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Blizzard Responds to the Legacy Server Issue

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  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,012
    chilliz said:
    I played wow from release in the EU all the way upto WOD. I played Vanilla for 2 years . It was the first MMO online game I had ever played that I got a sense of awe from. I had played DAOC before Vanilla wow got released, but never ever did I get the sense of amazement and wonder like I got from Warcraft when it released.

    The sense of everything feeling absolutely massive and people that didn't know wtf they were doing back then was amazing. There was this sense of discovery and amazement that i dont think could ever be replicated in any mmo ever again its as simple as that. The gaming landscape has moved on, information to game related news has become more widespread, guilds and people are more robust and organised in how they do things whether it be power grinding or raiding etc.

    I absolutely loved vanilla wow for the time that was back then, and I wouldn't trade those memories for anything because they were some of the best gaming memories I had, but would I want to play vanilla wow back then??, absolutely not.

    In saying all this here are a few things that was in no way great about vanilla at all:

    1) It is 12 years since wows release, those days of amazement and discovery are well and trully over, for all games not just wow. No matter how much you try to capture vanillas wows experience. It was for that time, it was for you and only you, and that time. Sorry but Vanilla wow can never be recreated. Yes you can try to creates these so called Vanilla servers, but it was never about the server or the rule set or expansions, it was about that time, and that time of gaming, when Blizzard unleashed the world to Warcraft, nothing was ever seen like it, and nothing will ever compare to it again, matter what Vanilla server is released or the name you call it.

    2) Vanilla was a pure grind its as simple as that. To play the game and really do anything in the game, you had to play it as a job, whether it be questing, raiding, crafting etc etc. The grind in those days were ridiculous and dont know if I ever want that grind back, know matter how much I loved vanilla wow.

    3) Spending hours in trade chat looking for groups really was one of the worst experiences ever, you could have a group of 3-people and not find the class you wanted or the correct geared people for hours and hours, and you would just end up wasting hours sitting in IF Looking for a group, sorry it was not fun.

    4) The 40 man raiding was utter shit ,know matter how anyone tryes to twist it. Getting 40 people to raid was a chore intself, but to then go into a raid and have 10-120 people just put themselves on /folllow and afk was the reality of 40 man raiding, in MC and BWL and even to an extent aq40 b4 bosses. NOBODY AND I MEAN NOBODY wants to sit though waves and waves of mindbogglingly, boring trash ever again. know wounder half the raid used to be afk.

    5) Playing the game and raiding and spending months and months waiting for an item to drop for your class was not fun at all. I still remember the first time the T2 helm dropped for my mage in Onxyias lair after 6 months. I was really happy, but just thought why the fuuck did I spend 6 months trying to get this helm. I no way as hell would I want to spend months if not years trying to get a piece of loot ever again.

    6) The 1 spec for all classes is utter shite, now once you now have experienced the dual talent system. The talent trees were utter shite. Sorry but the cookie cutter builds were just stand, every tom dick and harry the same build, or someone might have used 1 point to get 0.5% extra crit, was utter shite.

    In saying all this Vanilla wow is and probably will remain the best gaming times I ever had, from questing, exploration, pvp, raiding etc etc. But that dosnt mean i cannot be objective about it, and see there were major major flaws to the game, and really wouldn't want to game like that 12 years on from the initial wow release.

    Maybe its because I am older now that I think this way or something, but for me dont try to recapture something that was in essence lightning in a bottle , a once in a life time expeirence and try to recreate it. It wont have the same charm, magic or feel about it. Vanilla wow, TBC and even Wotlk were for their time and thats the way they should remain.
    Alls I see is you crying here.  Basically WOW Was not made for you so you think it is all bad.  I never had issues with finding groups or people to play with expect for at 2AM ET when everyone was in bed.  Yet I didnt bitch at times thats all I could play.  No the game was designed for an MMORPG player not a Wannbe MMORPG gamer.  I played the first 4 years casually and I got to do a lot and I only played 10 to 20 hours a week.  I just was smart enough to organize shit ahead of time not log on and expect something handed to me.  

