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The Truth About Gaming

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  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,004
    CrazKanuk said:
    wiennas said:
    CrazKanuk said:
    Quirhid said:
    Yup... Just look at all the suckers who think a subscription buys them better quality.
    The game may not be a guarantee, but that sub places a hurdle in front of whacky freeloaders, making the quality of players much better, overall.

    OT: I enjoyed the video.  Pretty much sums my thoughts on the video game industry.  The top point for me was innovations now occurring only in the ways to get gamers' money.
    Actually, of the sub games remaining, where do you see a "quality of players much better"? EVE? Lol, that's hilarious. Even the WoW community has descended into a bunch of immature assholes. This is such a fallacy. If that's what you believe, though, keep telling yourself that. Whatever helps you sleep at night. 

    As far as the video goes, I found it funny. What I also found funny is that it struck a chord with someone. I mean this is cracked, right? Like it's a comedy site, not a real journalism site. It's not based in reality. It's meant to take opinions and blow them up. It's like saying that an article on The Onion really struck a chord and you totally identified with it. 

    Are people being real here? Like, honestly, is this serious? Or did people not get it? 
    Hmm, comedy ..the video bellow is also a comedy, probably you are still very young,..




    Lol, oh you..... I'm not trying to say there isn't bullshit involved, but not to the conspiracy theory levels that so many seem to think. Why is it that we take things to those extremes these days? 

    It's like this. We bitch and whine about how horrible everything is. Then people improve stuff. Then we bitch and whine about how they are always changing stuff. 

    Reality:
    Cost of a video game adjusted for inflation.... cheaper than ever. 




    Cost of an average game developer...... increasing over time



    Cost to develop games, on average...... Increasing incrementally




    However, I guess it's bullshit that a company wants to make money. It's really difficult to make arguments about being robbed when game company closures in recent years has been almost pandemic. 

    I would argue that if you're complaining about video games and the costs of games, YOU are obviously the one who is still very young. If you never shopped for an Atari game and have your parents lament about how expensive they were, then you have no frame of reference. 

    According to those charts they should be losing money and not making millions and some billions annually. 

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,004

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • RusqueRusque Member RarePosts: 2,785


    According to those charts they should be losing money and not making millions and some billions annually. 
    Well yeah, gaming became mainstream in the 2000's. You don't need to keep jacking up the price if you make a ton on volume. You find the point where you maximize price vs demand and that's it. If demand were sufficiently high at $60, then it stays at $60 in order to remain competitive against the market. Even if some people are willing to pay $65 for a game, if other companies don't play along and undercut you by $5 . . . you see where this is going.

    Games are this really weird subject, at least in the US. There's this weird mentality that games should be accessible and free. People argue to death over medical care for citizens, but video games (an entertainment product luxury) somehow cost too much and more of them should be free. It's crazy how asinine it is.
  • JermzyJermzy Member UncommonPosts: 211
    When EQ, AC, DAoC all came out, the games were, for the most part, made by some folks that were really passionate about the game itself.  In todays world, it is all about the money, nothing else.  Don't get me wrong, some of the cash grab games are actually ok.  However, i tend to follow the games made by the smaller indie companies that have no suits breathing down their necks.
    Haroo!
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    I never understood why trailers rarely had anything to do with gameplay.  Oh WOW look at that trailer and for some reason I don't realize it isnt the actual game at all.



    Neverwinter trailer



    Warcraft Mists of Pandaria trailer



    Warcraft Legion trailer



    My personal favorite because my friend couldn't wait for the game.  Neverwinter Nights trailer which has absolutely nothing at all to do with the game itself.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    edited April 2016
    CrazKanuk said:
    wiennas said:
    CrazKanuk said:
    Quirhid said:
    Yup... Just look at all the suckers who think a subscription buys them better quality.
    The game may not be a guarantee, but that sub places a hurdle in front of whacky freeloaders, making the quality of players much better, overall.

    OT: I enjoyed the video.  Pretty much sums my thoughts on the video game industry.  The top point for me was innovations now occurring only in the ways to get gamers' money.
    Actually, of the sub games remaining, where do you see a "quality of players much better"? EVE? Lol, that's hilarious. Even the WoW community has descended into a bunch of immature assholes. This is such a fallacy. If that's what you believe, though, keep telling yourself that. Whatever helps you sleep at night. 

    As far as the video goes, I found it funny. What I also found funny is that it struck a chord with someone. I mean this is cracked, right? Like it's a comedy site, not a real journalism site. It's not based in reality. It's meant to take opinions and blow them up. It's like saying that an article on The Onion really struck a chord and you totally identified with it. 

    Are people being real here? Like, honestly, is this serious? Or did people not get it? 
    Hmm, comedy ..the video bellow is also a comedy, probably you are still very young,..




    Lol, oh you..... I'm not trying to say there isn't bullshit involved, but not to the conspiracy theory levels that so many seem to think. Why is it that we take things to those extremes these days? 

    It's like this. We bitch and whine about how horrible everything is. Then people improve stuff. Then we bitch and whine about how they are always changing stuff. 

    Reality:
    Cost of a video game adjusted for inflation.... cheaper than ever. 




    Cost of an average game developer...... increasing over time



    Cost to develop games, on average...... Increasing incrementally




    However, I guess it's bullshit that a company wants to make money. It's really difficult to make arguments about being robbed when game company closures in recent years has been almost pandemic. 

    I would argue that if you're complaining about video games and the costs of games, YOU are obviously the one who is still very young. If you never shopped for an Atari game and have your parents lament about how expensive they were, then you have no frame of reference. 

    According to those charts they should be losing money and not making millions and some billions annually. 

    Here, go take a peek for yourself: http://fortune.com/fortune500/

    Just search for Electronic Arts and Activision. Neither fall into the Fortune 500. Activision is, actually, much more profitable at around $850M. EA, it says $8M? That must be a mis-print though. Can't even find Sony on the list, lol. 

    Either way, these two companies are easily the largest game companies in the world and they don't even fall into the Fortune 500. Shoot, Wal-Mart makes like 50 times what they do, lol.

    Please, feel free to prove me wrong. I'll look at any data you might have. I think your statement on revenues has already been rebutted   

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536
    Amathe said:
    It's funny, but I'm not having a moment of truth type experience here. 
    That's because its satirical. Which is making fun of sad truths people already identify with.


  • VestigeGamerVestigeGamer Member UncommonPosts: 518
    edited April 2016
    CrazKanuk said:
    As far as the video goes, I found it funny. What I also found funny is that it struck a chord with someone. I mean this is cracked, right? Like it's a comedy site, not a real journalism site. It's not based in reality. It's meant to take opinions and blow them up. It's like saying that an article on The Onion really struck a chord and you totally identified with it. 

    Are people being real here? Like, honestly, is this serious? Or did people not get it? 
    You do realize that sarcasm and parody are based in reality, right?  Looks like that video flew right over your head.  I also laughed.  But then the realization that this is so true stopped that laughter.

    Now, if you think the gaming industry is all honky-dorey and "the best thing evah!", have fun spending your money.  The industry as a whole is getting less and less of my own money.  Maybe we'll cancel each other out?

    VG

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    CrazKanuk said:
    As far as the video goes, I found it funny. What I also found funny is that it struck a chord with someone. I mean this is cracked, right? Like it's a comedy site, not a real journalism site. It's not based in reality. It's meant to take opinions and blow them up. It's like saying that an article on The Onion really struck a chord and you totally identified with it. 

    Are people being real here? Like, honestly, is this serious? Or did people not get it? 
    You do realize that sarcasm and parody are based in reality, right?  Looks like that video flew right over your head.  I also laughed.  But then the realization that this is so true stopped that laughter.

    Now, if you think the gaming industry is all honky-dorey and "the best thing evah!", have fun spending your money.  The industry as a whole is getting less and less of my own money.  Maybe we'll cancel each other out?

