Look at the number of bugs that were reported in beta , before launch , before launch I say , that made it through (and dear god some still exist).
Then also look at the number of posts over the year plus from people noting problems with an upcoming patch/release on the PTS that still make it through.
Zenimax's problem isn't the number of testers , it's the shit quality of their own coders , or managers not letting them have the time to fix things.
The only thing more testers would do is point out more shit that's broke that they still won't fix.
Given a scope of project like an MMO there is hundreds, probably even thousands, of bugs. It's normal, you cannot avoid it.
The game will never be bug free, the bugs you have reported might still be there years later because you fix bugs based on their priority/severity and difficulty to fix, not FIFO.
Silly thread, silly article attempting for a spin...
How about the devs listen to the player feedback when it's given on the PTS?
... what makes you think they don't?
What makes you think they do? They didn't seem to listen very well when the game was in beta and had a terrible launch. As far as I know it's still the same team with the same guy in charge...
Define listen?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Devs list of demands:
1. Pay a subscription
2. Buy stuff from the cash shop regularly
3. Pay for respects when we change your skills
4. Always agree with what we're doing
5. Get lots of your friends to play and spend money on our game
6. Volunteer your time on our test server even though we may or may not use your input
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Ofc players are not responsible for testing. But I do think that testservers can be a positive thing that an inhouse QA team can't do on the same scale.
- Testservers will let players see upcoming changes earlier and give feedback to the devs. The feedback can be useful, because people on testservers are usually more interested (apart from the few that just want a sneak peak of upcoming content). - If enough people play on testservers, they will catch bugs that a QA team won't catch. Players are not bound by testing procedures and sometimes don't even pay attention to tutorials. This can lead to unexpected behaviour that reveals bugs. Not to mention the players who just make a sport out of finding glitches and bugs.
Alongside an inhouse testing team , this could be quite useful, both to developer and community.
Oh looky another stealth thread telling us how great ZeniMax is lmfao. Tell ya what OP why don't you and the staff on this site test content for them? God knows you owe them that for all the pontificating you do over such an average mmo.
I've been playing MMO's since about the days of Velious in classic Everquest. I can say without any doubt that this one's not that average. Wow, Ro, TOR, GW2,WHO; I've played them all and this one isn't quite what you're saying it is.
PTS is meant to test stuff that can't be tested with limited amount to paid testers, like the assassination target stuff mentioned in article. How many MMOs has had bosses and mobs spawning way too rarely when players? Then those tend to be tweaking in some patch after the game has gone live.
That kind of stuff are what PTS is for.
Damn MMOs players are daft. It is humiliating to think that some people count me among them.
PTS is meant to test stuff that can't be tested with limited amount to paid testers, like the assassination target stuff mentioned in article. How many MMOs has had bosses and mobs spawning way too rarely when players? Then those tend to be tweaking in some patch after the game has gone live.
That kind of stuff are what PTS is for.
Damn MMOs players are daft. It is humiliating to think that some people count me among them.
So what are you saying? People know exactly what PTS servers are. The issue here is the suggestion that players have to use PTS.
"Everything" can be tested - nuclear power station control software undergoes extreme testing. More testing = more cost. PTS servers are a form of cheap testing - no harm in that at all either. To suggest that people have to use PTS - nah.
Everything new that you buy gets tested - not just software - you don't see signs saying "This is a test product. Please send us your feedback after use. You have to buy this rather than our old tested model to enable us to finish our evaluation. Thank you for being a forced volunteer."
I will Alpha and Beta play any game that strikes my interest. However, once a game is launched I will seldom, if ever go on their test servers. The Dev's have gone to the point where there really is no more Alpha and Beta testing like it was a few decades back. The Dev's have opted to go the "internal testing route" and that is their choice. By doing so, the burden of finding bugs lands squarely on the Dev's shoulders since the gamers have been relegated to the post of spreaders of hype and they are giving a taste of the game so they will fork out their money to actually buy it. I have no sympathy these days for Dev's putting out buggy code. They apparently don't really want our input so I'll not give them mine.
If you want to use my time you're going to have to pay for it. And no, helping make the game better is not enough. That's your job Mr. Game Company Runner. I'm here to have fun while you empty my wallet.
I agree want to have us test and report, then offer something. The old saying is "nothing for nothing"!
Plus test servers are mostly used by bottor's to get cheat programs working. I was always surprised developers never commented on banning players that were cheating on test servers. Should be easier to find when they test than once it is working on live.
Sometimes it's not always about what you can see or hear but what's under the hood of a game that's most impressive. Between those thousands and thousands of lines of code, magic happens. Sometimes the most amazing feats of gaming wizardry happen without you even noticing.
