Destiny is absolutely not an MMO. The most you ever see at one time are the two dozen people at the hub, and there's no interaction there beyond emoting.
___________________________ Have flask; will travel.
I remember playing EQOA (Everquest online adventures) for ps2 and ffxi on ps2 (you needed a special HDD hardware add-on which contained the game pre-installed). Both of those were in like 2002/2003. And it was a pretty viable market then, over 13 years ago... EQOA was ps2 console only and had a pretty hefty population for the first two years.
Man I loved Phantasy Star Online for Dreamcast. Then there was Socom for PS2 and FF11 for PS2 where you had to buy a hard drive followed. Never got FF11 back then because I couldn't afford it. Did play Everquest Online Adventures though.
Still it will not work as things are now. PC gamers play on consoles, Console Gamers don't play PC games. MMO's, FPS, and even ARPG's are best on PC handsdown. Unles there is a new revolution in how we can "operate" games this will not change anytime soon.
So basically what this article is saying is that yes, MMO's have been dumbed down to fit on a console by having fewer skills on screen, fewer choices that have to be made and that you have to learn your char and skills less.
If it's all the same I'd rather keep the old MMO philosophy of the "serious game with some serious depth behind it". If that means it has to be played on PC, so be it. Nothing wrong with that. There's plenty of games on console without them destroying the MMO genre as well.
Nice post...pretty much my feeling on consoles also....I would jsut as soon they make their own MMOs and keep them seperate from the PC ones.
Final Fantasy XIV is the same game on a PS4 as it is on PC. You can even use a mouse and keyboard to play it. It remains one of the top MMOs in the world. Going to the Playstation did nothing in terms of changing the game or dumbing the game down. It is just another platform to play the game on. Period. It did not alter the game by being on the PS4.
And then you forgot a important aspect in why Console vs PC differ, and that is the location or situation you play these on. Most play consoles on there TV on the couch, agree? Well I don't know about you but that is not a good spot for mouse/keyboard handling. PC gamers (laptop gamers excluded) are most times on a desk, with a desk chair, perfect for mouse/keyboard, but when I play some games with a controller it just feels somewhat awkward on a desk.
So many kneejerk reactions here to ability design philosophy in modern MMOs being dismissed as "made for consoles." Of the MMOs that I've played in recent years that have taken a limited hotbar approach, GW2, Secret World and ESO, only ESO ever had any intention of being also on consoles.
It's not done for that reason even if it is also convenient to remap the skills for gamepad use. Like Torval said above, games that go this route do it to get away from playing the UI instead of playing the game - something FPS games have always been good at.
I find the old-fashioned 5 bar, 50 skill MMOs tiresome with their contrived systems of abilities that only do one thing for one special purpose. I'd much rather play the new style MMOs with fewer abilities that have more utility (affects multiple mobs differently than single mobs, damage and cc, heal off damage done, etc.) chosen from a larger pool of known skills.
Anyway, that's not what I think this article is about. This is about AAA MMORPGs, not just MMOified FPS games, having success in the console market and that being a good thing for the continued progression of the genre with a bigger potential audience that could stimulate more AAA development. Something that will also be good for those of us who prefer to play them on PCs.
I don't find anything you said here unreasonable; however, I feel like the made for consoles refrain is not terribly different than the playing the ui instead of playing the game refrain. Both are dismissive and obviously pejorative; they both certainly do not represent their respective fans' impressions at all.
Also, I think you would have a very hard time showing that the MMOs featuring fewer abilities have more utility, that the other MMOs have many abilities that only do one thing for one special purpose. I find those statements subjective to an extreme.
Overall, gamers should stop so easily dismissing the things that others gamers find fascinating or engaging, or even just plain fun about the games they like. Maybe that's what you meant to emphasize?
This will not effect other companies because Zenimax still has not said a SINGLE WORD ABOUT ANY SALES TOTALS.
Its just corporate PR BS. "It was well received" is not what a company says when their product is a success... they say "WE SOLD *** MILLION COPIES ZOMG THE GAME IS A HIT LOOK AT THE SALES TOTALS AND READ THE LINKS FROM THESE RETAILERS AS PROOF!".
ESO is a flop and the people still playing it are still complaining about the lack of players on the offical forums.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
I believe the major reason you've only seen the mmo movement to console recently is because the PS3/XBox360 couldn't handle them. The new systems don't have an issue. Really a no brainer to me.
I think GW2 is next for console; idk why.....just a hunch.
Would be a good move for them. I think the transition to console would be pretty easy compared to most MMOs. Would sell very well I think.
Yeah it would at least breath new life into the game. Right now it's just the same people, few new players are finding their way to the game and HoT wasn't hugely successful beyond people already playing GW2.
When I first started gaming we didn't have all the choices like we do now today. Watching gaming consoles starting to take over the market was an exciting stage. Now the move of mmos to console I was always thinking "this will never work" as to me pc was the best choice and always will be.
I have changed a lot from those days and I enjoy playing a few mmos now on console more than the pc.
My fav console mmos are
xbox one
1. ESO
2. neverwinter
ps4
1. final fantasy reborn
2. dc universe online
Games I play I don't call mmos
1. world of tanks
2. the division
3. destiny
I would love to see more top notch mmos hit the console market.
You see..
I play PSO-2 through using a Proxy and using an English Patch. The game is an Action Oriented RPG advertised by SEGA as an "Online RPG" but I see everyone declaring games that are not MMORPGs as MMORPGs.
Every single time I see a console get a version of an MMORPG or Online RPG in any form, what normally happens is that PC gamers have to wonder where the expansions of the game will go. Will the PC game get expanded further? Or will a new console version be released or perhaps a new handheld version?
Playing Japanese RPGs, especially Phantasy Star Universe and Phantasy Star Online 2 have both taught me that the Japanese Console market is truly about getting people to buy as many console and handhelds as possible to enjoy a game. A person who wants to enjoy PSO-2 to see the ENTIRE STORY the game has to offer is forced to obtain the following:
PSO-2 (PC/ Playstation 4, or Vita)
PSO2es
Phantasy Star Nova
Meaning everyone has to own a Tablet/SmartPhone, PC + Console, Handheld.
Think the Singleplayer game Final Fantasy XII went any different? Well guess what.. Its sequel was Japanese-Only and on Handheld.......
This comes to my point...
I see cute little pictures of the two consoles... The Playstation 4 and the Xbox One.
I am not worried about the Xbox One because when an MMORPG is made for a PC, it can be adapted for a Console as long as the specifications warrant it. I can then play the game on PC knowing it was not bogged down to console-level updates and cute little console-game promotions either, but I will feel it when I have to deal with all the whining Teenagers everytime they mouth off post-PvP death.....
However, I make the Argument against the Playstation 4.
I live in the United States and the Playstation 4 is a Japanese Console. I do not want to deal with the sheer amount of Japanese video games that get sequels on their handhelds causing players to BUY handhelds just to buy the game that will allow them to get items in the main game through Item Codes. Japan is FILLED with games like this..
Even Koreans know that if they are going to be serious and focus on making MMORPGs, that to release them localized on PC and focus on the platform itself. We don't see a million sequels on Consoles and Handhelds... We see all content additions on PC itself....
Returning to the Phantasy Star example..
Anyone here remember Phantasy Star Online?
First people had to buy a Dreamcast and then buy the Game. Then players had to BUY THE GAME AGAIN to buy "Version 2" to get the update. Then in order to actually continue with an UPDATED game with new maps and weapons, everyone had to BUY a GAMECUBE and guess what... PAY FOR THE SAME GAME AGAIN. Then when the game improved and got a graphics and item update, everyone had to once again start their characters again, buy an Xbox, buy the game YET AGAIN! To make matters worse, the servers started closing down and subscription fees from Version 2.....but that did not stop them from making PSObb (blue burst) meaning if people wanted to see Episode IV content, they had to actually build a PC, find/buy/download PSObb, Start characters ALL OVER AGAIN, and once again register and pay a subscription fee...
