Simple point is slapshot doesn't like CoE because of this he hasn't actually bothered to learn about it properly.
Therefore it's pointless arguing with him. In fact as was pointed out to me arguing with him diminishes your input and makes our community seem toxic when it's not.
I would like to ask a favour of all the CoE community. From now and onwards let's ignore slapshot and Company who constantly slag off CoE and have decent conversations between ourselves and new member to this game / dorm
Simple point is slapshot doesn't like CoE because of this he hasn't actually bothered to learn about it properly.
Who said I didn't like the concepts of the game? I actually have 2 of the limited tiers reserved and have since 2 minutes after the Kickstarter went live. If I keep the pledge at the end I will likely have to do the $120 Bloodlines to get the 3 month headstart.
I just firmly believe that diehards who create unrealistic expectations for a game set the game up for failure. I mean, when someone has "SPREAD THE WORD OF COE!" as their signature... it kind of signifies something beyond normal fandom.
Even the fans cannot agree on the P2W question. Some justify it as a reward for early backing, some make a silly argument based around the definition of winning. Believe me, if I do the Bloodlines Pledges I will squeeze out every last ounce of advantage the 3 months gives me and be ready for the plebs.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Simple point is slapshot doesn't like CoE because of this he hasn't actually bothered to learn about it properly.
Who said I didn't like the concepts of the game? I actually have 2 of the limited tiers reserved and have since 2 minutes after the Kickstarter went live. If I keep the pledge at the end I will likely have to do the $120 Bloodlines to get the 3 month headstart.
I just firmly believe that diehards who create unrealistic expectations for a game set the game up for failure. I mean, when someone has "SPREAD THE WORD OF COE!" as their signature... it kind of signifies something beyond normal fandom.
Even the fans cannot agree on the P2W question. Some justify it as a reward for early backing, some make a silly argument based around the definition of winning. Believe me, if I do the Bloodlines Pledges I will squeeze out every last ounce of advantage the 3 months gives me and be ready for the plebs.
Maybe it's because the term P2W means different things to different people? As well as the impact means different things to different people? An example being some view some of the systems in EVE as "P2W" while others would try and make you look foolish for thinking you're winning anything with those purchases.
Why? Because the nature of a game makes a difference to many on how advantages and purchases effect the playing field. That doesn't make them toxic, that doesn't hurt a game, that's just people having different outlooks, nothing less, nothing more.
To some a label is meaningless without context, to some a label alone means everything.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If having a pack mule a launch is winning, if having the title of king at launch is winning, if playing 3 months earlier is winning, then yes this game is pay to win. If you think any of these will give you an advantage in game, then by all means buy them. Don't complain at launch when you get killed and your stuff stolen, by a "pleb" who has more real life skill than you.
Simple point is slapshot doesn't like CoE because of this he hasn't actually bothered to learn about it properly.
Who said I didn't like the concepts of the game? I actually have 2 of the limited tiers reserved and have since 2 minutes after the Kickstarter went live. If I keep the pledge at the end I will likely have to do the $120 Bloodlines to get the 3 month headstart.
I just firmly believe that diehards who create unrealistic expectations for a game set the game up for failure. I mean, when someone has "SPREAD THE WORD OF COE!" as their signature... it kind of signifies something beyond normal fandom.
Even the fans cannot agree on the P2W question. Some justify it as a reward for early backing, some make a silly argument based around the definition of winning. Believe me, if I do the Bloodlines Pledges I will squeeze out every last ounce of advantage the 3 months gives me and be ready for the plebs.
Then why are you slagging off everything about the game?
Simple point is slapshot doesn't like CoE because of this he hasn't actually bothered to learn about it properly.
Who said I didn't like the concepts of the game? I actually have 2 of the limited tiers reserved and have since 2 minutes after the Kickstarter went live. If I keep the pledge at the end I will likely have to do the $120 Bloodlines to get the 3 month headstart.
