Therefore I am going to take all he says with a pinch of salt. Especially going from the rough calculations I made (and i mean very rough)and the fact he or she is treating CoE as a cookie cutter mmorpg
Dude, no offense but you used $15 an hour as the basis for your loaded wage rates for a development team...
Ummm... that's just not realistic. that's what folks that flip burgers in McDonalds want...
I was going on the tram earning / taking minimum wages to see the game finished. Also said an average wage.
I also took an average wage in the uk £10 and added 50% on to convert it to usbut since I am eru I didn't know the average wage.
You might appreciate this link to a thorough game developer salary survey from 2012. It has data according to job position, work experience, place of living and also provides information on indie developers.
Therefore I am going to take all he says with a pinch of salt. Especially going from the rough calculations I made (and i mean very rough)and the fact he or she is treating CoE as a cookie cutter mmorpg
Dude, no offense but you used $15 an hour as the basis for your loaded wage rates for a development team...
Ummm... that's just not realistic. that's what folks that flip burgers in McDonalds want...
I was going on the tram earning / taking minimum wages to see the game finished. Also said an average wage.
I also took an average wage in the uk £10 and added 50% on to convert it to usbut since I am eru I didn't know the average wage.
I do get it what you linked me is = to £15 per hour based off a 40 hour week.
Now consider what I said that I was presuming that the CoE team are working off the fact they really want to make the game and therefore would be taking a lower wage and I am not too far off. Also their maybe some sort of share/profit related deal with the initial programmers, there is a lot of variables.
But the simple fact is based on what you linked I am about 2-5 pound an hour off. Not that great
Therefore I am going to take all he says with a pinch of salt. Especially going from the rough calculations I made (and i mean very rough)and the fact he or she is treating CoE as a cookie cutter mmorpg
Dude, no offense but you used $15 an hour as the basis for your loaded wage rates for a development team...
Ummm... that's just not realistic. that's what folks that flip burgers in McDonalds want...
I was going on the tram earning / taking minimum wages to see the game finished. Also said an average wage.
I also took an average wage in the uk £10 and added 50% on to convert it to usbut since I am eru I didn't know the average wage.
That's assuming they don't already have personal savings to live on, as well as whether they need or want that much to keep working. It's all about how much they're willing to lose/risk to see this game to completion. You are straight out assuming these people are demanding a "competitive" industry wage to continue on.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
There are still going to be other things to worry about. Some employees might decide to leave and search for more lucrative jobs or get more lucrative offers from other companies. This was the case with Cliff Shonewill, the main art/model artist working on Revival. He was really talented and left to work in some other company. It's also possible that a big wealthy company might attempt to buy & bury CoE. This happened to one really promising game called Project Offset in the past. Intel bought and buried it. Another cool game I used to play, a card game called Warstorm, was taken over by Zynga and relaunched in a radically simplified form. I guess the risk of anything like this happening is small but it is not zero.
Besides I am sure I saw somewhere that Caspian
had said their current costs are 40k a month. That means the 90k is 22
months worth of expenditure without expanding the team
If I remember correctly, he said that they had started spending 50k
every month after beginning to expand the team earlier in 2016.
I predicted that CoE would reach their funding target "without breaking a sweat". Seems I was right.
Congrats to the CoE team !
Now they just need to build a solid fund raising webpage and come up with a list of ongoing incentives. They still have another $19M or so to raise if they want to produce a quality MMO. But I'm sure they're working on that already...
Which quality MMO that was made for 20 mil you have in mind?
Is it possible that they have other funding streams lined up or in reserve? Are they hoping to get a publisher to pick them up? I didn't read the Treatise on how CoE plans to be built and get funded, but I hope they are not relying on "Elven Magic," or "Money Fairies," etc.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
Hey just remember I was only guessing. Even at industry competitive wages they have enough money to get to middle of next year, then add in the extra areas of revenue that they will look at....
I predicted that CoE would reach their funding target "without breaking a sweat". Seems I was right.
Congrats to the CoE team !
Now they just need to build a solid fund raising webpage and come up with a list of ongoing incentives. They still have another $19M or so to raise if they want to produce a quality MMO. But I'm sure they're working on that already...
Which quality MMO that was made for 20 mil you have in mind?
Yeh, much more ofc. Eso was around 200. Mil. Dont got high hopes but that way it only can be better when released xd
So, what's next? Will they load up on stretch goals, which significantly increase development time, approved by .01% of the playerbase (the 10 who gave over 1000), split the game into 2 games (COE arena! rawr!) and start advertising DLC in two months? Cool story, but I heard it somewhere before...
Is it possible that they have other funding streams lined up or in reserve? Are they hoping to get a publisher to pick them up? I didn't read the Treatise on how CoE plans to be built and get funded, but I hope they are not relying on "Elven Magic," or "Money Fairies," etc.
Some possible sources of revenue that immediately come to mind.
* Collecting more crowdfunding through a system integrated into CoE website.
* Doing a second crowdfunding campaign later.
* Selling some content they make for CoE to other developers through UE marketplace or other channels.
* Working as subcontractors for other companies or projects to get additional funding.
* Getting a UE4 grant from Epic Games.
* Getting a grant from some organisation or academic institution for developing some innovative technology the same way how Darkfall got some grants in Europe.
* Creating small independent spin-off games for PC, Mac or mobile devices using content that they make for crafting mini-games intended for CoE.
* Creating and monetizing something else connected to CoE, such as physical or virtual collectible cards.
* Placing advertisements on their website like mmorpg.com do here.
* Searching for investors in real life.
* Using indiegogo or other resources to attract investors online.
Is it possible that they have other funding streams lined up or in reserve? Are they hoping to get a publisher to pick them up? I didn't read the Treatise on how CoE plans to be built and get funded, but I hope they are not relying on "Elven Magic," or "Money Fairies," etc.
Some possible sources of revenue that immediately come to mind.
* Collecting more crowdfunding through a system integrated into CoE website.
* Doing a second crowdfunding campaign later.
* Selling some content they make for CoE to other developers through UE marketplace or other channels.
* Working as subcontractors for other companies or projects to get additional funding.
* Getting a UE4 grant from Epic Games.
* Getting a grant from some organisation or academic institution for developing some innovative technology the same way how Darkfall got some grants in Europe.
* Creating small independent spin-off games for PC, Mac or mobile devices using content that they make for crafting mini-games intended for CoE.
* Creating and monetizing something else connected to CoE, such as physical or virtual collectible cards.
* Placing advertisements on their website like mmorpg.com do here.
* Searching for investors in real life.
* Using indiegogo or other resources to attract investors online.
* Offering CoE to a publisher.
What do you mean by investers in real life what is the opposite of it?
My English is bad soo I prob missunderstand it haha
So, what's next? Will they load up on stretch goals, which significantly increase development time, approved by .01% of the playerbase (the 10 who gave over 1000), split the game into 2 games (COE arena! rawr!) and start advertising DLC in two months? Cool story, but I heard it somewhere before...
It shouldn't surprise anyone that the first uses of kickstarter for games were honey pots of abuse. I'm sure an hour after the first bike was invented someone was jumping off it and rolling it into trash cans.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
I predicted that CoE would reach their funding target "without breaking a sweat". Seems I was right.
Congrats to the CoE team !
Now they just need to build a solid fund raising webpage and come up with a list of ongoing incentives. They still have another $19M or so to raise if they want to produce a quality MMO. But I'm sure they're working on that already...
Which quality MMO that was made for 20 mil you have in mind?
Yeh, much more ofc. Eso was around 200. Mil. Dont got high hopes but that way it only can be better when released xd
200 mil is a rumor AFAIK. Zenimax denied that and with no official number it is a wild guess how much that themepark cost.
Honestly, from my experience, it takes one talented guy that has a dream and will work 20hrs a day to make a quality product for minimal pay. With that in mind, 900k could be more than enough.
I predicted that CoE would reach their funding target "without breaking a sweat". Seems I was right.
Congrats to the CoE team !
Now they just need to build a solid fund raising webpage and come up with a list of ongoing incentives. They still have another $19M or so to raise if they want to produce a quality MMO. But I'm sure they're working on that already...
Which quality MMO that was made for 20 mil you have in mind?
Yeh, much more ofc. Eso was around 200. Mil. Dont got high hopes but that way it only can be better when released xd
200 mil is a rumor AFAIK. Zenimax denied that and with no official number it is a wild guess how much that themepark cost.
Honestly, from my experience, it takes one talented guy that has a dream and will work 20hrs a day to make a quality product for minimal pay. With that in mind, 900k could be more than enough.
It's not just desire...
.. it's a function of time and money. The problem is that their launch schedule seems ridiculously aggressive with Early Entry launch starting in just 16 months. When you look at the feature set promised, and the fact that they describe themselves as in "pre-production" currently, that seems like a fantasy.
BUT, we will see. They got their funding goal which I was skeptical of, so that gains them the ability to make these claims. We will see next year. Until then it's just wild guessing.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Swtor number of $200M has floated around since the day of ealouse, which was fake. People repeated the numbers of $200M for eso until they believed it was true.
Cost for the secret world were somewhere between $30M-$40M. The investor budget for Rift was $100M with development cost for the released version in the region of $50M-$60M. Costs for project that had extremely rocky development like firefall gets up to somewhere around $100M. When people in the business speak of mmorpg's the talk is that you shouldn't try make an mmorpg if you don't have $50M to waste.
You can certainly make mmorpg's for less but cuts has to be made somewhere. You get cut and paste content, worse animations, worse aesthetics, worse graphical details, no cut-scenes, no voice-over, less innovative systems, less promotion. Most important, you can't have delays during development, it kills the budget for games.
While chronicles of elyria will make cuts in the quality for a lot of things they still have a huge challenge with integrating all the complex and innovative systems without suffering from massive delays. If they can do it properly they have a shot at finishing the game within reasonable time, if they fail its going to sink the project.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
Swtor number of $200M has floated around since the day of ealouse, which was fake. People repeated the numbers of $200M for eso until they believed it was true.
Cost for the secret world were somewhere between $30M-$40M. The investor budget for Rift was $100M with development cost for the released version in the region of $50M-$60M. Costs for project that had extremely rocky development like firefall gets up to somewhere around $100M. When people in the business speak of mmorpg's the talk is that you shouldn't try make an mmorpg if you don't have $50M to waste.
You can certainly make mmorpg's for less but cuts has to be made somewhere. You get cut and paste content, worse animations, worse aesthetics, worse graphical details, no cut-scenes, no voice-over, less innovative systems, less promotion. Most important, you can't have delays during development, it kills the budget for games.
While chronicles of elyria will make cuts in the quality for a lot of things they still have a huge challenge with integrating all the complex and innovative systems without suffering from massive delays. If they can do it properly they have a shot at finishing the game within reasonable time, if they fail its going to sink the project.
What makes those comparisons moot is they're games that are all about scripted content with high production value (cut scenes, complicated phasing, large amounts of Story/VO production, actors, etc..etc..etc..) this type of stuff is extremely time consuming, it's also expensive...... COE doesn't need that to be successful at what it's trying to achieve.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Swtor number of $200M has floated around since the day of ealouse, which was fake. People repeated the numbers of $200M for eso until they believed it was true.
Cost for the secret world were somewhere between $30M-$40M. The investor budget for Rift was $100M with development cost for the released version in the region of $50M-$60M. Costs for project that had extremely rocky development like firefall gets up to somewhere around $100M. When people in the business speak of mmorpg's the talk is that you shouldn't try make an mmorpg if you don't have $50M to waste.
You can certainly make mmorpg's for less but cuts has to be made somewhere. You get cut and paste content, worse animations, worse aesthetics, worse graphical details, no cut-scenes, no voice-over, less innovative systems, less promotion. Most important, you can't have delays during development, it kills the budget for games.
While chronicles of elyria will make cuts in the quality for a lot of things they still have a huge challenge with integrating all the complex and innovative systems without suffering from massive delays. If they can do it properly they have a shot at finishing the game within reasonable time, if they fail its going to sink the project.
Much of AAA game costs go on marketing. I wonder how much that is true for MMORPGs also. Is it naive to assume crowd-funded MMORPGs would spend less heavily on that?
I predicted that CoE would reach their funding target "without breaking a sweat". Seems I was right.
Congrats to the CoE team !
Now they just need to build a solid fund raising webpage and come up with a list of ongoing incentives. They still have another $19M or so to raise if they want to produce a quality MMO. But I'm sure they're working on that already...
Which quality MMO that was made for 20 mil you have in mind?
Yeh, much more ofc. Eso was around 200. Mil. Dont got high hopes but that way it only can be better when released xd
200 mil is a rumor AFAIK. Zenimax denied that and with no official number it is a wild guess how much that themepark cost.
Honestly, from my experience, it takes one talented guy that has a dream and will work 20hrs a day to make a quality product for minimal pay. With that in mind, 900k could be more than enough.
It's not just desire...
.. it's a function of time and money. The problem is that their launch schedule seems ridiculously aggressive with Early Entry launch starting in just 16 months. When you look at the feature set promised, and the fact that they describe themselves as in "pre-production" currently, that seems like a fantasy.
BUT, we will see. They got their funding goal which I was skeptical of, so that gains them the ability to make these claims. We will see next year. Until then it's just wild guessing.
My point is - we don't know how talented and motivated these guys are. I can have 5 programmers scratching their head for 5 weeks to come up with something that somebody else can and will do in less than one day. Cut the fat, think outside the box and deliver.
Swtor number of $200M has floated around since the day of ealouse, which was fake. People repeated the numbers of $200M for eso until they believed it was true.