    Dont like it dont play it.
  • Talon_DeathravenTalon_Deathraven Member UncommonPosts: 46
    1- You like WoW you play vanilla or not vanilla .
    2- You don't like WoW you not play vanilla or not vanilla.

    Yep is that easy!
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    1- You like WoW you play vanilla or not vanilla .
    2- You don't like WoW you not play vanilla or not vanilla.

    Yep is that easy!
    I get the feeling I wouldn't be able to buy soup from you.
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
    edited April 2016
    danwest58 said:

    Dont like it dont play it.
    Many could say the same about live version over vanilla -- don't like it, don't play it. The natural extension of that sentiment is not to open vanilla servers or in any way allow so-called private servers. The natural extension to "don't like it, don't play it", which is in this case the fact that the live game is WoW, is to move on.  ;)

    There have been a number of games that changed from what they originally began as that I've simply stopped playing. I remember the days gone by but don't rail for it to be returned to its former self. Time and games move on and so do I.


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • baphametbaphamet Member RarePosts: 3,311
    edited April 2016

    Gdemami said:


    deniter said:

    So anyone who doesn't buy brand new Fiat Panda but takes a second hand '74 Ferrari instead is stealing money from Fiat?

    They are two different products, one that is no longer in sale and that has no substitute.



    That is the thing, they are not 2 different products - one is the copy(stolen) of the other.


    It is a piracy like any other - lost profits.



    sorry but no, one is not a copy of the other, they are two completely different gaming experiences. they are the same in name only.

    there is a reason why vanilla private servers are so popular and not just copies of the live version. people are not playing these games to rip off blizz, they are doing it because they want to play the game they once loved and blizz refuses to offer the service.

    knowing that, i fail to see how that is stealing so much money from blizz when i would argue the vast majority of the wow vanilla players don't want to play the current live version of wow and damn sure are not going to pay a sub to blizz to play there now.

  • Morbid_AngelMorbid_Angel Member UncommonPosts: 6
    edited April 2016
    People don't want to play on Nortalrius because they want to play WoW for free. They want to play because they want the feeling they had back in the days.
    I played a short while there because I wanted the to get my Dungeon set,
    Because I want to upgrade it to tier 0.5,
    because I want to be epic because I have an epic weapon,
    because ilvl didn't matter then,
    because I don't want to laughed at when I still have a blue item when I am starting to raid,
    because AV isn't just getting to the boss first,
    because it is awesome to summon the elemental in AV,
    because I want to get inspected because I have an epic shield,
    because my shaman was feared by everyone (rip the massive NERFS),
    because I want to get mad because i got a random epic drop,
    because I need to save for my mount because 740g was a LOT and I MEAN A LOT.
    That is why I want to play vanilla.

    And by hiring the Nostalrius people they make a great step into recreating vanilla WoW. And why not hiring them? Sony hired the person who hacked the PS3.

    And I am not angry at Blizz bacause they shut down Nostalrius. It is their right to do this. It is their product. They have avery right to shut it down.

    Blizzard would get a lot more subscribers when they open a Legacy server. But when everyone has done AQ 40. What then? Then they will demand a TBC Server. And when the black Temple is on farm status by everyone? When should they stop?

    Blizzard said in the past that they dont have the server software anymore to bring back a legacy server. If that is true I don't know. I find it hard to believe.
  • Kayo83Kayo83 Member UncommonPosts: 399
    edited April 2016
    Nanfoodle said:
    Lets put it in real terms Blizzard is seeing this. Make a server where no one buys expansions or items from the cash shop. No thanks!
    This. Exactly this. If this wasnt a factor then they wouldnt only be considering modified live servers instead.

