Space Epic or Black Hole?

SBFord

Space Epic or Black Hole?

In theory, Star Citizen should have launched by now. After a successful Kickstarter in November 2012, raising over $2 million in crowdfunding, Cloud Imperium Games planned to have the spacefaring epic in our hands in just two years.

Read the full story here

Shaigh

People speak about 5-7 years of development because that's what it takes for big AAA mmorpg's, yet they keep saying release in 2017 and never speak about a release in 2019.

Viper482

Tried to get a refund from this scam but they refused. My problem is they are still asking for money selling ships that don't even exist in a pixel yet.

Warlyx

....even if its released it will be nothing of what fanboys wanted im afraid....it will be like watching a supernova ....fanbois crying , hate horde telling told u so...and the devs apologising while running away on their ferrari to their private islands full of naked women and drugs ! hahahaha

Berserksson

This is the biggest scam in gaming history. The cost of the content, is absolutely insane, and atrocious. Unethical doesn't even come close to defining these scammers.

Adjuvant1

Props to Mr. Harmer for the best show of intestinal fortitude, by a mmorpg.com staff member, on this project, so far. Welcome to the ranks of the troll circus, as the biased moderation likes to call us.

tenfootgoatman123

Shaigh said:

People speak about 5-7 years of development because that's what it takes for big AAA mmorpg's, yet they keep saying release in 2017 and never speak about a release in 2019.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was the early 2020's even .

goboygo

Here Ill just pull out the most important part of that article.

"Realistically, backing a crowdfunded game isn’t paying for early access. It’s donating money to a developer, with the hope that the investment will pay off in the form of a game that you enjoy playing. If you can’t afford to write that off, either fiscally or emotionally, then don’t back the project."

Adjuvant1

goboygo said:

Here Ill just pull out the most important part of that article.

"Realistically, backing a crowdfunded game isn’t paying for early access. It’s donating money to a developer, with the hope that the investment will pay off in the form of a game that you enjoy playing. If you can’t afford to write that off, either fiscally or emotionally, then don’t back the project."

The most important part of that article is "all of it".

Adjuvant1

MisterZebub said:

Adjuvant1 said:

goboygo said:

Here Ill just pull out the most important part of that article.

"Realistically, backing a crowdfunded game isn’t paying for early access. It’s donating money to a developer, with the hope that the investment will pay off in the form of a game that you enjoy playing. If you can’t afford to write that off, either fiscally or emotionally, then don’t back the project."

The most important part of that article is "all of it".

Not to denigrate Gareth's article in anyway, but what exactly is "important" about it? I find it a fine summation of the talking points both factions and all points in between have been discussing, at times rather loudly, on the SC forums, but it doesn't bring up a single idea that's new. For someone who hasn't been following the project its a great condensed jumping on point to see what the fuss is all about, but that's about it.

Because anything negative about this project is labeled "trolling", by forum participants and moderation here. I'm tired of the caustic dismissal, and any truth spoken about this shit show of a product earns my vote.

ceratop001

I know nobody wants to hear this but they probably need more money to make this game, and that is why development feels slow.

Adjuvant1

ceratop001 said:

I know nobody wants to hear this but they probably need more money to make this game, and that is why development feels slow.

Yeh, alot of people seem to feel this way, which is why it's so convenient they keep backers on an emotional leash via a "subscription to the development of Star Citizen!", in addition to their pledge package backing, to the tune of 20 bucks a month.

Horrendous abuse.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_costs

GrumpyHobbit

Adjuvant1 said:

Because anything negative about this project is labeled "trolling", by forum participants and moderation here. I'm tired of the caustic dismissal, and any truth spoken about this shit show of a product earns my vote.

Here is a thought....

Perhaps it isn't WHAT you are saying but HOW you are saying that is getting you into hot water. 

I mean, you just basically called the forum moderators biased and other members of the community 'caustically dismissive' you but have you ever stopped to wonder WHY you are getting bars and others are not?

In the same thread you are rude about the moderators apparent bias and then celebrate "Mr. Harmer for the best show of intestinal fortitude". Your apparent ability to maintain a reasonable point of view is about as firm as your ability to not break forum rule after forum rule and complain when you get warned to stop.

DXSins

MisterZebub said:

Adjuvant1 said:

goboygo said:

Here Ill just pull out the most important part of that article.

