personally i think the biggest lie to date has to be Chris Roberts. i mean the dude has been promising now for what? ....4 years and counting? the list of things he's promised is so long most people probably don't even remember 1/4 of it.
thing is, he can just keep saying the game is "in development" 10 years from now and, technically, that gives him an excuse for not having EVERY feature he promised (or any). it's a crafty and devious lie, but still a lie.
i paid for my ship like 2 years ago....where is my game Roberts?
I won't defend CR, but what you are saying is nonsense. You complain about a game that is not finished, hardly something to whine about, unless of course, IT WAS IMPORTANT TO YOU.
So, was Star Citizen so important to you that you are going to whine about it?
Don't tell me you use Win 10. The storefront to the police state.
Biggest and best lies are the ones most have "bought" into by spreading the word of those lies with Blizzard sub numbers as one example. It creates this concept where people believe there is actually 12 million other out there who are paying $15 a month for the game just like them, how sad.
It's easy to see who's lying and who isn't these days by what they are charging for what they are delivering. So, the more someone tries to hide crucial info about their game before launch, know they have a lot of lies behind what's actually in their product.
Well those numbers weren't lies, they just were boosted by Chinese players who were paying for hours in game instead of months, so the inactive accounts with hours still could be counted. But I don't think people ever really cared about the fact that it had however many other players, I think they just wanted to play it because they either liked it or have friends on it. Plus in general it still is the highest subscribed MMO so it doesn't matter really.
I am inclined to think that a lot of hype for the Elder Scrolls V Skyrim by the devs was a lot of BS. I still remember them showing and talking about this video showing how your character (made up of two hands) moved through the landscape, with the hands firing off fireballs and whatnot. Ultimately a super mediocre game. It was like they did not give a crap about game design at all.
IMO most lies come from marketing and management - the game devs that code the game are actually very honest (which is why they don't let them talk to media all that often).
WoW dance studio gets my vote
You know Blizzard actually said "we are working on a dance studio system that would be pretty cool", they did not say "we will release dance studio with WoD".
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
If someone tells you something will be good and you subjectively decide it isn't, they haven't lied to you. Lies are about statements which are more fact-based and can be shown to be false.
Most of the vague lie accusations here seem to be in that category.
I mean the GW2 manifesto was linked and while I skipped through it a bit, every part I watched was definitely in GW2 at launch. The subjective vibe you imagined in your mind might be different from the subjective vibe you experienced while playing GW2, but that doesn't mean the manifesto lied to you. The manifesto isn't responsible for your own mind making leaps of faith -- blame your own mind for that. (But again, I didn't re-watch the entire thing so maybe there's one line in there which is actually false.)
I don't recall Mark Jacobs' saying anything which was flat-out false. Mostly he painted an aesthetic picture of each class that people were subjectively disappointed in. Is there a quote where he actually promised something that didn't happen?
The SWG quote would be an actual lie. If they actually outright said that quote, then that's a clearcut statement which was clearly false.
The pay2win accusation is laughable. Most F2P MMORPGs don't sell things that make winning easier (and that's what pay2win is). If you hear the word pay2win and you think "pay4anything" then it's your mind lying to you, not the developer.
Basically you can't just pretend developers are lying when you accuse them of lying. They have to actually be lying. They have to make a definite concrete promise and then that thing has to be proven false.
Post edited by Axehilt on
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I think that Chris Roberts isn't actually lying. I mean, he constantly lets people down, but I think he really intends to make all of those promises throughout the years happen. Execution is obviously not his strong suit though, and so it almost seems impossible that he's not lying. But I personally think that lying isn't his issue, it's incompetence.
Now I have nothing against the game. I loved planetside (best game ever), but I remember when they were trying to hype their cave expansion as urban combat. It was nothing, anywhere near urban anything.
This says it all for me. Since i never trust anything from anyone when it comes to gaming. But Chris Roberts has the best one going in the history of gaming.
The development of EQ:Next and EQ:Landmark was very strange.
The announcement of EQ Next promised rich storylines, meaningful player interaction, quests that shape the world. It was pitched as a glorified throwback to traditional fantasy MMOs.
Then Landmark came out of nowhere. EQ Next was supposed to be in "full development", uninfluenced by Landmark. I found that mysterious, as we did not see any new information on Next, since Landmark was revealed. It would not surprise me if SOE management decided to scrap most of EQ Next, in order to capture Minecraft's playerbase with Landmark.
SOE has made the same ridiculous decision with all their products. Instead of expanding on their ideas, they scrap their products to replace them with a clone of a successful MMO.
SWG scrapped most of the social/combat features to be like WoW. EQ2 tried to copy WoW PvP arena gameplay, which was a disaster. And ultimately Next was made into Minecraft.
If someone tells you something will be good and you subjectively decide it isn't, they haven't lied to you. Lies are about statements which are more fact-based and can be shown to be false.
Most of the vague lie accusations here seem to be in that category.
I mean the GW2 manifesto was linked and while I skipped through it a bit, every part I watched was definitely in GW2 at launch. The subjective vibe you imagined in your mind might be different from the subjective vibe you experienced while playing GW2, but that doesn't mean the manifesto lied to you. The manifesto isn't responsible for your own mind making leaps of faith -- blame your own mind for that. (But again, I didn't re-watch the entire thing so maybe there's one line in there which is actually false.)
I don't recall Mark Jacobs' saying anything which was flat-out false. Mostly he painted an aesthetic picture of each class that people were subjectively disappointed in. Is there a quote where he actually promised something that didn't happen?
The SWG quote would be an actual lie. If they actually outright said that quote, then that's a clearcut statement which was clearly false.
The pay2win accusation is laughable. Most F2P MMORPGs don't sell things that make winning easier (and that's what pay2win is). If you hear the word pay2win and you think "pay4anything" then it's your mind lying to you, not the developer.
Basically you can't just pretend developers are lying when you accuse them of lying. They have to actually be lying. They have to make a definite concrete promise and then that thing has to be proven false.
Was playing some WOW before , leveling up my Druid, and I was listening to Little Lies by Fleetwood Mac. It got me thinking,
Developers constantly over-hype their games, making exaggerated or misleading claims , giving gamers high expectations, only to get caught in their own web of lies.
What would you say is the biggest lie a video game developer told gamers to stir up hype for a game?
Was playing some WOW before , leveling up my Druid, and I was listening to Little Lies by Fleetwood Mac. It got me thinking,
Developers constantly over-hype their games, making exaggerated or misleading claims , giving gamers high expectations, only to get caught in their own web of lies.
What would you say is the biggest lie a video game developer told gamers to stir up hype for a game?
When I think about the word "lie" and "fooling your customers" and "hype people and then disappoint them", all I can think of is this video. Every dictionary should have the link to this video under the word "Lie":
Arenanet should really start making late night infomercials. Top quality stuff. Watching this video made me want to go out and buy GW2, then I realized I already bought the game at launch.
I enjoyed GW2 though, still a fun game to hop back into every once in a while.
I posted that even though I too enjoyed GW2.....A lot more than I thought I would. But that manifesto.........pure bullshit.
I see more hype nowadays generated by the consumer more then the companies. The company will make a mediocre video with little gameplay and people will freak out over how good it looks and overhype it anyway. I think its more a factor of people just being bored and wanting something decent so bad that they will flood interest in something before they even play it. Have seen it FAR too many times with MMOs in the last decade.
Hype works because the imagination fills in the unknown parts based on our hopes and dreams. Unless you've really been badly burned in the past, then everything looks bad.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
You're wrong. I didn't defend deceitful developers, I defended the innocent ones.
Developers aren't liars simply because someone accuses them of lying. Developers are liars when there is a direct quote of their making a promise and that promise wasn't fulfilled.
Do you have additional evidence? No? Then sit down and be quiet, because you're only contributing to an atmosphere of angry ignorance.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
You're wrong. I didn't defend deceitful developers, I defended the innocent ones.
Developers aren't liars simply because someone accuses them of lying. Developers are liars when there is a direct quote of their making a promise and that promise wasn't fulfilled.
Do you have additional evidence? No? Then sit down and be quiet, because you're only contributing to an atmosphere of angry ignorance.
Actually you were pretty indiscriminate in your defence of developers, but you made some good points particularly:
"Basically you can't just pretend developers are lying when you accuse them of lying. They have to actually be lying. They have to make a definite concrete promise and then that thing has to be proven false."
But I would go one step further they actually need to know that it was false at the time they made the statement. Being factually wrong is not necessarily lying.
When I think about the word "lie" and "fooling your customers" and "hype people and then disappoint them", all I can think of is this video. Every dictionary should have the link to this video under the word "Lie":
It's not a lie when McDonald's tells you their food is great. That doesn't represent a concrete promise of objective truth.
Unless your takeaway from that video was that you'd be able to bleed mice and cast Rain of Custard in Warhammer Online, nothing portrayed in that video is a lie.
Or was it your point that you would be adding a new definition of lying since the video doesn't match any existing definition of lie?
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Actually you were pretty indiscriminate in your defence of developers, but you made some good points particularly:
"Basically you can't just pretend developers are lying when you accuse them of lying. They have to actually be lying. They have to make a definite concrete promise and then that thing has to be proven false."
