It upsets me so much to see this happening to Wildstar. It had such huge potential, had the developers at Carbine not been such arrogant idiots. I'll get into an example of that in a second (as I do with every post about Wildstar) because it sums up everything wrong from a development direction perspective from personal experience.
But the game, as a whole, was great. I loved the aesthetics, combat, classes, maps, HOUSING!!, dungeons, humor, STORY! For once I got into the story... i loved the combat, it was so engaging. The housing system is amazeballs. The game had such potential to be something great...probably as big as GW2 at least had it launched later with its launch bugs squashed and ditched the hardcore mentality.
Which brings me to my example of why I hate the developers for destroying a great game:
Before the game launched, I was a frequent forum-goer on wildstar-central.com. In the weeks and months prior to the release, I was in frequent opposition to its entire hardcore mentality of attunements for raids, but more so on the raid sizes. I think it was to me 20 and 40 man raid sizes.
I kept telling people over and over on these forums, "40 man is too large, 20 man is too large. Look at WoW, arguably the biggest baddie in the raid world for MMOs, ever...and they realize that when only ~1-3% of your playerbase raids and most guilds can only field enough for a 10 man, its time for a change in mentality". The players didn't listen, the developers didn't listen.
I kept telling the developers, who actually visited these forums and posted representing Carbine, that 20/40 was too large. Guilds won't be able to field that many.
I painted a very stark very real picture... Back when 40 man raids were alive and well in WoW, the average raider was probably 18-30 years old...late highschool to college, to young adult before starting a family. Those are, for the most part, the only people that experienced large scale raids. There are exceptions, I accept that, but Id bet my paycheck that 18-30 makes up most of the raid population back in those days at least (not today...today everyone can raid in WoW).
10 years since then, those raiders are now 28-40 years old, starting families or knee-deep in their families and careers with little time or desire to raid 40 man raids...little desire to deal with 39 other personalities and egos. Little time or desire to make at least 39 other friends to reliably get a group together.
I was mocked by the community for that analysis, and by a Carbine developer. He literally laughed me out of the conversation and pretty much told me to 'pucker up buttercup'. A developer... when I chastised him for treating a potential customer that way, the community backed him up saying it was refreshing for a dev to be real (to that, I can understand). Well, here we are 2-3 years later and the game is all but dead. Why?
Because the people in the community defending the 20/40 man raid comps were either looking back on those days with rose-tinted glasses, or never experienced it in the first place. If you are a 20 year old supporting the 40 man wild star raid idea, you were around 10 years old when WoW had 40 mans. You didn't run them. The only people that did were people like myself that know what a PAIN it was to get a raid off the ground with 40 people. And people like me, the ones that experienced it during that time, don't have the time, patience, or desire to deal with 39 egos playing a video game anymore. And nobody wanted to listen to our experience. It was a truth that nobody wanted to hear.
Before the game launched, I was a frequent forum-goer on wildstar-central.com. In the weeks and months prior to the release, I was in frequent opposition to its entire hardcore mentality of attunements for raids, but more so on the raid sizes. I think it was to me 20 and 40 man raid sizes.
I kept telling people over and over on these forums, "40 man is too large, 20 man is too large. Look at WoW, arguably the biggest baddie in the raid world for MMOs, ever...and they realize that when only ~1-3% of your playerbase raids and most guilds can only field enough for a 10 man, its time for a change in mentality". The players didn't listen, the developers didn't listen.
I kept telling the developers, who actually visited these forums and posted representing Carbine, that 20/40 was too large. Guilds won't be able to field that many.
I will always thank Carbine for creating Genetic Archive raid and my guild for allowing me experience it... one of the best raiding experiences i've had.
It wasn't a 1 week clear then throwaway raid... it took a long time to clear, even as a server/faction first guild we was.
I don't agree on 20man being to too large tho... its the perfect size for a raid and 10 is too small (imo- everyone has their own). 40 man was way too big tho... even as awesome as it sounded. Guild merges never go well and have never experienced one successfully done. Wildstar was no exception and that was where my guild stopped playing Wildstar to move onto the next raiding experience.
I also don't think 10man raids would have helped any... majority of the playerbase couldn't do the attunement process and quit because of it.
I went back at the F2P launch and was only able to play on and off for about a week... didn't seem much was added since i quit or to do as a casual solo player. The game was built for the raiding experience imo... and will always be remembered for that experience by the few who got to clear it.
It targeted and got the playerbase it wanted... that playerbase just isnt a mass market playerbase. Am i surprised a big publisher funded this? Definitely... no idea how they got that sale pitch past the investors, but im really glad they did. We likely wont see its kind again or for a very long time.
Yes, the raiding in this game is AMAZING! I didnt kill Avatus yet, but I really hope that we (my guild) will be able to clear DS before closing the gates. And I really dont understand why this big hate towards the game. Even if I am not raiding, I can get so much fun from the game: dungeons, housing, contracts, world bosses, leveling in the opposite fraction...
Wildstar is one of the best MMOs to not have become a success in the history of the genre.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Why would you expect Wildstar to release raids every 6 months or quarterly, when Blizzard can't even give content that fast for WoW? Considering that Bliz makes a lot more money than other MMORPG game devs, you'd think they'd at least give more content, but no.
So, what is wrong with just playing Lineage II? Or do you mean they should make better expansions for it?
They already had games like Warhammer Online and Age of Conan. Adult-oriented games probably cost more money and effort to keep the realism graphics up to date (they age terribly bad like Everquest 2 - although, I still like Eq2), and adults are usually to busy to play MMORPGs. Obviously, they are trying to cater to the children who have more time, and aren't busy raising kids/working all day/week long.
