Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

What Games Belong on the Mount Rushmore of MMOs?

The user and all related content has been deleted.

거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












«13

Comments

  • ceratop001ceratop001 Member RarePosts: 1,594
    Just wow you did it. I would like to thank the Academy and..

    OK.

    Top 4.

    1. UO

    2. Lotro.

    3. EQ

    4. Rift before it went Free 2 Fail with Storm Legion.
     
  • wandericawanderica Member UncommonPosts: 371
    edited July 2016
    Cool question.  I think many of us can agree that WoW, EQ, and UO belong there for obvious reasons.  It's that 4th spot that's up for grabs.  Even though I never played it more than just in passing, I have to toss my vote in for DAoC simply for what it did for PvP in MMOs.  DAoC's PvP system hasn't been replicated since, even though some have come close.

    And man.  That WoW alpha picture.  Spartan even by vanilla standards.  Really takes me back.


  • k61977k61977 Member EpicPosts: 1,527
    edited July 2016
    I would have to say starts with the first actual MMO I played that wasn't a MUD which would go like:

    1.  UO
    2.  EQ
    3.  WOW
    4.  Lineage

    I look at these games as the games that really started the MMO genre.
  • Viper482Viper482 Member LegendaryPosts: 4,101
    Nothing made after WoW, that is for sure. 
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 10,020
    Just wow you did it. I would like to thank the Academy and..

    OK.

    Top 4.

    1. UO

    2. Lotro.

    3. EQ

    4. Rift before it went Free 2 Fail with Storm Legion.
    Rift? That was a blatant ripoff of WAR and WoW......That game has absolutely no place in a MT Rushmore of MMOs
  • SanisarSanisar Member UncommonPosts: 135
    edited July 2016
    UO, WoW, and EQ are obvious and I don't think they can seriously be debated in significance even if they weren't your cup of tea.

    The fourth spot will come down to opinion and preference since I don't see a clear game that is that far above the rest of the MMO space.  My personal vote is DAoC by quite a big margin, but I understand not everyone played that game or even likes PvP (RvR).  I think other reasonable contenders are EVE, lineage I/II, SWG, and Guild Wars.  Whatever you pick the fourth game will be labeled a niche game by most; the first three are the definitive mainstream games with the biggest impact on the market/genre.
    Post edited by Sanisar on
  • ceratop001ceratop001 Member RarePosts: 1,594
    edited July 2016
    Just wow you did it. I would like to thank the Academy and..

    OK.

    Top 4.

    1. UO

    2. Lotro.

    3. EQ

    4. Rift before it went Free 2 Fail with Storm Legion.
    Rift? That was a blatant ripoff of WAR and WoW......That game has absolutely no place in a MT Rushmore of MMOs
    I'm sorry I thought it was better than WoW at the time period. I know it is controversial but that's my pick. The mixing of 3 classes was awesome in my opinion and allowed a lot of freedom. You could spend years trying to make the perfect build. I know a lot would disagree, but pre storm legion it was a phenomenal game. Also, that's my Mt. Rushmore and you could pick whatever you want. Everybody's Rushmore should be based on experience and gained knowledge you might have. I once saw a interview of Dr. J and they asked him his Mt. Rushmore and his was people he played with that other people would never pick. He said that's my Mt. Rushmore and everyone should have their own unique picks.

    Also, I personally invented most of the Assassins builds and Saboteur builds. Along with the Night-blade builds. I am perhaps at that time period the most copied player ever. My macros are still used today, and are based on my early ones. That is why it is My Mt. Rushmore.
     
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536
    DAoC seems like a pretty fair.. Actually, I'd say it belongs third, with WoW fourth seeing as how it was mostly a much more polished combo of EQ and DAoC.


  • RattenmannRattenmann Member UncommonPosts: 613
    Yeah, i agree with DAoC for the 4th pick here. Still the best PvP game in my books.
    The other 3 are as obvious as it gets, nothing modern can even come close enough to be considered.

    MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.

    Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?

