So you have played the game, left the planet and sit into space for a year, staring at the screen to see if the planets rotate around the sun ?
Really, who cares, since you won't spend enough time in one system to witness an entire planet orbit around a sun. It would be a Complete Waste of resources to implement as no one will notice anyway.
If this is your main gripe with the game. LOL! /shrug
There's a bigger picture that you might be able to grasp if you were able to put down the kool aid for one minute... I care about developers advertising one thing and delivering something else and so should you.
It's a problem that is rife in the industry and excusing it because it happens to affect your game-of-the-month is either apathy or willful ignorance.
And I'm at odds with this accusation because it seems to me most of what was "sold" about this game, and in fact damn near any new game for the past several years, was done by deluded fanbois hyping up vague mumblings into concrete realities. Feel you were lied to? Well maybe the best medicine for this type of behavior, instead of once again going on the usual internet haterade rampage, would be to stand in front of a mirror and slap the holy living shit out of yourselves.
There's always a combination of this for a hyped game, I agree.
Even for games that I'm personally a big supporter of, like Star Citizen. A ton of "deluded" fans are hurting the project by blowing its genius way out of proportion. To me, it's key to stay grounded - even if I think the game has the potential to go above and beyond.
But, really, every developer is unique - and every marketing campaign is unique.
For NMS, even if I never followed development that closely, it's a clear-cut case of overpromising and underdelivering.
Quite extensively so, I should say.
Customers shouldn't have to go out of their way to read between the lines. That kind of thing is just not ok with me.
And while I apologize for doing so, once again I have to harshly call outright bullshit on this as this is far from an unusual circumstance. Pure and simple, customers need to learn to keep their fucking money, in their fucking pockets, until they find out exactly what the fucking product fucking includes. Have I made my viewpoint absolutely fucking clear? Good. Thank you. And again my apologies for saying it so harshly but I badly felt it needed to be said.
See you at outrage fest over the next train wreck.
I have no problem with you saying things harshly.
If you want to excuse deceitful marketing and overt "truth manipulation" from lead developers, that's your business.
If you want to pretend that it's easy for a human being to resist temptation and that we should all learn to simply not trust anyone saying anything in public, that's your business.
Personally, I think there's (huge) room for improvement on all sides - but I will never, ever, put the responsibility of decency on the people who're on the receiving end of deceit.
We don't know. Has anyone actually tested it out and provided prove that the planets don't orbit around the sun in space? If it has been implemented in a realistic way, well ...in either way it will be very hard to prove or disprove. All I am saying, is this is really nitpicking on the stupid.
Even now, the only nitpicking going on here is from you.
My quote of Murray was highlighting an example of how he would make wild claims that they were the only game doing feature X (which was blatantly untrue) and then fail to implement all these wonderful features he was bragging about. The game was sold on these non-existant features as can be seen from the reddit post.
Whether it's planetary orbits or skyboxes or ship physics or anything else is irrelevant - so stop trying to make them appaear as though they are the only point of contention.
I am not nitpicking. I actually bought the game and activily playing it. So at least I know what I am talking about!
Instead of Reading reddit, watch youtube and read people raging on forums and base everything on that.
If I would have to make decisions based on reddit, youtube, forums and game/Movie recences/reviews, I would be stuck in a dark hole every night doing nothing anymore! Not playing any games anymore and not going to any Movies anymore.... because if you read and watch long enough on the internet, then every single game, every single Movie is total crap and an utter failure.
Ever since I dropped the youtube coolaid and ignore Movie recenses.... it has made my life much more enjoyable. I enjoy a lot more Movies in cinema and I enjoy a lot more games!
One prime example was Destiny, that was both hyped to death and flamed to death..... I tried to ignore it as much as I could.... result I bought the game and played it over 18 months straight with my brother and friends. We had a total blast and we got more than our money's worth out of this game.
Same with No Man's Sky. I have completely ignored all the hype and I am having a total blast with the game.
I have completely ignored the hype and I think the game is a bad joke, especially considering its price. But I expected nothing more - because I thought it was obvious that such a team could never deliver what they tried to market their game as.
As an indie experiment, it's kinda neat - and I think it's worth 10-15 euro, if I compare it to other games of similarly weak scope and content.
I have completely ignored the hype and I think the game is a bad joke, especially considering its price. But I expected nothing more - because I thought it was obvious that such a team could never deliver what they tried to market their game as.
As an indie experiment, it's kinda neat - and I think it's worth 10-15 euro, if I compare it to other games of similarly weak scope and content.
