For me the last P2W game I played was Archeage. But for me I define P2W if I have to buy mats from a cash shop etc...to make weapons/armor better, or buy anything from the store that I can't buy in game. I have stayed away from all eastern imports since Archeage. But mostly stay away because I do not like the anti-cheat program most commonly gameguard that comes with most eastern imports of them as they act just like a worm virus would. If it doesn't uninstall when I uninstall the game I don't need it.
For me, Archeage was the biggest P2W game I have played. I have stayed away from most eastern games and publishers like Perfect World. AA just had so many things designed to get you to spend more money on top of your sub fee. Labor potions were a big issue but they did eventually adjust that for patrons to make it more reasonable. TS trees/logs were ridiculous, you had a .28% chance of getting one from planting a tree or a 10% chance from the cash shop and they were needed for all siege gear and vehicles.
I also see Star Citizen becoming the next big P2W game. Ships like the $200 Constellation with weapons out the ying-yang and its own personal fighter will crush anyone who did not drop $200 into the game. Then there are even bigger ships to will dominate that. CIG is in a pickle, they either tick off their whales by making these ships somewhat achievable in the game or they let the whales dominate the game while everyone else leaves. They say they will stop selling ships when the game launches but that is a complete lie and will never happen. They found a license to print money with ship sales and they are never going away. Making these ships attainable for the average player using just game play will take away from that money printing machine.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
To be P2W a game must sell things that either are winning or make winning easier (make it require less skill). Almost no F2P MMORPGs do that. Conveniences and cosmetics are commonly sold, but power increases are so rare that even after several threads on this topic I still couldn't name a single specific MMORPG that was P2W.
People sure enjoy flinging around rhetoric blindly though!
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
1. Anything by R2Games (no reason to name a specific one, since they are all the same game, reskinned over and over again)
2. Anything by Aeria Games (at least all of their games are different)
3. Anything from Perfect World Entertainment
4. then anything named in this thread (especially since most of them are different levels of subjectively P2W, I know many people who would say Archeage or Eve are only "semi-P2w")
5. and lastly anything that only sells conveniences but for some reason some people still call that P2W (sorry, but buying xp potions and bag slots IS NOT P2W, see 1-3 for what is.)
What about games that sell xp potions? Allows players to level faster which means they can easily beat lower level players and even slow their progression in open world pvp by camping quest hubs.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
You can pay enough money to enchant your armor/weapon to have almost 100% damage reduction/dodge versus any particular class, effectively not getting hit by them. Additionally, you can pay to enchant your gear to almost 100% extra critical damage+crit chance or just raw damage versus any particular class, effectively one shooting that class with a single crit and even regular hit. You cannot do that without the cash shop because those enchanting stones break when they fail and they fail a lot. The cash shop gives you 100% success rate.
Also Skills level up by reading books with extremely low success rate as well, and one book per day. Again, the cash shop gives you 100% success rate to level up your skills + you can read 2 books per day. A skill at max level hits like a truck even if you are low level. But its virtually impossible to max skills without cash shop because with every skill level you need an extra book (for skill lvl 2 you need 1 book, for lvl 3 need 2..., for level 20 needs 19 books, etc.).
There are more p2w things in the game, but those are the worst. I will never forget a polish dude playing a lightning mage and killing everyone in the open world pvp. People from 3 factions, everyone ganking him and he wiped the floor with them, every day, every time. Im talking 50+ people against 1 in open pvp.
I believe they exist - I am yet to play a single game where you can buy armor and weapons in the cash shop that are far better than anything you can get in game.
I am yet to come across a game like that personally.
That's because no game works that way. They don't have dropped items then better items in a cash shop. They sell gold so you can buy the items. That's why all of these cash shops have alternate currencies. Better yet they just sell the item.
It doesn't matter if you can get it in the game. If someone just pays for everything and someone else earns it all by playing we still have a player who paid with a credit card for everything.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Its easy to find one of the most P2W games. Just go check out games like League of Angels. This game frequently advertises on this site. Watch and be amazed by all the money people spend. It is truly mind boggling. China based browser games should be banned in the United States, it is almost criminal in my opinion. I know people who play it innocently and become severely addicted to these easy style games. They require basically no skill and many players find it relaxing. Slowly it turns into a terrible addiction. I know F2P mmorpgs can do this as well, but I have never seen anything quite like the addiction of these little games. Someone should do a serious study on these type of games. It is completely out of control.
To be P2W a game must sell things that either are winning or make winning easier (make it require less skill). Almost no F2P MMORPGs do that. Conveniences and cosmetics are commonly sold, but power increases are so rare that even after several threads on this topic I still couldn't name a single specific MMORPG that was P2W.
People sure enjoy flinging around rhetoric blindly though!
Shhh, stop with the critical thinking and let your emotions drive your response.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I believe they exist - I am yet to play a single game where you can buy armor and weapons in the cash shop that are far better than anything you can get in game.
I am yet to come across a game like that personally.
That's because no game works that way. They don't have dropped items then better items in a cash shop. They sell gold so you can buy the items. That's why all of these cash shops have alternate currencies. Better yet they just sell the item.
It doesn't matter if you can get it in the game. If someone just pays for everything and someone else earns it all by playing we still have a player who paid with a credit card for everything.
I understand and thats your definiton of P2W.
For me it isn't - as long as you can obtain cash shop items via gameplay (as in paying for them via in game gold on Auction House) - the game is not p2w for me.
P2W for me is simple - buy something in the cash shop that gives you stuff that is way better than anything in game and that you can NEVER obtain with normal gameplay
That is pay to win for me - as the ONLY way to get superior items is to pay real money.
Again since there is no defined P2W definition we all have different opinions on what it is
Well don't you think you should reevaluate your stance when your definition of P2W includes being able to spend as much as you want on a credit card and not be P2W?
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Not in the early days epics 1 through 4. I knew a ton of players that made a good amount of currency in dungeons. I was on Yeti server.
I came late to the game. Got into the 90s. I made a little stash had a fwe items and a couple of pets. By this time.......I forget what release I was in at the time TBH, but the game was not new. The P2W factor was all about improving on chances to combine pet cards and improve gear. It was a gradual thing over time but eventually, Shop users could get to combinations that non users just couldn't get
Not in the early days epics 1 through 4. I knew a ton of players that made a good amount of currency in dungeons. I was on Yeti server.
I came late to the game. Got into the 90s. I made a little stash had a fwe items and a couple of pets. By this time.......I forget what release I was in at the time TBH, but the game was not new. The P2W factor was all about improving on chances to combine pet cards and improve gear. It was a gradual thing over time but eventually, Shop users could get to combinations that non users just couldn't get
Yah that came later about the time I quit. The game really lost its way and the game mechanics really shifted from the very awesome original style. Epics 1 through 4 were so awesome and competitive. I thought during this time period it was the best PvP mmorpg. Another great game got ruined by Greed and fell by the wayside.
Okay, I will start talking about the actual question OP asked.
I have not played all potentially p2w games, of course, because I avoid them if I sense the possibility of it. However, the most p2w (however you define it) game that I have ever played is ArcheAge. The reason is because (entirely my definition and standards) that if you pay a sub, you shouldn't need to spend money in the cash shop to have fun.
With ArcheAge, I feel that even if you are a patron, if you want to participate in endgame pvp in a meaningful way within a reasonable amount of time (if you have a job, family, social life and you can't play 16 hours a day) then you are pretty much going to need to spend money (eg. for item regrades, to get gold, etc.).
Though there is A LOT I absolutely loved about AA, I just couldn't justify to myself committing the time and money it would take to be committed to the game.
I know DMKano says he didn't spend money in the cash shop and I believe him, but my experience wasn't like that.
Yeah ArcheAge was the game I was thinking of when I posted this because so many people talk about AA when P2W comes up. I feel many Perfect World games can probably beat AA in P2W like Forsaken World. I never played AA long enough to know how P2W it is.
I wouldn't even put a PW game on my computer, so I haven't played those.
Are you trying to get many threads up to get from epic to legendary on the forum?
Ye, Blue. Are you trying to rush the content? Dont forget there is not much to look forward to once you reach the endgame (legendary).
I did not even know there was a rank above Epic until Kano got it. I just post as I always have. Which is why my thread count is over 700. That did not happen over night. I wonder if Kano and I can raid once I get there lol
There's a rank above Epic? Crap, I've got get busy now.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
So many games can and are considered P2W but what do you think is the most P2W?
Eve online. You can go into eve online with 15 bucks a month, and take 10 years to get to the top, or you can pay 300 a month, have a army of automated miners, dump another 10 grand in for plex, and high end accounts, and have everything.
I can't disagree, you can buy everything you just stated, and yet.... none of that will help you "win" EVE.
If such a thing is even possible.
Someone with just 3 months in skills could still school you....