Maybe the the PTS should be part of the business model. Something like providing incentives for time and feedback that the player could redeem on their home server.
Would have to seriously disagree with the impact any commenting from players has on the dev team - whatsoever. I have been with this game since early beta rounds to present, and time and again they completely ignore critical feedback and cherry pick what they want to address which they THINK might be popular - to the lowest common denominator. Nothing more and nothing less than insulting and a proven waste of time to anyone who has been willing to seriously test content in the game.
THAT IS NOT THE PLAYERS RESPONSIBILITY TO ADDRESS. There are still bugs present in the game which have been there since before launch and no matter how many times they are told about it, they still do not fix them --- and no I am not talking about stupid class related buffs, nerfs, etc. I am talking about actual failed mechanics and systems in the game which they still have not corrected and which impact game play and progression.
You also do not need a staff of 1000s to run new content, considering they way they implement it, most questing zones are still on rails and can be completed in a few hours, dungeons are easy to test after multiple stab at runs, etc. The specific workings of large numbers of players stressing the system are never the issue, but rather the problems always arise from lack of testing out the small details of shifts in mechanics and stat cap allocations to existing builds, which is always the biggest issue with this game: they cannot cease incessantly shifting gears mid stride of a goal and allow players to actually become fully vested in the systems they introduce but then conversely yank.
Personally, I don't give a rats ass about the hype train for this DLC - I will never set foot in this game again until they actually stabilize its core progression and stat systems and stop using players as guinea pigs to test content they are too short sighted to understand from a sustainable MMO perspective.
Comments
The game will never be bug free, the bugs you have reported might still be there years later because you fix bugs based on their priority/severity and difficulty to fix, not FIFO.
Silly thread, silly article attempting for a spin...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
1. Pay a subscription
2. Buy stuff from the cash shop regularly
3. Pay for respects when we change your skills
4. Always agree with what we're doing
5. Get lots of your friends to play and spend money on our game
6. Volunteer your time on our test server even though we may or may not use your input
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
- Testservers will let players see upcoming changes earlier and give feedback to the devs. The feedback can be useful, because people on testservers are usually more interested (apart from the few that just want a sneak peak of upcoming content).
- If enough people play on testservers, they will catch bugs that a QA team won't catch. Players are not bound by testing procedures and sometimes don't even pay attention to tutorials. This can lead to unexpected behaviour that reveals bugs. Not to mention the players who just make a sport out of finding glitches and bugs.
Alongside an inhouse testing team , this could be quite useful, both to developer and community.
I've been playing MMO's since about the days of Velious in classic Everquest. I can say without any doubt that this one's not that average. Wow, Ro, TOR, GW2,WHO; I've played them all and this one isn't quite what you're saying it is.
PTS is meant to test stuff that can't be tested with limited amount to paid testers, like the assassination target stuff mentioned in article. How many MMOs has had bosses and mobs spawning way too rarely when players? Then those tend to be tweaking in some patch after the game has gone live.
That kind of stuff are what PTS is for.
Damn MMOs players are daft. It is humiliating to think that some people count me among them.
"Everything" can be tested - nuclear power station control software undergoes extreme testing. More testing = more cost. PTS servers are a form of cheap testing - no harm in that at all either. To suggest that people have to use PTS - nah.
Everything new that you buy gets tested - not just software - you don't see signs saying "This is a test product. Please send us your feedback after use. You have to buy this rather than our old tested model to enable us to finish our evaluation. Thank you for being a forced volunteer."
Ratero.
Plus test servers are mostly used by bottor's to get cheat programs working. I was always surprised developers never commented on banning players that were cheating on test servers. Should be easier to find when they test than once it is working on live.
Rob Manuel
THAT IS NOT THE PLAYERS RESPONSIBILITY TO ADDRESS. There are still bugs present in the game which have been there since before launch and no matter how many times they are told about it, they still do not fix them --- and no I am not talking about stupid class related buffs, nerfs, etc. I am talking about actual failed mechanics and systems in the game which they still have not corrected and which impact game play and progression.
You also do not need a staff of 1000s to run new content, considering they way they implement it, most questing zones are still on rails and can be completed in a few hours, dungeons are easy to test after multiple stab at runs, etc. The specific workings of large numbers of players stressing the system are never the issue, but rather the problems always arise from lack of testing out the small details of shifts in mechanics and stat cap allocations to existing builds, which is always the biggest issue with this game: they cannot cease incessantly shifting gears mid stride of a goal and allow players to actually become fully vested in the systems they introduce but then conversely yank.
Personally, I don't give a rats ass about the hype train for this DLC - I will never set foot in this game again until they actually stabilize its core progression and stat systems and stop using players as guinea pigs to test content they are too short sighted to understand from a sustainable MMO perspective.