Anyone here who can speak, read, and write Japanese like myself will truly know that heavy region blocking is practiced over there...and many importers will speak of the many stories of coming across content being denied due to the "For Use In Japan Only" Labels and Warnings that exist in their own local games.
At least Square-Enix is doing well with Final Fantasy XIV, and I am sorry.... when I played that game for Six Months and did practically everything I could do in that game, the biggest problem I had was actually dealing with the Console Gamers and their mentality along with their shortcomings in their technical specs. I found peace of mind prior to leaving the game when I joined a group made up of people in Friendlist and FC where one of the requirements was to prove that every person who played was on PC and obtaining stable framerate.
This came after the console lag and lack of decent resolution on consoles to match a stable framerate actually caused a lot of failures. Once we went through Quality Control, the last two months of my time there was smooth like butter.
People talk about making MMORPGs or Online RPGs for Consoles, acting like it would be such a blessing. Watch what happens when you own a Console and are told that the next major patch or build is going to be for the next generation console, forcing you to fork out $400 - $600 just for you to continue just so you can get a stable framerate.
...Seriously speaking..
I run on an SLI System and the FIRST TIME in my life I ever failed a Software/Hardware Check was for Testing my System ability to handle FULL Virtual Reality... not any of that "Compatibility" Crap that is out there... but Native VR. I just recently passed all recommended checks.
I can see the future...
Consoles create Standard MMORPGs
PCs create the next generation VR-MMORPGs...
(Already there are several in the works that done right will tear apart just about anything we have as far as level of immersion goes, that is of course if it agrees with the person playing it.)
Sorry for the long post.
Rather than post 1000 replies in a thread, I rather post a lot in a single post.
Comments
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
___________________________
Have flask; will travel.
And then you forgot a important aspect in why Console vs PC differ, and that is the location or situation you play these on. Most play consoles on there TV on the couch, agree? Well I don't know about you but that is not a good spot for mouse/keyboard handling. PC gamers (laptop gamers excluded) are most times on a desk, with a desk chair, perfect for mouse/keyboard, but when I play some games with a controller it just feels somewhat awkward on a desk.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Also, I think you would have a very hard time showing that the MMOs featuring fewer abilities have more utility, that the other MMOs have many abilities that only do one thing for one special purpose. I find those statements subjective to an extreme.
Overall, gamers should stop so easily dismissing the things that others gamers find fascinating or engaging, or even just plain fun about the games they like. Maybe that's what you meant to emphasize?
Its just corporate PR BS. "It was well received" is not what a company says when their product is a success... they say "WE SOLD *** MILLION COPIES ZOMG THE GAME IS A HIT LOOK AT THE SALES TOTALS AND READ THE LINKS FROM THESE RETAILERS AS PROOF!".
ESO is a flop and the people still playing it are still complaining about the lack of players on the offical forums.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
I have changed a lot from those days and I enjoy playing a few mmos now on console more than the pc.
My fav console mmos are
xbox one
1. ESO
2. neverwinter
ps4
1. final fantasy reborn
2. dc universe online
Games I play I don't call mmos
1. world of tanks
2. the division
3. destiny
I would love to see more top notch mmos hit the console market.
You see..
I play PSO-2 through using a Proxy and using an English Patch. The game is an Action Oriented RPG advertised by SEGA as an "Online RPG" but I see everyone declaring games that are not MMORPGs as MMORPGs.
Every single time I see a console get a version of an MMORPG or Online RPG in any form, what normally happens is that PC gamers have to wonder where the expansions of the game will go. Will the PC game get expanded further? Or will a new console version be released or perhaps a new handheld version?
Playing Japanese RPGs, especially Phantasy Star Universe and Phantasy Star Online 2 have both taught me that the Japanese Console market is truly about getting people to buy as many console and handhelds as possible to enjoy a game. A person who wants to enjoy PSO-2 to see the ENTIRE STORY the game has to offer is forced to obtain the following:
PSO-2 (PC/ Playstation 4, or Vita)
PSO2es
Phantasy Star Nova
Meaning everyone has to own a Tablet/SmartPhone, PC + Console, Handheld.
Think the Singleplayer game Final Fantasy XII went any different? Well guess what.. Its sequel was Japanese-Only and on Handheld.......
This comes to my point...
I see cute little pictures of the two consoles... The Playstation 4 and the Xbox One.
I am not worried about the Xbox One because when an MMORPG is made for a PC, it can be adapted for a Console as long as the specifications warrant it. I can then play the game on PC knowing it was not bogged down to console-level updates and cute little console-game promotions either, but I will feel it when I have to deal with all the whining Teenagers everytime they mouth off post-PvP death.....
However, I make the Argument against the Playstation 4.
I live in the United States and the Playstation 4 is a Japanese Console. I do not want to deal with the sheer amount of Japanese video games that get sequels on their handhelds causing players to BUY handhelds just to buy the game that will allow them to get items in the main game through Item Codes. Japan is FILLED with games like this..
Even Koreans know that if they are going to be serious and focus on making MMORPGs, that to release them localized on PC and focus on the platform itself. We don't see a million sequels on Consoles and Handhelds... We see all content additions on PC itself....
Returning to the Phantasy Star example..
Anyone here remember Phantasy Star Online?
First people had to buy a Dreamcast and then buy the Game. Then players had to BUY THE GAME AGAIN to buy "Version 2" to get the update. Then in order to actually continue with an UPDATED game with new maps and weapons, everyone had to BUY a GAMECUBE and guess what... PAY FOR THE SAME GAME AGAIN. Then when the game improved and got a graphics and item update, everyone had to once again start their characters again, buy an Xbox, buy the game YET AGAIN! To make matters worse, the servers started closing down and subscription fees from Version 2.....but that did not stop them from making PSObb (blue burst) meaning if people wanted to see Episode IV content, they had to actually build a PC, find/buy/download PSObb, Start characters ALL OVER AGAIN, and once again register and pay a subscription fee...
Anyone here who can speak, read, and write Japanese like myself will truly know that heavy region blocking is practiced over there...and many importers will speak of the many stories of coming across content being denied due to the "For Use In Japan Only" Labels and Warnings that exist in their own local games.
At least Square-Enix is doing well with Final Fantasy XIV, and I am sorry.... when I played that game for Six Months and did practically everything I could do in that game, the biggest problem I had was actually dealing with the Console Gamers and their mentality along with their shortcomings in their technical specs. I found peace of mind prior to leaving the game when I joined a group made up of people in Friendlist and FC where one of the requirements was to prove that every person who played was on PC and obtaining stable framerate.
This came after the console lag and lack of decent resolution on consoles to match a stable framerate actually caused a lot of failures. Once we went through Quality Control, the last two months of my time there was smooth like butter.
People talk about making MMORPGs or Online RPGs for Consoles, acting like it would be such a blessing. Watch what happens when you own a Console and are told that the next major patch or build is going to be for the next generation console, forcing you to fork out $400 - $600 just for you to continue just so you can get a stable framerate.
...Seriously speaking..
I run on an SLI System and the FIRST TIME in my life I ever failed a Software/Hardware Check was for Testing my System ability to handle FULL Virtual Reality... not any of that "Compatibility" Crap that is out there... but Native VR. I just recently passed all recommended checks.
I can see the future...
Consoles create Standard MMORPGs
PCs create the next generation VR-MMORPGs...
(Already there are several in the works that done right will tear apart just about anything we have as far as level of immersion goes, that is of course if it agrees with the person playing it.)
Sorry for the long post.
Rather than post 1000 replies in a thread, I rather post a lot in a single post.