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
To be P2W a game must sell things that either are winning or make winning easier (make it require less skill). Almost no F2P MMORPGs do that. Conveniences and cosmetics are commonly sold, but power increases are so rare that even after several threads on this topic I still couldn't name a single specific MMORPG that was P2W.
People sure enjoy flinging around rhetoric blindly though!
Shhh, stop with the critical thinking and let your emotions drive your response.
I wouldn't call that critical thinking, he is very emotional when it comes to calling archeage p2w. Critical thinking is this. In a mmo you can't win, the game goes on forever, so the definition of winning then in a mmo is the accumulation of levels, gold, pixels, stats ect. Eve online, Archeage, Wow, Neverwinter, STO, SWTOR, EQ, EQ2, and every other one, if you dump 10 grand into the game, and some one dumps nothing or a sub fee, the person who dumps money in always, and I do mean always has more wealth, levels, gold, pixels stats.
So what ever you want to say to keep your self playing them I guess is what it comes down to, or maybe it is something along the lines of people need to some way to prove to them selves, it isn't a advantage. But no matter how you look at it, if you want to be logical, and critical think about it. Some one who dumps large sums of money into any of those games always has more. Yeah it might not matter, because you are happy with what ever you are doing in the game, but it is still pay 2 win. Because if you just play 2 hours a day, and only dump a sub fee into those game, some one who plays 10 hours a day, and dumps 10 grand in is always going to have more.
So I will go back to my orginal statement, all mmos minus Allods, Ryzom, and Istaria are pay 2 win. Allods, Ryzom, and Istaria are play 2 win, because you can't get anything more with money. Allods is a perfect one too, because there is a free 2 play server, go on the free 2 play server, and play 20 hours, and dump 10 grand into the cash shop, then go to the sub server, and play 20 hours, let me know which of your characters have more stuff, higher levels, better stats. Considering all MMOs are not skill based, and are item, level based.
Hey though, I can't really complain at least there are 3 games that aren't pay 2 win.
I believe they exist - I am yet to play a single game where you can buy armor and weapons in the cash shop that are far better than anything you can get in game.
I am yet to come across a game like that personally.
That's because no game works that way. They don't have dropped items then better items in a cash shop. They sell gold so you can buy the items. That's why all of these cash shops have alternate currencies. Better yet they just sell the item.
It doesn't matter if you can get it in the game. If someone just pays for everything and someone else earns it all by playing we still have a player who paid with a credit card for everything.
I understand and thats your definiton of P2W.
For me it isn't - as long as you can obtain cash shop items via gameplay (as in paying for them via in game gold on Auction House) - the game is not p2w for me.
P2W for me is simple - buy something in the cash shop that gives you stuff that is way better than anything in game and that you can NEVER obtain with normal gameplay
That is pay to win for me - as the ONLY way to get superior items is to pay real money.
Again since there is no defined P2W definition we all have different opinions on what it is
Well don't you think you should reevaluate your stance when your definition of P2W includes being able to spend as much as you want on a credit card and not be P2W?
I believe they exist - I am yet to play a single game where you can buy armor and weapons in the cash shop that are far better than anything you can get in game.
I am yet to come across a game like that personally.
That's because no game works that way. They don't have dropped items then better items in a cash shop. They sell gold so you can buy the items. That's why all of these cash shops have alternate currencies. Better yet they just sell the item.
It doesn't matter if you can get it in the game. If someone just pays for everything and someone else earns it all by playing we still have a player who paid with a credit card for everything.
I understand and thats your definiton of P2W.
For me it isn't - as long as you can obtain cash shop items via gameplay (as in paying for them via in game gold on Auction House) - the game is not p2w for me.
P2W for me is simple - buy something in the cash shop that gives you stuff that is way better than anything in game and that you can NEVER obtain with normal gameplay
That is pay to win for me - as the ONLY way to get superior items is to pay real money.
Again since there is no defined P2W definition we all have different opinions on what it is
Well don't you think you should reevaluate your stance when your definition of P2W includes being able to spend as much as you want on a credit card and not be P2W?
That isnt gonna happen, he has been defending Arche age as not pay 2 win, since it came out. Even when you could buy those stupid trees in the cash shop. Too him as he put it, no game is pay 2 win, because no game puts a sword of im gonna kill every one, in the cash shop for 30 grand.