"Realistically, backing a crowdfunded game isn’t paying for early access. It’s donating money to a developer, with the hope that the investment will pay off in the form of a game that you enjoy playing. If you can’t afford to write that off, either fiscally or emotionally, then don’t back the project."

The most important part of that article is "all of it".

Not to denigrate Gareth's article in anyway, but what exactly is "important" about it? I find it a fine summation of the talking points both factions and all points in between have been discussing, at times rather loudly, on the SC forums, but it doesn't bring up a single idea that's new. For someone who hasn't been following the project its a great condensed jumping on point to see what the fuss is all about, but that's about it.

Does seem to gone a little quite around here lately... front page's Current Forum Activity isn't full of SC like it has been a lot.

As you said.. this is adding nothing new to discuss. Just an attempt to get the clicks back in on the contrivances around SC, because the usual posters have been slacking as of late (or have i just been blanking it out?).

ceratop001

Adjuvant1 said:

ceratop001 said:

I know nobody wants to hear this but they probably need more money to make this game, and that is why development feels slow.

Yeh, alot of people seem to feel this way, which is why it's so convenient they keep backers on an emotional leash via a "subscription to the development of Star Citizen!", in addition to their pledge package backing, to the tune of 20 bucks a month.

Horrendous abuse.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_costs

I'm not a backer so I have no emotional attachments to this game. I'm just trying to make sense of it based on what I read. If you do some comparisons with some other games like Star Wars, Elder scrolls, destiny etc, you can sort of sympathize with the process. Honestly I have no clue what's going on just trying to understand it.

Lobotomist

Luckily I used the time Derek Smart was bashing Star Citizen to ask for my refund. They were too afraid of bad rep at that time that they promptly gave it.

Soon after that they tightened and i hear not many people are lucky to get refund anymore.

So, good riddance SC

Erillion

When people talk about keeping an "iron grip on scope" it needs to be kept in mind that the last stretch goal was added in autumn of 2014 (and that was "Pets", which is something that already exists in vanilla CryEngine, so only needs minimum extra work). Most of the stretch goals in 2014 were ships, modular equipment and star systems that were most likely planned in anyway. Not exra major gameplay mechanics additions. There are quite a few infamous people that talk about ongoing scope creep w.r.t. launch day of Persistent Universe, even when facts show that this is not true.

It seems to me that the only part which has grown larger than planned is the part about procedural generation. The many CryTek engineers that moved over to form the new CIG Foundry 42 Frankfurt studio have worked on that system for quite some time and it seems destined for prominence in the project. Especially with No Mans Sky and Elite:Dangerous featuring successful implementations of procedural generation.

Personally i also got the impression that the addition of Erin Roberts (as Production Director) in tandem with Chris Roberts as Creative Director has improved the overall quality and efficiency of the project. The Roberts brothers working together is usually a good thing. I hope they do not release before the product matches the vision (which IMHO will take around 5 years, so launch around end of 2017ish)


Have fun

Alomar

Black Hole, even if this game get's made and made well. It still could and should have been done with 1/4 or less of their budget, without the unethical need to sell pixel ships pre-launch for extra capital, and with much better management. I for one am glad I avoided backing this project, I know over a dozen friends/previous guildies who regret doing so.

Adjuvant1

But it's bdsse (best darn space sim ever) and the whole purpose of crowdfunding to an independent studio was so that the artistry could be complete before a "big overseeing publisher" would have pushed it out, incomplete, just for profit! Are you implying this company might push out a minimally viable product after all that big talk? Are you saying they may "release" before the game is feature complete? Even with all these contrived delays?

You're not saying CIG has been lying to us, are you?

edit: Was to Erillion, not Alomar.

Erillion said:

When people talk about keeping an "iron grip on scope" it needs to be kept in mind that the last stretch goal was added in autumn of 2014 (and that was "Pets", which is something that already exists in vanilla CryEngine, so only needs minimum extra work). Most of the stretch goals in 2014 were ships, modular equipment and star systems that were most likely planned in anyway. Not exra major gameplay mechanics additions. There are quite a few infamous people that talk about ongoing scope creep w.r.t. launch day of Persistent Universe, even when facts show that this is not true.

It seems to me that the only part which has grown larger than planned is the part about procedural generation. The many CryTek engineers that moved over to form the new CIG Foundry 42 Frankfurt studio have worked on that system for quite some time and it seems destined for prominence in the project. Especially with No Mans Sky and Elite:Dangerous featuring successful implementations of procedural generation.

Personally i also got the impression that the addition of Erin Roberts (as Production Director) in tandem with Chris Roberts as Creative Director has improved the overall quality and efficiency of the project. The Roberts brothers working together is usually a good thing. I hope they do not release before the product matches the vision (which IMHO will take around 5 years, so launch around end of 2017ish)


Have fun

Solar_Prophet

Adjuvant1 said:

But it's bdsse (best darn space sim ever) and the whole purpose of crowdfunding to an independent studio was so that the artistry could be complete before a "big overseeing publisher" would have pushed it out, incomplete, just for profit! Are you implying this company might push out a minimally viable product after all that big talk? Are you saying they may "release" before the game is feature complete? Even with all these contrived delays?

You're not saying CIG has been lying to us, are you?

edit: Was to Erillion, not Alomar.

Don't be absurd! The addition of stretch goals will in no way, shape, or form affect the 2014 release date of the game!

Oh wait, it's 2016. Whoops, where does the time go? They uh, need more time and money, so they're going to shove it out the door in a 'minimally viable state'. But hey, that's better than a BIG, EVIL PUBLISHER making them do it, right? Right? 

Astropuyo

Eh?

You who have "invested" in the game in a system that is practically near infancy (Crowd funding) and are complaining now?


Are you kidding me?!

Why do you think they went crowd fund the first place. Because people who live off of investing saw what this way. A Shitty little side project working on the horrendous *(fucking lol@that cryengine comment) cryengine (Quite possible one of the most malleable engines I've ever played with).

No the facts are you guys bought into a scam. Investing scams come in all forms and this fucking thing is def swampland being converted to housing tracks in fl type of feel.


Anyone ever see the Riches?

Yeah it's like that..so for anyone to complain about their "Time being taken"....They are the kids with an Alien robot for a pet but they can't show anyone because it'll get killed by the sun. (We had a kid in elementary with that story. Never did see his alien.)

adamlotus75

My main problem with SC is a cash shop that makes mobile IAP games seem like a benevolent charity. Also, it seems like they are working on: 50% ships to sell, 40% SQ42, 10% 'life in space living universe game' - that 10% is the reason that people backed the game. Their latest addition to the living universe is shops to buy more stuff.

If this was a publisher driven project it would have been canned over a year ago. Because people are still throwing good money after bad it continues.

Erillion

>>> Their latest addition to the living universe is shops to buy more stuff.  >>>

With in game money earned from missions they buy stuff e.g. clothing and weapons.


Have fun

Adjuvant1

Erillion said:

>>> Their latest addition to the living universe is shops to buy more stuff.  >>>

With in game money earned from missions they buy stuff e.g. clothing and weapons.


Have fun

and...

stuff bought in game with real UEC in-game will carry over through game wipes. We discussed this. Do I have to go hunt up the quote?

Erillion

Adjuvant1 said:

 the whole purpose of crowdfunding to an independent studio was

The whole purpose of crowdfunding in THIS case was the revival of a genre that no big publisher was interested in because it was not a console compatible "Assassins Call of Battlefield 26".

And it worked - the genre is seeing a lot of new space video games. Some even look promising.

Personally i give credit to Star Citizen and Elite:Dangerous for this genre revival.


Have fun

Adjuvant1

Adjuvant1 said:

Erillion said:

>>> Their latest addition to the living universe is shops to buy more stuff.  >>>

With in game money earned from missions they buy stuff e.g. clothing and weapons.


Have fun

and...

stuff bought in game with real UEC in-game will carry over through game wipes. We discussed this. Do I have to go hunt up the quote?

Here, I did it anyway. 5:43-7:43

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15287-10-For-The-Chairman

Erillion said:

Adjuvant1 said:

 the whole purpose of crowdfunding to an independent studio was

The whole purpose of crowdfunding in THIS case was the revival of a genre that no big publisher was interested in because it was not a console compatible "Assassins Call of Battlefield 26".

And it worked - the genre is seeing a lot of new space video games. Some even look promising.

Personally i give credit to Star Citizen and Elite:Dangerous for this genre revival.


Have fun

Nonsense that "this was intended to cause some big revival of the genre". Citation of any discussion or even mention of this before 2014.