If you think a $30 price tag will stop griefers, you are sadly mistaken.
Some people take HUGE pleasure in ruining other's game play. CoE will attract them like flies to...
I have never seen a MMO which allows PK'ing manage to reduce that PK'ing to insignificant levels. It's a bit counter-intuitive to design a raft of features and then make them near impossible to use practically.
Everyone understands (or should!) that this is an open world PvP game. That's why you need families and friends ingame. That's why you have to interact with other players and npc's - to protect each other. The only reasonably safe areas will be in towns and cities.
How are people going ruin other's game play?
You can't corpse camp - people can choose to respawn some distance away from their corpse.
The spirit loss on 'death' only happens once every 2.5 hours or so, you'd have to be pretty thick to stick around that long if you were unable to fight back effectively for any reason.
There's no guarantee that a defeat is going to result in a coup de grace anyway (the only way for a player to kill a character) since that takes time to do and any of the potential victims friends/family or any passerby or npc friendly to that player could intervene.
The truth is that none of really know exactly how this is going to turn out but I'm backing the project because they're offering a chance for us to see something innovative in the MMO genre. Something new which, lets face it, is very badly needed.
lunawisp was my peacebringer in City of Heroes. She lives on, in memory, as my gaming id
I'm a little confused, there are duels and PvP enabled zones in this game (zones where there is no penalty if you kill another player), correct? Punishing all PvP would definitely limit the customer base. I like PvP, but I want to choose when I do so, which is why I love games with PvP zones. When I walk into these types of zones, I know exactly what to expect... Which is why I go in them!
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
There are no no-go areas but CoE has the concept of 'legailty'. Basically, if the 'killing' is deemed legal, then there are no repercussions.
There are a couple of areas where killings are legal in the game.
Where someone has a price on his head, usually for murder (!) and has been declared wanted by whoever is running that area. Maybe a king or his representative, not sure how far down the line that ability goes.
Where war has been declared, Killing someone on the other side when you're at war carries no penalty.
Of course, the penalties only take effect if you're actually caught. If you're a poor assassin and you're getting caught every time you stick your nose out of the door it's going to be an expensive game. If, however, you're adept at escaping detection and nobody puts a price on your head then you could get away scott free.
lunawisp was my peacebringer in City of Heroes. She lives on, in memory, as my gaming id
We here some version of "You can't corpse camp - people can choose to respawn some distance away from their corpse." a lot. Has SBS given any indication on how far the 'some distance away' is?
Has SBS stated how robust the 'law' will be for the game? We know that the king is supposedly able to make the laws for their respective countries. Will they be able to make the nobility immune to most crimes? Not to mention the king sets the tax rates.
If you think a $30 price tag will stop griefers, you are sadly mistaken.
Some people take HUGE pleasure in ruining other's game play. CoE will attract them like flies to...
I have never seen a MMO which allows PK'ing manage to reduce that PK'ing to insignificant levels. It's a bit counter-intuitive to design a raft of features and then make them near impossible to use practically.
If you think a spark of life is all you need to fund a griefing campaign, you are even more mistaken.
It astounds me how few people consider WHERE griefers are getting supplied, or HOW they are getting their gear back after their camps are destroyed and all of their in-game possessions are gone.
If you think a $30 price tag will stop griefers, you are sadly mistaken.
Some people take HUGE pleasure in ruining other's game play. CoE will attract them like flies to...
I have never seen a MMO which allows PK'ing manage to reduce that PK'ing to insignificant levels. It's a bit counter-intuitive to design a raft of features and then make them near impossible to use practically.
If you think a spark of life is all you need to fund a griefing campaign, you are even more mistaken.
It astounds me how few people consider WHERE griefers are getting supplied, or HOW they are getting their gear back after their camps are destroyed and all of their in-game possessions are gone.
Have you ever heard of "blue alts"? Every PKer worth his salt has a blue alt or two. Most of them will pay extra if they have to, that's not a deterrent.
Spotty is right. These gamers "play to crush", they usually play multiple games and dropping off one of those to buy into a good Sandbox world where "crush" means so much more is no problem.
