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Interesting clip about the demolition of the WTC
firemagic
Member Posts: 878
http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/july2005/060705controlleddemolition.htm
Watch until the end.
Since the government is supposed to be "by the people and for the people", I applaud the makers of this documentary for questioning the official line, as should all Americans.
I hope this promotes discussion rather than flames, although of course flames are unavoidable being as how children have net access.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
I've believed for the longest time now that it was all a set up to get the people of this country to support a war led by a president with no popular support. Until we the people get it through our thick heads that political leaders by and large are criminally minded, this sort of thing will keep happeneing to us.
If this is true, then why did Bin Laden admit responsiblity?
"Whoever controls the media controls the mind..-'Jim Morrison"
"When decorum is repression, the only dignity free men have is to speak out." ~Abbie Hoffman
its not true. people will make consipiracy out of anyting, and im all for alot of them. this one has been debunked so extremely well that there is noway to believe it.
http://www.facebook.com/murtb
http://www.facebook.com/murtb
I am all for questioning authority, but this just isn't true and it only makes slacker conspiracy theorists divert attention from the real people who did this, Islamic extremists who incidentally just hit London too. I'm sure those yahoos will find a way to say George Bush blew up the London buses too, and the Spanish subways too.
Stop wasting time and realize what we're all up against. The truth is scarier than all the conspiracy fiction.
Thanks for posting your completely empty and weightless counterargument which had nothing to do with the video referred to in this thread whatsoever. Did you watch it at all? Any comments on the content, which suggests very strongly that the WTC towers were subject to controlled demolitions?
Now could you explain, just as one particular detail, why Bush's brother Marvin would order that the sniffer dogs that routinely checked the WTC for explosive devices be prevented from doing their duty on the morning of September 11th in particular? Would you agree that such a detail should be of great interest to any right-minded American?
Simply saying something along the lines of "You are wrong and you just have to accept it", as yourself and others have done means precisely nothing, and you might need to bear that in mind before replying.
You obviously missed this part:
Thanks for attempting, and miserably failing, to engage in the debate.
Wanna try again?
What exactly do you think about Bush's brother ordering security to be lowered in the WTC on 9/11 of all days? Please, share your opinion with us, and this time try not to evade the question.
I don't consider this question to be anything approaching "semantics", and whether or not you do, I still request that you share your opinion.
Well, if that's what happened, then of course you got me. No reason for it.
It was pretty wierd watching that video, brings up so many emotions from that day. I almost got fired from my job that day I was so messed up, told my boss to F*** off and everything.
The video DOES bring up a ton of interesting points, all of which have been explained away by various new agencies, even 60 minutes had that special about debunking the conspiracy theories. I apologize for my first 2 posts, I can admit when I'm ignorant.
I still don't believe it 100% but damn it's creepy ain't it. Terrorists still suck, and they still flew planes into those buildings. May they burn in hell for all of eternity, anyone who took part in it. But after watching it a second time, I'm not as sure who anymore, maybe 60 minutes will watch it and do another special. Who can we trust?
"Who put this thing together? ME. Who do I trust? ME." Tony Montana, Scarface
i was out of the country due to return that morning..got stuck for 5 extra days and wasted alot of money i didnt want to
anyway about the dogs..theres someone, one person saying this. show me proof they were removed. show me proof the guy said it. show me proof the guy worked there. show me proof the dogs were usualy there, and show me proof bush's brother ordered them removed. you cant, the documentary cant(or would have) so its really all just made up garbage.
Yes, it may well be made up garbage, but discrediting one element of the clip does not disprove the whole of it.
Professionals and experts have consistently said that jet fuel in the quantities that hit the towers cannot reach the kind of temperatures required to melt steel to the point that would cause the collapse of the two WTC towers. Is that made up garbage too?
What did you make of the footage of explosions going off during the demolition of the towers? Made up garbage?
9/11 is defined as the cornerstone event that shaped not only US's foreign policy but also
its domestic policy through patriot act I & II.
It is not of my concern how many minds might react to such an event with same politically correct or incorrect view but how few might still be able to establish a verifiable link and make sense out of our justice system and our own conscience.
It is the essence of our justice system to question everything and let us exert our right to free enquiry.
If we stop asking questions, we might as well give up our other rights. That is, if such right wasn't a persistant illusion to begin with.
Under any circumstances, these basic rights should not be infringed.
As a response to the original poster, I have to admit that I would rather be willing to partake a discourse with an atheist or any non-conformist individual who challenges the establishment in seeking the truth than those ignorant blind sheeps, self-proclaimed religious "born-againite", false preachers who cast down the Truth to the ground, manufacture their own version of the truth, manipulate minds of countless many or prefer to seek the asylum of silence and comfort yet choose to mock those seeking free enquiry.
History only repeats itself as I'm looking through my own lense - I'm not willing to be pretentious beyond that.
I dare to say that I'm strongly inclined to believe that the following quotes are still relevant today.
Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know?
For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar. - Julius Caesar.
"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Hermann Goering, Nazi Luftwaffe Commander in Chief, president of the Reichstag.
"...the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily, and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously" - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf
its not our job to discredit rediculous conspiracy theories, its their job to prove it to us.
example... god is a pink flamingo with a bad haircut, disprove that please
as far as the professionals and experts, ive read tons of them scientificaly explaining how it did indeed happen, and have seen scientific simulations. that video seems to forgo the fact that you dont have to melt a steel structure to weaken it.
the explosions? you mean the inside floors falling and bringing the outside down with it ? even if you dont know thats what you mean, thats what you mean.
anyway i can make a strong case that we never went to the moon.
of course i can make another one saying we did.
and if your open minded, i can make a very strong case that we encountered something there which is the reason we dont go back(havent you ever wondered why we dont go there?)
its not our job to discredit rediculous conspiracy theories, its their job to prove it to us.
example... god is a pink flamingo with a bad haircut, disprove that please
as far as the professionals and experts, ive read tons of them scientificaly explaining how it did indeed happen, and have seen scientific simulations. that video seems to forgo the fact that you dont have to melt a steel structure to weaken it.
the explosions? you mean the inside floors falling and bringing the outside down with it ? even if you dont know thats what you mean, thats what you mean.
anyway i can make a strong case that we never went to the moon.
of course i can make another one saying we did.
and if your open minded, i can make a very strong case that we encountered something there which is the reason we dont go back(havent you ever wondered why we dont go there?)
So what you're saying is that whatever the argument is, it can be argued against, and you'll believe whatever you want to believe regardless. You and pretty much everyone else it seems.
The mistake you're making is that you're building shabby, incorrect "evidence" around your pre-decided, unbendable opinion.
You may well have seen "scientific" (except not actually scientific at all, in fact more diversionary) simulations, but I guarantee you they cannot and do not explain how the 250 degree temperatures generated by the burning fuel could melt steel that will withstand temperatures of 2000 degrees for several hours before buckling. Reference.
As far as the "inside floors falling and bringing the outside down with it" theory goes, the instances look isolated and uniform enough to be controlled explosions, but you're entitled to your opinion. I should point out though that saying "even if you dont know thats what you mean, thats what you mean." makes you sound more like an infant than a grown adult.
ok im an infant.
heres an infant about to blow a hole in your 'grown adult' belief in santa clause.(dont know why you had to resort to flaming, we were civil discusion before your rude comments)
Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F (not 250)
"Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°F,"
(Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction). "And at 1800° it is probably at less than 10 percent."
While the jet fuel was the catalyst for the WTC fires, the resulting inferno was intensified by the combustible material inside the buildings, including rugs, curtains, furniture and paper. NIST reports that pockets of fire hit 1832°F.
experts agree that for the towers to collapse, their steel frames didn't need to melt, they just had to lose some of their structural strength--and that required exposure to much less heat. "I have never seen melted steel in a building fire," says retired New York deputy fire chief Vincent Dunn, author of The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety. "But I've seen a lot of twisted, warped, bent and sagging steel. What happens is that the steel tries to expand at both ends, but when it can no longer expand, it sags and the surrounding concrete cracks."
a great deal of the spray-on fireproofing insulation was likely knocked off the steel beams that were in the path of the crashing jets, leaving the metal more vulnerable to the heat.
btw where did you get 250 degrees from, i grill steak at higher temps than that.
its called pancakingclap your hands you can make air shoot out
like i said before im all for conspiracy theorys. ill prove that we didnt land on the moon if you want, but this one holds no water whatsoever to anyone who looks more into it than reading the conspiracy websites.
Firemagic, don't criticize them. They are not target of our criticism.
It's not even matter of "they" against "us".
We, common people, the flock, are not wired to believe in Big Lie if ever such Big Lie has indeed taken place.
There are, in this world, serious offenders looking just like the rest of us yet capable of doing things that defy our common sense.
Even the least amongst us, assuming we still retain the minimum of humanity, understand people primarily in term of character, integrity and love, etc while these beings only see others just as mean of monetary gain.
For most of us, it will be impossible to comprehend these people. You simply can't.
Firemagic, I don't understand you. You ask for other members' open-minded opinions, and then you directly attack their statements. Don't be a hypocrite. You yourself is the one who needs to open his mind to other peoples' thoughts.
"Whoever controls the media controls the mind..-'Jim Morrison"
"When decorum is repression, the only dignity free men have is to speak out." ~Abbie Hoffman
Bin Laden never claimed responsibility. The "admission" you speak of came from a tape that was not of Bin Laden and the audio was so hosed, even the experts cannot agree what was said.
Now more to the point, here is all the proof anyone will ever need that the highest levels of our government, including the President, was complicit in 9/11. With an undetermined number of planes having been hijacked, and with Bush's presence in the school announced days before hand, just how did the Secret Service know Bush was safe reading to schoolchildren...with an airport a mere 4 miles from that school?
People, wake up. Government is not your friend and never will be. The very worst people in the world, the very ones who should never, ever hold political power of any kind, are the ones currently in office. And you think you are safe with these vultures telling you they are going to protect you.
a 112-page document drawn up by Ramzi Binalshibh, of Al Qaeda, and released by Qatar-based TV station Al Jazeera, admits that the organization was involved in the terrorist attacks in the USA on September 11th and promises thousands more attacks like September 11th to make that event the beginning of the end for America.
look it up.
im not a huge fan of the government myself, when john's war starts i know what side ill be on and it wont be their's, but that doesn't mean i can ignore documented facts and believe everyting i read on some crackpot website.
ok so lets say bush is a crazy person wanting to push his agenda... but yet in so many contries the same type of stuff keeps on happening. Madrid, London are the main two(made only two)... but none the less same ideas same damage... the amount of poltics that would habve to have agreed with this is enmourous... I would think some politcians would have been killed around that time, if not earlier becasue even if one said no when the idea was brought to them they would have been screwed...
Lastly- they say that all those "drills" and such were being run before hand. Which I am not really suprised... people kept saying bush had info about this beforehand... so he just didnt wnat to scare anyone so he just made everyone run...
lol sorry last thing... if anyone was trying to push their agenda Bush was screwed with it... people didnt trust how he was runing the war or deffending the states... He had nothign going for him... I am to amost part republic, but if I could have I would not have voted for Bush becuase he didnt do anythign right..
Lets just say this is all correct for a sec. What are you or anyone else gonna do about it? I hate to admit it but there is nothing you can do about it....
I am seriously in awe that there are really that many crazy douche bags out there who think that all polticians are criminally minded and insane, George Bush is causing these attacks, George Bush authorized them, Tony Blair is the devil, Tony Blair blew up London. It sickens me that people like to contradict the blatant truth just for the sake of stirring up controversy.
These same people, the Micheal Crooks of the world, would rather move out of the country then serve your nation proudly to pay back everything you owe (your FREEDOMS) to your country if a draft were ordered. These same people truly believe that the United States and the UK are criminals, need to be shot on the spot. We DO NOT need your ignorant, self righteous BULLSHIT.
Look at the blatant, infront of you truth. No matter how much you think that there is some mass conspiracy going on, or George Bush is forming the NWO, or whatever the fuck you get off even saying that your own leaders who are there for a reason (elected officials, meaning the people voted for them) are causing these attacks, it just isnt true. Nor is it possible. Tell me, how the hell is anybody as well documented and recorded as the president of the United States going to pull something like that. I don't know if your 8th grade education made it to the US government structure or not, but there is a SYSTEM OF CHECKS AND BALANCES, making it nearly IMPOSSIBLE to pull something off like this.
Fuck, people piss me off. If you hate America or the UK, get the fuck out of our country. Go join the bastards blowing up innocent civilians, if you hate us so much.
For the record, I think George Bush is not a good president, and he has made tons of stupid mistakes in his administration. But people who think that it is even possible to pull off this stuff is just mentally insane. Your political leaders are there to protect you, they may not be doing the best job at it, but at the very least their INTENTIONS are for the good of the PEOPLE.
Where would the world be without the United States? A backwards society. Maybe you havent realized, but we have helped fight off world dictators, oppression, donated billions upon billions of dollars of aid to pretty much every disaster in our short history,we have taken evil dictators out of power, dethroned war militias hell bent on starving their own people, and yet you have the nerve to come in here and tell us that our government is evil, lying, and trying to take over the world. Get a fucking clue. I guess ignorance is bliss, you enjoy spewing out your bullshit, trying to contradict everything in the world. Moon landings fake, US government blows up world trade centers to start a war, Iraqi people are less happy with the new regime and had more freedoms under Saddam.
Quit trying to start with your conspiracy theory self righteous bullshit, and open your eyes. Clear your head and look at what is infront of you.
yes i posted this in another thread, but I just realized this fits perfectly with this thread too
I can't believe you guys won't accept factual data such as the audio clips, the seismic data and the various letters/accounts and video proof of something EXTRA happening in addition to the planes crashing..
You are the sort of voting public Bush adores because you'll quite happily believe every single word him and his muppets tell you, yet actual hard scientific facts and proof you won't? YOu prefer to listen to a man who holds a nursery book upside down whilst 'reading' it a man whose family is in bed with the Bin Ladens, a man whose government trained and provided people like Bin Laden with weapons, money and know how, yet cold hard evidence you diss as a conspiracy theory?
Honestly, people like you deserve everything you get... Think for yourselves for once instead of blindly following a leader you know VERY little about...
Jiggly.
Wow Badhawk, such ignorance is rarely seen. You're basically saying that anyone that disagrres with the Government, or you, needs to leave the country. I or anyone else can feely bash what ever the hell we want. And you know what? Americas constitution protects that right. Just because you don't like what I have to say doesn't mean i'm not going to say it. It kills me that you so proudly support the country yet would so easily piss on the first ammendment. Maybe you should be the one that takes a hike.
What you fail to realize is that if no one ever spoke out we wouldn't have the freedoms we do. You can sit fat and happy and belive/support whatever you feel is correct because that's your right. But if you ever criticize anyone for having a different opinion and tell them to leave, it's you that's being un-american. Save your rhetoric for someone a bit more foolish.