If you look at the scope for the game, the funds they are asking for and the expected time for delivery you understand that Q3 2017 release isn't realistic. At one point they will realize that the game simply isn't ready for a full release and their cash is running out and they will start chasing funds, $900k doesn't last long.
The repopulation ran two kickstarter campaigns and three campaigns on their website and a steam early access release to gather enough funds and even before their struggle with the game engine license they weren't remotely close to finishing the game. Shroud of the Avatar became more about selling buildings and towns than being about the game and its also out on steam early access. Pathfinder online tried to charge a subscription for alpha quality and collapsed.
Sure, you can go with the usual stuff like "this is the last chance for mmorpg's", "if you don't get on board for this all you get is garbage like WoW" and how this game looks great. I have seen enough to know that if something sounds too good to be true its worth checking for flaws and not ignore those flaws.
With all those things said, there are far worse things you could spend $100-$500 on so who am I to judge.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
Lol awesome another one of those pointless polls with biased options.
And some of the input here... 'If you do not want to support this game then you are selfish. There aren't any games out there I like so helping them will make things better for all of us'
I've seen that kind of mentality so often. The StarVault cultist used to say it a lot: "Either you support this game or you are labeled as a hater of the whole genre."
And then this Mike guy: 'They do not want to hand out their money for free. They do not follow us. That makes them sheep!'
And than these guys from mmorpg.com who buy every single WOW expansion and complain that mmorpg is dying . Every single day topics about mmorpg dying every single day tears of how bad last expansion was or how bad Garrisons where ... Every single days complains about how wow killed mmorpg and how WOW set the trend for WOW clones .....years and years same crap . Same Crap now people complain for class hall tears and moans because it's same as Garrison still most of you will buy it and complain ..... MMorpg.com became community of crybabies not gamers
And when some one with ambitious plans comes, he in bashed because he has unrealistic plans ..... time to realize the only reason mmorpg is in such ass is because gamers nowadays have low standards you complain yeah... but you still keep buying this trash and you love it ^^. As long as there is request for trash companies will sell trash simple....
I decided already I wont buy wow expansions anymore I will not waste money on trash ArchAge I posted it sucks long before release I was bashed and banned for my (Hot Head and blunt talk)....Same with Wild Star ....And I will not give my money for an another cheap ass Asian mmorpg BDO ..
Personally I am tired of these cheap worthless Hamster Wheel MMORPGs that you guys keep hyping over here which die in a few months....I will make this Leap of faith with CoE and hope they don't disappoint me. If they will I will just stop caring for mmo completely I already play them rarely for not spotting anything worth while ....
And when some one with ambitious plans comes, he in bashed because he has unrealistic plans ..... time to realize the only reason mmorpg is in such ass is because gamers nowadays have low standards you complain yeah... but you still keep buying this trash and you love it ^^. As long as there is request for trash companies will sell trash simple....
No one is trash talking the owner. You are exactly what I described up there. You do not like the games we have now and you want us to stop supporting those games to give our money to something you like instead.
We are not following you - you are calling us sheep. Go figure.
If you look at the scope for the game, the funds they are asking for and the expected time for delivery you understand that Q3 2017 release isn't realistic. At one point they will realize that the game simply isn't ready for a full release and their cash is running out and they will start chasing funds, $900k doesn't last long.
The repopulation ran two kickstarter campaigns and three campaigns on their website and a steam early access release to gather enough funds and even before their struggle with the game engine license they weren't remotely close to finishing the game. Shroud of the Avatar became more about selling buildings and towns than being about the game and its also out on steam early access. Pathfinder online tried to charge a subscription for alpha quality and collapsed.
Sure, you can go with the usual stuff like "this is the last chance for mmorpg's", "if you don't get on board for this all you get is garbage like WoW" and how this game looks great. I have seen enough to know that if something sounds too good to be true its worth checking for flaws and not ignore those flaws.
With all those things said, there are far worse things you could spend $100-$500 on so who am I to judge.