The hope is that justice will, to a large extent, be player driven. We'll just have to wait and see how it turns out. At the moment, this is all speculation. because we don't know all the details of the mechanisms they're putting in place.
lunawisp was my peacebringer in City of Heroes. She lives on, in memory, as my gaming id
If you think a $30 price tag will stop griefers, you are sadly mistaken.
Some people take HUGE pleasure in ruining other's game play. CoE will attract them like flies to...
I have never seen a MMO which allows PK'ing manage to reduce that PK'ing to insignificant levels. It's a bit counter-intuitive to design a raft of features and then make them near impossible to use practically.
If you think a spark of life is all you need to fund a griefing campaign, you are even more mistaken.
It astounds me how few people consider WHERE griefers are getting supplied, or HOW they are getting their gear back after their camps are destroyed and all of their in-game possessions are gone.
Have you ever heard of "blue alts"? Every PKer worth his salt has a blue alt or two. Most of them will pay extra if they have to, that's not a deterrent.
Spotty is right. These gamers "play to crush", they usually play multiple games and dropping off one of those to buy into a good Sandbox world where "crush" means so much more is no problem.
Of course they'll try blue alts, but that means they have to do something other than griefing, and then they have to be discreet on top of that, and they have to somehow find lodging for their reds that won't be tracked down and also burned to the ground. I've spent a long time being a griefer in other games, so I know how to grief a griefer.
Raiding is like gambling - its unreliable income. They have to find an honest job, and make money aboveboard.
This takes time.
They have to purchase and acquire their new supplies and then also transport them to their reds without anyone seeing them. This requires caution.
A "cautious" and "patient" griefer does not get a great deal of griefing done, and sounds more like an assassin, which is a fully supported playstyle.
But If even one person finds out the blue alt identity, they're going to be KOS just as well. Laws are up to players - blue alts dont matter if the players know who you are.
You keep missing critical pieces of this problem to fit your narrative, like this is going to be just as easy as it was in past games. It won't be.
This is the first time I've seen anything resembling reasonable pvp controls. I actually think it doesn't go far enough. You want to pvp, then you should pay for behaving like a horrible nasty person in game. We don't just walk around beating people up, or killing people, for their things in real life, there are real consequences for that behavior. There should be real consequences in any game as well. You want to grief people and do nothing else? Then find a game meant for it. It doesn't need to be allowed in every single game.
I think the safe bet here is to realize if you don't like unexpected PVP this game is not for you.
And this is some of our complaint.....WHere is our newer MMO that doesnt force PVP on us?
Agree. When that game comes, I think it will be very popular for many folks. I want to sandbox in peace. Of course there should be PvP in some fashion since many like this aspect. But being ganked out of the blue while I'm fishing, gathering, crafting, no thanks. What I'm reading about CoE makes me uneasy.
I'll probably try this game at some point since it sounds fascinating. It most likely will be a one time purchase with not much money commitment beyond the bare minimum (exactly how I'm playing BDO at the moment). Find me a sandbox game though without forced PvP, then I will be an enormous whale who will gladly support the game financially!
This is the first time I've seen anything resembling reasonable pvp controls. I actually think it doesn't go far enough. You want to pvp, then you should pay for behaving like a horrible nasty person in game. We don't just walk around beating people up, or killing people, for their things in real life, there are real consequences for that behavior. There should be real consequences in any game as well. You want to grief people and do nothing else? Then find a game meant for it. It doesn't need to be allowed in every single game.
I can't agree it's the first reasonable system, I still think SWG had it right in the beginning, Guild Wars and TEFs (temporary enemy flags)... It allowed one to have FFA PVP, Faction PVP or no PVP at all.
I think it should also be pointed out the vast majority of western MMORPG's are PVE centered, in which you never have to worry about PVP or so minded griefers. I'd think "not every game has to be that way" is a much more pertinent statement.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I think the safe bet here is to realize if you don't like unexpected PVP this game is not for you.
And this is some of our complaint.....WHere is our newer MMO that doesnt force PVP on us?
Agree. When that game comes, I think it will be very popular for many folks. I want to sandbox in peace. Of course there should be PvP in some fashion since many like this aspect. But being ganked out of the blue while I'm fishing, gathering, crafting, no thanks. What I'm reading about CoE makes me uneasy.