    I love how people keep thinking its because classic servers are too much work like a "pristine" servers are any easier. A classic server is by comparison, MUCH easier and it'd likely be profitable at least for a while. Then again, so would a lemonade stand outside of their headquarters. Doesnt mean theyll bother investing in it. Blizzard is a big boy now, they want more than sub money. If they cant capitalize off the cash shop and/or all the other synergistic crap theyve added over the years, theyre not interested. And Im willing to bet my account (assuming I can recover it) that these "pristine realms" will be special premium realms (more expensive) to make up for that. IF they ever do them.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    baphamet said:
    sorry but no, one is not a copy of the other, they are two completely different gaming experiences. they are the same in name only.
    Oh, so the art and code used in pirate servers is just a "coincidence", right..?
  • JGrendahlJGrendahl Member UncommonPosts: 2
    edited April 2016

    Kano,


    The Nost team didnt make a profit off of their server so how did it rob Blizzard?  Does Blizzard offer the version of WOW that Nost was running?  Nope.  So how are they robbing blizzard?  

    Why would you hire the Nost Team?  Because it will bring WOW players back.  There is a large following that want the classic version and Blizzard will make a profit off it.  Just talk to Mark Kern who knows what the hell he is talking about.  


    I don't understand this line of thinking at all.

    If someone comes into your house, and takes something from it without your permission, they've robbed you. It doesn't matter if they've sold it to make a profit or not, they've still taken something from you that doesn't belong to them.

    I played vanilla WoW. I loved it. It was my first MMO, and the nostalgia is very strong within me. I wouldn't mind seeing the old servers back, just to play around once in a while. But that's the thing. Once in a while. There have been too many QoL changes to WoW that I wouldn't want to live without.

    But that's me personally, and I understand that other people want the option to play as it was. I want them to have that option, but not at the expense of the current game. If they can find a way to do it, and not have the WoW as it is now suffer, fantastic!

    I don't agree with hiring the Nostalrius team to make that happen. Not only have they taken something from WoW, but it feels like they are exacerbating the problem. Right now there are posts everywhere with people threatening and blustering and it's really an unbecoming look for people who are supposed to be a community.

    The whole thing just leaves a really bad taste in my mouth, and I hope there is some resolution soon, one way or another.
  • JermzyJermzy Member UncommonPosts: 211
    Yet another example of folks that do not read or ignore the ToS and EULA's.  Just scroll to the bottom and click "yes".  10 years later, demand it for free.  FFS.
    Haroo!
  • MaquiameMaquiame Member UncommonPosts: 1,073
    edited April 2016
    SBFord said:
    danwest58 said:

    Kano,

    I am a Sr. Systems Engineer. From an Operational standpoint its not hard to build and maintain these servers, the Operational problem comes from building the team. They would need someone like Mark Kern who has experience and can come in from the outside to manage these servers. To pull resources from another team is the problem. You really need to build another team to manage these servers.
    What I fail to understand is why so many refuse to take the word of the people inside the company at face value. For Pete's sake. Sometimes things are exactly what they are said to be rather than the grand conspiracy theory that some want the world to believe.

    As for hiring the Nost team, why on earth would they? It's like rewarding the guy who robbed you with a job at your Fortune 500 company.
    You mean like the early days of mod builders/Counterstrike/Dota? Many of those guys DID get hired into companies. Thank god Valve didn't see it your way.

    Lets not act like this has never happened before. The only issue was that the actual project wasn't a new one. Besides Blizzard can do what Blizzard wants they set the rules.

    image

    Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!

  • baphametbaphamet Member RarePosts: 3,311

    SBFord said:


    toolak said:



    Here we go again Suzie defending her cash cow. Blizzard hasn't put out a decent expac since WOTLK and even it's value is debatable. But it's not that fact that burns me. It's the fact that blizzard thinks I'm too stupid to build a character out of skill trees and too uncoordinated to be able to have more than 5 special attacks per temp. They distilled what was one of the best mmos in the world down to the lowest common denominator. A perfect example is my wife. She has got to be the WORST player I've ever seen. No idea about rotation, can hardly control her toon much less her pet at the same time. Yes a typical huntard. Yet she is dripping with top level epics due to wheelchair and safety harness that blizzard provides you. You can literally get to 100 and be full top level epiced in a matter of days now.