I was looking for their ask amount. Yeah, 900k is a red flag imo. For the feature list they're proposing I wouldn't put in a single red cent unless they were asking $3 million with a late 2018 / early-mid 2019 release date. I know they've done work ahead of the kickstarter, but they need to be more realistic on the business side. Marketing is expensive. Great 900k to develop a game is fine if you're purely using that money to just pay some programmers and nothing else. Once you expand that to a full on business and have overhead coming from every direction and you want to advertise your product, that money evaporates.
I think we've all seen it too many times now. Great ideas, passionate teams, zero business acumen. This isn't field of dreams. If you build it, they won't come. Banner ads on websites can have a huge range depending on the traffic and popularity of the site. Back when I was running a leather bag business, I had quotes from $500/mo to $5000/mo. Google ads can be up to $50 per click! (that's for the most popular of categories). Marketing is expensive, and that's just the cost to place the advertisements. You will also be paying at least one person to do your marketing, PR, community management, etc.
You may need legal counsel, you may need an accountant/financial consultant so that you don't have idle cash. It just snowballs.
So if you see a large project (like an MMO), ask yourself, is the amount they need realistic or are they asking that number because they're afraid they won't get funded with a higher ask?
Single player indie games are different beasts, because you just need to cover the cost to make and distribute it. Any money they make beyond that is either profit or getting reinvested into their next project. So they're set, they don't need to even advertise because they should theoretically be in the black just off the donations - if they priced them correctly.
MMOs are continuous projects that keep costing money to support, so they need players beyond those that donated via crowdfunding.
Always ask for more money and always ask for more time. It is always better to under-promise and over-deliver than vice versa.
If only there was some impartial objective scrutiny or insight offered by unbiased ICT or game industry professionals on all the innovation and ambitious going into unknown territory and how it will translate realistically into actual gameplay.
Firstly, many features sound awesome on paper but the reality of WASD keyboard +
mouse in X/Y axis restricted environment and other universal factors like that tend to greatly reduce divergence of actual gameplay experiences across games of similar genres. Is the total sum of innovative features enough to overcome the total sum of same core gameplay experience that people have already seen in countless games before? In 2016-2017 this issue may have even more relevance
than ever because VR technology is seriously knocking on the door.
Secondly, what are the technical limitations of Unreal Engine 4? In a recent video Chris Roberts said that they have seven dedicated engineers working on pushing the boundaries of CryEngine 3. Chris Roberts said that CryEngine 3 was originally designed for smaller scale multiplayer games like first-person shooters. This has presented a significant and expensive challenge during the development of Star Citizen. What's the verdict on Unreal Engine 4? As far as I know, UE4 is also primarily meant for smaller scale multiplayer games. Is there a chance that production will turn into an expensive and tricky uphill struggle to modify UE4 for ambitious innovative and persistently massively multiplayer concepts and features?
.... Is there a chance that production will turn into an expensive and tricky uphill struggle to modify UE4 for ambitious innovative and persistently massively multiplayer concepts and features?
Not a chance.
If some of the CoE features don't fit/work in UE4, then the CoE design will change to adapt to UE4.
They're most definitely not going to be changing the UE4 engine to adapt to CoE, lol
Im not a fan of permadeath but it bothers me more so with this game than other games. Their payment model is tied into your chars death/rebirth cycle. Am I the only one that is bothered by this??????????????
Im not a fan of permadeath but it bothers me more so with this game than other games. Their payment model is tied into your chars death/rebirth cycle. Am I the only one that is bothered by this??????????????
I am somewhat concerned about the "pay-to-grief" dimension of that concept. According to the main argument defending the concept, griefing pkillers will be stopped either by NPCs or other players and it will be costly to pkill and grief other people. The problem is that some people may be willing to spend a considerable amount of money on that activity and thus influencing the expenses of other players too. A griefing pkiller could go on a killing spree, wasting a lot of his/her real life money due to his/her own deaths, but also forcing other people to waste more money due to their deaths in the process.
The other concern is that some players become attached to one particular character and the loss of the character is a big deal for them. If the game fails to become exceptionally amazing to mitigate the negative feelings, permadeath has a potential of becoming a major stumbling block in the future. The negative impact and bad publicity can become compounded if permadeath hits a large portion of player population during the same time period. This can inadvertantly happen if first players arrive in a big wave within the first 1-2 months after game launch and then the majority of them start dying of old age during the same time period 10-12 months later.