    Sure, and I'm not saying that there are some truths about what was said, but it's hardly rooted in evidence and much more in Internet conspiracy theories and propaganda. I just showed you that the biggest of game companies aren't even bigger than 600 other companies. They aren't raking in money like crazy! In addition to that, the DLC commentary is hilarious. The singular difference between DLC and a 90s expansion is that in the 90s we paid $50 for all the content at once. Now we pay for content pieces individually. OH! But you can buy the Season Pass for $50. So there's really no difference there. 

    As far as quality goes, yup! There has been some shit dropped. I think this stems from the fact we can fix things on the fly now. So why fix now when we can fix later? The Day zero patches have increased significantly. It would be different if we were flashing it to a cartridge, and it was. However, that being said, at least things CAN be fixed now. There were some horrible NES games, and they are just broken, you can't fix that. Imagine online games on a cartridge. Horribly broken functionality that cannot be fixed? That being said, I think there needs to be some focus on the idea of First Impressions. 

    I already threw it out there, by all means give me some truths. Show me how these "criminals" are flourishing. The truth is that they aren't. Hence, money is diverted into projects that are proven to make money. Innovation is crippled. People spend less money because it's all the same. Downward spiral into oblivion. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • stimulus999stimulus999 Member UncommonPosts: 35
    i know it sounds silly , but watch South Park's "Freemium Isnt Free "
    it explains exactly how game development companies work now. short term players are the money...long term players are costly.. make incentives for short terms to spend money while also making incentives for long terms to quit. 
    ive been warned .lol
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    i know it sounds silly , but watch South Park's "Freemium Isnt Free "
    it explains exactly how game development companies work now. short term players are the money...long term players are costly.. make incentives for short terms to spend money while also making incentives for long terms to quit. 

    Unless they're a whale. So you introduce ridiculously high RNG-based "micro-payments" and you kill two birds with one stone. Longer players who aren't spending money leave because that's P2W bullshit, and whales stick around because they can now get OP.

    I so got suckered into this. $5 "Introductory Offer" that I bought after about a week of playing a game and saw the value. Every deal after that? Like not even as good as the introductory offer and is like $40.....minimum! The good ones are like $150. I'd quit, but then they win! 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504
    i know it sounds silly , but watch South Park's "Freemium Isnt Free "
    it explains exactly how game development companies work now. short term players are the money...long term players are costly.. make incentives for short terms to spend money while also making incentives for long terms to quit. 
    I assume you don't look at top-grossing charts for any platform.  If you did, you'd understand that the types of games making the most money also have good player retention, with large playerbases sticking around with these games for a long time.

    Essentially what you're describing here is the exact opposite of how it works.  Only a few games like Game of War work off a low-player-retention model and still manage to attain high revenue, and they do this through very costly and aggressive marketing (which is why short-term players aren't "the money", since scraping the bottom of the install barrel actually costs you more money per player-install.  Conversely a game with high retention can afford to advertise only with the cheaper and more efficient advertising choices.)

    But the reason Game of War's model works of course is that they have whales which go far beyond a typical whale, spending and playing vastly longer than typical players do.  So the majority of their revenue is still coming from long-term players.

    Meanwhile that's not the dominant business model in F2P, and stuff like Clash of Clans or League of Legends works off a much friendly new player experience where more players make it to the middle of the funnel (compared with Game of War where the early experience is awful.)

    While some of what was said in Freemium isn't Free is truth filtered through typical Southpark parody, the thing you're describing wasn't actually portrayed in the episode as far as I recall.

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 10,020
    Quirhid said:
    Yup... Just look at all the suckers who think a subscription buys them better quality.
    Theres a mentality that you get what you pay for but i only found that true with a few things in life and gaming was not one of them.
  • vandal5627vandal5627 Member UncommonPosts: 788
    The truth is you play, you finish it, get bored, get pissed, disappointed etc.....find another, rinse and repeat.
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,617
    They are just people.  

    Players are people asking too much while trying to get pirated games as much as possible too.