    My 'cash cow'  -- haha tell that to my bank account :dizzy:

    Your  opinions are, of course, your own. 4-5 million others disagree. I think it's fantastic that your wife is enjoying her time in the live version and so should you. People like different things in this world. For now, your hope of a vanilla server is still alive but probably not going to happen soon. In the meantime, I hope you kindly encourage your wife to learn different tactics and the ins / outs of her chosen class.

    Funny as it is, the staff here was dinged for not being passionate about games but when passion for one shows, it gets dinged again. Oh the irony. :D



    how about the millions that have left since WOTLK? i guess those millions disagree with you and blizz? i understand the legal aspect of this, calling it piracy and all that.

    but this isn't the same as ripping off a movie from pirates bay that you could just go to the store and buy on blue ray. this is a service that you cannot get and blizzard refuses to offer it.

    it doesn't make it any less illegal but pretending like these people just want to rip off blizz isn't really fair, nor is it accurate.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    baphamet said:
     they are doing it because they want to play the game they once loved and blizz refuses to offer the service.

    And it is 100% their right to refuse. I don't have to share or give away anything I own. Why should they?

    Some of you guys have a warped sense of ownership when it comes to games. "We want it so you must give it to us."



    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405
    I'm amused by their stance: Play on Modern Servers or GTFO. Would be nice if for once the company just swallowed their pride and offered classic server. You would think that the retained revenue and goodwill would be enough of an incentive but no. I imagine there is some slippery slope fear that crawls up their spine, "if we bend on this."
    MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
  • toolaktoolak Member UncommonPosts: 154



    toolak said:



    SBFord said:


    Jakobmiller said:



    Gdemami said:

    UnleadedRev said:



    Freaking buy Nostalgia or pay them or whatever since they obviously can do very easily what Blizzard cannot!
    Erm, so Blizzard should pay for code that was stolen from them and even pay the thieves themselves...?


     Obviously...



    Recruit them since obviously Blizzard lacks talent these days ;)






    That's unfair and petty.

    They have the talent but not the inclination to do it. As the letter clearly states, they are speaking with these people and perhaps something will come of it -- maybe licensed servers and whatnot. The talent and current employees of Blizzard are working on Legion and other live version issues.

    If you don't like the game, fine, but be respectful of the work and the workers.





     A perfect example is my wife. She has got to be the WORST player I've ever seen. No idea about rotation, can hardly control her toon much less her pet at the same time. Yes a typical huntard. Yet she is dripping with top level epics due to wheelchair and safety harness that blizzard provides you. You can literally get to 100 and be full top level epiced in a matter of days now.


    I don't want to sound like "that guy" but you are perfect example of an asshole spouse. You should be happy your wife is enjoying so much playing a game but no, you are insulting the people who are providing her the enjoyment. You are an asshole.



    Lol some ppl. I do support my wife. I'm just saying she is a bad bad player. And even she is getting frustrated with how dumbed down the game is getting and the way they hand you everything for nothing. I doubt that she will buy the new expac, not because of me or the money, but because she doesn't enjoy the game atm and she doesn't like what she sees in the new expac articles.

    To me you are being "that guy". You have no idea how things are in my and my wife's relationship and you just throw your own context into everything. Another special little snowflake who probably thinks you deserve everything. There, I can throw around context as well as anyone. Go eat some kale and granola and stfu.
  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
    edited April 2016
    baphamet said:

    how about the millions that have left since WOTLK? i guess those millions disagree with you and blizz? i understand the legal aspect of this, calling it piracy and all that.
    Millions have left for any one of a thousand other reasons as I'm sure you can imagine. The game is nearly twelve years old and there is a lot more competition out there that coincidentally began about the time of WotLK. Your assumption that those "millions" would come back simply for the joy of playing on vanilla servers is doubtless not represented by the research that Blizzard has already (as stated in the letter) conducted. Would there be a bump in subs for a time? Perhaps, but I'd imagine significantly less than you imagine.


