A New way to raise money? - $15 account dispute fee

mr1602

As a recent 'WTF is going on?' person, the more I look at Star Citizen, the more crazy it becomes.

There is now a $15 account dispute fee; 
Topic - https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/4eweoz/account_locked_indefinitely_need_help/
CIG staff confirming this is real - https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/4eweoz/account_locked_indefinitely_need_help/d240scn

Some of the things I've read indicates this is the Stripe's charge back fee.
Due to my job, I know banks won't let merchants pass on charges like this to their customers. And VISA/MC will certainly go 'WTF are you doing?' if they are informed. It just seems really short sighted that CIG would do this. I mean, is the amount of charge backs that high that CIG has to institute some type of 'fee' to try and stop it?

This whole thing makes no sense to me. Then again, I work at a bank so maybe 'i don't understand game development'?

GrumpyHobbit

I will give my opinion but only after you explain why I need 3 forms of Identification to put money INTO my bank account but only 2 to take money OUT....

Adjuvant1

Hmm, apparently this is a variable micropledge, depending on your previous amount of backing and your involvement in the grey market. They freeze your account and recommend to pay the suggested micropledge. This fee can be debated with customer service, in which case expect 60-90 days of your account being frozen.

So... CIG is cashing in on grey market transactions? What am I reading?

Deathenger

Ahh one more way to milk the fellow commando for more cash. LOL they just continue to entertain!

Kefo

Lol if this is true they will be shooting themselves in the foot. I mean I like to rag on SC but at least make it a challenge and don't just throw ammo at me

SmartySmart

Adjuvant1 said:

Hmm, apparently this is a variable micropledge, depending on your previous amount of backing and your involvement in the grey market. They freeze your account and recommend to pay the suggested micropledge. This fee can be debated with customer service, in which case expect 60-90 days of your account being frozen.

So... CIG is cashing in on grey market transactions? What am I reading?

No it is not CIG. It's Stripe.

https://stripe.com/docs/disputes/faq

"Stripe charges $15 per chargeback*(note: this fee is dependent upon the currency in which you receive funds - e.g., if you charge in USD and have those funds converted to GBP, EUR or CAD, the chargeback fee will be denominated in the converted currency), though this fee is refunded if the issuing bank decides in your favor."

mr1602

I'm just stunned that CIG (or any company) would try and pass on that charge back fee to someone else.
The person who did the charge back isn't paying for this since his / her account is now closed and they got their money back.
So CIG must be charging someone who bought a ship from the person who did the charge back.
This whole thing just looks FUBAR.

Sovrath

GrumpyHobbit said:

I will give my opinion but only after you explain why I need 3 forms of Identification to put money INTO my bank account but only 2 to take money OUT....

to combat money laundering.

SmartySmart

And here we go again... money laundering, FUBAR, etc. cc.



"A platitude is a trite, meaningless, or prosaic statement, generally directed at quelling social, emotional, or cognitive unease. Platitudes are geared towards presenting a shallow, unifying wisdom over a difficult topic. However, they are too overused and general to be anything more than undirected statements with ultimately little meaningful contribution towards a solution."

Adjuvant1

SmartySmart said:

Adjuvant1 said:

Hmm, apparently this is a variable micropledge, depending on your previous amount of backing and your involvement in the grey market. They freeze your account and recommend to pay the suggested micropledge. This fee can be debated with customer service, in which case expect 60-90 days of your account being frozen.

So... CIG is cashing in on grey market transactions? What am I reading?

No it is not CIG. It's Stripe.

https://stripe.com/docs/disputes/faq

"Stripe charges $15 per chargeback*(note: this fee is dependent upon the currency in which you receive funds - e.g., if you charge in USD and have those funds converted to GBP, EUR or CAD, the chargeback fee will be denominated in the converted currency), though this fee is refunded if the issuing bank decides in your favor."

It doesn't say "Stripe" in the email.
http://imgur.com/f2b5Rsr

The guy who vetted the email on twitter wasn't a Stripe employee and he didn't tell the reddit post op to contact Stripe customer service.

I understand the suspicion because Stripe charges $15 fees. I don't know if you're right or if this is something else.

mr1602

Here's a scenario

Person A sells Ship1 to Person B
Person B sell Ship1 to Person C
Person A does charge back
CIG charges Person C for the charge back cost.

If you know of another word to describe the above scenario other than FUBAR, by all means tell me.

And the 'money laundering' is not against CIG but towards the other guy who was asking why it took more IDs to put money into the bank. Putting money into a financial institution is actually a big risk for them as the institution at the time of deposit doesn't know if the money is 'clean' or not.

Erillion

mr1602 said:

Here's a scenario

Person A sells Ship1 to Person B
Person B sell Ship1 to Person C
Person A does charge back
CIG charges Person C for the charge back cost.

If you know of another word to describe the above scenario other than FUBAR, by all means tell me.

Except Ship 1 can only be "gifted" once to another account and is then "locked" to that account according to the SC Gifting FAQ.


Have fun

mr1602

Erillion said:

mr1602 said:

Here's a scenario

Person A sells Ship1 to Person B
Person B sell Ship1 to Person C
Person A does charge back
CIG charges Person C for the charge back cost.

If you know of another word to describe the above scenario other than FUBAR, by all means tell me.

Except Ship 1 can only be "gifted" once to another account and is then "locked" to that account according to the SC Gifting FAQ.


Have fun

Still FUBAR because someone did a charge back and you end up paying the 15 fee.

GrumpyHobbit

Sovrath said:

GrumpyHobbit said:

I will give my opinion but only after you explain why I need 3 forms of Identification to put money INTO my bank account but only 2 to take money OUT....

to combat money laundering.

If you need 3 for both I could understand that but the fact that someone, if they wanted to mess with my account, would find it easier to steal my money then to give me money...Don't care about the customer, gotta stop money laundering though!

rpmcmurphy

Ugh, this is awful, CIG billing seem to be acting very questionably as of late.

The CIG employee response in the reddit thread is ludicrous "I wont be posting any further details, however my confirmation was more a case of a notice not to encourage people to post these things publicly when it is in regards to an individuals account that isn't even the OP - therefore its confidential information to the originator."

Burntvet

There is no way such a thing would be legal in the US.

The "chargeback" occurs between the bank, and the vendor. The customer is not even part of the transaction, except to request it in the first place.

Under the UCC in the US, a 3rd party can not be charged a transaction fee, for a transaction they were not even part of.

This is BEGGING for a lawsuit.

I am wondering if the company deciding to do this even has a lawyer on staff or on retainer....

If not, they need to get one.

Turrican187

Burntvet said:

[...]
I am wondering if the company deciding to do this even has a lawyer on staff or on retainer....

If not, they need to get one.

Ortwin Sam Freyermuth is a lawyer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ortwin_Freyermuth

Kefo

Turrican187 said:

Burntvet said:

[...]
I am wondering if the company deciding to do this even has a lawyer on staff or on retainer....

If not, they need to get one.

Ortwin Sam Freyermuth is a lawyer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ortwin_Freyermuth

He's a "lawyer". You forgot to add the quotes in your reply

rpmcmurphy

Another interesting situation - https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/4ewiqj/cig_lawlessness_blocking_accounts_without/

Iselin

Kefo said:

Turrican187 said:

Burntvet said:

[...]
I am wondering if the company deciding to do this even has a lawyer on staff or on retainer....

If not, they need to get one.

Ortwin Sam Freyermuth is a lawyer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ortwin_Freyermuth

He's a "lawyer". You forgot to add the quotes in your reply

Better call Sam.

adamlotus75

CIG - making 'evil big publishers' look like charitable monks since 2013.

reeereee

GrumpyHobbit said:

Sovrath said:

GrumpyHobbit said:

I will give my opinion but only after you explain why I need 3 forms of Identification to put money INTO my bank account but only 2 to take money OUT....

to combat money laundering.

If you need 3 for both I could understand that but the fact that someone, if they wanted to mess with my account, would find it easier to steal my money then to give me money...Don't care about the customer, gotta stop money laundering though!

If it turns out you're money laundering: the bank loses money.  If it turns out someone was impersonating you to empty your bank account: you lose money.

Which do you think the bank cares more about?

Distopia

The email is rather vague I can't really discern what exactly it's saying other than you need to pay something. Is this a case of buying a second hand pledge (that was charged back) or what? Because if that is the case that wouldn't be much different than ZOS locking accounts purchased with questionable (G2A) keys, which no matter what, to get your account back you need to pay for a legit retail key.

rodarin

Whats getting lost in all this  is that if chargebacks and scams are so prevalent how much of that 110+ million is getting effected?

It also makes it obviously clear theyre SELLING ships and ships arent just a 'perk' for pledging. Theyre closing accounts as a punishment they even closed another account (the guy made new) that didnt have any grey market issues.

If they werent selling ships all they would do in chargeback situations is take all the ships and leave the account itself alone. But theye not doing that and they are also in effect banning an individual person not simply an account.

Desperate times at CiG I guess.

Erillion

rodarin said:

Desperate times at CiG I guess.

Meanwhile .... 112 M$   ;-)

Desperate times indeed .....


Have fun

Kyleran

GrumpyHobbit said:

Sovrath said:

GrumpyHobbit said:

I will give my opinion but only after you explain why I need 3 forms of Identification to put money INTO my bank account but only 2 to take money OUT....

to combat money laundering.

If you need 3 for both I could understand that but the fact that someone, if they wanted to mess with my account, would find it easier to steal my money then to give me money...Don't care about the customer, gotta stop money laundering though!

We could have quite a discussion on anti money laundering, Know Your Customer, and Sanctions screening as its been my job for the past 6 years, but this isn't the forum for it.

I will say laws around it are very stringent worldwide, and inconveniencing customers is of no concern nor are any rights to privacy.

I do think thus situation is part of the gray market charge back controversy and IMNHO only highlights the risks of such transactions.