I'll probably try this game at some point since it sounds fascinating. It most likely will be a one time purchase with not much money commitment beyond the bare minimum (exactly how I'm playing BDO at the moment). Find me a sandbox game though without forced PvP, then I will be an enormous whale who will gladly support the game financially!
There a ton of those games, but you guys always make the same complaints....LOL!
You love the game, but hate the PvP, but refuse to play any other game and when we ask you why, you repeat yourself, saying it's because you love the game. There is only 2 options here, ether you love pvp and you're just afraid to admit because you suck at it or you have this need to destroy all pvp games because you suck at them. I'm leaning towards the latter
EDIT: For example, we are already hearing the same complaints about Star Citizen, and the game is barely out of Alpha. I'm convinced you guys are out to destroy games you suck at, or else you would leave us alone, there are plenty of games that cater just for you. Stop lying about it
I think the safe bet here is to realize if you don't like unexpected PVP this game is not for you.
And this is some of our complaint.....WHere is our newer MMO that doesnt force PVP on us?
Agree. When that game comes, I think it will be very popular for many folks. I want to sandbox in peace. Of course there should be PvP in some fashion since many like this aspect. But being ganked out of the blue while I'm fishing, gathering, crafting, no thanks. What I'm reading about CoE makes me uneasy.
I'll probably try this game at some point since it sounds fascinating. It most likely will be a one time purchase with not much money commitment beyond the bare minimum (exactly how I'm playing BDO at the moment). Find me a sandbox game though without forced PvP, then I will be an enormous whale who will gladly support the game financially!
There are a lot of PVE-minded folks on the CoE forums, long-time community members, who are fully aware of the dangers of pvp in this game. Many of them are simply planning on living behind city walls or protected by the pvp-minded players.
Risk vs reward is what makes decisions in a sandbox mmo have substance -- if you want to live in peace, you have to accept the concession to play a low risk low reward game.
If you can't ever get attacked by players in a sandbox mmo... its just not that risky. That doesn't mean you can't do things in game to mitigate your risk, like living in guarded and armed communities.
There a ton of those games, but you guys always make the same complaints....LOL!
Funny, I've said the same thing about PvP sandbox games. There have been plenty of PvP sandboxes for you people, with more on the way. UO is still around, Darkfall has two companies opening servers plus Unholy Wars, Mortal Online, Black Desert, Archeage, Gloria Victis, Life is Feudal, Black Death, Wizardry Online, EVE Online, Albion Online, Camelot Unchained, Das Tal, Shards Online...
How many PVE sandboxes have there been? Let's see, we've got Project Gorgon... and that's pretty much it. We've had themeparks, not sandboxes.
You've had plenty of games to play, but you people always wind up nit-picking them to death. Between that and the constant griefing of new players, you've killed off almost every PvP sandbox released in the last ten years, or at the very least relegated them to extreme niche status. You're like all the morons fleeing California after ruining it with destructive policies. You go set up someplace else, then start doing the exact same thing, completely oblivious to the fact that it was your policies and behavior which ruined things in the first place.
It's not the fault of those who want a PvE sandbox that you've ignored or ruined every single game that catered to your play style. And you know what? You'll probably ruin this one too.
Good luck.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
There a ton of those games, but you guys always make the same complaints....LOL!
Funny, I've said the same thing about PvP sandbox games. There have been plenty of PvP sandboxes for you people, with more on the way. UO is still around, Darkfall has two companies opening servers plus Unholy Wars, Mortal Online, Black Desert, Archeage, Gloria Victis, Life is Feudal, Black Death, Wizardry Online, EVE Online, Albion Online, Camelot Unchained, Das Tal, Shards Online...
How many PVE sandboxes have there been? Let's see, we've got Project Gorgon... and that's pretty much it. We've had themeparks, not sandboxes.
You've had plenty of games to play, but you people always wind up nit-picking them to death. Between that and the constant griefing of new players, you've killed off almost every PvP sandbox released in the last ten years, or at the very least relegated them to extreme niche status. You're like all the morons fleeing California after ruining it with destructive policies. You go set up someplace else, then start doing the exact same thing, completely oblivious to the fact that it was your policies and behavior which ruined things in the first place.
It's not the fault of those who want a PvE sandbox that you've ignored or ruined every single game that catered to your play style. And you know what? You'll probably ruin this one too.
Good luck.
I'm not a big fan of pvp I prefer pve and would rather build up and rp
But that being said how can a game be truly sandbox if you can't so everything. And everything includes pvp
Agree. When that game comes, I think it will be very popular for many folks. I want to sandbox in peace. Of course there should be PvP in some fashion since many like this aspect. But being ganked out of the blue while I'm fishing, gathering, crafting, no thanks. What I'm reading about CoE makes me uneasy.
I'll probably try this game at some point since it sounds fascinating. It most likely will be a one time purchase with not much money commitment beyond the bare minimum (exactly how I'm playing BDO at the moment). Find me a sandbox game though without forced PvP, then I will be an enormous whale who will gladly support the game financially!
There a ton of those games, but you guys always make the same complaints....LOL!
You love the game, but hate the PvP, but refuse to play any other game and when we ask you why, you repeat yourself, saying it's because you love the game. There is only 2 options here, ether you love pvp and you're just afraid to admit because you suck at it or you have this need to destroy all pvp games because you suck at them. I'm leaning towards the latter
EDIT: For example, we are already hearing the same complaints about Star Citizen, and the game is barely out of Alpha. I'm convinced you guys are out to destroy games you suck at, or else you would leave us alone, there are plenty of games that cater just for you. Stop lying about it
There is a third option. You mention it in the first sentence of your second paragraph but you fail to take it into consideration because it doesn't fit your self-serving troll narrative. And that is because they love the game, but hate forced non-consensual PvP, period. No one refuses to play any other game. As a matter of fact, the large majority of PvEers eventually do exactly that once they reach the point in which they are forced to PvP, and once enough of them leave to do exactly that, the game dies shortly thereafter.
Does it ever occur to the PvP-centric players that perhaps those players that don't want to deal with forced non-consensual PvP is because what really sucks in those MMORPGs is the manner in which players are forced into non-consensual PvP. So it has nothing to do with sucking at those games, as you say, and everything to do because they dont want to deal with the toxic, rude, obnoxious and inconsiderate PvP-centric asshats in those games.
The only games that PvEers like and want to play that have PvP in them are the ones that have a good measure of PvE content and have optional PvP, and they like those games primarily for their PvE content, not their PvP content. You don't see PvEers in fail OWPvP-centric games such as Mortal Online, Darkfall, etc, do you? If developers really wanted to develop PvP games for the OWPvP-centric players they would stop developing games that draw in the PvE players, and their money, with fifty levels of nothing but PvE content, only to do a bait and switch on them and force them to become PvP fodder/content at end game to make a buck. Because we all know that any forced non-consensual OWPvP game without money by the majority PvE gamer demographic is a non-starter fail MMORPG.
I think the safe bet here is to realize if you don't like unexpected PVP this game is not for you.
And this is some of our complaint.....WHere is our newer MMO that doesnt force PVP on us?
Agree. When that game comes, I think it will be very popular for many folks. I want to sandbox in peace. Of course there should be PvP in some fashion since many like this aspect. But being ganked out of the blue while I'm fishing, gathering, crafting, no thanks. What I'm reading about CoE makes me uneasy.
I'll probably try this game at some point since it sounds fascinating. It most likely will be a one time purchase with not much money commitment beyond the bare minimum (exactly how I'm playing BDO at the moment). Find me a sandbox game though without forced PvP, then I will be an enormous whale who will gladly support the game financially!
There a ton of those games, but you guys always make the same complaints....LOL!
