I just hopped into Warlords of Draenor after being gone since the thunder king to try to experience the content before the next expansion hits and just realized how overwhelming hopping back into a game so late in it's life cycle is. With Vanilla, you started at level 1 like everyone else and could level your character up without having to worry about tons of baggage leftover from previous expansions. With WoW right now, you jump in and are faced with a choice of either skipping all the old content that no one is playing, but you haven't seen yet, or try to buck through it all and hope you can make it to the expansion in time to enjoy yourself.
Vanilla sounds appealing because we start with a clean slate: nothing left over from previous adventures.
Imagine if Vanilla WoW proves to be more popular than the current version. It would be a major embarrassment for Blizzard.
Idk if so much for Blizzard... it would just show WoW is a popular IP not matter the era for Blizzard as it always has been.
The major embarrassment would be more so on the current development staff working on latest expansions/content patches than WoW/Blizzard brand as a whole.
Maybe the current development staff needs a wake up call to improve on what the playerbase wants or maybe Blizzard is saving them the embarrassment.
Long answer. Why would they? There really is no proof that a legacy server or two would make money for them. I know many people will hold up the (illegal) private servers as examples that it would but that is not a good measure. Those are free. It costs nothing but bandwidth. If Blizzard took the time and labor hours to recreate the vanilla experience there may not be enough people who would actually pay to play them to make a good ROI for the company.
Even if there was an initial rush what would be the long term play time of each player be? I believe Blizzard has had this conversation more than once over the years and decided their best use of team resources is to use them on moving the game forward not back. The WOW development team is not as large as it once was. Blizzard has other games that require labor hours as well. As a company you have to allocate those hours in the best way possible for the forward growth of your entire business, not just become myopic and focus on one game. A game that has seen it's best days behind it.
The market has changed. The genre has changed. The player base has changed. Of those playing on the Vanilla server how many would actually pay for it? I seriously doubt it would equal even half of the active player base the server had. The ROI is just not there. Blizzard has other IPs to think about. D3 is humming, Hearthstone is a huge hit, HotS, Starcraft and now Overwatch. Plus the often rumored classic remasters of their older games like D2 and Warcraft. Blizzard has no need to do this. In my opinion nor should they.
I am looking forward to new games, not games that have been on the market for years. There are many I am looking forward to.
Remasters of their old games are in the works? Must be a profitable venture then. So why would WoW be different?
Could the same argument be said for D2 vs D3? And yet it's profitable for Blizz to remaster D2
Remasters of their old games are in the works? Must be a profitable venture then. So why would WoW be different?
Could the same argument be said for D2 vs D3? And yet it's profitable for Blizz to remaster D2
Two things spring to mind right off the bat:
1) Sheer size - Unlike WoW, the others are complete games and relatively small size-wise by today's standards. Additionally, the "remastering" is really mainly making them compatible for today's hardware. Read the most recent patches.
2) WoW is, despite what some say, an actively developed working story in progress. Until they have finished the stories they want to tell, remastering in any sense spoken of here isn't going to happen.
Well, here's my position: either Blizzard implements Legacy servers themselves or they back the fuck off when the community comes up with their own solution, like Nostalrius. Because when Blizzard refuses to provide the solution people are asking for but then also seeks out and destroys community-created alternatives, they're being a bunch of assholes. Plain and simple.
Before these recent events, I'd never once considered playing on a private WoW server. Now? That's the only place I would consider playing. I'll not pay Blizzard another subscription fee until they get their collective heads out of their asses and address this issue appropriately.
I think that's a bit harsh, if they felt it would be as worth while as you suggest they'd most likely do it. Not doing it isn't being "assholes"... it's simply just not in their cards for whatever reason (apparently). WHich isn't a nefarious thing, it's just a matter of where they want their manpower. Vanilla servers isn't as simple as turning them on and letting people play. I think SOE/DB learned that the hard way. It's also a matter of revenue (which in itself isn't being "assholes") it's matter of competing with themselves with expansions, etc.. That's just being business minded which is in their nature.
As for community made free servers, again that's simply being business minded. It's not being assholes. it's just another matter of self made competition by allowing them. Why allow a free alternative to the product you're trying to monetize? That's just bad business.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I often wonder what today's WoW players would make of the vanilla version of the game ( if they were not around playing it back in 2004-2007) I suspect they would be quite shocked at how much more in depth and how much harder it was .
I would love to see Vanilla servers because those initial years in WoW were the best time I had in an mmo if Blizzard had kept up the quality and challenge I saw in Vanilla , TBC and to a lesser extent Wotlk I would still be there today .
But I am glad I left WoW now and got to experience other games . I am in Black Desert now and its the first time in 11 years I have been enjoying a game almost as much as vanilla WoW . Rift has been fun too .
Remasters of their old games are in the works? Must be a profitable venture then. So why would WoW be different?
Could the same argument be said for D2 vs D3? And yet it's profitable for Blizz to remaster D2
Two things spring to mind right off the bat:
1) Sheer size - Unlike WoW, the others are complete games and relatively small size-wise by today's standards. Additionally, the "remastering" is really mainly making them compatible for today's hardware. Read the most recent patches.
2) WoW is, despite what some say, an actively developed working story in progress. Until they have finished the stories they want to tell, remastering in any sense spoken of here isn't going to happen.
Remasters of their old games are in the works? Must be a profitable venture then. So why would WoW be different?
Could the same argument be said for D2 vs D3? And yet it's profitable for Blizz to remaster D2
Two things spring to mind right off the bat:
1) Sheer size - Unlike WoW, the others are complete games and relatively small size-wise by today's standards. Additionally, the "remastering" is really mainly making them compatible for today's hardware. Read the most recent patches.
2) WoW is, despite what some say, an actively developed working story in progress. Until they have finished the stories they want to tell, remastering in any sense spoken of here isn't going to happen.
Agreed.
From Blizzard:
“There is still a large Diablo II community around the world,” the
developer wrote. “We thank you for continuing to play and slay with us.
“This journey starts by making Diablo II run on modern platforms, but it does not end there.”
Working on the code for classic computer games that are still being played is one thing but an MMO?
That is a whole other animal.
Of course it's a different animal. But the hurdles are a hell of a lot smaller today. All the Indy MMORPG's and private servers attest to this.
I said it in that other thread and I'll say it again here. Blizz will never open their own classic/vanilla/legacy/oldschool servers because if they did they would end up selling less expansions for the core game. Maybe if they came up with a way to sell expansions for the legacy servers as well they might do it but that would drive the production costs sky high and would surely make the whole venture not worthwhile. So unless expansion production stops on the core game, forget about official legacy servers.
Remasters of their old games are in the works? Must be a profitable venture then. So why would WoW be different?
Could the same argument be said for D2 vs D3? And yet it's profitable for Blizz to remaster D2
Two things spring to mind right off the bat:
1) Sheer size - Unlike WoW, the others are complete games and relatively small size-wise by today's standards. Additionally, the "remastering" is really mainly making them compatible for today's hardware. Read the most recent patches.
2) WoW is, despite what some say, an actively developed working story in progress. Until they have finished the stories they want to tell, remastering in any sense spoken of here isn't going to happen.
Agreed.
From Blizzard:
“There is still a large Diablo II community around the world,” the
developer wrote. “We thank you for continuing to play and slay with us.
“This journey starts by making Diablo II run on modern platforms, but it does not end there.”
Working on the code for classic computer games that are still being played is one thing but an MMO?
That is a whole other animal.
Of course it's a different animal. But the hurdles are a hell of a lot smaller today. All the Indy MMORPG's and private servers attest to this.
Diablo is a story in progress that is told through (so far) three separate stand-alone games, not in a single evolving game world like World of Warcraft. It's not just a different animal, it's an alien creature.
Never will happen. Too many changes, too many builds...
Vanilla content would not be the same without Vanilla classes and talent trees, equipment and balance, etc.
You couldn't roll back the clock on some things and then implement more current patches/versions, it'd take far too much in resources and time to ever be viable.
With WoW right now, you jump in and are faced with a choice of either skipping all the old content that no one is playing,
This is not true. I recently purchased a character boost because trying to level a toon on a low-population server was so frustrating. Every quest from 10 to 40 had people doing the same quests I was on. I tried playing at all different times and each time if there was a unique to kill there would be 3 or 4 others waiting for it to spawn. If I had to kill 10 boars, 3 other people were there killing them. By the time I got to level 40 I was so frustrated with waiting, I just gave up and bought the boost.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
Done. Legally, it maybe wrong, but when you see a line like this,
'Blizzard has been very clear, either in writing or in silence, that it wants to invest its money in the most profitable way possible for its shareholders, investors, and for employee profit sharing.'
Blizzard gain no support or sympathy from me in this matter.
They didn't do it for legal reasons, they did because their ego took a beating. Players found playing the current WoW so bad they were willing to play on a private vanilla server, It gained players while they losed them. Also I would put money on it this is the reason they won't make legacy servers. If they put them up and they do well or even gain more players than the live, it's just confirmation that the current game and direction is bad and they fucked up. Why would the self-inflect that on themselves?
Might be chatting out my arse, but I don't buy all the current excuses they're making
Remasters of their old games are in the works? Must be a profitable venture then. So why would WoW be different?
Could the same argument be said for D2 vs D3? And yet it's profitable for Blizz to remaster D2
Two things spring to mind right off the bat:
1) Sheer size - Unlike WoW, the others are complete games and relatively small size-wise by today's standards. Additionally, the "remastering" is really mainly making them compatible for today's hardware. Read the most recent patches.
2) WoW is, despite what some say, an actively developed working story in progress. Until they have finished the stories they want to tell, remastering in any sense spoken of here isn't going to happen.
Agreed.
From Blizzard:
“There is still a large Diablo II community around the world,” the
developer wrote. “We thank you for continuing to play and slay with us.
“This journey starts by making Diablo II run on modern platforms, but it does not end there.”
Working on the code for classic computer games that are still being played is one thing but an MMO?
That is a whole other animal.
Of course it's a different animal. But the hurdles are a hell of a lot smaller today. All the Indy MMORPG's and private servers attest to this.
Diablo is a story in progress that is told through (so far) three separate stand-alone games, not in a single evolving game world like World of Warcraft. It's not just a different animal, it's an alien creature.
My lol is meant in a good way.
I still feel that letting people replay, and a younger generation experience an awesome version of a great MMORPG is a good thing.
There is a reason that WoW became so popular.... and it all started with Vanilla.
Remasters of their old games are in the works? Must be a profitable venture then. So why would WoW be different?
Could the same argument be said for D2 vs D3? And yet it's profitable for Blizz to remaster D2
Two things spring to mind right off the bat:
1) Sheer size - Unlike WoW, the others are complete games and relatively small size-wise by today's standards. Additionally, the "remastering" is really mainly making them compatible for today's hardware. Read the most recent patches.
2) WoW is, despite what some say, an actively developed working story in progress. Until they have finished the stories they want to tell, remastering in any sense spoken of here isn't going to happen.
Agreed.
From Blizzard:
“There is still a large Diablo II community around the world,” the
developer wrote. “We thank you for continuing to play and slay with us.
“This journey starts by making Diablo II run on modern platforms, but it does not end there.”
Working on the code for classic computer games that are still being played is one thing but an MMO?
That is a whole other animal.
Of course it's a different animal. But the hurdles are a hell of a lot smaller today. All the Indy MMORPG's and private servers attest to this.
That depends on what you mean by "hurdles"... If they're going to offer a proper service, they need a team for it, Which maintaining something at the level a company like Blizzard does, is not even remotely the same as what it takes to run a indie studio/game..It's a matter of whether they feel they could meet expectation more or less. while also continuing to evolve the main game. Which two different versions of creates a crux in the very nature of evolving & meeting expectations ( who do you give what? ).. etc.. There are a lot of logistics involved in that.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Blizzard has no reason to establish vanilla version servers.
Yes, many players like myself are fond of the first incarnation of WoW and the TBC expansion. I played on Nostalrius and had fun plus i met some nice people as well.
However, splitting the player base between "modern" and vanilla WoW makes absolute no sense. Not while they have invested so much, as they keep telling us, in Legion.
Blizzard has no reason to establish vanilla version servers.
Yes, many players like myself are fond of the first incarnation of WoW and the TBC expansion. I played on Nostalrius and had fun plus i met some nice people as well.
However, splitting the player base between "modern" and vanilla WoW makes absolute no sense. Not while they have invested so much, as they keep telling us, in Legion.
Your argument puts forth the notion, that releasing Legacy servers would be too popular.
Nothing will change. Blizzard won't open legacy server(s) soon, private servers as general phenomenon will continue to exist even if they will get close&desist individually.
Private MMORPG servers is not something new. They existed almost as long as MMORPGs existed. Ultima Online got them quite fast, as some game updates were not liked by big enough portion of playerbase.
Well, here's my position: either Blizzard implements Legacy servers themselves or they back the fuck off when the community comes up with their own solution, like Nostalrius. Because when Blizzard refuses to provide the solution people are asking for but then also seeks out and destroys community-created alternatives, they're being a bunch of assholes. Plain and simple.
Before these recent events, I'd never once considered playing on a private WoW server. Now? That's the only place I would consider playing. I'll not pay Blizzard another subscription fee until they get their collective heads out of their asses and address this issue appropriately.
Except it's their IP, and their property. I wonder if you would have the same attitude if some were to take your work and use it for something you didn't want it used for?
I strongly suspect you would be one of the first people to rain down holy hell on someone using something of yours without permission.
Tough to say .... could be you're right, but I'd have to be in that situation. However, I think if I were serious about protecting my IP I would provide the service to my customers myself, removing the necessity to seek illegitimate alternatives. Because that's the smart way of handling this. As opposed to the stupid way, which is them politically raping themselves by shutting down the service without providing a legitimate alternative.
The best way to combat gold sellers is the WoW token. The best way to combat private legacy servers is to create an official one. Give the customers what they want. Everyone wins. Refuse to give your customers what they want and you get this situation.
I think you need to think more like a larger company. Whenever people on these forums talk about game companies, especially large companies, they think like they are running a "small company".
Large companies are concerned about Brand Identity, how not to dilute their Brand. Additionally, if they are publicly traded then they have to show that they are doing everything they can to keep the shareholders happy.
Remember "you" are also a shareholder. Not sure in what but I imagine you have some sort of retirement fund going, even if it's supplied by your company. If you found out that the money you were putting in there could have been "more" but for the actions/inactions of the companies in your portfoliio you might be pissed.
If you and others thought that the companies you invested your money in were not handling it well, you could sue them. Probably another reason Blizzard shut these guys down. High profile company that is, to them, diluting their brand.
Lastly, is their budget for putting together a classic server? While Blizzard might have a lot of money, and remember they have to pay dividends to shareholders, they also have their money budgeted for most everything in their upcoming fiscal year. Including plan for how much they want to grow. If they are looking at X profit and them using money for something that is not going to bring them a lot of bang for the buck is going to affect that they aren't going to want to do it. And where is that money going to come from? whose budget?
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
also this might come as a chock to some people... ut when all devs work for free it is easy to get by on 400$ a month... but a team of 20 devs actually cost a fair bit if they are to be paid properly.
Comments
Vanilla sounds appealing because we start with a clean slate: nothing left over from previous adventures.
The major embarrassment would be more so on the current development staff working on latest expansions/content patches than WoW/Blizzard brand as a whole.
Maybe the current development staff needs a wake up call to improve on what the playerbase wants or maybe Blizzard is saving them the embarrassment.
Could the same argument be said for D2 vs D3? And yet it's profitable for Blizz to remaster D2
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
1) Sheer size - Unlike WoW, the others are complete games and relatively small size-wise by today's standards. Additionally, the "remastering" is really mainly making them compatible for today's hardware. Read the most recent patches.
2) WoW is, despite what some say, an actively developed working story in progress. Until they have finished the stories they want to tell, remastering in any sense spoken of here isn't going to happen.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
As for community made free servers, again that's simply being business minded. It's not being assholes. it's just another matter of self made competition by allowing them. Why allow a free alternative to the product you're trying to monetize? That's just bad business.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I would love to see Vanilla servers because those initial years in WoW were the best time I had in an mmo if Blizzard had kept up the quality and challenge I saw in Vanilla , TBC and to a lesser extent Wotlk I would still be there today .
But I am glad I left WoW now and got to experience other games . I am in Black Desert now and its the first time in 11 years I have been enjoying a game almost as much as vanilla WoW . Rift has been fun too .
Point #2 Again D2 and D3 has the same issue.
Does current WoW negate all the stories that happened in Vanilla WoW? Why is it bad to let people enjoy something that they enjoyed in the past?
Some of the old dungeons were masterpieces. It's actually quite sad that a new younger generation are unable to legally enjoy them.
A shame really.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
So unless expansion production stops on the core game, forget about official legacy servers.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Vanilla content would not be the same without Vanilla classes and talent trees, equipment and balance, etc.
You couldn't roll back the clock on some things and then implement more current patches/versions, it'd take far too much in resources and time to ever be viable.
Done. Legally, it maybe wrong, but when you see a line like this,
'Blizzard has been very clear, either in writing or in silence, that it wants to invest its money in the most profitable way possible for its shareholders, investors, and for employee profit sharing.'
Blizzard gain no support or sympathy from me in this matter.
They didn't do it for legal reasons, they did because their ego took a beating. Players found playing the current WoW so bad they were willing to play on a private vanilla server, It gained players while they losed them. Also I would put money on it this is the reason they won't make legacy servers. If they put them up and they do well or even gain more players than the live, it's just confirmation that the current game and direction is bad and they fucked up. Why would the self-inflect that on themselves?
Might be chatting out my arse, but I don't buy all the current excuses they're making
I still feel that letting people replay, and a younger generation experience an awesome version of a great MMORPG is a good thing.
There is a reason that WoW became so popular.... and it all started with Vanilla.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Yes, many players like myself are fond of the first incarnation of WoW and the TBC expansion. I played on Nostalrius and had fun plus i met some nice people as well.
However, splitting the player base between "modern" and vanilla WoW makes absolute no sense. Not while they have invested so much, as they keep telling us, in Legion.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Private MMORPG servers is not something new. They existed almost as long as MMORPGs existed. Ultima Online got them quite fast, as some game updates were not liked by big enough portion of playerbase.
I also lov how the "pro" side keep on inventing new crazy reasons why this would actually be viable.
This have been a good conversation
Large companies are concerned about Brand Identity, how not to dilute their Brand. Additionally, if they are publicly traded then they have to show that they are doing everything they can to keep the shareholders happy.
Remember "you" are also a shareholder. Not sure in what but I imagine you have some sort of retirement fund going, even if it's supplied by your company. If you found out that the money you were putting in there could have been "more" but for the actions/inactions of the companies in your portfoliio you might be pissed.
If you and others thought that the companies you invested your money in were not handling it well, you could sue them. Probably another reason Blizzard shut these guys down. High profile company that is, to them, diluting their brand.
Lastly, is their budget for putting together a classic server? While Blizzard might have a lot of money, and remember they have to pay dividends to shareholders, they also have their money budgeted for most everything in their upcoming fiscal year. Including plan for how much they want to grow. If they are looking at X profit and them using money for something that is not going to bring them a lot of bang for the buck is going to affect that they aren't going to want to do it. And where is that money going to come from? whose budget?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
This have been a good conversation
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee