Not knowing if it's true or not, this is very telling for the "story":
"We purchased this site a few months back from the previous owners and honestly it was not represented to us very accurately. There was no mention that it was anything other than a "mmo community forum that was centered around an old EQ guild." Had I known what I know now - I never would have purchased it."
To drop 20k on anything and not do your due dilligence is just egregiously negligent regardless if it's a drop in the bucket or not. If that's the case they might as well have bought a package from Star Citizen.
Give me a break, if someone is going to drop 20k, on something like this, this is a sad excuse...I been in this business and others types, and have experience enough to know that you check everything out.
They have been around, so I don't buy this excuse....
According to doofhoof, Craig made you an offer for the data, $7K, seems fair in light of everything.
So little understanding of business in the world, a failing of the education system apparently.
Here's a thought, maybe the community member who sold the site can buy the data back and donate it to the new site?
I don't even know who doofhoof is. Palum, Lithose and I are posting under our known handles however. Believe who you want, I guess.
AFAIK we reached out to Craig and asked what he and MMORPG would want. You make it sound like Craig rang our doorbell out of the blue looking to make a sale.
Even if (even if!) $7k is remotely accurate, then:
It's probably based on what Craig paid, which probably isn't a fair valuation, all things considered (some of you have even been arguing that he was ripped off, so this should be an easy concept to grasp)
No one in their right mind would want to pay a premium simply because Craig paid too much. This is like buying a used car for 10 times the market value and then trying to sell spare parts off of it at inflated prices. No, we do not want to buy a $50 used car stereo that Craig ripped out of the dash for $500, on the premise that he paid to much for a collection of sites.
$7k for the forums database is pants on head retarded. No one else will ever want that data. It doesn't have a use beyond us wanting to insert it into our new forums to maintain continuity.
Why would Draegan/Teljair voluntarily buy that data back and donate it to us? You probably think that Santa is real, too.
I will ask you this though: what do we not understand about the business world? You sound like a petulant teenager trying to take a swipe at me while simultaneously trying to sound erudite, yet you couldn't really manage to verbalize a very convincing argument beyond "hurr durr failing of the education system, hurr durr". Is this really a fair representation of the level of discourse here?
Oh no, the obligatory LOL is what you'll get here.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Re-read your response, and you'll see why i replied the way i did. It's a typical victimization ploy from those hurling insults and being derogatory. You might feel safe in a 4chan environment, but don't expect the same comfort in a moderated community which has mature adults.
No, I want you to be specific. Don't be lazy and just toss out a "reread your post and you'll see why I replied the way I did" response. That's just a copout. As it stands now your tapdancing around seems more like a tacit admission that you really don't have an argument to offer.
The odd thing to me is that you talk like this is an 'adult' community but then your posts are anything but.
I'd specifically like you to elaborate on what you found in my original post to merit the "immature outlook on life" comment, though I suspect you won't oblige me.
Mmorpg was in the wrong on this one and this entire community got upended as a result, it's my understanding that these guys have been around for like 17 years and now can't have their own posts, url, or content.
Idk why these guys need to be punished for craigs poor business acumen. Plus we were told all this stuff about needed to disable ad block because they couldn't keep the lights on only to see them flagrantly wasting 20k.
Re-read your response, and you'll see why i replied the way i did. It's a typical victimization ploy from those hurling insults and being derogatory. You might feel safe in a 4chan environment, but don't expect the same comfort in a moderated community which has mature adults.
No, I want you to be specific. Don't be lazy and just toss out a "reread your post and you'll see why I replied the way I did" response. That's just a copout. As it stands now your tapdancing around seems more like a tacit admission that you really don't have an argument to offer.
The odd thing to me is that you talk like this is an 'adult' community but then your posts are anything but.
I'd specifically like you to elaborate on what you found in my original post to merit the "immature outlook on life" comment, though I suspect you won't oblige me.
" If an agreement can't be reached over that data, then I hope that Craig enjoys threads about random prostitutes and the johns that love them, a nice guy named Gravy, how many mcnuggets McCheese can eat in one sitting, MAGA, sous-viding entire cows, Brad and Pantheon, whether Mist is really a woman or just a depressed and whiny dude, and the occasional argument about the alien lizard angels who built the pyramids and how gargling peroxide can cure what ails you."
You belittle a new site owner with a veiled threat, because he refuses to hand over permission of data, to those who aren't invested in his new acquisition. Why not just move on and let it go? Do you, and others, harass Zuckerberg after his Oculus Rift purchase? If so, that says a lot about your emotional investment to a forum community, which quite frankly, is just pathetic.
" If an agreement can't be reached over that data, then I hope that Craig enjoys threads about random prostitutes and the johns that love them, a nice guy named Gravy, how many mcnuggets McCheese can eat in one sitting, MAGA, sous-viding entire cows, Brad and Pantheon, whether Mist is really a woman or just a depressed and whiny dude, and the occasional argument about the alien lizard angels who built the pyramids and how gargling peroxide can cure what ails you."
You belittle a new site owner with a veiled threat, because he refuses to hand over permission of data, to those who aren't invested in his new acquisition. Why not just move on and let it go? Do you, and others, harass Zuckerberg after his Oculus Rift purchase? If so, that says a lot about your emotional investment to a forum community, which quite frankly, is just pathetic.
What veiled threat? That he's going to be stuck with useless forum data if an agreement isn't reached? That's not a threat, that's ****ing common sense.
It's up to Craig and MMORPG.com what they want to do with it, but trying to charge a hefty premium for data that is only desirable to an extremely small subset of users in order to recoup his losses doesn't make much sense. I do however encourage Craig to take that information elsewhere. Maybe I'm wrong...maybe someone else might actually be willing to pay for it! And lest anyone mistake my posting as a hamfisted attempt to sway Craig's decision...AFAIK that ship has already sailed and the conversation is over.
Speaking of emotional involvement, do you always get a bit ragey like you are here? I've gone out of my way to be as reasonable and honest as possible, but a number of you seem to be extremely emotionally invested in attacking any narrative that doesn't paint Craig and MMORPG.com as the heroes. #confirmationbias? To be clear, I don't think that Craig and MMORPG was 'in the wrong' or tried to treat us poorly, but I'm also not going to let emotion cloud my judgement and put feels before reals.
Re-read your response, and you'll see why i replied the way i did. It's a typical victimization ploy from those hurling insults and being derogatory. You might feel safe in a 4chan environment, but don't expect the same comfort in a moderated community which has mature adults.
No, I want you to be specific. Don't be lazy and just toss out a "reread your post and you'll see why I replied the way I did" response. That's just a copout. As it stands now your tapdancing around seems more like a tacit admission that you really don't have an argument to offer.
The odd thing to me is that you talk like this is an 'adult' community but then your posts are anything but.
I'd specifically like you to elaborate on what you found in my original post to merit the "immature outlook on life" comment, though I suspect you won't oblige me.
" If an agreement can't be reached over that data, then I hope that Craig enjoys threads about random prostitutes and the johns that love them, a nice guy named Gravy, how many mcnuggets McCheese can eat in one sitting, MAGA, sous-viding entire cows, Brad and Pantheon, whether Mist is really a woman or just a depressed and whiny dude, and the occasional argument about the alien lizard angels who built the pyramids and how gargling peroxide can cure what ails you."
You belittle a new site owner with a veiled threat, because he refuses to hand over permission of data, to those who aren't invested in his new acquisition. Why not just move on and let it go? Do you, and others, harass Zuckerberg after his Oculus Rift purchase? If so, that says a lot about your emotional investment to a forum community, which quite frankly, is just pathetic.
It wasn't a veiled threat. Those threads undoubtedly exist in the data under discussion. What Erronius as saying is that the data is only of use to the rerolled people, anyone else reading it is just going to get offended by stuff that is just a collection of in-jokes.