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • NodboNNodboN Member UncommonPosts: 50

    SBFord said:


    Gdemami said:






    That is the thing, they are not 2 different products - one is the copy(stolen) of the other.


    It is a piracy like any other - lost profits.


    It is interesting to note that Brack, on behalf of Blizzard, calls servers like Nostalrius 'pirate', not 'private'. That's a pretty significant choice of words.

    And while we’ve looked into the
    possibility – there is not a clear legal path to protect Blizzard’s IP
    and grant an operating license to a pirate server.




    That is an interesting choice of words... pirate... privateer maybe? secretly supported private servers? I think this is just a yearly house cleaning for legal purposes, kill one project and if someone try's to make a legal argument about there being other server's, then Blizz can say they took legal action this year on a private server, setting precedent as such. But i give them credit for not being total pricks, secretly they do allow some servers to operate on a certain level, it was just Nos made the best target/example this time. Of course this is all conjecture on my part, but it makes sense and fits well in my head.

    The Nos team can just make another server under another name, people who play on private severs are fully prepared to lose everything and start over, might as well have full-loot-perma-death wow servers. People do love their toon's, as much as they did on legal wow, they are sad to lose them and a little bitter but its just a given when you play on a private pirate server.
  • mrtoxifymrtoxify Member UncommonPosts: 6
    This won't happen plan and simple cause blizz doesn't want to invest money without a guaranteed profit.
  • JeroKaneJeroKane Member EpicPosts: 7,098

    SBFord said:

    Jakobmiller said:


    Gdemami said:

    UnleadedRev said:


    Freaking buy Nostalgia or pay them or whatever since they obviously can do very easily what Blizzard cannot!
    Erm, so Blizzard should pay for code that was stolen from them and even pay the thieves themselves...?

     Obviously...


    Recruit them since obviously Blizzard lacks talent these days ;)




    That's unfair and petty.

    They have the talent but not the inclination to do it. As the letter clearly states, they are speaking with these people and perhaps something will come of it -- maybe licensed servers and whatnot. The talent and current employees of Blizzard are working on Legion and other live version issues.

    If you don't like the game, fine, but be respectful of the work and the workers.



    Agree.

    Blizzard can just hire these guys and then they can re-release Nostalrius servers on "legal" hardware under Blizzard's banner and Battle.net account system.

    Many People have suggested this. These guys pretty much have done all the hard work already to run Classic servers.

    Would be an obvious thing to do for Blizzard and cheapest. Win-Win really.
  • ArskaaaArskaaa Member RarePosts: 1,265
    edited April 2016
    i support "pristine" if its only vanilla WoW and a lot slower exp gain. hit to 60 lvl should take 6 month least. old AV need be too, and world pvp is only way get best pvp gear (honor gear in BGs). no flying.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    edited April 2016
    baphamet said:
    but this isn't the same as ripping off a movie from pirates bay that you could just go to the store and buy on blue ray. this is a service that you cannot get and blizzard refuses to offer it.
    With the same logic, do you mind if just anyone break into your house and take anything that is "no longer available"?

    Your argument is irrelevant since Blizzard is still the owner of the IP, regardless whether some form of it is available or not.


  • knightauditknightaudit Member UncommonPosts: 389
    In essence that would turn off all leveling acceleration including character transfers, heirloom gear, character boosts, Recruit-A-Friend bonuses, WoW Token, and access to cross realm zones, as well as group finder.

    Reading this .. Now I am not sure about others but I see a few things here that I think are problems with the game. Vanilla WOW never had any of this. So it goes without saying that making a legacy server would not include any of this.
    Access to cross realm zones came from an issues with very low or dead servers. Close those and transfer people out .. make that server the legacy, not like they would need a new server, just re purpose.
    But then that is just me ... and my simple thoughts to a complex problem.
  • PottedPlant22PottedPlant22 Member RarePosts: 800
    This is really encouraging. Gotta give one to Blizzard. Much better response from them than I thought would come from all of this.
  • DalanonDalanon Member UncommonPosts: 126

    Will it be difficult for Blizzard to start a legacy server program?  Yes.  People love nostalgia, but as fun as nostalgia can be, it's not always as fun as you remember.  Think of a movie you saw as a kid and go back and watch it 20 years later when newer movies are better written, better acted, with better special effects, and you realize you wanted about 2 hours of nostalgia, and now you're bored with it.  I'm not saying that's what would happen for everyone trying out a vanilla wow again, but I think the majority of people would end up real happy at first, and then going back to playing a more modern game with better systems.  That creates Blizzards first problem.  It's true I think a lot of people would like to "try" a vanilla wow server again, maybe millions, so they won't need "a" server to start that program, they will need many servers.  So they go to all that work to set all that up, and a week later when the majority of people go back to playing a modern game?  Well that's a lot of work and money just to give people a blast from the past and then to keep maybe 5% of those people playing occasionally on an old version of the game and probably less than 1% playing on it full time.

    The next issue is will people pay for it.  For that 1% the answer is a definite yes.  But don't pretend like nobodys playing on the private server because it was free.  People like free, but free, especially when it wasn't theirs to give, is stealing.  Go to best buy and tell them that free games are what everyone's doing right now so you want a game off the rack for free because that's how games are supposed to be.  See what kind of response you get.  Just because it's a digital copy and not a physical one, doesn't make it any more legal to pirate.  The same goes for movies, tv, books, or any other idea based product that doesn't have to have a physical copy to be used.  Even if you're using your already bought copy of WoW to emulate all of this on a private server, you still agreed to Blizzards service to be able to play it.  So at that point it's more like stealing cable tv or something, but either way you slice it, you are ripping off a company that invested millions of dollars into making a product. 

    I would rather see Blizzard focus on making current wow a little more like the older versions.  It does need some more challenge added to it.  I understand Blizzard tries to keep things very easy to get into so they can try to pull in new customers, but at this point, I think that there won't be a lot more new customers, and they need to focus on keeping the older, more experienced customers happy.  With that being said, when it comes to things like no group finder, no map, auctioning in chat...those can all be done in current wow.  It's up to the players if they want to use the tools wow gives them.  If you really want a server where most people try to play it old school, get in the Blizzard forums, start a campaign to draw like minded players to a particular server, and maybe you will have the community you want.  People want a sense of community...well the tools are all there.  If you want to play with a bunch of people that don't use flying mounts, don't use group finder, and don't play past the content introduced in vanilla wow, then just pick a server and start some guilds with those values.  I totally understand some of the physical changes from cataclysm would be there, but that shouldn't matter that much if you're real concern is community and not if your favorite kill 10x quest has been moved or replaced.  

    I think it would be a nice gesture if Blizzard maybe started a new server that doesn't have any changes from their others, but would maybe just be labeled as a "vanilla roleplay" server so that people know they should be expected to communicated a lot of things, rather than just hitting a button to join a group or to sell things.  I even know a good name...

    Not all who wander are lost...

  • Kayo83Kayo83 Member UncommonPosts: 399
    Gdemami said:
    baphamet said:
    but this isn't the same as ripping off a movie from pirates bay that you could just go to the store and buy on blue ray. this is a service that you cannot get and blizzard refuses to offer it.
    With the same logic, do you mind if just anyone break into your house and take anything that is "no longer available"?

    Your argument is irrelevant since Blizzard is still the owner of the IP, regardless whether some form of it is available or not.
    Actually, if someone came up to me with one of those Star Trek replicators that can make an exact copy of one of my old back up cell phones I wouldnt mind at all, lol. No negative impact on me what so ever, I got my moneys worth a long time ago, and I probably wont even use it ever again.

    No one is questioning the legality of it. I always find legality arguments with things like this asinine. "Being a dick about it" is sometimes usually perfectly legal.
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