    It's just capitalism.
  • DeivosDeivos Member EpicPosts: 3,692
    edited April 2016
    Axehilt said:
    i know it sounds silly , but watch South Park's "Freemium Isnt Free "
    it explains exactly how game development companies work now. short term players are the money...long term players are costly.. make incentives for short terms to spend money while also making incentives for long terms to quit. 
    I assume you don't look at top-grossing charts for any platform.  If you did, you'd understand that the types of games making the most money also have good player retention, with large playerbases sticking around with these games for a long time.
    Considering LoL tops such charts and in fact has horrible player retention, We can assume you don't look at those charts either. You're putting in a lot of assumptions that are pretty simply not true, and any charts makes that pretty clear. Lets not misinform people.

    Turnover on many games, and especially in the mass-market consumer driven F2P genre, the turnover rate for even successful games tends to remain high if not higher than average because the strongest form of income is not necessarily retention, but the turnover of consumers on impulse purchases and whales investing into a title for dominance or to foster community.

    It's that ancillary effect that drives retention in most cases. Where content does get developed to create long-term player retention is by altering challenges of certain activities, adjusting stats on content to drive re-gearing and retraining for FOTM builds, or competitive play that is driven by a regular schedule of new characters/classes to buy.

    The majority of the revenue is stretched across this broad spectrum, and most of it is not long term players. Much of it comes from the types that buy in so they feel obligated, and drop off. Then there is the largely intermittent crowd that you see in many titles that basically waits for a content update, plays in bursts, and then goes back to other stuff. The people that are dedicated players in most any games is generally few by contrast to the revenue base you pull from the rest of the spectrum of players.

    "The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    i know it sounds silly , but watch South Park's "Freemium Isnt Free "
    it explains exactly how game development companies work now. short term players are the money...long term players are costly.. make incentives for short terms to spend money while also making incentives for long terms to quit. 
    Sounds right. The fact that 80% of f2p game players quit in 30 days probably is not by accident. Entertain whoever come into the game for 2 weeks, figure out who are the whales & fleece them (that is why the game need the 2-4 weeks retention), then try to encourage them to quit by putting up pay walls (because long term freeplayers are costly).


  • Gamer54321Gamer54321 Member UncommonPosts: 452
    OP is a bullshitter I think.

    I think it is fair to suspect that game development is foremost about an industry that wants to make money, and lots of it.

    The tragedy of players accepting imo bad games, can't be explained with bs psychology, because playing a game is always an option as a means to make use of ones time in life, and to simply stipulate that playing games to be an activity that is afflicted with pathological addiction, seem like such a broad generalization that it sounds wrong.

    And then there is the is ought problem, just because some players were to suggest or state that they feel gaming is addictive to them, that should not entail some greater truth to gaming as such.
  • UbradolUbradol Member UncommonPosts: 45
    Can't really argue against his points, no.
    www.Argardh.com F2P, Open-source with low-req/graphic MMORPG launching Open-Beta on 23rd August. Based on Tibia 8.6
    Follow us: www.facebook.com/Argardh Youtube-channel: www.youtube.com/channel/UCNmxHWGpO790r-4wn4AEeSA

  • jimmywolfjimmywolf Member UncommonPosts: 292
    CrazKanuk said:
    As far as the video goes, I found it funny. What I also found funny is that it struck a chord with someone. I mean this is cracked, right? Like it's a comedy site, not a real journalism site. It's not based in reality. It's meant to take opinions and blow them up. It's like saying that an article on The Onion really struck a chord and you totally identified with it. 

    Are people being real here? Like, honestly, is this serious? Or did people not get it? 
    You do realize that sarcasm and parody are based in reality, right?  Looks like that video flew right over your head.  I also laughed.  But then the realization that this is so true stopped that laughter.

    Now, if you think the gaming industry is all honky-dorey and "the best thing evah!", have fun spending your money.  The industry as a whole is getting less and less of my own money.  Maybe we'll cancel each other out?
    the OP an this post share a similar illusion that if things not not a certain way it must be bad so it must be avoided drugs,sex,money, power many different things in this world can give pleasure  an all can have a very strong negative.

    you could argue they different subjects but reality is their one in the same, anything that can offer a escape from reality or a moment of happiness that waste time, could be slapped as the start of this thread an we would have similar post that we have now.



    to that i say. the truth is the truth, only your perception changed. 



  • VestigeGamerVestigeGamer Member UncommonPosts: 518
    CrazKanuk said:
    CrazKanuk said:
    As far as the video goes, I found it funny. What I also found funny is that it struck a chord with someone. I mean this is cracked, right? Like it's a comedy site, not a real journalism site. It's not based in reality. It's meant to take opinions and blow them up. It's like saying that an article on The Onion really struck a chord and you totally identified with it. 

    Are people being real here? Like, honestly, is this serious? Or did people not get it? 
    You do realize that sarcasm and parody are based in reality, right?  Looks like that video flew right over your head.  I also laughed.  But then the realization that this is so true stopped that laughter.

    Now, if you think the gaming industry is all honky-dorey and "the best thing evah!", have fun spending your money.  The industry as a whole is getting less and less of my own money.  Maybe we'll cancel each other out?

    Sure, and I'm not saying that there are some truths about what was said, but it's hardly rooted in evidence and much more in Internet conspiracy theories and propaganda. I just showed you that the biggest of game companies aren't even bigger than 600 other companies. They aren't raking in money like crazy! In addition to that, the DLC commentary is hilarious. The singular difference between DLC and a 90s expansion is that in the 90s we paid $50 for all the content at once. Now we pay for content pieces individually. OH! But you can buy the Season Pass for $50. So there's really no difference there. 

    As far as quality goes, yup! There has been some shit dropped. I think this stems from the fact we can fix things on the fly now. So why fix now when we can fix later? The Day zero patches have increased significantly. It would be different if we were flashing it to a cartridge, and it was. However, that being said, at least things CAN be fixed now. There were some horrible NES games, and they are just broken, you can't fix that. Imagine online games on a cartridge. Horribly broken functionality that cannot be fixed? That being said, I think there needs to be some focus on the idea of First Impressions. 

    I already threw it out there, by all means give me some truths. Show me how these "criminals" are flourishing. The truth is that they aren't. Hence, money is diverted into projects that are proven to make money. Innovation is crippled. People spend less money because it's all the same. Downward spiral into oblivion. 
    By "these criminals", I am taking you mean game developers and publishers?  If so, I thought the whole gaming industry is flourishing.  Isn't that "proved" in almost every "new games vs old games" thread?

    More players playing more games for more money.  That's kind of the accepted way of seeing the industry right now, isn't it?

    Also, quality is a very subjective term and there are lots of players that think games today are "the best thing since sliced bread."  I have a feeling they would say most games today are much higher quality than games of yesteryore.  In some ways, they are.  I do not miss setting IRQs and DMAs.

    VG

  • howstupidisthishowstupidisthis Member UncommonPosts: 147
    Quirhid said:
    Yup... Just look at all the suckers who think a subscription buys them better quality.

    In the past a sub ALWAYS meant better quality, but thanks to impatient gamers who hop from game to game, we get copies of previous games with a few bells added.
    So devs went the F2P model, which lasted a few years but it's dead now too.

    The PC and subscriptions are coming back  :)
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,617
    I think people generalize things too much.  Some games have a large team continue developing which probably warrant a subscription.  Some games have a tiny team maintaining, or even on autopilot.

    Some games sold too many copies, they can probably manage as buy to play.  Most games don't.  There is no one fit all solution.
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,004
    filmoret said:
    I never understood why trailers rarely had anything to do with gameplay.  Oh WOW look at that trailer and for some reason I don't realize it isnt the actual game at all.



    Neverwinter trailer



    Warcraft Mists of Pandaria trailer



    Warcraft Legion trailer



    My personal favorite because my friend couldn't wait for the game.  Neverwinter Nights trailer which has absolutely nothing at all to do with the game itself.
    I agree, now I want to see real time game play.  I want to see what the UI looks like and how it actually plays on pc.  When people see those trailers the mind automatically fills in the details.  The assumption is that the game will play great, combat will be great, no lag, no bots, no gold sellers, cause those things are never in the trailers.  You also know to be careful when the reviewers use the word 'hope' a lot.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Eadan1 said:

    Subscription doesn't necesserily buy you better quality, but cash shops guarantee non existing quality.
    All sub-only games have cash shops too .. they are not mutually exclusive. 
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