It's the combat...

somersaultsam

I decided to jump back into Wildstar, and there is a lot to like about it; the graphics (perhaps minus some of the excesses of flashing text); the environment, the fun, the housing... I can even put up with the elements I find weak, such as the generic quests and poor quest pathing. 

But it is the combat I cannot stand. When I was playing it again I just found myself wishing they had gone full TPS... I genuinely think that one change would have resulted in a successful game. 

Xiaoki

Yeah, it definitely didn't have anything to do with the fact that at launch pretty much every single aspect of the entire game was bugged or broken in some way.

Or that their solution to fixing said problems was to release more and more content that was just as buggy and even broke the existing content more.

Yeah, that definitely had nothing to do with it.

Oh, yeah, it was the combat. Sure.

goboygo

Odd I wasn't aware of all the completely broken and buggy systems, everything I ever did in the game worked fine., It ran poorly in pre-release but was optimized later.  But for me me too it was the combat that eventually drove me nuts.

klash2def

Well i thought they had some good ideas about the combat just not executed properly. My issue with WS not just combat, but the congestion style questing. All the quest seem to run into or overlap each other and have no real explanation of why you are doing them.  A very congested experience with the questing for me. I lost interest very quickly when i realized i had 10-15 quests in a log that I had no clue where to go to start them or why I had them in the first place. 

MightyUnclean

Xiaoki said:

Yeah, it definitely didn't have anything to do with the fact that at launch pretty much every single aspect of the entire game was bugged or broken in some way.

Or that their solution to fixing said problems was to release more and more content that was just as buggy and even broke the existing content more.

Yeah, that definitely had nothing to do with it.

Oh, yeah, it was the combat. Sure.

The sarcasm is strong with this one.  I haven't encountered that much sarcasm since alternative kids in the 90's.  I never encountered any serious bugs.

Zero-relaxation combat killed the game for me.  That's what scares me about Crowfall.  They sited WildStar as one of their main inspirations for combat.

Hellidol

MightyUnclean said:

Xiaoki said:

Yeah, it definitely didn't have anything to do with the fact that at launch pretty much every single aspect of the entire game was bugged or broken in some way.

Or that their solution to fixing said problems was to release more and more content that was just as buggy and even broke the existing content more.

Yeah, that definitely had nothing to do with it.

Oh, yeah, it was the combat. Sure.

The sarcasm is strong with this one.  I haven't encountered that much sarcasm since alternative kids in the 90's.  I never encountered any serious bugs.

Zero-relaxation combat killed the game for me.  That's what scares me about Crowfall.  They sited WildStar as one of their main inspirations for combat.

Wildstar combat is pretty good, people that done like it might not FPS games or are wanting to play a game they can stay rooted (wow) and cast stuff. Wildstar puts the combat to the real test and anyone that play Crowfall for ten minutes would know that the combat is just improved upon compared to wildstar.

I wasnt the best at the pvp but the pve i loved alot.

MightyUnclean

Hellidol said:

MightyUnclean said:

Xiaoki said:

Yeah, it definitely didn't have anything to do with the fact that at launch pretty much every single aspect of the entire game was bugged or broken in some way.

Or that their solution to fixing said problems was to release more and more content that was just as buggy and even broke the existing content more.

Yeah, that definitely had nothing to do with it.

Oh, yeah, it was the combat. Sure.

The sarcasm is strong with this one.  I haven't encountered that much sarcasm since alternative kids in the 90's.  I never encountered any serious bugs.

Zero-relaxation combat killed the game for me.  That's what scares me about Crowfall.  They sited WildStar as one of their main inspirations for combat.

Wildstar combat is pretty good, people that done like it might not FPS games or are wanting to play a game they can stay rooted (wow) and cast stuff. Wildstar puts the combat to the real test and anyone that play Crowfall for ten minutes would know that the combat is just improved upon compared to wildstar.

I wasnt the best at the pvp but the pve i loved alot.

How is it improved?  Even more twitchy and spammy?  Even more red shapes on the ground?  Combat in WildStar was a spaz-fest and after reading through thread after thread on why the game failed, I firmly believe that the combat style was a contributing factor.

Octagon7711

Yep, I could never enjoy the game because of the combat.  Tried returning a few times but no joy.

Alverant

somersaultsam said:

I decided to jump back into Wildstar, and there is a lot to like about it; the graphics (perhaps minus some of the excesses of flashing text); the environment, the fun, the housing... I can even put up with the elements I find weak, such as the generic quests and poor quest pathing. 

But it is the combat I cannot stand. When I was playing it again I just found myself wishing they had gone full TPS... I genuinely think that one change would have resulted in a successful game. 

I only tried WoW for a little bit so maybe I'm more generous when it comes to the quests. I found some of them to be interesting and different from other games I've played. The combat can be a bit of a downer since it's easy to accidentally get more agro than you anticipated. My first time playing I picked a spellslinger which killed my interest fast since it had fewer HP and I picked up more baddies than I could handle. After it went FTP I went back and tried an Engineer which was a lot more fun and now I play a stalker and enjoy that too. So maybe it was my choice of characters that was the problem. Still combat is a bit of a turn off for me since it's open world and baddies can respawn before you're ready.