But I would go one step further they actually need to know that it was false at the time they made the statement. Being factually wrong is not necessarily lying.
It only seemed indiscriminate because so little valid evidence has been raised in this thread:
I defended all of the developers with ZERO evidence against them (most lie accusations in this thread)
I defended all of the developers with FALSE evidence against them (GW2 manifesto, Warhammer vid) These are hype vids, promising nothing concrete that didn't show up in the actual game (unless someone took raining custard and bleeding mice literally).
I didn't defend the developer with the clear-cut quote promising 'no change' right before a huge change.
Sure I can understand (given that the lion's share of accusations in this thread are complete nonsense) that it might seem indiscriminate. But it's really not. I have agreed that it was lying in every single case where it was actually lying. So (unless I missed another valid piece of evidence) exactly one case of actual lying.
But yeah, it does help to remember that someone needs to know a statement is false when they made it for it to actually be lying. Totally agree there.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Comments
So, was Star Citizen so important to you that you are going to whine about it?
Don't tell me you use Win 10.
Edit: Ooops, it was Skyrim, not Elder Scrolls IV.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Most of the vague lie accusations here seem to be in that category.
I mean the GW2 manifesto was linked and while I skipped through it a bit, every part I watched was definitely in GW2 at launch. The subjective vibe you imagined in your mind might be different from the subjective vibe you experienced while playing GW2, but that doesn't mean the manifesto lied to you. The manifesto isn't responsible for your own mind making leaps of faith -- blame your own mind for that. (But again, I didn't re-watch the entire thing so maybe there's one line in there which is actually false.)
I don't recall Mark Jacobs' saying anything which was flat-out false. Mostly he painted an aesthetic picture of each class that people were subjectively disappointed in. Is there a quote where he actually promised something that didn't happen?
The SWG quote would be an actual lie. If they actually outright said that quote, then that's a clearcut statement which was clearly false.
The pay2win accusation is laughable. Most F2P MMORPGs don't sell things that make winning easier (and that's what pay2win is). If you hear the word pay2win and you think "pay4anything" then it's your mind lying to you, not the developer.
Basically you can't just pretend developers are lying when you accuse them of lying. They have to actually be lying. They have to make a definite concrete promise and then that thing has to be proven false.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
The announcement of EQ Next promised rich storylines, meaningful player interaction, quests that shape the world. It was pitched as a glorified throwback to traditional fantasy MMOs.
Then Landmark came out of nowhere. EQ Next was supposed to be in "full development", uninfluenced by Landmark. I found that mysterious, as we did not see any new information on Next, since Landmark was revealed. It would not surprise me if SOE management decided to scrap most of EQ Next, in order to capture Minecraft's playerbase with Landmark.
SOE has made the same ridiculous decision with all their products. Instead of expanding on their ideas, they scrap their products to replace them with a clone of a successful MMO.
SWG scrapped most of the social/combat features to be like WoW.
EQ2 tried to copy WoW PvP arena gameplay, which was a disaster.
And ultimately Next was made into Minecraft.
This has Been a Public Service Announcement
But the acronym MMMORPG now currently means Microscopic Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game. Kappa.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Developers aren't liars simply because someone accuses them of lying. Developers are liars when there is a direct quote of their making a promise and that promise wasn't fulfilled.
Do you have additional evidence? No? Then sit down and be quiet, because you're only contributing to an atmosphere of angry ignorance.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
"Basically you can't just pretend developers are lying when you accuse them of lying. They have to actually be lying. They have to make a definite concrete promise and then that thing has to be proven false."
But I would go one step further they actually need to know that it was false at the time they made the statement. Being factually wrong is not necessarily lying.
Unless your takeaway from that video was that you'd be able to bleed mice and cast Rain of Custard in Warhammer Online, nothing portrayed in that video is a lie.
Or was it your point that you would be adding a new definition of lying since the video doesn't match any existing definition of lie?
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
- I defended all of the developers with ZERO evidence against them (most lie accusations in this thread)
- I defended all of the developers with FALSE evidence against them (GW2 manifesto, Warhammer vid) These are hype vids, promising nothing concrete that didn't show up in the actual game (unless someone took raining custard and bleeding mice literally).
- I didn't defend the developer with the clear-cut quote promising 'no change' right before a huge change.
Sure I can understand (given that the lion's share of accusations in this thread are complete nonsense) that it might seem indiscriminate. But it's really not. I have agreed that it was lying in every single case where it was actually lying. So (unless I missed another valid piece of evidence) exactly one case of actual lying.But yeah, it does help to remember that someone needs to know a statement is false when they made it for it to actually be lying. Totally agree there.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin