I think the evolution or adaptation of the term MMO (I'd call it a corruption) to include certain kinds of games that don't really fit with the original definition is a telling factor.
Most of the people saying the genre is dying are die hards like me, we have a very strict definition of what an MMO is, and 70% of the current games claiming to be MMO's don't fit that definition, so in a way, our version of the genre is dying, even if the the wider, more accepted version seems quite healthy.
When you look at the remaining 30% that are "real" MMO's and find nothing innovative since WoW came out you can understand where the discontent is coming from. It's only in the last couple of years that MMO's have started to break with the WoW formula and try to something really different.
I agree with the OP. So many choices for MMORPGs out there. Most of the MMORPGs on the market atm have big enough players base for a player to do every content such as pvps and raids and whatnot. People QQ MMORPGs are dead, because they see or were playing back in the days when the amount of mmorpgs were countable on the fingers of one of your hands. Now that there's more MMORPGs than you have fingers on both of you hands the community is spread between them and it doesnt seem like MMORPGs are alive because they are not literally crowded, but infact they are living more than ever before.
Financially - the MMORPG market is growing, making more money than it ever has in the past. Number of Games - again, probably the largest number of games in the genre than at any point in its past Developers - Number of developers in the west is dropping, so not great for us Quality - very subjective Variety - again, subjective
So, on the surface, genre looks ok. However, being an art form designed for entertainment, subjectivity does matter because, ultimately, I couldn't care less whether other people are enjoying themselves or not, I only care that I can enjoy myself and that my enjoyment doesn't negatively impact anyone else.
So, subjectively, I feel the genre is in a slump. The lack of western developers / new western titles coming out is pitiful, so unless we have any big developers currently developing a game in secret, the next few years are looking bleak on the AAA front. Variety is the big problem. AAA devs for the last 5-10 years have mostly been chasing the themepark casual crowd, resulting in neglect for other market segments.
Where I do draw hope is from games like Destiny and The Division. Sure, they aren't MMOs, not even close and they aren't even games I would enjoy. However, they both show a willingness from large console developers to enter the purely-online realm as well as an appetite from the public to always be online. Bungie and Ubisoft now have that extra bit of experience with online tech, so its not a huge leap to think they could try entering the MMORPG genre properly.
Then you've got the indie scene. I imagine none of them will really take off big, but there is a small possibility they will, or at least shine a light on much neglected market segments. This may be enough to encourage larger AAA studios to start making other types of MMORPG apart from themeparks.
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So many MMOs are alive new and old and still people make topics the the genre is dead, I don't really get it. Sure there are crapload of em that are bad and some are really good, but the genre is by far more alive now then it were 5 years ago even 10 years ago, so I don't really get it where this doom and gloom comes from.
Your dream MMO haven't been made or you don't like what's out there doesn't mean the genre is dead.
I made a thread recently about how there is a decline of good titles that are populated that are the words i used. And thats simple reality. I wish it was different.
Also about 2-4 years ago mmorpg's were MUCH more active than it is now, many titles like Tera, Aion,SW:ToR, FW, Archeage were incredible, populated and blooming, now all of those unfortunatelly are pretty much dead, servers went from thousands of players to dozens, and those are the numbers.
There are simply more generic titles that spread mmorpg community even more thin, and as so many people tell me when i ask them, they are waiting for the next AAA good title in moba and single player games, at least big chunk of players from titles i was active in.
And now Titan is canceled for ,you guessed it, another moba, and its becoming a trend. I dont see any good mmorpg or mmo game at all comming remotely close to what we would call our next virtual home.
All i see are canceled hyped games, flops and half-finished disaster releases.
Prove me wrong but it seems devs are for some reason giving in to the greed or giving up entirely.
Well the idea of long time progression and long investments is imo far from dead.However the reason we DON'T see it is because developers are a dime a dozen now,seems everyone and their goldfish is a wannabe developer and the market is being spammed with crap because of it.
At one time we could name the devs on a couple hands,now there are thousands and 99% of those thousands all have incompetent budgets.So when a market is flooded with crap and you have millions of gamer's waiting to waste money,there is a VERY good chance the crap will keep selling.