However, you have Blade and Soul, upcoming Star Citizen/Repopulation, Path of the Exile, Pantheon of the Fallen, Black Desert Online, and Lord of the Rings Online. There are many "adult-oriented" more realistic games out there!
If only SWToR and Star Trek Online were better...
So, what is wrong with just playing Lineage II? Or do you mean they should make better expansions for it?
They already had games like Warhammer Online and Age of Conan. Adult-oriented games probably cost more money and effort to keep the realism graphics up to date (they age terribly bad like Everquest 2 - although, I still like Eq2), and adults are usually to busy to play MMORPGs. Obviously, they are trying to cater to the children who have more time, and aren't busy raising kids/working all day/week long.
However, you have Blade and Soul, upcoming Star Citizen/Repopulation, Path of the Exile, Pantheon of the Fallen, Black Desert Online, and Lord of the Rings Online. There are many "adult-oriented" more realistic games out there!
If only SWToR and Star Trek Online were better...
I liked L2 but now I grew tired of it. The main reason is the huge class unbalances the game has. You are just forced to play mages-archers because all the rest suck.
The only reason i quit playing this game was the performance. I play all AA mmo's out there having 60fps and this one, i had to turn every single option down so i can play. I gave it one more try when it turned f2p but with no luck. I'm sure i wasn't the only one with this problem.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
FFXIV was a total failure but the rework to A realm Reborn was a surprise ... i have a feelin that Carbine has worked on something and will see it soon ( NC its a pretty bad company as we all known Aion was terrible in the 1st 2 years and they keep it alive .. look now at 5.0 also.. i think that NC its not tryin to shoot themselfs in the foot again as they did in the past )
Comments
But the game, as a whole, was great. I loved the aesthetics, combat, classes, maps, HOUSING!!, dungeons, humor, STORY! For once I got into the story... i loved the combat, it was so engaging. The housing system is amazeballs. The game had such potential to be something great...probably as big as GW2 at least had it launched later with its launch bugs squashed and ditched the hardcore mentality.
Which brings me to my example of why I hate the developers for destroying a great game:
Before the game launched, I was a frequent forum-goer on wildstar-central.com. In the weeks and months prior to the release, I was in frequent opposition to its entire hardcore mentality of attunements for raids, but more so on the raid sizes. I think it was to me 20 and 40 man raid sizes.
I kept telling people over and over on these forums, "40 man is too large, 20 man is too large. Look at WoW, arguably the biggest baddie in the raid world for MMOs, ever...and they realize that when only ~1-3% of your playerbase raids and most guilds can only field enough for a 10 man, its time for a change in mentality". The players didn't listen, the developers didn't listen.
I kept telling the developers, who actually visited these forums and posted representing Carbine, that 20/40 was too large. Guilds won't be able to field that many.
I painted a very stark very real picture... Back when 40 man raids were alive and well in WoW, the average raider was probably 18-30 years old...late highschool to college, to young adult before starting a family. Those are, for the most part, the only people that experienced large scale raids. There are exceptions, I accept that, but Id bet my paycheck that 18-30 makes up most of the raid population back in those days at least (not today...today everyone can raid in WoW).
10 years since then, those raiders are now 28-40 years old, starting families or knee-deep in their families and careers with little time or desire to raid 40 man raids...little desire to deal with 39 other personalities and egos. Little time or desire to make at least 39 other friends to reliably get a group together.
I was mocked by the community for that analysis, and by a Carbine developer. He literally laughed me out of the conversation and pretty much told me to 'pucker up buttercup'. A developer... when I chastised him for treating a potential customer that way, the community backed him up saying it was refreshing for a dev to be real (to that, I can understand). Well, here we are 2-3 years later and the game is all but dead. Why?
Because the people in the community defending the 20/40 man raid comps were either looking back on those days with rose-tinted glasses, or never experienced it in the first place. If you are a 20 year old supporting the 40 man wild star raid idea, you were around 10 years old when WoW had 40 mans. You didn't run them. The only people that did were people like myself that know what a PAIN it was to get a raid off the ground with 40 people. And people like me, the ones that experienced it during that time, don't have the time, patience, or desire to deal with 39 egos playing a video game anymore. And nobody wanted to listen to our experience. It was a truth that nobody wanted to hear.
Sorry for the wall of text.
It wasn't a 1 week clear then throwaway raid... it took a long time to clear, even as a server/faction first guild we was.
I don't agree on 20man being to too large tho... its the perfect size for a raid and 10 is too small (imo- everyone has their own). 40 man was way too big tho... even as awesome as it sounded. Guild merges never go well and have never experienced one successfully done. Wildstar was no exception and that was where my guild stopped playing Wildstar to move onto the next raiding experience.
I also don't think 10man raids would have helped any... majority of the playerbase couldn't do the attunement process and quit because of it.
I went back at the F2P launch and was only able to play on and off for about a week... didn't seem much was added since i quit or to do as a casual solo player. The game was built for the raiding experience imo... and will always be remembered for that experience by the few who got to clear it.
It targeted and got the playerbase it wanted... that playerbase just isnt a mass market playerbase. Am i surprised a big publisher funded this? Definitely... no idea how they got that sale pitch past the investors, but im really glad they did. We likely wont see its kind again or for a very long time.
New players can get a welcome package and old/returning players can also get a welcome back package and 7 days free subscription time! Just click here to use my referral invitation
And I really dont understand why this big hate towards the game. Even if I am not raiding, I can get so much fun from the game: dungeons, housing, contracts, world bosses, leveling in the opposite fraction...
Also it is yet another example of a game company that refused to listen to its players. This is why many of us have had to turn to Kickstsrter.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
He that lives upon Hope dies farting.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Full tower PC