  • DrunkWolfDrunkWolf Member RarePosts: 1,701
    UO

    Asherons Call

    EQ

    DaoC

    EVE
  • TyranusPrimeTyranusPrime Member UncommonPosts: 306
    Assuming that it is limited to 4, I guess I would have to go with Ultima Online, Everquest, World of Warcraft, and Star Wars Galaxies..

    Each one truly acted as a milestone in gaming history.. (Was very hard not to include Tabula Rasa and City of Heroes.. but yeah, I stand by the above 4)

    ..because we're gamers, damn it!! - William Massachusetts (Log Horizon)

  • ReizlaReizla Member RarePosts: 4,092
    For me the 4 are:
    Lineage - still hot in Korea and the 1st political sandbox around
    EVE online - for obvious reasons...
    EverQuest - being the 'first WoW clone', even before WoW was made :D
    TradeWars 2002 - not an actual MMORPG, but it was one of the first online games around
  • H0urg1assH0urg1ass Member EpicPosts: 2,380
    1. UO - Don't think anyone can dispute this one.  Helped define everything that came afterwards.
    2. EQ - Redefined the MMO landscape into the very kernel that the majority of games we play today still resemble.
    3. EVE - This was such a complete departure from all other MMO's that it deserves a spot.  Nothing at all plays like EVE.
    4. SWG - Gave us living, breathing worlds and the tools and skills to shape those worlds.  No MMORPG has handed the reigns over to the players as much as SWG.
  • cameltosiscameltosis Member LegendaryPosts: 3,847
    Its a difficult question really. Not being all that familiar with Mount Rushmore (or more specifically, the four presidents) I assume that each president was chosen for their contributions to the United States. 

    So, with that in mind, what four MMOs have contributed the most to the betterment of the MMO genre (*in the west)?

    1) UO - Like others have said, can't really debate this one. Gave us so much that hadn't been seen before. 

    2) EQ - Like UO, brought so much to the genre. Think it was the first 3d mmo? Kinda close call with Asherons Call as both released same year, both themeparky 3d fantasy MMORPGs, but think EQ edges it.

    3) DAoC - This game gave us large scale, meaningful pvp and was a big departure from the usual questing / grinding / leveling trope. 

    4) SWG - I really struggled to decide between this and EvE. Both aimed at creating thriving communities in a sandbox approach. EvE nearly won my vote for 4th spot due to its longevity and the fact it was set in space (a big departure from the norm), however, EvE doesn't seem to have influenced other games much. I feel SWG has had a greater effect on the MMO genre than EvE has, though I can't really put my finger on what. 



    I left WoW off the list because I don't think it has really brought much to the genre. It was basically just a polished version of existing games, accessible to the masses with a good marketing budget. It certainly brought more people into the genre, but not new ideas. In some ways, WoW seriously hurt the genre as investors just wanted WoW clones and wouldn't invest in other ideas, resulting in nearly a decade of stagnation. 
    Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 6,057
    Sanisar said:
    UO, WoW, and EQ are obvious and I don't think they can seriously be debated in significance even if they weren't your cup of tea.

    The fourth spot will come down to opinion and preference since I don't see a clear game that is that far above the rest of the MMO space.  My personal vote is DAoC by quite a big margin, but I understand not everyone played that game or even likes PvP (RvR).  I think other reasonable contenders are EVE, lineage I/II, SWG, and Guild Wars.  Whatever you pick the fourth game will be labeled a niche game by most; the first three are the definitive mainstream games with the biggest impact on the market/genre.
    That's my thinking as well.  I never played DAoC but I'm very aware of it's influence on the genre.  Although no one has been able to match it's RvR content apparently.
  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 6,057
    Its a difficult question really. Not being all that familiar with Mount Rushmore (or more specifically, the four presidents) I assume that each president was chosen for their contributions to the United States. 

    So, with that in mind, what four MMOs have contributed the most to the betterment of the MMO genre (*in the west)?

    1) UO - Like others have said, can't really debate this one. Gave us so much that hadn't been seen before. 

    2) EQ - Like UO, brought so much to the genre. Think it was the first 3d mmo? Kinda close call with Asherons Call as both released same year, both themeparky 3d fantasy MMORPGs, but think EQ edges it.

    3) DAoC - This game gave us large scale, meaningful pvp and was a big departure from the usual questing / grinding / leveling trope. 

    4) SWG - I really struggled to decide between this and EvE. Both aimed at creating thriving communities in a sandbox approach. EvE nearly won my vote for 4th spot due to its longevity and the fact it was set in space (a big departure from the norm), however, EvE doesn't seem to have influenced other games much. I feel SWG has had a greater effect on the MMO genre than EvE has, though I can't really put my finger on what. 



    I left WoW off the list because I don't think it has really brought much to the genre. It was basically just a polished version of existing games, accessible to the masses with a good marketing budget. It certainly brought more people into the genre, but not new ideas. In some ways, WoW seriously hurt the genre as investors just wanted WoW clones and wouldn't invest in other ideas, resulting in nearly a decade of stagnation. 
    WOW is simply the most influential to almost all MMOs released after it.  It also delivered polished PVP and PVE.  You sound like a hater.

    SWG was a failure in every way.  they had the IP to make an amazing MMO and totally borked it up.  No space combat or way to start as a jedi/sith at launch?  They could have beated WOW to the mass market appeal but failed terribly.
  • baphametbaphamet Member RarePosts: 3,311
    it's laughable people left wow off their list when talking about "mount Rushmore of mmo's"

    UO
    EQ
    Daoc
    wow

    those are the "big 4" of mmo's IMO




  • MagnusAlanMagnusAlan Member UncommonPosts: 13
    I would go for either EVE, because even though I personally hate it, it was very revolutionary.  Otherwise I would go for Legends of Terris.  Terris was one of a multitude of MUDs out there in the late 90s, but it got a lot of mainstream attention in the UK and then in the US after AOL licensed it and started advertising it.
  • cameltosiscameltosis Member LegendaryPosts: 3,847
    Its a difficult question really. Not being all that familiar with Mount Rushmore (or more specifically, the four presidents) I assume that each president was chosen for their contributions to the United States. 

    So, with that in mind, what four MMOs have contributed the most to the betterment of the MMO genre (*in the west)?

    1) UO - Like others have said, can't really debate this one. Gave us so much that hadn't been seen before. 

    2) EQ - Like UO, brought so much to the genre. Think it was the first 3d mmo? Kinda close call with Asherons Call as both released same year, both themeparky 3d fantasy MMORPGs, but think EQ edges it.

    3) DAoC - This game gave us large scale, meaningful pvp and was a big departure from the usual questing / grinding / leveling trope. 

    4) SWG - I really struggled to decide between this and EvE. Both aimed at creating thriving communities in a sandbox approach. EvE nearly won my vote for 4th spot due to its longevity and the fact it was set in space (a big departure from the norm), however, EvE doesn't seem to have influenced other games much. I feel SWG has had a greater effect on the MMO genre than EvE has, though I can't really put my finger on what. 



    I left WoW off the list because I don't think it has really brought much to the genre. It was basically just a polished version of existing games, accessible to the masses with a good marketing budget. It certainly brought more people into the genre, but not new ideas. In some ways, WoW seriously hurt the genre as investors just wanted WoW clones and wouldn't invest in other ideas, resulting in nearly a decade of stagnation. 
    WOW is simply the most influential to almost all MMOs released after it.  It also delivered polished PVP and PVE.  You sound like a hater.

    SWG was a failure in every way.  they had the IP to make an amazing MMO and totally borked it up.  No space combat or way to start as a jedi/sith at launch?  They could have beated WOW to the mass market appeal but failed terribly.
    Its not that I'm a hater, I readily recognise WoW as the most successful MMORPG of all time by a significant margin and at the time of its release, it was easily the best themepark in existence. 

    However, WoW didn't really do anything new. It took ideas already established in the genre, polished them and made them more accessible, then marketed the shit out of it. The combat, questing, pve, pvp etc....all had been done before in similar ways, just not as polished or accessible to the masses. There's nothing wrong with that approach, it worked very well in comparison to its competition.  


    But, in the context of the question (mount rushmore) you have to consider what WoW brought to the genre, what positives did it bring? What new ideas did it introduce that have made the genre better? What features in WoW had never been seen before, and how does that compare to other MMOs?