There is simply not enough quality developers to bring us mmorpg's or good quality mmo's,we have to rely on quality single player games with about 30-60 hours of playtime,so not much value from our 60-90 dollar purchases.That si why i choose to just wait 6 months to a year and purchase single player games on sale,it is the only way i can justify buying these games. As for a QUALITY mmorpg,i'll just keep waiting,eventually 1 or 2 will pop out but i don't expect anymore than that.
Exactly.Though i dont know if budget was the problem, take Archeage for example, there it was incredible game ruined to the ground by publisher. And some other games simply got dated ,with no alternative for players to go to.
As mentioned, for western Devs, yes you might as well say it's dead. The only thing we are seeing now are eastern made mmo's and all those are pretty much the same thing with a different name on the wrapper. They were made for a different gaming culture and no matter how much you try to westernize a game, in the end it's still an eastern made grinder.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
The genre is dying for the low attention span mmo players who only play an title for a few months before bailing for the next one.
I'm glad to be losing those people.
I think i understand what you think, but You couldnt be more wrong.
Its a trend now to call them "Jumpers"and most of them simply move on becouse they burned out by going through entire content over and over again, and lack of updates forced them to become trapped in a closed loop.
Rare are the online games which recieve updates every 3-5 months.And you would expect updates at least that often.
Great news actually, means once SC crashes and burns there won't be any serious competitors to EVE and it's success is pretty much assured for another 10 years.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Great news actually, means once SC crashes and burns there won't be any serious competitors to EVE and it's success is pretty much assured for another 10 years.
and i thought people want new games and innovation as opposed to old, meh games that rely on little competition to survive.
Isn't competition GOOD for the consumer?
(though i do believe that SC is going to crash & burn. THAT train-wreck will be fun to watch.)
Great news actually, means once SC crashes and burns there won't be any serious competitors to EVE and it's success is pretty much assured for another 10 years.
Well, EVE is losing players even without any direct competitors for years already.
Great news actually, means once SC crashes and burns there won't be any serious competitors to EVE and it's success is pretty much assured for another 10 years.
Well, EVE is losing players even without any direct competitors for years already.
The greatest enemy of EVE is CCP...
It was bound to happen. It is a really old game. You didn't expect it to run forever did you?
You'd think they'd be working on Eve 2.0; correcting mistakes, ditching all the arcaic mechanics and legacy bullshit, but alas no...
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Quirhid said:
It was bound to happen. It is a really old game. You didn't expect it to run forever did you?
You'd think they'd be working on Eve 2.0; correcting mistakes, ditching all the arcaic mechanics and legacy bullshit, but alas no...
That is what they are doing with EVE for the past 5 years...just reworking the game, again and again.
Yes, nothing last forver but that is not the case that is happening with EVE. EVE isn't losing players because it is old, in fact it is probably the only game on the market that went under complete facelift.
As mentioned, for western Devs, yes you might as well say it's dead.
what? Isn't The Division was just released to great commercial success?
I think we differ on what an MMORPG is if you think the Division is classified as one. It's a good FPS, but that is as far as I take it. Even that game is having a hard time keeping players vested in it. Everyone I know that played it has quit for various reasons.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
They're not dead, they're just extremely derivative and dull.
Aye, thats what happens when devs try to please the widest audience possible and their mother simplifying it to the ground.
There are many tastes when it comes to mmo games and you cant generalise it all to one game, to be original and have sheer quality, tons of content, and feedback on your title is how kings are born.
There's alive and there's living, two vastly different propositions.
I think your definition of "living" is what answers this question (to your own satisfaction), along with your native optimism/cynicism balance.
I do think that "AAA" is killing an awful lot of fresh ideas, and is responsible for producing so much formula same-same. The investment is far too high, and the chance of a winner is much too low, making MMORPG an overall poor investment.
Comments
Most of the people saying the genre is dying are die hards like me, we have a very strict definition of what an MMO is, and 70% of the current games claiming to be MMO's don't fit that definition, so in a way, our version of the genre is dying, even if the the wider, more accepted version seems quite healthy.
When you look at the remaining 30% that are "real" MMO's and find nothing innovative since WoW came out you can understand where the discontent is coming from. It's only in the last couple of years that MMO's have started to break with the WoW formula and try to something really different.
A PvE sandbox/sandpark, with OPTIONAL PvP. Like SWG and Ryzom...and the very old MMO called Asheron's Call
Every sandpark/sandbox game coming out, and recently out (BDO) is forced pvp deathmatch
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
FTFY.
Financially - the MMORPG market is growing, making more money than it ever has in the past.
Number of Games - again, probably the largest number of games in the genre than at any point in its past
Developers - Number of developers in the west is dropping, so not great for us
Quality - very subjective
Variety - again, subjective
So, on the surface, genre looks ok. However, being an art form designed for entertainment, subjectivity does matter because, ultimately, I couldn't care less whether other people are enjoying themselves or not, I only care that I can enjoy myself and that my enjoyment doesn't negatively impact anyone else.
So, subjectively, I feel the genre is in a slump. The lack of western developers / new western titles coming out is pitiful, so unless we have any big developers currently developing a game in secret, the next few years are looking bleak on the AAA front. Variety is the big problem. AAA devs for the last 5-10 years have mostly been chasing the themepark casual crowd, resulting in neglect for other market segments.
Where I do draw hope is from games like Destiny and The Division. Sure, they aren't MMOs, not even close and they aren't even games I would enjoy. However, they both show a willingness from large console developers to enter the purely-online realm as well as an appetite from the public to always be online. Bungie and Ubisoft now have that extra bit of experience with online tech, so its not a huge leap to think they could try entering the MMORPG genre properly.
Then you've got the indie scene. I imagine none of them will really take off big, but there is a small possibility they will, or at least shine a light on much neglected market segments. This may be enough to encourage larger AAA studios to start making other types of MMORPG apart from themeparks.
Also about 2-4 years ago mmorpg's were MUCH more active than it is now, many titles like Tera, Aion,SW:ToR, FW, Archeage were incredible, populated and blooming, now all of those unfortunatelly are pretty much dead, servers went from thousands of players to dozens, and those are the numbers.
There are simply more generic titles that spread mmorpg community even more thin, and as so many people tell me when i ask them, they are waiting for the next AAA good title in moba and single player games, at least big chunk of players from titles i was active in.
And now Titan is canceled for ,you guessed it, another moba, and its becoming a trend.
I dont see any good mmorpg or mmo game at all comming remotely close to what we would call our next virtual home.
All i see are canceled hyped games, flops and half-finished disaster releases.
Prove me wrong but it seems devs are for some reason giving in to the greed or giving up entirely.
I have a very hard time spotting such MMOs, that's for sure.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
I'm glad to be losing those people.
You couldnt be more wrong.
Its a trend now to call them "Jumpers"and most of them simply move on becouse they burned out by going through entire content over and over again, and lack of updates forced them to become trapped in a closed loop.
Rare are the online games which recieve updates every 3-5 months.And you would expect updates at least that often.
wait .. why is that a bad thing? If mmo players want to hop to new games all the time, then there is the demand for new games.
Plus, aren't whales funding all the new games. May be you don't like them ... but that is hardly bad for the "genre".
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Isn't competition GOOD for the consumer?
(though i do believe that SC is going to crash & burn. THAT train-wreck will be fun to watch.)
Are they AAA titles? Are they populated at all?
Hm.Its not by all means hate on the genre its anger that so many devs are giving in to moba hype and neglecting mmorpg genre.
Now you tell me "Well ,you have moba, there you have it, and your angry about something."
And than i tell you:
THIS IS SPARTA
sorry wrong movie
THIS IS MMORPG.COM
The greatest enemy of EVE is CCP...
You'd think they'd be working on Eve 2.0; correcting mistakes, ditching all the arcaic mechanics and legacy bullshit, but alas no...
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Yes, nothing last forver but that is not the case that is happening with EVE. EVE isn't losing players because it is old, in fact it is probably the only game on the market that went under complete facelift.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
There are many tastes when it comes to mmo games and you cant generalise it all to one game, to be original and have sheer quality, tons of content, and feedback on your title is how kings are born.
I think your definition of "living" is what answers this question (to your own satisfaction), along with your native optimism/cynicism balance.
I do think that "AAA" is killing an awful lot of fresh ideas, and is responsible for producing so much formula same-same. The investment is far too high, and the chance of a winner is much too low, making MMORPG an overall poor investment.