Suddenly getting a Challenge when you don't want it is a big pain too. Oh and the runes feel useless since you're always upgrading your equipment. If they could make that independent of your stuff I'd be more inclined to use them.

Albatroes

Honestly, I hated the combat when the game first came out since it was trying to be a tera style thing without the camera and such. More recently, its gotten a bit more bareable since you can alter the camera to be more like tera but its still awkward in a lot of areas. That isn't really the reason keeping me from playing. Its future is too uncertain and I dont like wasting time on stuff that will probably shut down. This game honestly would've been better if it had a more experienced team. It definitely was given enough time to be a good game, just the amateur bugs and choices weren't addressed fast enough and still remain in some areas.

Nitth

somersaultsam said:

I decided to jump back into Wildstar, and there is a lot to like about it; the graphics (perhaps minus some of the excesses of flashing text); the environment, the fun, the housing... I can even put up with the elements I find weak, such as the generic quests and poor quest pathing. 

But it is the combat I cannot stand. When I was playing it again I just found myself wishing they had gone full TPS... I genuinely think that one change would have resulted in a successful game. 

Textbook case of people wanting the safe and familiar but demanding innovation.

Hellidol

MightyUnclean said:

Hellidol said:

MightyUnclean said:

Xiaoki said:

Yeah, it definitely didn't have anything to do with the fact that at launch pretty much every single aspect of the entire game was bugged or broken in some way.

Or that their solution to fixing said problems was to release more and more content that was just as buggy and even broke the existing content more.

Yeah, that definitely had nothing to do with it.

Oh, yeah, it was the combat. Sure.

The sarcasm is strong with this one.  I haven't encountered that much sarcasm since alternative kids in the 90's.  I never encountered any serious bugs.

Zero-relaxation combat killed the game for me.  That's what scares me about Crowfall.  They sited WildStar as one of their main inspirations for combat.

Wildstar combat is pretty good, people that done like it might not FPS games or are wanting to play a game they can stay rooted (wow) and cast stuff. Wildstar puts the combat to the real test and anyone that play Crowfall for ten minutes would know that the combat is just improved upon compared to wildstar.

I wasnt the best at the pvp but the pve i loved alot.

How is it improved?  Even more twitchy and spammy?  Even more red shapes on the ground?  Combat in WildStar was a spaz-fest and after reading through thread after thread on why the game failed, I firmly believe that the combat style was a contributing factor.

Then you really didnt play the game, i got to raid end game often and i can tell you only someone that hasnt even seen max level would call it a spaz-fest. Each his own, I like that combat stlye, tab target needs to die already.

MightyUnclean

Hellidol said:

MightyUnclean said:

Hellidol said:

MightyUnclean said:

Xiaoki said:

Yeah, it definitely didn't have anything to do with the fact that at launch pretty much every single aspect of the entire game was bugged or broken in some way.

Or that their solution to fixing said problems was to release more and more content that was just as buggy and even broke the existing content more.

Yeah, that definitely had nothing to do with it.

Oh, yeah, it was the combat. Sure.

The sarcasm is strong with this one.  I haven't encountered that much sarcasm since alternative kids in the 90's.  I never encountered any serious bugs.

Zero-relaxation combat killed the game for me.  That's what scares me about Crowfall.  They sited WildStar as one of their main inspirations for combat.

Wildstar combat is pretty good, people that done like it might not FPS games or are wanting to play a game they can stay rooted (wow) and cast stuff. Wildstar puts the combat to the real test and anyone that play Crowfall for ten minutes would know that the combat is just improved upon compared to wildstar.

I wasnt the best at the pvp but the pve i loved alot.

How is it improved?  Even more twitchy and spammy?  Even more red shapes on the ground?  Combat in WildStar was a spaz-fest and after reading through thread after thread on why the game failed, I firmly believe that the combat style was a contributing factor.

Then you really didnt play the game, i got to raid end game often and i can tell you only someone that hasnt even seen max level would call it a spaz-fest. Each his own, I like that combat stlye, tab target needs to die already.

Oh I see, since you're a hardcore raider, your opinion carries more weight than mine.  That kind of thinking is yet another reason this game flopped so hard.

bcbully

Nah man the game should have been scraped. NCsoft was in too deep with carbine though.

GeezerGamer

Combat? Not sure to be honest. I tried the game and just hated it. Everything I did just irritated me while I was playing. I definitely spent more time downloading and installing that I did in the game.

Solar_Prophet

I thought the fact that the game was a buggy, unoptimized mess was why it failed miserably. Or perhaps it was the insistence of Carbine to cater to a niche crowd, and openly mock players who had reasonable concerns about such an approach?

