiple people over the years? Now multiply that by like a factor of 1000...to the size and scope of a working, living, MMO that has been tinkered with for 5-10 years.
Sounds kind of daunting to me.
As to the demand to close the servers down, just has to be done. You let these things go and there is no telling if or when some screwy court will determine that letting it go is a "precedent" and then what would the mmo world look like? Having servers pop up everywhere for games both new and old. Pure chaos, and even more reasons for companies to stay away from making MMO's
If Blizzard felt like any type of a legacy server was in their best interest they would have made one by now. Regardless of what people think or say, creating a separate rule server does divert resources from the main game. Additionally, how much is this really worth to the studio itself? So they open a vanilla server, thousands come back to play for awhile, but how long before the population drops? How many are truly just rose colored glasses people who will start to play and think to themselves, oh yeah...this is what it was like, and stop playing again. I would be surprised if the amount who would truly play a vanilla server for years would number more than a few hundred.
For games that are completely gone. Well that's potentially a different story. However, again, a team would need to go about things the right way and try to get permission from the owners of the IP. It's a long shot yes, but you never know, with the right presentation, someone might get lucky.
Finally, yup losing things that you love sucks. However, that's also just part of life. Learning to let go and holding on to memories is just part of the human experience. After all, nothing lasts forever.
Blizzard, my wallet is patiently waiting to open, once you decide to launch Vanilla servers.
Sometimes things should be done because it's the generous thing to do, not only when it turns a profit.
Call it generating "goodwill" or remembering who made you.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
So how do you combat the RMT market? Oh ya that's right, by offering the same services.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
none of you have yet to prove this "lot of money" would exist beyond a few months that would not cover the costs.