Re-read your response, and you'll see why i replied the way i did. It's a typical victimization ploy from those hurling insults and being derogatory. You might feel safe in a 4chan environment, but don't expect the same comfort in a moderated community which has mature adults.
Mature adults who believe the business world is about fairness and caring? My daughter understands that the business world isn't that, and she's got Dora the Explorer and Sesame Street shoveling that fairness and caring crap on her all the time.
Also, "adults" shouldn't need a strictly moderated community. Because adults should be able to handle discourse and difficult topics by understanding their feelings can be controlled, or they can simply not participate if its too difficult for them. You know who requires strict moderation? Children. My 1st grade teach Ms Appel used to moderate the hell out of us to protect our delicate feelings, and sensibilities.
So, uhh, enjoy your "moderated community", I'll enjoy talking to actual adults who can moderate themselves. (Also, this isn't a slight against most of the members here, I'm sure most of you guys hate being patronized with the moderation level here. But there are always a few that look at the unreasonable restrictions placed on discussion and content as some kind of badge of honor.)
But, those same people who swear they would have purchased the site wouldn't put their money where their mouths were when offered the chance. Instead, they proclaimed Craig the devil and started a mass exodus to another site, leaving the only fair and innocent party in the whole mess SOL. Bunch of assholes if you ask me.
Just wanted to drop in and lol at this. Yeah, as if we're going to drop 7 grand on a bunch of public domain information/posts that has no value to anyone but us. Good call. You'd be every bit as slick of a businessman as Craig McGekko over here.
It would be like Girl Scouts of America buying out a ganster rap group, 2 very different cultures.
From the reaction of the former forum users of that place, this seems to actually be a quite accurate comparison, at least the "ganster rap" part. The people on that forum seem to be exactly what a "gangster rap" group is: a lot of rude, immature loudmouths hiding behind a computer screen. Same as "gangster rap" groups, which are a bunch of rude, immature loudmouths using a sad parody of music to spit their hate and try to look like the "badasses" they will never be.
Spot on.
Most of the insults and immaturity seem to be coming from this forums regular users as far as this thread is concerned. What exactly is immature about a very tight knit community who are used to minimal moderation deciding to pick up and move when their forums are purchased by an ownership group who have a fairly heavy handed moderation style? If we as a community want to maintain the posting behaviors which range from serious and measured debates to absolute trollish dreck without worrying about incoming bans or draconian posting rules then that shouldn't be an issue.
And Craig said the moderation wouldn't change... but you so mature bunch didn't even give him a chance. Very mature, once again.
Now answer the second part of my previous post...
Lithose already put to bed the topic of why we wouldn't trust what Craig said. The TL;DR version would be that he purchased the site for monetary gain and in a situation where our posting behavior and or content created a conflict with the money flow from the site we all know which side would win out.
As far as the seller of the site? He's been disowned by the community and whatever insults towards Craig beyond he and his team not doing their due diligence in the purchase is penny ante compared to what has been said about our former community member.
Of course we knew it was a community forum. What we did not know was that if the ownership changed they would move elsewhere. How could we have known that would happen?
Prior to this happening it was a solid investment and was on track to pay itself off in a year or so (again it was not $20k like the OP stated).
I never realized these sites could make so much money, 100% return in one year would be phenomenal.
Still, Craig is NOT responsible for the current situation. The guy who sold is. And as I said, you didn't even give Craig the benefit of doubt. You judged him culprit of something he didn't do.
Maybe you guys think that you are mature tough adults or whatever because you were spewing insults at each others on some forum without moderation, but I'm not impressed. Your reaction to what happened looks more like a bunch of teenagers having a temper tantrum and having found a scapegoat for all their misery in the person of poor Craig.
Craig tried to buy something that he had no right to. We were not consulted. Poor Craig.
Still, Craig is NOT responsible for the current situation. The guy who sold is. And as I said, you didn't even give Craig the benefit of doubt. You judged him culprit of something he didn't do.
Maybe you guys think that you are mature tough adults or whatever because you were spewing insults at each others on some forum without moderation, but I'm not impressed. Your reaction to what happened looks more like a bunch of teenagers having a temper tantrum and having found a scapegoat for all their misery in the person of poor Craig.
I'm honestly surprised that people would think that Craig bears no responsibility in this. Caveat emptor isn't some meaningless kerfluffle that's only taught to people because professors just happened to have 15m to spare in lecture.You need to acknowledge that this is a concern before you can even move forward and discuss topics such as fraud or merchantability. I also don't have a problem acknowledging that Craig may have been mislead - but he wasn't mislead by our community. If he wants to pursue legal action, then there is one party to go after, and it isn't us. If Craig and company chooses legal action then I can only hope that it's made public, because our entire community will sit back eating popcorn and enjoy that delicious schadenfreude.
I also don't get your guys emotional outbursts here. I came to this thread to dispel any misconceptions I could from our end, and I def haven't been emotional. And no offense, but I doubt that any of you could even get the needle on my proverbial Feels meter to even twitch. You seem to be at least passingly familiar with our community, so ask yourself how much my buttons are being pushed by all of this lackluster B-team milquetoast levels of drama, when I've actually had to moderate those forums for at least several years now. At most, I find your reactions to be both somewhat mystifying and hilariously sad. On a forum where ads were going to be forced down everyone's throat without exception (HI2U Noscript), rather than being able to see where we're coming from, you guys are acting like our position is in no way relateable to yours. One would think that if ANYONE would be able to understand how the prospect of being a captive within one's own community by a business entity primarily interested in ad revenue and pageviews, it would be this one...yet no. You guys have seen how the monetization of your forum pushes policy; it shouldn't be hard to see why we would want to avoid the same fate, LOL.
Maybe some of you are just angry that any of us deigned to enter your echo chamber here and challenge your version of events. Your insularity is off the charts.
Still, Craig is NOT responsible for the current situation. The guy who sold is. And as I said, you didn't even give Craig the benefit of doubt. You judged him culprit of something he didn't do.
Maybe you guys think that you are mature tough adults or whatever because you were spewing insults at each others on some forum without moderation, but I'm not impressed. Your reaction to what happened looks more like a bunch of teenagers having a temper tantrum and having found a scapegoat for all their misery in the person of poor Craig.
Craig tried to buy something that he had no right to. We were not consulted. Poor Craig.
Did you own that site? I don't think so. Craig had the money, the owner wanted the money, they traded. They had all the right to do so. Welcome to business.
He bought a website, but what he really wanted was the traffic from the community. He didn't research his investment. Welcome to business.
Did you own that site? I don't think so. Craig had the money, the owner wanted the money, they traded. They had all the right to do so. Welcome to business.
Oh they absolutely had the right to make that transaction, and the customers had the right to leave. Welcome to business. This is how it works. It's not up to us to appeal to Craig, it was up to him to appeal to us (And as I'll explain, words are cheap). Human beings aren't cattle, they aren't traded in deals. The only thing you can transfer when selling a business is information on customers. Craig did have access to that, and completely failed to do his due diligence about his new customer base.
I'm absolutely baffled any of you find Craig carries no culpability, but the customer does. If you feel that way, I implore you never to go into business for yourself, avoid the heart ache, and money loss. Because the sense of entitlement it requires to believe that customers should "take your word for it", and "go along with the deals you make" simply does not exist in the business world. (And as a customer, you should also avoid that practice. Business owners are not in business to be your friend, they are in business for self interest.)
It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker,
that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest.
We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and
never talk to them of our necessities but of their advantages.--Adam Smith.
We've said the term to you three times now, at least, Caveat Emptor is one of the first things you'll learn in economics, business, and private litigation. It's up to no one but you to do due diligence. This is the term we used to guide us (And its a term you should use to guide you both in business and out of it) and given the evidence we have--Craig hiding the purchase, the way THIS site is...Old forum software, adds every inch, heavy moderation to keep the advertisers happy, attempts at disabling ad-blocker with a script? Why do you believe all of this exists the way it does here? Why would we trust Craig's word, over a reasonable assessment of the evidence we can view, and the logical progression of his self interest?
(And again, I'm not vilifying Craig for his self interest. He's putting food on the table for his family. But that thought must always be in your mind when you deal with people, especially businessmen. Never take the word of someone over the evidence of their behavior, or the empirical reality you can study, never assume benevolence over self interest is a motivation--do those things, and life will go much easier for you. Unfortunately, Picard, we don't live in a 24th century utopia, yet. )
Did you own that site? I don't think so. Craig had the money, the owner wanted the money, they traded. They had all the right to do so. Welcome to business.
Oh they absolutely had the right to make that transaction, and the customers had the right to leave. Welcome to business. This is how it works. It's not up to us to appeal to Craig, it was up to him to appeal to us (And as I'll explain, words are cheap). Human beings aren't cattle, they aren't traded in deals. The only thing you can transfer when selling a business is information on customers. Craig did have access to that, and completely failed to do his due diligence about his new customer base.
I'm absolutely baffled any of you find Craig carries no culpability, but the customer does. If you feel that way, I implore you never to go into business for yourself, avoid the heart ache, and money loss. Because the sense of entitlement it requires to believe that customers should "take your word for it", and "go along with the deals you make" simply does not exist in the business world. (And as a customer, you should also avoid that practice. Business owners are not in business to be your friend, they are in business for self interest.)
It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker,
that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest.
We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and
never talk to them of our necessities but of their advantages.--Adam Smith.
We've said the term to you three times now, at least, Caveat Emptor is one of the first things you'll learn in economics, business, and private litigation. It's up to no one but you to do due diligence. This is the term we used to guide us (And its a term you should use to guide you both in business and out of it) and given the evidence we have--Craig hiding the purchase, the way THIS site is...Old forum software, adds every inch, heavy moderation to keep the advertisers happy, attempts at disabling ad-blocker with a script? Why do you believe all of this exists the way it does here? Why would we trust Craig's word, over a reasonable assessment of the evidence we can view, and the logical progression of his self interest?
(And again, I'm not vilifying Craig for his self interest. He's putting food on the table for his family. But that thought must always be in your mind when you deal with people, especially businessmen. Never take the word of someone over the evidence of their behavior, or the empirical reality you can study, never assume benevolence over self interest is a motivation--do those things, and life will go much easier for you. Unfortunately, Picard, we don't live in a 24th century utopia, yet. )
" If an agreement can't be reached over that data, then I hope that Craig enjoys threads about random prostitutes and the johns that love them, a nice guy named Gravy, how many mcnuggets McCheese can eat in one sitting, MAGA, sous-viding entire cows, Brad and Pantheon, whether Mist is really a woman or just a depressed and whiny dude, and the occasional argument about the alien lizard angels who built the pyramids and how gargling peroxide can cure what ails you."
You belittle a new site owner with a veiled threat, because he refuses to hand over permission of data, to those who aren't invested in his new acquisition. Why not just move on and let it go? Do you, and others, harass Zuckerberg after his Oculus Rift purchase? If so, that says a lot about your emotional investment to a forum community, which quite frankly, is just pathetic.
It's up to Craig and MMORPG.com what they want to do with it, but trying to charge a hefty premium for data that is only desirable to an extremely small subset of users in order to recoup his losses doesn't make much sense.
If it's up to them, then why do you care so much about his losses that don't make sense? If it was really up to them, then you wouldn't care at all. You can't have it both ways. Either you keep caring, or you move on. This will be my last post on this subject, but i hope i instilled some more knowledge on your aggrieved dilemma over some forum data. And yes, that's me being condescending.
Still, Craig is NOT responsible for the current situation. The guy who sold is. And as I said, you didn't even give Craig the benefit of doubt. You judged him culprit of something he didn't do.
Maybe you guys think that you are mature tough adults or whatever because you were spewing insults at each others on some forum without moderation, but I'm not impressed. Your reaction to what happened looks more like a bunch of teenagers having a temper tantrum and having found a scapegoat for all their misery in the person of poor Craig.
Craig tried to buy something that he had no right to. We were not consulted. Poor Craig.
Do you even read what you write? Who said a private citizen doesn't have a right to buy another website from it's owner? He didn't have to consult anyone but the owner. You apparently don't know how business works.
Try again, champ. The site is worthless without its user base. He wanted the traffic the users generate. He didn't consult us and didn't do his research. Welcome to business.
I feel sorry for Craig because he lost some money. I am happy for the mmorpg.com members that those forum users jumped ship. Judging by this thread alone makes me glad they won't stick around, belittleing and aggressive in their posting.
Take your poison elsewhere and leave our community alone, go take it out on your own member that sold your website, not the one buying it, the 'enemy' has been one of your own, not ours. Surprise, surprise....
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I feel sorry for Craig because he lost some money. I am happy for the mmorpg.com members that those forum users jumped ship. Judging by this thread alone makes me glad they won't stick around, belittleing and aggressive in their posting.
Take your poison elsewhere and leave our community alone, go take it out on your own member that sold your website, not the one buying it, the 'enemy' has been one of your own, not ours. Surprise, surprise....
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Thats the point, their home is compromised. Sure, one of their own made the initial sale but Craig who failed to disclose the change in regime, which I imagine felt something like your favorite mom and pop diner being bought out by McDonalds, or really giving them a reason NOT to have an exodus.
Say what you want about rerolled and their conduct, but craig and company were the ones that told us on mmorpg.com that they couldnt keep the lights on and we needed to pay a sub or disable adblock then they drop 20k on a poorly researched, poorly executed purchase.
It's real. I've been a lurker at rerolled since it was the old Fires of Heaven site. That site is basically the polar opposite of this site, in the sense that the forums are basically a free-for-all.
I'm not sure why the owners of mmorpg.com didn't actually, you know, go to the site and go through the forums and see what type of site it was.
I agree. $20k is far too large of an investment to not spend at least a few hours messing around on their forums. This really irks me that they would be so careless with their money if they are already having financial issues. Seems like you guys hired a business advisor that needs to get fired.
First the shady and incompetent Indian company they hired to develop the new website, and now this?
Comments
They have been around, so I don't buy this excuse....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The odd thing to me is that you talk like this is an 'adult' community but then your posts are anything but.
I'd specifically like you to elaborate on what you found in my original post to merit the "immature outlook on life" comment, though I suspect you won't oblige me.
Idk why these guys need to be punished for craigs poor business acumen. Plus we were told all this stuff about needed to disable ad block because they couldn't keep the lights on only to see them flagrantly wasting 20k.
/victory lap
You belittle a new site owner with a veiled threat, because he refuses to hand over permission of data, to those who aren't invested in his new acquisition. Why not just move on and let it go? Do you, and others, harass Zuckerberg after his Oculus Rift purchase? If so, that says a lot about your emotional investment to a forum community, which quite frankly, is just pathetic.
It's up to Craig and MMORPG.com what they want to do with it, but trying to charge a hefty premium for data that is only desirable to an extremely small subset of users in order to recoup his losses doesn't make much sense. I do however encourage Craig to take that information elsewhere. Maybe I'm wrong...maybe someone else might actually be willing to pay for it! And lest anyone mistake my posting as a hamfisted attempt to sway Craig's decision...AFAIK that ship has already sailed and the conversation is over.
Speaking of emotional involvement, do you always get a bit ragey like you are here? I've gone out of my way to be as reasonable and honest as possible, but a number of you seem to be extremely emotionally invested in attacking any narrative that doesn't paint Craig and MMORPG.com as the heroes. #confirmationbias? To be clear, I don't think that Craig and MMORPG was 'in the wrong' or tried to treat us poorly, but I'm also not going to let emotion cloud my judgement and put feels before reals.
Also, "adults" shouldn't need a strictly moderated community. Because adults should be able to handle discourse and difficult topics by understanding their feelings can be controlled, or they can simply not participate if its too difficult for them. You know who requires strict moderation? Children. My 1st grade teach Ms Appel used to moderate the hell out of us to protect our delicate feelings, and sensibilities.
So, uhh, enjoy your "moderated community", I'll enjoy talking to actual adults who can moderate themselves. (Also, this isn't a slight against most of the members here, I'm sure most of you guys hate being patronized with the moderation level here. But there are always a few that look at the unreasonable restrictions placed on discussion and content as some kind of badge of honor.)
As far as the seller of the site? He's been disowned by the community and whatever insults towards Craig beyond he and his team not doing their due diligence in the purchase is penny ante compared to what has been said about our former community member.
I also don't get your guys emotional outbursts here. I came to this thread to dispel any misconceptions I could from our end, and I def haven't been emotional. And no offense, but I doubt that any of you could even get the needle on my proverbial Feels meter to even twitch. You seem to be at least passingly familiar with our community, so ask yourself how much my buttons are being pushed by all of this lackluster B-team milquetoast levels of drama, when I've actually had to moderate those forums for at least several years now. At most, I find your reactions to be both somewhat mystifying and hilariously sad. On a forum where ads were going to be forced down everyone's throat without exception (HI2U Noscript), rather than being able to see where we're coming from, you guys are acting like our position is in no way relateable to yours. One would think that if ANYONE would be able to understand how the prospect of being a captive within one's own community by a business entity primarily interested in ad revenue and pageviews, it would be this one...yet no. You guys have seen how the monetization of your forum pushes policy; it shouldn't be hard to see why we would want to avoid the same fate, LOL.
Maybe some of you are just angry that any of us deigned to enter your echo chamber here and challenge your version of events. Your insularity is off the charts.
Oh they absolutely had the right to make that transaction, and the customers had the right to leave. Welcome to business. This is how it works. It's not up to us to appeal to Craig, it was up to him to appeal to us (And as I'll explain, words are cheap). Human beings aren't cattle, they aren't traded in deals. The only thing you can transfer when selling a business is information on customers. Craig did have access to that, and completely failed to do his due diligence about his new customer base.
I'm absolutely baffled any of you find Craig carries no culpability, but the customer does. If you feel that way, I implore you never to go into business for yourself, avoid the heart ache, and money loss. Because the sense of entitlement it requires to believe that customers should "take your word for it", and "go along with the deals you make" simply does not exist in the business world. (And as a customer, you should also avoid that practice. Business owners are not in business to be your friend, they are in business for self interest.)
It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our necessities but of their advantages.--Adam Smith.
We've said the term to you three times now, at least, Caveat Emptor is one of the first things you'll learn in economics, business, and private litigation. It's up to no one but you to do due diligence. This is the term we used to guide us (And its a term you should use to guide you both in business and out of it) and given the evidence we have--Craig hiding the purchase, the way THIS site is...Old forum software, adds every inch, heavy moderation to keep the advertisers happy, attempts at disabling ad-blocker with a script? Why do you believe all of this exists the way it does here? Why would we trust Craig's word, over a reasonable assessment of the evidence we can view, and the logical progression of his self interest?
(And again, I'm not vilifying Craig for his self interest. He's putting food on the table for his family. But that thought must always be in your mind when you deal with people, especially businessmen. Never take the word of someone over the evidence of their behavior, or the empirical reality you can study, never assume benevolence over self interest is a motivation--do those things, and life will go much easier for you. Unfortunately, Picard, we don't live in a 24th century utopia, yet. )
Take your poison elsewhere and leave our community alone, go take it out on your own member that sold your website, not the one buying it, the 'enemy' has been one of your own, not ours. Surprise, surprise....
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Say what you want about rerolled and their conduct, but craig and company were the ones that told us on mmorpg.com that they couldnt keep the lights on and we needed to pay a sub or disable adblock then they drop 20k on a poorly researched, poorly executed purchase.
lel
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