Don't get me wrong, the combat is terrible. Even a 'tank' has to hop around like a one legged man in a minefield or die almost instantly. It's incredibly obvious it was inspired by an alcohol fueled DDR session with a bit of Guitar Hero thrown in. However, it was one of many factors which contributed to the game's rapid downfall and continued rapid progress toward sunset. 

peanutabc

combat was fine, was their attitude that 40 man raiding was still relevant and "hardcore" mmorpg niche. It actually had dungeons that were somewhat difficult  and required players to actually play good.

Tiamat64

Everyone in this thread appears to have their own reasons why Wildstar failed.

I personally suspect that the true reason it failed was ALL of them.

For some, the combat sucked or was too exhausting.

For others the optimization sucked.

For others the 40 man raiding sucked.

Etc etc etc.

Wildstar is that game that has something for everyone!  To hate.

nennafir

peanutabc said:

combat was fine, was their attitude that 40 man raiding was still relevant and "hardcore" mmorpg niche. It actually had dungeons that were somewhat difficult  and required players to actually play good.

+1

I thought the combat was very fun, once I installed a couple of mods to make it true TPS.

It was the 1337 attitude of the dev team that irritated me.  As others do, I recall devs openly mocking casuals on their forums.  In what alternate reality is it okay for devs to openly mock players of their game?  They dug their own grave as far as I am concerned.

ConstantineMerus

DMKano said:

For me the turnoff remains the telegraphs - just can't get used to everything telegraphing so much.

If disabling them didn't put me at such a huge disadvantage I'd be all over that.

For me as well. PvP looked like players were just jumping around on a flashy floor of a discotheque from the 80s. 

rojoArcueid

nennafir said:

peanutabc said:

combat was fine, was their attitude that 40 man raiding was still relevant and "hardcore" mmorpg niche. It actually had dungeons that were somewhat difficult  and required players to actually play good.

+1

I thought the combat was very fun, once I installed a couple of mods to make it true TPS.

It was the 1337 attitude of the dev team that irritated me.  As others do, I recall devs openly mocking casuals on their forums.  In what alternate reality is it okay for devs to openly mock players of their game?  They dug their own grave as far as I am concerned.

I see some contradiction here. If you had to install mods to make it a true TPS then no, the combat was not very fun or fine at all. You had to fix it yourself with mods.

rojoArcueid

ConstantineMerus said:

DMKano said:

For me the turnoff remains the telegraphs - just can't get used to everything telegraphing so much.

If disabling them didn't put me at such a huge disadvantage I'd be all over that.

For me as well. PvP looked like players were just jumping around on a flashy floor of a discotheque from the 80s. 

Telegraphs are part of the bad combat design. To give you an example with two games from the same mother company (WS and GW2), in WS you cannot avoid getting hit even with a well timed dodge if you stay inside the telegraph. On the other hand, in GW2 you can stay inside the telegraph(AoE area) and still avoid getting hit with a well timed dodge. In WS you get hit by the telegraph, not by the actual weapon. That is ridiculous.

I love WS's visuals but they dropped the ball big time with its combat.

Ghavrigg

I agree the combat is boring. But it is definitely not the sole reason for it failing, the questing and story were bland as shit, and it just felt weird overall while playing it, and nothing felt overly exciting that I didn't feel was done better in other games. Whether or not that's true is just opinion, was just a meh feeling all throughout to me.

Phry

It wasn't fun to play, tried it when it went f2p, stuck it out for nearly 3 hours even, i can imagine that Wildstars attrition rate at the start of the game was horrendous, i certainly had no desire to punish myself to that extent just to find out if the end game was any better, as chances are, it wouldn't have been.

RemyVorender

There are so many things not to like about Wildstar. Why stop at just the uninspired combat? 

- Poor writing (it's not that funny, cupcake)
- Screaming rainbow puke color scheme
- Yet another quest hub grinder
- No class customization
- meh....other stuff....blah blah. game is bad. 

Kunai_Vax

rojoArcueid said:

ConstantineMerus said:

DMKano said:

For me the turnoff remains the telegraphs - just can't get used to everything telegraphing so much.

If disabling them didn't put me at such a huge disadvantage I'd be all over that.

For me as well. PvP looked like players were just jumping around on a flashy floor of a discotheque from the 80s. 

Telegraphs are part of the bad combat design. To give you an example with two games from the same mother company (WS and GW2), in WS you cannot avoid getting hit even with a well timed dodge if you stay inside the telegraph. On the other hand, in GW2 you can stay inside the telegraph(AoE area) and still avoid getting hit with a well timed dodge. In WS you get hit by the telegraph, not by the actual weapon. That is ridiculous.

I love WS's visuals but they dropped the ball big time with its combat.

I made some suggestions on their forums a couple of months after the release when people were leaving in droves regarding their combat. GW2 got the telegraph combat right in my opinion.
Its not fun spending most of your time watching the ground for telegraphs, even more so when you have next nothing to avoid it. 
Alas none of our sugestions were ever listened to, even now more than a year later they havent listened to anything we suggested.