    SWG may have been a commercial failure by comparison (though, it was still profitable for SOE) but it introduced a lot of new features, a new way of playing, a new concept of what an MMO could be. We may not have seen any clones of SWG, but we have seen the concepts and philosophies it embodied influence many MMOs since. I agree that if SWG had been implemented better (i.e. be polished and accessible) it could have beaten WoW to mass market appeal. 
    Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman

  • ForgrimmForgrimm Member EpicPosts: 3,069
    Its not that I'm a hater, I readily recognise WoW as the most successful MMORPG of all time by a significant margin and at the time of its release, it was easily the best themepark in existence. 

    However, WoW didn't really do anything new. It took ideas already established in the genre, polished them and made them more accessible, then marketed the shit out of it. The combat, questing, pve, pvp etc....all had been done before in similar ways, just not as polished or accessible to the masses. There's nothing wrong with that approach, it worked very well in comparison to its competition.  

    But, in the context of the question (mount rushmore) you have to consider what WoW brought to the genre, what positives did it bring? What new ideas did it introduce that have made the genre better? What features in WoW had never been seen before, and how does that compare to other MMOs?

    SWG may have been a commercial failure by comparison (though, it was still profitable for SOE) but it introduced a lot of new features, a new way of playing, a new concept of what an MMO could be. We may not have seen any clones of SWG, but we have seen the concepts and philosophies it embodied influence many MMOs since. I agree that if SWG had been implemented better (i.e. be polished and accessible) it could have beaten WoW to mass market appeal. 
    WoW is to mmo's what Kleenex is to tissues, what Xerox is to photocopies. It's the iconic product of the genre. Also, considering the history of Mt. Rushmore:

    Between October 4, 1927, and October 31, 1941, Gutzon Borglum and 400 workers[16] sculpted the colossal 60 foot (18 m) high carvings ofU.S. presidents George WashingtonThomas JeffersonTheodore Roosevelt, and Abraham Lincoln to represent the first 130 years of American history. These presidents were selected by Borglum because of their role in preserving the Republic and expanding its territory

    If there was ever an mmo that expanded the "territory" so to speak, it would be WoW. So in the Mt. Rushmore scheme of things, WoW is without a doubt the front-runner, while SWG was a niche game that ultimately failed commercially.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 12,262
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    1. Eve Online
    2. SWG
    3. Planetside 1
    4. WoW
    5. Everquest 1

    Eve online, is a game that seems to defy time, it continually evolves, and yet somehow remains unchanged, just, has more, graphically it has improved, numerous times over the years, showing that games cannot afford to remain locked in the past.
    SWG, because, the game had so much promise, so many good things, but it was a classic case of if only they had worked on the game they already had, than trying to turn it into something else, then maybe things would have worked out differently, if only.
    Planetside 1, because before they brought in the BFR's it was awesome, and as an engineer, it totally rocked. damn you SOE why did you consistently break the things i liked!
    WoW, well its a game that needs no introduction, it is the 500lb gorilla in the room, you either loved it, or you hated it, luckily, a hell of a lot of people loved it, but panda's and were's /facepalm.
    Everquest 1, played it for years, my favourite classes were monk, wizard and beastlord, sitting there watching the loading screen was for me the beginning of the fun, it was new, it was awesome, it was hellishly addictive, and it was so much better than EQ2, SOE were nothing if not consistent. O.o
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    UO
    EQ
    WOW
    SWG

    There's no arguing about the first three, but I've included SWG for being the first (and last ?) 3D MMORPG to try and create a "virtual world", where certain character builds were incapable of any really meaningful combat roles (entertainers and crafters mainly).
  • TanemundTanemund Member UncommonPosts: 154
    edited July 2016
    To me "Mount Rushmore" means the game had a profound impact on future MMOs and the direction the industry of MMO production took.

    Ultima Online - It showed the world that people would play an MMO and pay to do it.  It established the baseline of what an MMO world would look like and function.  The father of them all.  Still chugging along. 