Really? Have you actually tried the game? Clearly not.
For such a small team they have delivered something trully remarkable and I gladly pay them 60 bucks for such an effort!
I rather do that, then the pathetic joke of game that was SW:Battlefront and give EA any more of my money. Just as an example. I am still glad I played the Open Beta and didn't buy it. Or the endless recycled franchises of CoD and Battlefield. Charging 60 bucks for core game plus another 30-40 bucks for seasonpasses. Or the last games of Assasin's Creed and Batman:Arkam that were utterly broken at launch. The latter been removed from the shelves after the huge backlash!
Huge devteams! Insane budgets and still not deliver!
Size of devteam and Budgets doesn't mean anything these days.
What about Blizzard and WoW? What has Blizzard actually delivered ever since launch in 2004 for all the Money they earned through Subscription fees? All they have done is deliver the bare minimum possible and laughed their way to the bank, swimming in Money. lol. /Facepalm
If you want to have some perspective. Then here you have some perspective to chew on.
While I certainly agree that the hype and promised features went way beyond what Hello could offer, I'm still enjoying myself for my $60. That said, I can't wait for Dual Universe. That one is the multiplayer version of this I was hoping for, I think.
Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.
I am not nitpicking. I actually bought the game and activily playing it. So at least I know what I am talking about!
Instead of Reading reddit, watch youtube and read people raging on forums and base everything on that.
If I would have to make decisions based on reddit, youtube, forums and game/Movie recences/reviews, I would be stuck in a dark hole every night doing nothing anymore! Not playing any games anymore and not going to any Movies anymore.... because if you read and watch long enough on the internet, then every single game, every single Movie is total crap and an utter failure.
Ever since I dropped the youtube coolaid and ignore Movie recenses.... it has made my life much more enjoyable. I enjoy a lot more Movies in cinema and I enjoy a lot more games!
One prime example was Destiny, that was both hyped to death and flamed to death..... I tried to ignore it as much as I could.... result I bought the game and played it over 18 months straight with my brother and friends. We had a total blast and we got more than our money's worth out of this game.
Same with No Man's Sky. I have completely ignored all the hype and I am having a total blast with the game.
You are nitpicking by focusing on a single element of the game when the quote and my comment relates to a much larger scenario, typical water muddying tactics. Besides, I don't need to buy the game or even play the game to see that the developers promised a whole lot more than they delivered, other people have documented that work for me along with proof to back up the quoted statements and the reality. But by all means stick your head in the sand and say that if I haven't seen it with my own eyes then there is no proof.
While I'm obviously having a dig at Murray this applies to all developers, Totalbiscuit did a good rundown of how hype gets built up by developers, by publications and by fans - everybody is complicit. It's fine saying that your avoidance of anything relating to NMS has protected you from promises, lies and hype but what does that matter? People like to read and watch stuff they're interested in, so the information they are presented with should be as correct as possible to ensure fans are making an informed decision when handing over their money.
I have completely ignored the hype and I think the game is a bad joke, especially considering its price. But I expected nothing more - because I thought it was obvious that such a team could never deliver what they tried to market their game as.
As an indie experiment, it's kinda neat - and I think it's worth 10-15 euro, if I compare it to other games of similarly weak scope and content.
Really? Have you actually tried the game? Clearly not.
For such a small team they have delivered something trully remarkable and I gladly pay them 60 bucks for such an effort!
I rather do that, then the pathetic joke of game that was SW:Battlefront and give EA any more of my money. Just as an example. I am still glad I played the Open Beta and didn't buy it. Or the endless recycled franchises of CoD and Battlefield. Charging 60 bucks for core game plus another 30-40 bucks for seasonpasses. Or the last games of Assasin's Creed and Batman:Arkam that were utterly broken at launch. The latter been removed from the shelves after the huge backlash!
Huge devteams! Insane budgets and still not deliver!
Size of devteam and Budgets doesn't mean anything these days.
What about Blizzard and WoW? What has Blizzard actually delivered ever since launch in 2004 for all the Money they earned through Subscription fees? All they have done is deliver the bare minimum possible and laughed their way to the bank, swimming in Money. lol. /Facepalm
If you want to have some perspective. Then here you have some perspective to chew on.
Cheers
I have played the game. Because we disagree, do I need to assume you haven't?
That's pretty silly.
I'm glad you're enjoying this trivial, hollow sandbox with terrible gameplay and shallow mechanics. To each his own.
I don't know what other games have to do with it. I like to take each game on its own merits and flaws.
To me, again, NMS is a quirky little indie experiment trying to compete with the big boys.
In that way, I think it fails big-time - and I'm amazed so many people are trying to excuse all the things it doesn't provide considering the bold price tag.
If I was less tolerant, I might assume people were in denial based on premature emotional investment - but I'll have to accept that you really think the game is this great.
I am not nitpicking. I actually bought the game and activily playing it. So at least I know what I am talking about!
Instead of Reading reddit, watch youtube and read people raging on forums and base everything on that.
If I would have to make decisions based on reddit, youtube, forums and game/Movie recences/reviews, I would be stuck in a dark hole every night doing nothing anymore! Not playing any games anymore and not going to any Movies anymore.... because if you read and watch long enough on the internet, then every single game, every single Movie is total crap and an utter failure.
Ever since I dropped the youtube coolaid and ignore Movie recenses.... it has made my life much more enjoyable. I enjoy a lot more Movies in cinema and I enjoy a lot more games!
One prime example was Destiny, that was both hyped to death and flamed to death..... I tried to ignore it as much as I could.... result I bought the game and played it over 18 months straight with my brother and friends. We had a total blast and we got more than our money's worth out of this game.
Same with No Man's Sky. I have completely ignored all the hype and I am having a total blast with the game.
You are nitpicking by focusing on a single element of the game when the quote and my comment relates to a much larger scenario, typical water muddying tactics. Besides, I don't need to buy the game or even play the game to see that the developers promised a whole lot more than they delivered, other people have documented that work for me along with proof to back up the quoted statements and the reality. But by all means stick your head in the sand and say that if I haven't seen it with my own eyes then there is no proof.
While I'm obviously having a dig at Murray this applies to all developers, Totalbiscuit did a good rundown of how hype gets built up by developers, by publications and by fans - everybody is complicit. It's fine saying that your avoidance of anything relating to NMS has protected you from promises, lies and hype but what does that matter? People like to read and watch stuff they're interested in, so the information they are presented with should be as correct as possible to ensure fans are making an informed decision when handing over their money.
Exactly! NMS is not the only one! Every single game, Movie or form of Entertainment is hyped to Death these days.
It's downright scary how much Money is been used in marketing of Products these days.
Star Wars: The Old Republic and Destiny were two prime examples, where the marketing Budget exceeded the actual Development Budget! Totally insane, but that is reality today.
What about Samsung and Apple? The Money they spend on marketing alone each single year, could feed the entire African continent for decades!
That's why I find it ridiculous how much flack Hello Games gets, just because Murray is a somewhat "too" enthousiastic guy. But again, this is nothing New and a lot of lead Developers have fallen for this trap.
I can give you a whole laundry list of big names in the game industry the last decade that liked to talk too much and fell in the hype trap, together with rabid fans making matters worse.
That is what I am getting at. I finally learned my lesson and ignore hypes, previews, reviews, reddit, youtube, etc and it has significantly improved my enjoyment in various forms of Entertainment.
I am not nitpicking. I actually bought the game and activily playing it. So at least I know what I am talking about!
Instead of Reading reddit, watch youtube and read people raging on forums and base everything on that.
If I would have to make decisions based on reddit, youtube, forums and game/Movie recences/reviews, I would be stuck in a dark hole every night doing nothing anymore! Not playing any games anymore and not going to any Movies anymore.... because if you read and watch long enough on the internet, then every single game, every single Movie is total crap and an utter failure.
Ever since I dropped the youtube coolaid and ignore Movie recenses.... it has made my life much more enjoyable. I enjoy a lot more Movies in cinema and I enjoy a lot more games!
One prime example was Destiny, that was both hyped to death and flamed to death..... I tried to ignore it as much as I could.... result I bought the game and played it over 18 months straight with my brother and friends. We had a total blast and we got more than our money's worth out of this game.
Same with No Man's Sky. I have completely ignored all the hype and I am having a total blast with the game.
You are nitpicking by focusing on a single element of the game when the quote and my comment relates to a much larger scenario, typical water muddying tactics. Besides, I don't need to buy the game or even play the game to see that the developers promised a whole lot more than they delivered, other people have documented that work for me along with proof to back up the quoted statements and the reality. But by all means stick your head in the sand and say that if I haven't seen it with my own eyes then there is no proof.
While I'm obviously having a dig at Murray this applies to all developers, Totalbiscuit did a good rundown of how hype gets built up by developers, by publications and by fans - everybody is complicit. It's fine saying that your avoidance of anything relating to NMS has protected you from promises, lies and hype but what does that matter? People like to read and watch stuff they're interested in, so the information they are presented with should be as correct as possible to ensure fans are making an informed decision when handing over their money.
