People keep saying that the developers lied. Where exactly are the lies? Can you find an explicit statement where they promised that item mall goods would never be tradeable? Not merely "not tradeable at this time" or "we're not planning on making them tradeable". The developers didn't do what you hoped they'd do is not lies, fraud, or false advertising.
This is the problem with the world today.
Having to back track after they screw people and find the legal statement. Did he say it months earlier ?
You shouldn't have to do this.
People should enjoy a game and not have to watch every prodcast and every statement before they buy.
Finding an " explicit statement " after the fact is bull shit !
Or maybe, just maybe, you and everyone else can't find an explicit statement because there never was one?
Except there was.
When asked why the game is b2p, the marketing guy says,
"It will help with balance because we don't have to resort to f2p p2w antics to earn money."
Not to mention they stated many times that prices were the way they were ($30 costumes anyone???) to avoid "having to go p2w".
They actually talked about p2w a lot, and used the idea that the game isn't and wouldn't be p2w as a selling point quite often.
This isn't just some random guy, either. He was often a guy doing the official Q&As for the company.
Anyway, now that the game is p2w, there's literally no reason for it to cost us $30. Our version is in effect no different from the other f2p versions now, but they are still charging a box price for our version.
This video explains what happened to us:
Your argument basically amounts to, "I disagree with your opinion. Therefore, you lied."
Pay to win is a relative thing and always has been. What constitutes saying that a game is or isn't pay to win is a matter of opinion. Disagreements over opinions don't constitute lying.
Especially when their claim that Black Desert isn't a "pay to win" game relative to other MMORPGs is very defensible. As pay to win goes, Black Desert in its current state is pretty mild. Making item mall goods tradeable really only amounts to giving whales a legal way to buy what they previously could illegally buy from gold farmers.
People keep saying that the developers lied. Where exactly are the lies? Can you find an explicit statement where they promised that item mall goods would never be tradeable? Not merely "not tradeable at this time" or "we're not planning on making them tradeable". The developers didn't do what you hoped they'd do is not lies, fraud, or false advertising.
This is the problem with the world today.
Having to back track after they screw people and find the legal statement. Did he say it months earlier ?
You shouldn't have to do this.
People should enjoy a game and not have to watch every prodcast and every statement before they buy.
Finding an " explicit statement " after the fact is bull shit !
Or maybe, just maybe, you and everyone else can't find an explicit statement because there never was one?
Except there was.
When asked why the game is b2p, the marketing guy says,
"It will help with balance because we don't have to resort to f2p p2w antics to earn money."
Not to mention they stated many times that prices were the way they were ($30 costumes anyone???) to avoid "having to go p2w".
They actually talked about p2w a lot, and used the idea that the game isn't and wouldn't be p2w as a selling point quite often.
This isn't just some random guy, either. He was often a guy doing the official Q&As for the company.
Anyway, now that the game is p2w, there's literally no reason for it to cost us $30. Our version is in effect no different from the other f2p versions now, but they are still charging a box price for our version.
This video explains what happened to us:
Your argument basically amounts to, "I disagree with your opinion. Therefore, you lied."
Pay to win is a relative thing and always has been. What constitutes saying that a game is or isn't pay to win is a matter of opinion. Disagreements over opinions don't constitute lying.
Especially when their claim that Black Desert isn't a "pay to win" game relative to other MMORPGs is very defensible. As pay to win goes, Black Desert in its current state is pretty mild. Making item mall goods tradeable really only amounts to giving whales a legal way to buy what they previously could illegally buy from gold farmers.
No, there was no way for a whale to buy silver from a gold farmer in BDO. You can't trade in the game and the marketplace has limits, so you can't for example sell a crap item for a billion silver.
The problem here is that players are using their own definitions of what they think "p2w" is. there is no explicit statement by Daum that they would do x,y or z.
They never said they wouldn't allow pearl items in the cash shop, just that they didn't want a p2w atmosphere. If they have a different idea of what that means then that's what the real issue is. And once again the players supply their own little narrative and are yet again disappointed when things don't go the way they envisioned it in their heads.
That's awfully convenient because the company can redefine p2w any time they want.
Well yes. That's why you're supposed to disregard vague statements as being meaningless. Saying that "our game isn't pay to win" is kind of like saying "our game is really fun".
I cannot stress this enough..they never stated that they will be adding p2w mechanics and instead used psychological word play to mask it and sell it as just a b2p game whit a *cosmetics cashshop*
Psychological word play? You mean marketing?
Unless you were raised by wolves and just walked out of the forest to join society, I really don't know how you could not know this.
But I do see your point. The commercial for the car I bought insinuated that women would drop at my feet and I would become a successful tycoon if I bought it, so I did.
I've been sitting in the damn car for three days and none of that happened. I can't believe they psychologically manipulated me like that!