    Ever Quest - It formalized the overall structure of MMOs.  Elements of it became the standard building blocks of future MMOs.  Things like level based progression, Time-sinks and the Trinity class structure (Healer, Tank and Damage Per Second) became mainstays of the MMO world.  Almost everything after was a copy of or a reaction to the mechanics of this game.  Still chugging along.

    World of Warcraft - It popularized the MMO and made it mainstream.  Even people who don't play MMOs know about World of Warcraft.  It became a part of Pop Culture like nothing before or since.  It also gave birth to the Theme Park MMO phenomena.  It made MMOs accessible to a broader audience of gamers and grew that audience beyond the just former pen and paper RPG players who had access to the internet.  It was the first game accessible to the "casual MMO player".  Finally it blew MMO subscription numbers up by two orders of magnitude.  Even its most famous free-shard had more people on it than most game's subscription numbers.  Still chugging along.

    Eve - It broke every rule and got away with it.  Its unique in the MMO world .   No classes, one server, no level progression, almost no lore and almost no avatar.  The player driven economy and politics are the stuff of legend in the playing community.  Even if you never played you know about the political intrigue that went on in this game and the long term plots that were spun out against the backdrop of outer space (which is unique in its own way).  Never before or since has community been so important in a computer game.  To me this game is like the band "The Who".  Its so unique and visionary that it actually has intimidating as no one else has ever tried to copy it.  Just as no other band in the history of time sounds like "The Who" no other MMO is like Eve.  Like "The Who" its almost too cool for the room.  (Personally I don't like "The Who" or "Eve" but I have to give them both their due as strange and wonderful).  Still chugging along.

    Honorable mentions:

    Dungeons and Dragons Online - It showed the MMO world that subscriptions weren't the only way.  It was the bellweather for the Free to Play uprising.  A seismic shift in the way to monetize an MMO experience and allowed several games that were in danger of closing to continue to survive lagging subscription numbers.  However it wasn't unique in any other way.  It gets points for nostalgia in that it enabled so many of us Nerds to experience the pen and paper RPG first hand, but beyond the F2P model and the nostalgia trip the rest of the game was pretty run of the mill.  Still chugging along.

    Dark Age of Camelot - While everyone points to RvR as it's great contribution, I'd say that its true innovations of this game have almost been lost in time and translation.  In a lot of ways it was a conscious rejection of what had gone before and in that rejection lies its greatness.  First, the game was conceived and dedicated with the idea of minimizing griefing and ganking.  To do that the developers divided the PvE and PvP areas, minimizing the contact between combatants to designated PvP areas and not allowing the members of one realm to speak to another.  Second, it based combat on a realm theory rather than on a PvP theory.  Realm vrs. Realm was originally about realm benefits like bonuses for keep ownership and relic ownership.  The later introduction of realm point rewards (individual rewards for participation in RvR) was the death of the "for the Realm" feel of frontier combat.  Finally, it introduced the idea of three separate and distinct realms with their own separate and distinct classes that were, in effect, like playing three different games.  Why is it not on my Mount Rushmore? Two reasons.  First with regards to game play it followed the EQ model almost exactly.  Second it introduced the term "Endgame" into MMOs and, in my opinion, MMOs should have no end.  My first MMO and I loved it.  Probably fifth on my list.  I also have to downgrade it based on the fact that, in my opinion, the freeshards have a better version of the game than its current iteration. Still chugging along.

    City of Heroes/Villians - Cryptic's first attempt at an MMO was probably its best.  The dev group did two things really well.  They worked on one thing at a time and got it right and they communicated almost at a one on one basis with the community.  All that went away when NCSoft bought it, just like the game did.  The reason I can't put it on my Mount Rushmore, even though I loved the game as my second MMO and came back to it often, is that most of its innovations were really just skins, fluff and convenience items.  Otherwise it really did nothing new.  Also it loses points for being dead as a door nail. 

    My two coppers.  YMMV

    Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising.

  • psychosiz1psychosiz1 Member UncommonPosts: 200
    My choices are based upon games I spent the most time in, not necessarily favorites of others

    1.  Guild Wars
    2.  Final Fantasy XI
    3.  Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic
    4.  The Secret World

    Honorable Mentions
    EQ1, SWG, FFXIV, and City of Heroes
Sign In or Register to comment.