You love the game, but hate the PvP, but refuse to play any other game and when we ask you why, you repeat yourself, saying it's because you love the game. There is only 2 options here, ether you love pvp and you're just afraid to admit because you suck at it or you have this need to destroy all pvp games because you suck at them. I'm leaning towards the latter
EDIT: For example, we are already hearing the same complaints about Star Citizen, and the game is barely out of Alpha. I'm convinced you guys are out to destroy games you suck at, or else you would leave us alone, there are plenty of games that cater just for you. Stop lying about it
Point me towards those sandbox PvE games (made recently) and I will try them out! Look, I'm not against PvP at all. And admittedly I do suck at PvP when I enter battlegrounds in other games. I have PvPed----on my terms. It is a fun diversion but I will never be good at it....older gal with bad reflexes. I simply would love a game where I can go about my activities in peace. Read the forums right now in BDO. Many life skill folks are griping about this very thing. They want to fish, horse breed in peace, gather and not have to worry about forced PvP.
It is never my intention to "destroy" any game. As I said in my earlier post, I will try out CoE because it looks fascinating and I love seeing new horizons. If there are mechanisms in game to prevent needless ganking, I can live with that. It sounds like there are fairly stiff penalties. If it becomes a PvP free for all where I can't step out of a safe zone without being immediately wacked, I will happily go play another title out there.
Normally don't respond to these threads but believe me, I have no agenda towards destroying PvP games. If CoE is indeed a PvP centric game to its core, I will have to live with that.
Happy gaming! And thank you @Vucar. I may pop over to the CoE forums and give them in in depth read. Appreciate your constructive comment. Game sounds very intriguing.
Comments
I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.
Some people take HUGE pleasure in ruining other's game play. CoE will attract them like flies to...
I have never seen a MMO which allows PK'ing manage to reduce that PK'ing to insignificant levels. It's a bit counter-intuitive to design a raft of features and then make them near impossible to use practically.
How are people going ruin other's game play?
- You can't corpse camp - people can choose to respawn some distance away from their corpse.
- The spirit loss on 'death' only happens once every 2.5 hours or so, you'd have to be pretty thick to stick around that long if you were unable to fight back effectively for any reason.
- There's no guarantee that a defeat is going to result in a coup de grace anyway (the only way for a player to kill a character) since that takes time to do and any of the potential victims friends/family or any passerby or npc friendly to that player could intervene.
The truth is that none of really know exactly how this is going to turn out but I'm backing the project because they're offering a chance for us to see something innovative in the MMO genre. Something new which, lets face it, is very badly needed.The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
There are a couple of areas where killings are legal in the game.
- Where someone has a price on his head, usually for murder (!) and has been declared wanted by whoever is running that area. Maybe a king or his representative, not sure how far down the line that ability goes.
- Where war has been declared, Killing someone on the other side when you're at war carries no penalty.
Of course, the penalties only take effect if you're actually caught. If you're a poor assassin and you're getting caught every time you stick your nose out of the door it's going to be an expensive game. If, however, you're adept at escaping detection and nobody puts a price on your head then you could get away scott free.Has SBS stated how robust the 'law' will be for the game? We know that the king is supposedly able to make the laws for their respective countries. Will they be able to make the nobility immune to most crimes? Not to mention the king sets the tax rates.
It astounds me how few people consider WHERE griefers are getting supplied, or HOW they are getting their gear back after their camps are destroyed and all of their in-game possessions are gone.
Every PKer worth his salt has a blue alt or two. Most of them will pay extra if they have to, that's not a deterrent.
Spotty is right. These gamers "play to crush", they usually play multiple games and dropping off one of those to buy into a good Sandbox world where "crush" means so much more is no problem.
Once upon a time....
Raiding is like gambling - its unreliable income. They have to find an honest job, and make money aboveboard.
This takes time.
They have to purchase and acquire their new supplies and then also transport them to their reds without anyone seeing them.
This requires caution.
A "cautious" and "patient" griefer does not get a great deal of griefing done, and sounds more like an assassin, which is a fully supported playstyle.
But If even one person finds out the blue alt identity, they're going to be KOS just as well. Laws are up to players - blue alts dont matter if the players know who you are.
You keep missing critical pieces of this problem to fit your narrative, like this is going to be just as easy as it was in past games. It won't be.
All you got is The Vucar Narrative and you keep trying to shove it down everyone's throat.