Cost for the secret world were somewhere between $30M-$40M. The investor budget for Rift was $100M with development cost for the released version in the region of $50M-$60M. Costs for project that had extremely rocky development like firefall gets up to somewhere around $100M. When people in the business speak of mmorpg's the talk is that you shouldn't try make an mmorpg if you don't have $50M to waste.
You can certainly make mmorpg's for less but cuts has to be made somewhere. You get cut and paste content, worse animations, worse aesthetics, worse graphical details, no cut-scenes, no voice-over, less innovative systems, less promotion. Most important, you can't have delays during development, it kills the budget for games.
While chronicles of elyria will make cuts in the quality for a lot of things they still have a huge challenge with integrating all the complex and innovative systems without suffering from massive delays. If they can do it properly they have a shot at finishing the game within reasonable time, if they fail its going to sink the project.
What makes those comparisons moot is they're games that are all about scripted content with high production value (cut scenes, complicated phasing, large amounts of Story/VO production, actors, etc..etc..etc..) this type of stuff is extremely time consuming, it's also expensive...... COE doesn't need that to be successful at what it's trying to achieve.
Rift barely had those things, the most costly system it had was probably the rifts. Chronicles of elyria promises far more innovative systems than what rift ever had.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
Rift barely had those things, the most costly system it had was probably the rifts. Chronicles of elyria promises far more innovative systems than what rift ever had.
Exactly. All of that innovation takes time to implement.
Look guys we can all argue our points on the cost and stuff. Why don't we all agree we disagree and move on with another topic.
I think everyone wants to see the game get made its just some are more fanatical than others about it. (I'm one of the more fanatical if you didn't know
Comments
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
* more info, screenshots and videos here
I do get it what you linked me is = to £15 per hour based off a 40 hour week.
Now consider what I said that I was presuming that the CoE team are working off the fact they really want to make the game and therefore would be taking a lower wage and I am not too far off.
Also their maybe some sort of share/profit related deal with the initial programmers, there is a lot of variables.
But the simple fact is based on what you linked I am about 2-5 pound an hour off. Not that great
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If I remember correctly, he said that they had started spending 50k every month after beginning to expand the team earlier in 2016.
* more info, screenshots and videos here
Replace the removed content then just improve the current stuff to ensure all are done with quality
Some possible sources of revenue that immediately come to mind.
* Collecting more crowdfunding through a system integrated into CoE website.
* Doing a second crowdfunding campaign later.
* Selling some content they make for CoE to other developers through UE marketplace or other channels.
* Working as subcontractors for other companies or projects to get additional funding.
* Getting a UE4 grant from Epic Games.
* Getting a grant from some organisation or academic institution for developing some innovative technology the same way how Darkfall got some grants in Europe.
* Creating small independent spin-off games for PC, Mac or mobile devices using content that they make for crafting mini-games intended for CoE.
* Creating and monetizing something else connected to CoE, such as physical or virtual collectible cards.
* Placing advertisements on their website like mmorpg.com do here.
* Searching for investors in real life.
* Using indiegogo or other resources to attract investors online.
* Offering CoE to a publisher.
* more info, screenshots and videos here
My English is bad soo I prob missunderstand it haha
Honestly, from my experience, it takes one talented guy that has a dream and will work 20hrs a day to make a quality product for minimal pay. With that in mind, 900k could be more than enough.
.. it's a function of time and money. The problem is that their launch schedule seems ridiculously aggressive with Early Entry launch starting in just 16 months. When you look at the feature set promised, and the fact that they describe themselves as in "pre-production" currently, that seems like a fantasy.
BUT, we will see. They got their funding goal which I was skeptical of, so that gains them the ability to make these claims. We will see next year. Until then it's just wild guessing.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Cost for the secret world were somewhere between $30M-$40M. The investor budget for Rift was $100M with development cost for the released version in the region of $50M-$60M. Costs for project that had extremely rocky development like firefall gets up to somewhere around $100M. When people in the business speak of mmorpg's the talk is that you shouldn't try make an mmorpg if you don't have $50M to waste.
You can certainly make mmorpg's for less but cuts has to be made somewhere. You get cut and paste content, worse animations, worse aesthetics, worse graphical details, no cut-scenes, no voice-over, less innovative systems, less promotion. Most important, you can't have delays during development, it kills the budget for games.
While chronicles of elyria will make cuts in the quality for a lot of things they still have a huge challenge with integrating all the complex and innovative systems without suffering from massive delays. If they can do it properly they have a shot at finishing the game within reasonable time, if they fail its going to sink the project.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
All of that innovation takes time to implement.
I think everyone wants to see the game get made its just some are more fanatical than others about it. (I'm one of the more fanatical if you didn't know