I just firmly believe that diehards who create unrealistic expectations for a game set the game up for failure. I mean, when someone has "SPREAD THE WORD OF COE!" as their signature... it kind of signifies something beyond normal fandom.
Even the fans cannot agree on the P2W question. Some justify it as a reward for early backing, some make a silly argument based around the definition of winning. Believe me, if I do the Bloodlines Pledges I will squeeze out every last ounce of advantage the 3 months gives me and be ready for the plebs.
Then why are you slagging off everything about the game?
Just wait.... he's just getting started.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Simple point is slapshot doesn't like CoE because of this he hasn't actually bothered to learn about it properly.
Who said I didn't like the concepts of the game? I actually have 2 of the limited tiers reserved and have since 2 minutes after the Kickstarter went live. If I keep the pledge at the end I will likely have to do the $120 Bloodlines to get the 3 month headstart.
I just firmly believe that diehards who create unrealistic expectations for a game set the game up for failure. I mean, when someone has "SPREAD THE WORD OF COE!" as their signature... it kind of signifies something beyond normal fandom.
Even the fans cannot agree on the P2W question. Some justify it as a reward for early backing, some make a silly argument based around the definition of winning. Believe me, if I do the Bloodlines Pledges I will squeeze out every last ounce of advantage the 3 months gives me and be ready for the plebs.
Then why are you slagging off everything about the game?
Just wait.... he's just getting started.
You know it
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Simple point is slapshot doesn't like CoE because of this he hasn't actually bothered to learn about it properly.
Who said I didn't like the concepts of the game? I actually have 2 of the limited tiers reserved and have since 2 minutes after the Kickstarter went live. If I keep the pledge at the end I will likely have to do the $120 Bloodlines to get the 3 month headstart.
I just firmly believe that diehards who create unrealistic expectations for a game set the game up for failure. I mean, when someone has "SPREAD THE WORD OF COE!" as their signature... it kind of signifies something beyond normal fandom.
Even the fans cannot agree on the P2W question. Some justify it as a reward for early backing, some make a silly argument based around the definition of winning. Believe me, if I do the Bloodlines Pledges I will squeeze out every last ounce of advantage the 3 months gives me and be ready for the plebs.
Then why are you slagging off everything about the game?
Just wait.... he's just getting started.
Was that...a princess bride reference or was I reaching? Truly, you have a dizzying intellect. Wait till I get going!
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I can understand where Slapshot is coming from, no truly I can. 3 Months gives you time to learn the game better, raise your skills higher than others (giving you some advantage) and "establishing" yourself in the world. You understand the mechanics better than others. So I can see his side of the argument.
However I can also see why this isn't as big of a problem as it is in other games. In other games, you keep your levels, you keep your armor, you keep your mounts. If you buy a plus 6 sword of awesomeness. It's yours for all time. You now win because you have that sword and noone can take it from you.
While yes you get armor, this can be lost if you happen upon some band of merry men who decided they liked your shield for their wall, but didn't like your face.
As a king you are at much higher risk of losing that title if you go to war or being killed as king with no heir.
Skills if you commit crimes (where the the advantage really matters to others) deteriorate in jail so you can lose those as well.
The only lasting advantage that can't be taken away by some game mechanic is your own knowledge of the game, which is determined more by your learning ability than the game itself.
We also have to do one final thing, equate what you are getting to how it helps you in-game. If getting that piece of equipment makes it so you can't be taken down. Then yes, it's pay to win. However if someone can still take you down 1 vs 1. It really isn't in my opinion as all you did was buy that armor with a different currency, from which I can use in-game currency to get something just as good.
If something doesn't get an unfair advantage to the point I can't win no matter what I do then I equate that with Pay 2 Win. If however I can use my skills, my friends, and equip apporiate armor and beat you. Then I don't.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Using cash to gain an advantage is P2W. That's the definition of it...
It has nothing to do with the possibility of losing that advantage.
Yes if you're only interested in applying a label with a stigma the nature of that "advantage" is unimportant, yet if you want to understand how the advantage works, as well as know what kind of impact it might have. That would be an important factor, no?
No, actually it wouldn't.
That would merely being an argument of the degree to which it was P2W, not whether it was or not.
Do you know what is a pay to win saga of lucimia pre-orders that is some damn fishy Pay 2 win right there ....Am I right slap? Did you get your Starter Relic Weapon, Starter Relic Boots or a free tax apartment a starter mount or pack mule.??? Damn such a bias attitude I fell bad for you pal ....
I can understand where Slapshot is coming from, no truly I can. 2 Months gives you time to learn the game better, raise your skills higher than others (giving you some advantage) and "establishing" yourself in the world. You understand the mechanics better than others. So I can see his side of the argument.
Where that argument breaks down for me is after 6 months, after 12 months, after -insert-... There are still going to be new people joining, if the game is good.
In the end someone always has such a disadvantage in a persistent on-line game. Especially in sandboxes, PVP focused or not. Not to mention there are plenty of folks like myself who wait until the dust settles before buying games in the first place, that's almost always 3 or more months post release.
So sure some people get to have a nice head-start, that doesn't mean the game is ruined outright, nor does it mean that will be detrimental to those coming in post 3 months. To me it doesn't mean much at all TBH, outside of some folks paid for a head-start.
IF the game is worth a damn that won't matter in the least bit to me. It would only matter if it's some instant I win button going forward, which all signs point to that not being the case.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Using cash to gain an advantage is P2W. That's the definition of it...
It has nothing to do with the possibility of losing that advantage.
Yes if you're only interested in applying a label with a stigma the nature of that "advantage" is unimportant, yet if you want to understand how the advantage works, as well as know what kind of impact it might have. That would be an important factor, no?
No, actually it wouldn't.
That would merely being an argument of the degree to which it was P2W, not whether it was or not.
Do you know what is a pay to win saga of lucimia pre-orders that is some damn fishy Pay 2 win right there ....Am I right slap? Did you get your Starter Relic Weapon, Starter Relic Boots or a free tax apartment a starter mount or pack mule.??? Damn such a bias attitude I fell bad for you pal ....
Are you kidding me? I'm the biggest pain in the ass the SoL guys have seen. I haven't spent a cent on the game so you might want to actually check what you are saying before you talk nonsense again. I believe in challenging the developers and keeping them honest. I don't think "my game" is special and will magically avoid all the pitfalls of those that came before.
You can certainly disagree with me, but to claim I'm not totally consistent is just utterly foolish on your part.
PS: Same with the PFO guys, the Greedmonger guys and the Mortal Online guys. I call it like I see it.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Using cash to gain an advantage is P2W. That's the definition of it...
It has nothing to do with the possibility of losing that advantage.
Yes if you're only interested in applying a label with a stigma the nature of that "advantage" is unimportant, yet if you want to understand how the advantage works, as well as know what kind of impact it might have. That would be an important factor, no?
No, actually it wouldn't.
That would merely being an argument of the degree to which it was P2W, not whether it was or not.
Do you know what is a pay to win saga of lucimia pre-orders that is some damn fishy Pay 2 win right there ....Am I right slap? Did you get your Starter Relic Weapon, Starter Relic Boots or a free tax apartment a starter mount or pack mule.??? Damn such a bias attitude I fell bad for you pal ....
Are you kidding me? I'm the biggest pain in the ass the SoL guys have seen. I haven't spent a cent on the game so you might want to actually check what you are saying before you talk nonsense again. I believe in challenging the developers and keeping them honest. I don't think "my game" is special and will magically avoid all the pitfalls of those that came before.
You can certainly disagree with me, but to claim I'm not totally consistent is just utterly foolish on your part.
PS: Same with the PFO guys, the Greedmonger guys and the Mortal Online guys. I call it like I see it.
Well your sight sucks pretty badly. You decided what your opinion was based on a weak understanding of how the game is setup and even though it's been explained to you multiple times why you're mistaken, you refuse to see it. The problem is between your ears not with the game.
It's funny how often history repeats itself. Substitute SedrynTyros with another name from another game. All rose colored glasses, all attacking people who dare to challenge "their game". The problem is that you folks take criticism of "your game" as a personal attack and then respond similarly.
How many million dollar Kickstarter MMORPGs have successfully funded and successfully launched? Oh that's right, NONE. If we want to be really generous and say Elite is an MMORPG that would be ONE. No, instead of being realistic, the same fans (just different names, same sad song) will blindly try and stretch the technical meaning of words to try and "win".
CoE Kickstarter is clearly P2W. Own it and move on. But some advice, don't take criticism of "your game" so personally. It's probably not healthy. No I'm not a mental health expert but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Are you kidding me? I'm the biggest pain in the ass the SoL guys have seen. I haven't spent a cent on the game so you might want to actually check what you are saying before you talk nonsense again. I believe in challenging the developers and keeping them honest. I don't think "my game" is special and will magically avoid all the pitfalls of those that came before.
You can certainly disagree with me, but to claim I'm not totally consistent is just utterly foolish on your part.
PS: Same with the PFO guys, the Greedmonger guys and the Mortal Online guys. I call it like I see it.
LMAO hubris...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
CoE Kickstarter is clearly P2W. Own it and move on.
Correction it clearly falls under what you consider to be P2W.... I'm more of a literalist on these kinds of matters, I don't really agree with arbitrary usage which is what it seems to be in this case.
We haven't even seen the effect this will have yet. That's what makes it arbitrary.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Ok, here we go, let me try to define P2W by your terms Slapshot. P2W stands for buying an advantage for RL money, no matter how small or insignificant the advantage is, no matter how expensive. A game with a cash shop selling ONLY a 0,5% increased XP gain for a whopping 1500 dollars is P2W right? So is a game ONLY selling cosmetics because one Roleplayer could win from the other Roleplayer by having his barbarian dressed up in a fancier fish suit? An extra stash tab in PoE is P2W because you don't have to sell that much gear? A new voice over in DOTA is P2W because variety keeps you more focussed?
There are P2W games out there, real ones. Ones where whales dominate extreme, I loathe them. But by your definition everything purchasable in a game store is P2W. I've got bad news for you mate, MMO=P2W by your definition, they ALL have a cash shop. Ohh wait, Ryzom doesn't, and it has no box price, and a massive free trial, and it just launched on Steam and is actually a damn good game although pretty old. Have fun over there, you are trying to enjoy the wrong genre, or very determined to focus on the wrong instead of the right. It is not calling it like you see it, it is blindly whining, ignoring any and all counter arguments that are presented to you.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
This is a waste of time .... I believe in Soul Bound and I believe they will make a good sand box MMORPG because kickstart will succeed left only 260k and 25 days .
If they had to sell King title you cry so much I am glad they did so I am glad there are people that can pledge so much and support development of the game.
Also I will be glad to role play and make contract with these King, Barons ,players and become their Guard. And slowly make some saving and become a noble too .....
Thanks to every one who bought those Pay 2 Win Tiers you are pushing CoE development forward and that is great and I'm not sarcastic !!!!!
Honest point of view of a Coe fanboi who doesn't suffer from delusional self importance.
This isn't a MOBA or a FPS where you can win. Shouldn't the question be will you need to pay more than someone else to enjoy this game?
That's what gets lost in all of these types of conversations. To me this concept wouldn't be much different than someone being given the ability to build a city in SWG with mayoral rights 3 months before release. It wouldn't have made a damn bit of difference to the overall integrity of the game (at least in a negative manner). In many ways it would have helped make the early days a bit less drudging, as there would have been more infrastructure early on. Which the game would have benefited from IMO..
But hey it's pay to win, game is ruined... Can't have anyone getting theirs before I get mine..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Using cash to gain an advantage is P2W. That's the definition of it...
It has nothing to do with the possibility of losing that advantage.
Yes if you're only interested in applying a label with a stigma the nature of that "advantage" is unimportant, yet if you want to understand how the advantage works, as well as know what kind of impact it might have. That would be an important factor, no?
No, actually it wouldn't.
That would merely being an argument of the degree to which it was P2W, not whether it was or not.
Do you know what is a pay to win saga of lucimia pre-orders that is some damn fishy Pay 2 win right there ....Am I right slap? Did you get your Starter Relic Weapon, Starter Relic Boots or a free tax apartment a starter mount or pack mule.??? Damn such a bias attitude I fell bad for you pal ....
Are you kidding me? I'm the biggest pain in the ass the SoL guys have seen. I haven't spent a cent on the game so you might want to actually check what you are saying before you talk nonsense again. I believe in challenging the developers and keeping them honest. I don't think "my game" is special and will magically avoid all the pitfalls of those that came before.
You can certainly disagree with me, but to claim I'm not totally consistent is just utterly foolish on your part.
PS: Same with the PFO guys, the Greedmonger guys and the Mortal Online guys. I call it like I see it.
Well your sight sucks pretty badly. You decided what your opinion was based on a weak understanding of how the game is setup and even though it's been explained to you multiple times why you're mistaken, you refuse to see it. The problem is between your ears not with the game.
It's funny how often history repeats itself. Substitute SedrynTyros with another name from another game. All rose colored glasses, all attacking people who dare to challenge "their game". The problem is that you folks take criticism of "your game" as a personal attack and then respond similarly.
How many million dollar Kickstarter MMORPGs have successfully funded and successfully launched? Oh that's right, NONE. If we want to be really generous and say Elite is an MMORPG that would be ONE. No, instead of being realistic, the same fans (just different names, same sad song) will blindly try and stretch the technical meaning of words to try and "win".
CoE Kickstarter is clearly P2W. Own it and move on. But some advice, don't take criticism of "your game" so personally. It's probably not healthy. No I'm not a mental health expert but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express.
It's not about me taking it personally, (long diatribe belittling person he disagrees with)
Sure it isn't
I've had this discussion countless times in countless games. Just the names change. I know how this movie ends.
Have fun with your 3 month headstart!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Using cash to gain an advantage is P2W. That's the definition of it...
It has nothing to do with the possibility of losing that advantage.
Yes if you're only interested in applying a label with a stigma the nature of that "advantage" is unimportant, yet if you want to understand how the advantage works, as well as know what kind of impact it might have. That would be an important factor, no?
No, actually it wouldn't.
That would merely being an argument of the degree to which it was P2W, not whether it was or not.
Do you know what is a pay to win saga of lucimia pre-orders that is some damn fishy Pay 2 win right there ....Am I right slap? Did you get your Starter Relic Weapon, Starter Relic Boots or a free tax apartment a starter mount or pack mule.??? Damn such a bias attitude I fell bad for you pal ....
Are you kidding me? I'm the biggest pain in the ass the SoL guys have seen. I haven't spent a cent on the game so you might want to actually check what you are saying before you talk nonsense again. I believe in challenging the developers and keeping them honest. I don't think "my game" is special and will magically avoid all the pitfalls of those that came before.
You can certainly disagree with me, but to claim I'm not totally consistent is just utterly foolish on your part.
PS: Same with the PFO guys, the Greedmonger guys and the Mortal Online guys. I call it like I see it.
Well your sight sucks pretty badly. You decided what your opinion was based on a weak understanding of how the game is setup and even though it's been explained to you multiple times why you're mistaken, you refuse to see it. The problem is between your ears not with the game.
It's funny how often history repeats itself. Substitute SedrynTyros with another name from another game. All rose colored glasses, all attacking people who dare to challenge "their game". The problem is that you folks take criticism of "your game" as a personal attack and then respond similarly.
How many million dollar Kickstarter MMORPGs have successfully funded and successfully launched? Oh that's right, NONE. If we want to be really generous and say Elite is an MMORPG that would be ONE. No, instead of being realistic, the same fans (just different names, same sad song) will blindly try and stretch the technical meaning of words to try and "win".
CoE Kickstarter is clearly P2W. Own it and move on. But some advice, don't take criticism of "your game" so personally. It's probably not healthy. No I'm not a mental health expert but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express.
An mmorpg Massive multiple online role playing game Elite dangerous is massive, is a multi player, is online, you role play a starship captain, it's a game. Yep it's an mmorpg no being generous.
Therefore you sir have proven you know very little about mmorpg's.
So yeah, technically any game could be considered Pay2Win depending on your definition. The definition of Pay2Win I chose to go by is, can one player gain a competitive advantage over another player simply by paying more real life money.
Classic MMO's (box fee and monthly subscription) are not Pay2Win, IMHO, because every player must pay equally the same amount to play the game. With the monthly subscription model, a player cannot pay the game studio more money than another player in order to gain an advantage in-game.
So yes, CoE is Pay2Win at least in terms of their fund raising rewards. However, Pay2Win in itself isn't necessarily always bad. The real question becomes to what extent is it Pay 2 Win?
Is it just P2W in the stuff that we know from Kickstarter, or will it include a cash shop where you can buy in-game items and rare resources like ArcheAge? I am fine with the former. Not with the latter.
I would like to ask a favour of all the CoE community. From now and onwards let's ignore slapshot and Company who constantly slag off CoE and have decent conversations between ourselves and new member to this game / dorm
As far as I have seen Slapshot has only pointed out that some of the backer pledges are p2w; don't understand what all the angst is about since he is clearly correct. Any major publisher would be crucified by the media if they sold perks like this for a game that may or may not be finished some time in the future.
Comments
Therefore it's pointless arguing with him. In fact as was pointed out to me arguing with him diminishes your input and makes our community seem toxic when it's not.
I would like to ask a favour of all the CoE community. From now and onwards let's ignore slapshot and Company who constantly slag off CoE and have decent conversations between ourselves and new member to this game / dorm
I just firmly believe that diehards who create unrealistic expectations for a game set the game up for failure. I mean, when someone has "SPREAD THE WORD OF COE!" as their signature... it kind of signifies something beyond normal fandom.
Even the fans cannot agree on the P2W question. Some justify it as a reward for early backing, some make a silly argument based around the definition of winning. Believe me, if I do the Bloodlines Pledges I will squeeze out every last ounce of advantage the 3 months gives me and be ready for the plebs.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Why? Because the nature of a game makes a difference to many on how advantages and purchases effect the playing field. That doesn't make them toxic, that doesn't hurt a game, that's just people having different outlooks, nothing less, nothing more.
To some a label is meaningless without context, to some a label alone means everything.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
However I can also see why this isn't as big of a problem as it is in other games. In other games, you keep your levels, you keep your armor, you keep your mounts. If you buy a plus 6 sword of awesomeness. It's yours for all time. You now win because you have that sword and noone can take it from you.
While yes you get armor, this can be lost if you happen upon some band of merry men who decided they liked your shield for their wall, but didn't like your face.
As a king you are at much higher risk of losing that title if you go to war or being killed as king with no heir.
Skills if you commit crimes (where the the advantage really matters to others) deteriorate in jail so you can lose those as well.
The only lasting advantage that can't be taken away by some game mechanic is your own knowledge of the game, which is determined more by your learning ability than the game itself.
We also have to do one final thing, equate what you are getting to how it helps you in-game. If getting that piece of equipment makes it so you can't be taken down. Then yes, it's pay to win. However if someone can still take you down 1 vs 1. It really isn't in my opinion as all you did was buy that armor with a different currency, from which I can use in-game currency to get something just as good.