Im not a fan of permadeath but it bothers me more so with this game than other games. Their payment model is tied into your chars death/rebirth cycle. Am I the only one that is bothered by this??????????????
I am somewhat concerned about the "pay-to-grief" dimension of that concept. According to the main argument defending the concept, griefing pkillers will be stopped either by NPCs or other players and it will be costly to pkill and grief other people. The problem is that some people may be willing to spend a considerable amount of money on that activity and thus influencing the expenses of other players too. A griefing pkiller could go on a killing spree, wasting a lot of his/her real life money due to his/her own deaths, but also forcing other people to waste more money due to their deaths in the process.
The other concern is that some players become attached to one particular character and the loss of the character is a big deal for them. If the game fails to become exceptionally amazing to mitigate the negative feelings, permadeath has a potential of becoming a major stumbling block in the future. The negative impact and bad publicity can become compounded if permadeath hits a large portion of player population during the same time period. This can inadvertantly happen if first players arrive in a big wave within the first 1-2 months after game launch and then the majority of them start dying of old age during the same time period 10-12 months later.
For me its also the timer, 10 month old chars just die. Im a casual gamer myself and I rotate between different MMOs. Coming back to a dead char I have gotten a few months of play time out of will just tick me off. While someone playing hardcore will get much more out of their game time and seems like a heavy hand to all casual gamers.
Nothing, wont be spending any money till its released and has reviews out. Besides we havent even really seen anything of what the game promises. Some assets and graphics showcases does not make a game.
Well I've skimmed through the comments and decided to sign up to mmorpg just so I can vote. I wasn't going to post but I feel I have to make one comment.
People are saying that a lot of kickstarter don't release what they promise. So I have to say, caspian has said on multiple occasions that coe is the type of game the devs have wanted to play themselves, therefore I can't imagine it changing alot from what has been announced
Well I've skimmed through the comments and decided to sign up to mmorpg just so I can vote. I wasn't going to post but I feel I have to make one comment.
People are saying that a lot of kickstarter don't release what they promise. So I have to say, caspian has said on multiple occasions that coe is the type of game the devs have wanted to play themselves, therefore I can't imagine it changing alot from what has been announced
So what?
If they run out of money and the game does not release, it makes no difference what game the devs "intended" to make.
Or if it takes 10 years to make and they give up.
Or if the office burns down or any of 1000 other reasons these KS projects crash.
Nothing matters if the game does not release (especially in a quality form).
And all too few KS MMOs have even launched, and practically none compared to the failures.
So why should people shovel free money at an unknown developer for a bunch of promises and a couple screenshots?
Well I've skimmed through the comments and decided to sign up to mmorpg just so I can vote. I wasn't going to post but I feel I have to make one comment.
People are saying that a lot of kickstarter don't release what they promise. So I have to say, caspian has said on multiple occasions that coe is the type of game the devs have wanted to play themselves, therefore I can't imagine it changing alot from what has been announced
So what?
If they run out of money and the game does not release, it makes no difference what game the devs "intended" to make.
Or if it takes 10 years to make and they give up.
Or if the office burns down or any of 1000 other reasons these KS projects crash.
Nothing matters if the game does not release (especially in a quality form).
And all too few KS MMOs have even launched, and practically none compared to the failures.
So why should people shovel free money at an unknown developer for a bunch of promises and a couple screenshots?
and two videos right and a promotional trailer? I mean I know it's not much but at least be honest with what's out there. There's an alpha video which shows walking around and swinging a sword (video) , a video about snow falling and accumulating on the ground (video). There's also a lore video (video) but it's hard to tell if that's just a video and not actual in-game footage or not.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
There's also a lore video (video) but it's hard to tell if that's just a video and not actual in-game footage or not.
From what I understand, you will see that in the game itself.
Visit the Chronicles of Elyria official site and the Official Wiki... an upcoming MMO from Soulbound Studios with real consequences to your actions. Finite Resources, WYSIWYG looting to player created and maintained maps and a deep modular crafting system. So much more that hasn't been said, ask questions! Post your thoughts! Spread the word of COE!