The problem here is that players are using their own definitions of what they think "p2w" is. there is no explicit statement by Daum that they would do x,y or z.
They never said they wouldn't allow pearl items in the cash shop, just that they didn't want a p2w atmosphere. If they have a different idea of what that means then that's what the real issue is. And once again the players supply their own little narrative and are yet again disappointed when things don't go the way they envisioned it in their heads.
That's awfully convenient because the company can redefine p2w any time they want.
Well yes. That's why you're supposed to disregard vague statements as being meaningless. Saying that "our game isn't pay to win" is kind of like saying "our game is really fun".
What?!
I mean, even if you were right (and you're not), if a dev said our version cost $30 instead of nothing because it's more fun than the other region's versions of the game, there better be something significantly different about it. And if they change that element later, you better believe there would be a lot of (rightfully) pissed off people.
The problem here is that players are using their own definitions of what they think "p2w" is. there is no explicit statement by Daum that they would do x,y or z.
They never said they wouldn't allow pearl items in the cash shop, just that they didn't want a p2w atmosphere. If they have a different idea of what that means then that's what the real issue is. And once again the players supply their own little narrative and are yet again disappointed when things don't go the way they envisioned it in their heads.
That's awfully convenient because the company can redefine p2w any time they want.
Well yes. That's why you're supposed to disregard vague statements as being meaningless. Saying that "our game isn't pay to win" is kind of like saying "our game is really fun".
What?!
I mean, even if you were right (and you're not), if a dev said our version cost $30 instead of nothing because it's more fun than the other region's versions of the game, there better be something significantly different about it. And if they change that element later, you better believe there would be a lot of (rightfully) pissed off people.
You have 0 credibilty to speak on these matters ...
You were perfectly aware of Daum , payment model , and the direction it would take .....
I can see how some could take it as P2W but its not really. Its P2W like Mr Big is a chocolate bar. The little bit of chocolate that is there is not worth mentioning and if chocolate (P2W) is your thing, you're better off is so many other games where that line is clearly crossed and can be taken advantage of.
As far as I am concerned, this MMORPG industry is riddled with customer abuse. They do it because they can. It's that simple.
Whether
that translates into any specific scenario being a potential chargeback
is upto the individual player (and bank) to decide. In this specific case there
has definitely been misleading advertising. Maybe "outright lies" is too
strong a phrase.... but definitely people haven't got what they were
told they would get. You only have to go back to the original founders
packs and the T5 horse debacle to know this company was 100% behind
screwing a large chunk of it's playerbase until the weight of
charge-backs forced their hand.
And therein is the problem. There
is no regulation on this multi-billion dollar industry. These companies
can completely disrespect their playerbase... and not listen to their customers at all..... and still make millions of dollars. So why would they bother?
You only have two tools to fight this. Either leave. Or chargeback.
It's up to the individual to decide. I decided not to chargeback, I did decide to leave. It will be different for others.
Comments
Pay to win is a relative thing and always has been. What constitutes saying that a game is or isn't pay to win is a matter of opinion. Disagreements over opinions don't constitute lying.
Especially when their claim that Black Desert isn't a "pay to win" game relative to other MMORPGs is very defensible. As pay to win goes, Black Desert in its current state is pretty mild. Making item mall goods tradeable really only amounts to giving whales a legal way to buy what they previously could illegally buy from gold farmers.
Unless you were raised by wolves and just walked out of the forest to join society, I really don't know how you could not know this.
But I do see your point. The commercial for the car I bought insinuated that women would drop at my feet and I would become a successful tycoon if I bought it, so I did.
I've been sitting in the damn car for three days and none of that happened. I can't believe they psychologically manipulated me like that!
~~ postlarval ~~
I mean, even if you were right (and you're not), if a dev said our version cost $30 instead of nothing because it's more fun than the other region's versions of the game, there better be something significantly different about it. And if they change that element later, you better believe there would be a lot of (rightfully) pissed off people.
You were perfectly aware of Daum , payment model , and the direction it would take .....
Whether that translates into any specific scenario being a potential chargeback is upto the individual player (and bank) to decide. In this specific case there has definitely been misleading advertising. Maybe "outright lies" is too strong a phrase.... but definitely people haven't got what they were told they would get. You only have to go back to the original founders packs and the T5 horse debacle to know this company was 100% behind screwing a large chunk of it's playerbase until the weight of charge-backs forced their hand.
And therein is the problem. There is no regulation on this multi-billion dollar industry. These companies can completely disrespect their playerbase... and not listen to their customers at all..... and still make millions of dollars. So why would they bother?
You only have two tools to fight this. Either leave. Or chargeback.
It's up to the individual to decide. I decided not to chargeback, I did decide to leave. It will be different for others.
Sorry, utter lack of sympathy for the people who get scammed by those sites, like they saying goes, you can't cheat an honest person.