You have no idea how hard or easy it will be.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Look gankers will survive and be in this game but I don't think it will as prevalent as people think
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I'll probably try this game at some point since it sounds fascinating. It most likely will be a one time purchase with not much money commitment beyond the bare minimum (exactly how I'm playing BDO at the moment). Find me a sandbox game though without forced PvP, then I will be an enormous whale who will gladly support the game financially!
I think it should also be pointed out the vast majority of western MMORPG's are PVE centered, in which you never have to worry about PVP or so minded griefers. I'd think "not every game has to be that way" is a much more pertinent statement.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You love the game, but hate the PvP, but refuse to play any other game and when we ask you why, you repeat yourself, saying it's because you love the game.
There is only 2 options here, ether you love pvp and you're just afraid to admit because you suck at it or you have this need to destroy all pvp games because you suck at them.
I'm leaning towards the latter
EDIT: For example, we are already hearing the same complaints about Star Citizen, and the game is barely out of Alpha.
I'm convinced you guys are out to destroy games you suck at, or else you would leave us alone, there are plenty of games that cater just for you.
Stop lying about it
Risk vs reward is what makes decisions in a sandbox mmo have substance -- if you want to live in peace, you have to accept the concession to play a low risk low reward game.
If you can't ever get attacked by players in a sandbox mmo... its just not that risky. That doesn't mean you can't do things in game to mitigate your risk, like living in guarded and armed communities.
How many PVE sandboxes have there been? Let's see, we've got Project Gorgon... and that's pretty much it. We've had themeparks, not sandboxes.
You've had plenty of games to play, but you people always wind up nit-picking them to death. Between that and the constant griefing of new players, you've killed off almost every PvP sandbox released in the last ten years, or at the very least relegated them to extreme niche status. You're like all the morons fleeing California after ruining it with destructive policies. You go set up someplace else, then start doing the exact same thing, completely oblivious to the fact that it was your policies and behavior which ruined things in the first place.
It's not the fault of those who want a PvE sandbox that you've ignored or ruined every single game that catered to your play style. And you know what? You'll probably ruin this one too.
Good luck.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
#IStandWithVic
But that being said how can a game be truly sandbox if you can't so everything.
And everything includes pvp
There is a third option. You mention it in the first sentence of your second paragraph but you fail to take it into consideration because it doesn't fit your self-serving troll narrative. And that is because they love the game, but hate forced non-consensual PvP, period. No one refuses to play any other game. As a matter of fact, the large majority of PvEers eventually do exactly that once they reach the point in which they are forced to PvP, and once enough of them leave to do exactly that, the game dies shortly thereafter.
Does it ever occur to the PvP-centric players that perhaps those players that don't want to deal with forced non-consensual PvP is because what really sucks in those MMORPGs is the manner in which players are forced into non-consensual PvP. So it has nothing to do with sucking at those games, as you say, and everything to do because they dont want to deal with the toxic, rude, obnoxious and inconsiderate PvP-centric asshats in those games.
The only games that PvEers like and want to play that have PvP in them are the ones that have a good measure of PvE content and have optional PvP, and they like those games primarily for their PvE content, not their PvP content. You don't see PvEers in fail OWPvP-centric games such as Mortal Online, Darkfall, etc, do you? If developers really wanted to develop PvP games for the OWPvP-centric players they would stop developing games that draw in the PvE players, and their money, with fifty levels of nothing but PvE content, only to do a bait and switch on them and force them to become PvP fodder/content at end game to make a buck. Because we all know that any forced non-consensual OWPvP game without money by the majority PvE gamer demographic is a non-starter fail MMORPG.
It is never my intention to "destroy" any game. As I said in my earlier post, I will try out CoE because it looks fascinating and I love seeing new horizons. If there are mechanisms in game to prevent needless ganking, I can live with that. It sounds like there are fairly stiff penalties. If it becomes a PvP free for all where I can't step out of a safe zone without being immediately wacked, I will happily go play another title out there.
Normally don't respond to these threads but believe me, I have no agenda towards destroying PvP games. If CoE is indeed a PvP centric game to its core, I will have to live with that.
Happy gaming! And thank you @Vucar. I may pop over to the CoE forums and give them in in depth read. Appreciate your constructive comment. Game sounds very intriguing.