If you haven't yet, register with my referrer code on the official website: B0E240
Well I've skimmed through the comments and decided to sign up to mmorpg just so I can vote. I wasn't going to post but I feel I have to make one comment.
People are saying that a lot of kickstarter don't release what they promise. So I have to say, caspian has said on multiple occasions that coe is the type of game the devs have wanted to play themselves, therefore I can't imagine it changing alot from what has been announced
So what?
If they run out of money and the game does not release, it makes no difference what game the devs "intended" to make.
Or if it takes 10 years to make and they give up.
Or if the office burns down or any of 1000 other reasons these KS projects crash.
Nothing matters if the game does not release (especially in a quality form).
And all too few KS MMOs have even launched, and practically none compared to the failures.
So why should people shovel free money at an unknown developer for a bunch of promises and a couple screenshots?
You could say that about anything not just mmorpg's. The simple fact is if you are happy playing wow clones for the rest of your life then you carry on with the toxic approach to small developers starting up and asking the community to support an excellent idea.
It seems to me that people like yourself have nothing better to do than insult people trying to do something you yourself could never do.
People need to stop looking at it as an investment and look at it as a donation. A donation to help bring to life a game that many want to happen. I have no problem donating to something i believe in. This will only be the second game i donate to, in hopes to see a game released i can truly get immersed into.
I do believe as others that they will need more than the 900k they are hoping for, but also hope many like myself will donate what they can, and that they will surpass there goals and bring this game to fruition.
Good Luck to CoE, and hope they can do all that they want with the game!
People need to stop looking at it as an investment and look at it as a donation. A donation to help bring to life a game that many want to happen. I have no problem donating to something i believe in. This will only be the second game i donate to, in hopes to see a game released i can truly get immersed into.
I do believe as others that they will need more than the 900k they are hoping for, but also hope many like myself will donate what they can, and that they will surpass there goals and bring this game to fruition.
Good Luck to CoE, and hope they can do all that they want with the game!
You could say that about anything not just mmorpg's. The simple fact is if you are happy playing wow clones for the rest of your life then you carry on with the toxic approach to small developers starting up and asking the community to support an excellent idea.
It seems to me that people like yourself have nothing better to do than insult people trying to do something you yourself could never do.
And here it is again. No one is trash talking the guy who is trying to run this baby but no one is foolish enough to confuse the dreams of a developer with the harsh reality of what can be done and how much money it takes.
Yet you guys keep coming here twisting whatever we say.
We are reluctant to hand over our money for an unfinished game? - Clearly we are selfish and wow-clone lovers.
We criticize points you make? - Obviously we are a toxic community trying to roast a little indie dev.
My advice for you: Go try your luck on reddit where the majority of criticism is labeled as trolling. Echo chambers will probably work much better for you.
Well I've skimmed through the comments and decided to sign up to mmorpg just so I can vote. I wasn't going to post but I feel I have to make one comment.
People are saying that a lot of kickstarter don't release what they promise. So I have to say, caspian has said on multiple occasions that coe is the type of game the devs have wanted to play themselves, therefore I can't imagine it changing alot from what has been announced
Not to pile on, but that is what they all say though. I don't think I've seen a single kickstarter where the devs weren't passionate about what they were making and that it was something they've always wanted to play themselves.
I mean, if you can find a kickstarter where the creators say, "We don't really care about what we're making and we don't particularly like it, but we know you do so that's why we're making it." then we can explore the value of passionate developers, but so far, it's a worthless statement that literally every single team says.
While the game looks interesting I will never back any kickstarter. I have preordered games and will continue to do that but kickstarter games that actually do what they promise are very few and far between. Difference in preorder and kickstarter is if they fail to deliver I get my money back, plain and simple. If the game is worth making it shouldn't be hard to pitch to actual real investors instead of asking a player base to fund a game for you.
What I would like more is to have these Kickstarters done in phases maybe? Asking for at least $100 right off the bat is a bit much. Is it viable to ask for 20-30 so the devs can complete certain phases(have them show us that they completed it), then move on to the next and ask for more? Just wish there was a cheaper alternative. There are alot of Kickstarters out there and it's becoming more difficult to help some of these devs asking for that much money when they know that alot of players have invested in other games
Comments
The repopulation ran two kickstarter campaigns and three campaigns on their website and a steam early access release to gather enough funds and even before their struggle with the game engine license they weren't remotely close to finishing the game. Shroud of the Avatar became more about selling buildings and towns than being about the game and its also out on steam early access. Pathfinder online tried to charge a subscription for alpha quality and collapsed.
Sure, you can go with the usual stuff like "this is the last chance for mmorpg's", "if you don't get on board for this all you get is garbage like WoW" and how this game looks great. I have seen enough to know that if something sounds too good to be true its worth checking for flaws and not ignore those flaws.
With all those things said, there are far worse things you could spend $100-$500 on so who am I to judge.
And some of the input here... 'If you do not want to support this game then you are selfish. There aren't any games out there I like so helping them will make things better for all of us'
I've seen that kind of mentality so often. The StarVault cultist used to say it a lot:
"Either you support this game or you are labeled as a hater of the whole genre."
And then this Mike guy: 'They do not want to hand out their money for free. They do not follow us. That makes them sheep!'
The level of reality loss is priceless.
Every single day topics about mmorpg dying every single day tears of how bad last expansion was or how bad Garrisons where ...
Every single days complains about how wow killed mmorpg and how WOW set the trend for WOW clones .....years and years same crap .
Same Crap now people complain for class hall tears and moans because it's same as Garrison still most of you will buy it and complain .....
MMorpg.com became community of crybabies not gamers
And when some one with ambitious plans comes, he in bashed because he has unrealistic plans .....
time to realize the only reason mmorpg is in such ass is because gamers nowadays have low standards you complain yeah... but you still keep buying this trash and you love it ^^.
As long as there is request for trash companies will sell trash simple....
I decided already I wont buy wow expansions anymore I will not waste money on trash ArchAge I posted it sucks long before release I was bashed and banned for my (Hot Head and blunt talk)....Same with Wild Star ....And I will not give my money for an another cheap ass Asian mmorpg BDO ..
Personally I am tired of these cheap worthless Hamster Wheel MMORPGs that you guys keep hyping over here which die in a few months....I will make this Leap of faith with CoE and hope they don't disappoint me. If they will I will just stop caring for mmo completely I already play them rarely for not spotting anything worth while ....
You are exactly what I described up there. You do not like the games we have now and you want us to stop supporting those games to give our money to something you like instead.
We are not following you - you are calling us sheep.
Go figure.
I was looking for their ask amount. Yeah, 900k is a red flag imo. For the feature list they're proposing I wouldn't put in a single red cent unless they were asking $3 million with a late 2018 / early-mid 2019 release date. I know they've done work ahead of the kickstarter, but they need to be more realistic on the business side. Marketing is expensive. Great 900k to develop a game is fine if you're purely using that money to just pay some programmers and nothing else. Once you expand that to a full on business and have overhead coming from every direction and you want to advertise your product, that money evaporates.
I think we've all seen it too many times now. Great ideas, passionate teams, zero business acumen. This isn't field of dreams. If you build it, they won't come. Banner ads on websites can have a huge range depending on the traffic and popularity of the site. Back when I was running a leather bag business, I had quotes from $500/mo to $5000/mo. Google ads can be up to $50 per click! (that's for the most popular of categories). Marketing is expensive, and that's just the cost to place the advertisements. You will also be paying at least one person to do your marketing, PR, community management, etc.
You may need legal counsel, you may need an accountant/financial consultant so that you don't have idle cash. It just snowballs.
So if you see a large project (like an MMO), ask yourself, is the amount they need realistic or are they asking that number because they're afraid they won't get funded with a higher ask?
Single player indie games are different beasts, because you just need to cover the cost to make and distribute it. Any money they make beyond that is either profit or getting reinvested into their next project. So they're set, they don't need to even advertise because they should theoretically be in the black just off the donations - if they priced them correctly.
MMOs are continuous projects that keep costing money to support, so they need players beyond those that donated via crowdfunding.
Always ask for more money and always ask for more time. It is always better to under-promise and over-deliver than vice versa.
Firstly, many features sound awesome on paper but the reality of WASD keyboard + mouse in X/Y axis restricted environment and other universal factors like that tend to greatly reduce divergence of actual gameplay experiences across games of similar genres. Is the total sum of innovative features enough to overcome the total sum of same core gameplay experience that people have already seen in countless games before? In 2016-2017 this issue may have even more relevance than ever because VR technology is seriously knocking on the door.
Secondly, what are the technical limitations of Unreal Engine 4? In a recent video Chris Roberts said that they have seven dedicated engineers working on pushing the boundaries of CryEngine 3. Chris Roberts said that CryEngine 3 was originally designed for smaller scale multiplayer games like first-person shooters. This has presented a significant and expensive challenge during the development of Star Citizen. What's the verdict on Unreal Engine 4? As far as I know, UE4 is also primarily meant for smaller scale multiplayer games. Is there a chance that production will turn into an expensive and tricky uphill struggle to modify UE4 for ambitious innovative and persistently massively multiplayer concepts and features?
* more info, screenshots and videos here
If some of the CoE features don't fit/work in UE4, then the CoE design will change to adapt to UE4.
They're most definitely not going to be changing the UE4 engine to adapt to CoE, lol
I am somewhat concerned about the "pay-to-grief" dimension of that concept. According to the main argument defending the concept, griefing pkillers will be stopped either by NPCs or other players and it will be costly to pkill and grief other people. The problem is that some people may be willing to spend a considerable amount of money on that activity and thus influencing the expenses of other players too. A griefing pkiller could go on a killing spree, wasting a lot of his/her real life money due to his/her own deaths, but also forcing other people to waste more money due to their deaths in the process.
The other concern is that some players become attached to one particular character and the loss of the character is a big deal for them. If the game fails to become exceptionally amazing to mitigate the negative feelings, permadeath has a potential of becoming a major stumbling block in the future. The negative impact and bad publicity can become compounded if permadeath hits a large portion of player population during the same time period. This can inadvertantly happen if first players arrive in a big wave within the first 1-2 months after game launch and then the majority of them start dying of old age during the same time period 10-12 months later.
* more info, screenshots and videos here
I self identify as a monkey.
People are saying that a lot of kickstarter don't release what they promise. So I have to say, caspian has said on multiple occasions that coe is the type of game the devs have wanted to play themselves, therefore I can't imagine it changing alot from what has been announced
If they run out of money and the game does not release, it makes no difference what game the devs "intended" to make.
Or if it takes 10 years to make and they give up.
Or if the office burns down or any of 1000 other reasons these KS projects crash.
Nothing matters if the game does not release (especially in a quality form).
And all too few KS MMOs have even launched, and practically none compared to the failures.
So why should people shovel free money at an unknown developer for a bunch of promises and a couple screenshots?
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Finite Resources, WYSIWYG looting to player created and maintained maps and a deep modular crafting system. So much more that hasn't been said, ask questions! Post your thoughts! Spread the word of COE!
If you haven't yet, register with my referrer code on the official website: B0E240
It seems to me that people like yourself have nothing better to do than insult people trying to do something you yourself could never do.
I do believe as others that they will need more than the 900k they are hoping for, but also hope many like myself will donate what they can, and that they will surpass there goals and bring this game to fruition.
Good Luck to CoE, and hope they can do all that they want with the game!
No one is trash talking the guy who is trying to run this baby but no one is foolish enough to confuse the dreams of a developer with the harsh reality of what can be done and how much money it takes.
Yet you guys keep coming here twisting whatever we say.
We are reluctant to hand over our money for an unfinished game?
- Clearly we are selfish and wow-clone lovers.
We criticize points you make?
- Obviously we are a toxic community trying to roast a little indie dev.
My advice for you:
Go try your luck on reddit where the majority of criticism is labeled as trolling.
Echo chambers will probably work much better for you.
Not to pile on, but that is what they all say though. I don't think I've seen a single kickstarter where the devs weren't passionate about what they were making and that it was something they've always wanted to play themselves.
I mean, if you can find a kickstarter where the creators say, "We don't really care about what we're making and we don't particularly like it, but we know you do so that's why we're making it." then we can explore the value of passionate developers, but so far, it's a worthless statement that literally every single team says.