If something doesn't get an unfair advantage to the point I can't win no matter what I do then I equate that with Pay 2 Win. If however I can use my skills, my friends, and equip apporiate armor and beat you. Then I don't.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Did you get your Starter Relic Weapon, Starter Relic Boots or a free tax apartment a starter mount or pack mule.???
Damn such a bias attitude I fell bad for you pal ....
In the end someone always has such a disadvantage in a persistent on-line game. Especially in sandboxes, PVP focused or not. Not to mention there are plenty of folks like myself who wait until the dust settles before buying games in the first place, that's almost always 3 or more months post release.
So sure some people get to have a nice head-start, that doesn't mean the game is ruined outright, nor does it mean that will be detrimental to those coming in post 3 months. To me it doesn't mean much at all TBH, outside of some folks paid for a head-start.
IF the game is worth a damn that won't matter in the least bit to me. It would only matter if it's some instant I win button going forward, which all signs point to that not being the case.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You can certainly disagree with me, but to claim I'm not totally consistent is just utterly foolish on your part.
PS: Same with the PFO guys, the Greedmonger guys and the Mortal Online guys. I call it like I see it.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
How many million dollar Kickstarter MMORPGs have successfully funded and successfully launched? Oh that's right, NONE. If we want to be really generous and say Elite is an MMORPG that would be ONE. No, instead of being realistic, the same fans (just different names, same sad song) will blindly try and stretch the technical meaning of words to try and "win".
CoE Kickstarter is clearly P2W. Own it and move on. But some advice, don't take criticism of "your game" so personally. It's probably not healthy. No I'm not a mental health expert but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
We haven't even seen the effect this will have yet. That's what makes it arbitrary.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
There are P2W games out there, real ones. Ones where whales dominate extreme, I loathe them. But by your definition everything purchasable in a game store is P2W. I've got bad news for you mate, MMO=P2W by your definition, they ALL have a cash shop. Ohh wait, Ryzom doesn't, and it has no box price, and a massive free trial, and it just launched on Steam and is actually a damn good game although pretty old. Have fun over there, you are trying to enjoy the wrong genre, or very determined to focus on the wrong instead of the right. It is not calling it like you see it, it is blindly whining, ignoring any and all counter arguments that are presented to you.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
because kickstart will succeed left only 260k and 25 days .
If they had to sell King title you cry so much I am glad they did so I am glad there are people that can pledge so much and support development of the game.
Also I will be glad to role play and make contract with these King, Barons ,players and become their Guard. And slowly make some saving and become a noble too .....
Thanks to every one who bought those Pay 2 Win Tiers you are pushing CoE development forward and that is great and I'm not sarcastic !!!!!
Honest point of view of a Coe fanboi who doesn't suffer from delusional self importance.
But hey it's pay to win, game is ruined... Can't have anyone getting theirs before I get mine..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I've had this discussion countless times in countless games. Just the names change. I know how this movie ends.
Have fun with your 3 month headstart!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Massive multiple online role playing game
Elite dangerous is massive, is a multi player, is online, you role play a starship captain, it's a game.
Yep it's an mmorpg no being generous.
Therefore you sir have proven you know very little about mmorpg's.
Classic MMO's (box fee and monthly subscription) are not Pay2Win, IMHO, because every player must pay equally the same amount to play the game. With the monthly subscription model, a player cannot pay the game studio more money than another player in order to gain an advantage in-game.
So yes, CoE is Pay2Win at least in terms of their fund raising rewards. However, Pay2Win in itself isn't necessarily always bad. The real question becomes to what extent is it Pay 2 Win?
Is it just P2W in the stuff that we know from Kickstarter, or will it include a cash shop where you can buy in-game items and rare resources like ArcheAge? I am fine with the former. Not with the latter.