I am the total opposite, all games are Pay 2 win, unless you can only pay 15 bucks for a sub, and everything in the game is earned by playing. If I wanted to keep up with the Jones, I would be doing it with my house, not my virtual world. But in all MMos, minus Alldos, Istaria, and ryzom, that is what it turns into for most people. They get into a credit card battle with the Jones or even a imaginary Jones, start gambling on the boxes, or buying all the Cosmetic stuff, going to player auction sites, to buy the best accounts, running 20 accounts at once, ect ect ect.......
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EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I also see Star Citizen becoming the next big P2W game. Ships like the $200 Constellation with weapons out the ying-yang and its own personal fighter will crush anyone who did not drop $200 into the game. Then there are even bigger ships to will dominate that. CIG is in a pickle, they either tick off their whales by making these ships somewhat achievable in the game or they let the whales dominate the game while everyone else leaves. They say they will stop selling ships when the game launches but that is a complete lie and will never happen. They found a license to print money with ship sales and they are never going away. Making these ships attainable for the average player using just game play will take away from that money printing machine.
To be P2W a game must sell things that either are winning or make winning easier (make it require less skill). Almost no F2P MMORPGs do that. Conveniences and cosmetics are commonly sold, but power increases are so rare that even after several threads on this topic I still couldn't name a single specific MMORPG that was P2W.
People sure enjoy flinging around rhetoric blindly though!
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
2. Anything by Aeria Games (at least all of their games are different)
3. Anything from Perfect World Entertainment
4. then anything named in this thread (especially since most of them are different levels of subjectively P2W, I know many people who would say Archeage or Eve are only "semi-P2w")
5. and lastly anything that only sells conveniences but for some reason some people still call that P2W (sorry, but buying xp potions and bag slots IS NOT P2W, see 1-3 for what is.)
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
You can pay enough money to enchant your armor/weapon to have almost 100% damage reduction/dodge versus any particular class, effectively not getting hit by them. Additionally, you can pay to enchant your gear to almost 100% extra critical damage+crit chance or just raw damage versus any particular class, effectively one shooting that class with a single crit and even regular hit. You cannot do that without the cash shop because those enchanting stones break when they fail and they fail a lot. The cash shop gives you 100% success rate.
Also Skills level up by reading books with extremely low success rate as well, and one book per day. Again, the cash shop gives you 100% success rate to level up your skills + you can read 2 books per day. A skill at max level hits like a truck even if you are low level. But its virtually impossible to max skills without cash shop because with every skill level you need an extra book (for skill lvl 2 you need 1 book, for lvl 3 need 2..., for level 20 needs 19 books, etc.).
There are more p2w things in the game, but those are the worst. I will never forget a polish dude playing a lightning mage and killing everyone in the open world pvp. People from 3 factions, everyone ganking him and he wiped the floor with them, every day, every time. Im talking 50+ people against 1 in open pvp.
It doesn't matter if you can get it in the game. If someone just pays for everything and someone else earns it all by playing we still have a player who paid with a credit card for everything.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If such a thing is even possible.
Someone with just 3 months in skills could still school you....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
So what ever you want to say to keep your self playing them I guess is what it comes down to, or maybe it is something along the lines of people need to some way to prove to them selves, it isn't a advantage. But no matter how you look at it, if you want to be logical, and critical think about it. Some one who dumps large sums of money into any of those games always has more. Yeah it might not matter, because you are happy with what ever you are doing in the game, but it is still pay 2 win. Because if you just play 2 hours a day, and only dump a sub fee into those game, some one who plays 10 hours a day, and dumps 10 grand in is always going to have more.
So I will go back to my orginal statement, all mmos minus Allods, Ryzom, and Istaria are pay 2 win. Allods, Ryzom, and Istaria are play 2 win, because you can't get anything more with money. Allods is a perfect one too, because there is a free 2 play server, go on the free 2 play server, and play 20 hours, and dump 10 grand into the cash shop, then go to the sub server, and play 20 hours, let me know which of your characters have more stuff, higher levels, better stats. Considering all MMOs are not skill based, and are item, level based.
Hey though, I can't really complain at least there are 3 games that aren't pay 2 win.
I am the total opposite, all games are Pay 2 win, unless you can only pay 15 bucks for a sub, and everything in the game is earned by playing. If I wanted to keep up with the Jones, I would be doing it with my house, not my virtual world. But in all MMos, minus Alldos, Istaria, and ryzom, that is what it turns into for most people. They get into a credit card battle with the Jones or even a imaginary Jones, start gambling on the boxes, or buying all the Cosmetic stuff, going to player auction sites, to buy the best accounts, running 20 accounts at once, ect ect ect.......