Exactly! NMS is not the only one! Every single game, Movie or form of Entertainment is hyped to Death these days.
It's downright scary how much Money is been used in marketing of Products these days.
Star Wars: The Old Republic and Destiny were two prime examples, where the marketing Budget exceeded the actual Development Budget! Totally insane, but that is reality today.
What about Samsung and Apple? The Money they spend on marketing alone each single year, could feed the entire African continent for decades!
That's why I find it ridiculous how much flack Hello Games gets, just because Murray is a somewhat "too" enthousiastic guy. But again, this is nothing New and a lot of lead Developers have fallen for this trap.
I can give you a whole laundry list of big names in the game industry the last decade that liked to talk too much and fell in the hype trap, together with rabid fans making matters worse.
That is what I am getting at. I finally learned my lesson and ignore hypes, previews, reviews, reddit, youtube, etc and it has significantly improved my enjoyment in various forms of Entertainment.
So, what you're saying is that every game that receives hype is of the exact same quality?
Even if all games fail - at some level - to live up to it, you honestly believe they're ALL failing at the same level?
Well seeing as how what the dev said was in the game and what actualy ended up being in the game is two different things.. Even waiting for reviews hasn't solved what is / is not in the game. You have to go by what the dev says is in and hope he is not lying.
Saying there will be no paid DLC now he is saying there will be... lol
And there is no need to say HYPE is what made everything magically appear that is not in the game.. The DEV said this still would be there..
Hello Games didn't originally plan to add any further content to NMS at all. They said that IF the game was well received, they would consider adding more stuff.
How do you reconcile that with all of the things Sean Murray said would be in the game that aren't? Was he planning on leaving it as is?
I have completely ignored the hype and I think the game is a bad joke, especially considering its price. But I expected nothing more - because I thought it was obvious that such a team could never deliver what they tried to market their game as.
As an indie experiment, it's kinda neat - and I think it's worth 10-15 euro, if I compare it to other games of similarly weak scope and content.
Really? Have you actually tried the game? Clearly not.
For such a small team they have delivered something trully remarkable and I gladly pay them 60 bucks for such an effort!
I rather do that, then the pathetic joke of game that was SW:Battlefront and give EA any more of my money. Just as an example. I am still glad I played the Open Beta and didn't buy it. Or the endless recycled franchises of CoD and Battlefield. Charging 60 bucks for core game plus another 30-40 bucks for seasonpasses. Or the last games of Assasin's Creed and Batman:Arkam that were utterly broken at launch. The latter been removed from the shelves after the huge backlash!
Huge devteams! Insane budgets and still not deliver!
Size of devteam and Budgets doesn't mean anything these days.
What about Blizzard and WoW? What has Blizzard actually delivered ever since launch in 2004 for all the Money they earned through Subscription fees? All they have done is deliver the bare minimum possible and laughed their way to the bank, swimming in Money. lol. /Facepalm
If you want to have some perspective. Then here you have some perspective to chew on.
Cheers
Whenever I read a post like this the Rocket Racoon "Fake Laugh" scene from Guardians of the Galaxy springs to mind.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
So, what you're saying is that every game that receives hype is of the exact same quality?
Even if all games fail - at some level - to live up to it, you honestly believe they're ALL failing at the same level?
Because that's just silly.
Every game is a success for one and a failure for another. That is just a fact!
Every game or Movie is different. I don't enjoy every game. I don't enjoy every Movie. That is just a fact.
Yet, in example of Movies, we have certain "famous" Movie critics reviewing every single Movie. That is insane. As it's impossible to give unbiased reviews of a Movie genre you don't like. Yet they still do. Bad review and bad score as result.
Exact same with games. How many times I have seen game reviewers review a game in a genre they clearly don't like. So the obvious outcome is a bad review and bad score.
That is why I don't trust a lot of reviews anymore nor many critics. As over the last years I have skipped Movies in cinema that later turned out to be fantastic to have seen on big screen and I missed out.
Same with Destiny. If I would have led myself on the critics and trashing on forums. I would have missed out on 18 months of great enjoyment.
Now, ofcourse there are plenty of examples of movies that were utterly bad or games that were downright broken (Assasin's Creed Unity, Batman: Arkham for example).
But NMS is a solid game. It's not broken in any way and delivers on at least 90% of what was "advertised". It runs great on PS4 and for me it runs great on PC, if you just spend a minute tweaking the graphic settings.
It's mostly People With old hardware (like AMD Phenom) that have trouble and Hello Games have actually listened and fixed this already. And this wasn't even purely thier fault, but something with how they used HAVOC.
So far, I have been quite impressed in how they are responding to issues and trying to fix it as fast as they can.
There are a lot of major game studios that can learn a thing or two from this.
I am not nitpicking. I actually bought the game and activily playing it. So at least I know what I am talking about!
Instead of Reading reddit, watch youtube and read people raging on forums and base everything on that.
If I would have to make decisions based on reddit, youtube, forums and game/Movie recences/reviews, I would be stuck in a dark hole every night doing nothing anymore! Not playing any games anymore and not going to any Movies anymore.... because if you read and watch long enough on the internet, then every single game, every single Movie is total crap and an utter failure.
Ever since I dropped the youtube coolaid and ignore Movie recenses.... it has made my life much more enjoyable. I enjoy a lot more Movies in cinema and I enjoy a lot more games!
One prime example was Destiny, that was both hyped to death and flamed to death..... I tried to ignore it as much as I could.... result I bought the game and played it over 18 months straight with my brother and friends. We had a total blast and we got more than our money's worth out of this game.
Same with No Man's Sky. I have completely ignored all the hype and I am having a total blast with the game.
You are nitpicking by focusing on a single element of the game when the quote and my comment relates to a much larger scenario, typical water muddying tactics. Besides, I don't need to buy the game or even play the game to see that the developers promised a whole lot more than they delivered, other people have documented that work for me along with proof to back up the quoted statements and the reality. But by all means stick your head in the sand and say that if I haven't seen it with my own eyes then there is no proof.
While I'm obviously having a dig at Murray this applies to all developers, Totalbiscuit did a good rundown of how hype gets built up by developers, by publications and by fans - everybody is complicit. It's fine saying that your avoidance of anything relating to NMS has protected you from promises, lies and hype but what does that matter? People like to read and watch stuff they're interested in, so the information they are presented with should be as correct as possible to ensure fans are making an informed decision when handing over their money.
Exactly! NMS is not the only one! Every single game, Movie or form of Entertainment is hyped to Death these days.
It's downright scary how much Money is been used in marketing of Products these days.
Star Wars: The Old Republic and Destiny were two prime examples, where the marketing Budget exceeded the actual Development Budget! Totally insane, but that is reality today.
What about Samsung and Apple? The Money they spend on marketing alone each single year, could feed the entire African continent for decades!
That's why I find it ridiculous how much flack Hello Games gets, just because Murray is a somewhat "too" enthousiastic guy. But again, this is nothing New and a lot of lead Developers have fallen for this trap.
I can give you a whole laundry list of big names in the game industry the last decade that liked to talk too much and fell in the hype trap, together with rabid fans making matters worse.
That is what I am getting at. I finally learned my lesson and ignore hypes, previews, reviews, reddit, youtube, etc and it has significantly improved my enjoyment in various forms of Entertainment.
So, what you're saying is that every game that receives hype is of the exact same quality?
Even if all games fail - at some level - to live up to it, you honestly believe they're ALL failing at the same level?
Because that's just silly.
Every game is a success for one and a failure for another. That is just a fact!
Every game or Movie is different. I don't enjoy every game. I don't enjoy every Movie. That is just a fact.
Yet, in example of Movies, we have certain "famous" Movie critics reviewing every single Movie. That is insane. As it's impossible to give unbiased reviews of a Movie genre you don't like. Yet they still do. Bad review and bad score as result.
Exact same with games. How many times I have seen game reviewers review a game in a genre they clearly don't like. So the obvious outcome is a bad review and bad score.
That is why I don't trust a lot of reviews anymore nor many critics. As over the last years I have skipped Movies in cinema that later turned out to be fantastic to have seen on big screen and I missed out.
Same with Destiny. If I would have led myself on the critics and trashing on forums. I would have missed out on 18 months of great enjoyment.
You got 18 months out of Destiny? Ok, that explains a lot
But if you understand and acknowledge that NMS is a failure for some and a success for others, then what are you so upset about when people say it's a failure?
So, what you're saying is that every game that receives hype is of the exact same quality?
Even if all games fail - at some level - to live up to it, you honestly believe they're ALL failing at the same level?
Because that's just silly.
Every game is a success for one and a failure for another. That is just a fact!
Every game or Movie is different. I don't enjoy every game. I don't enjoy every Movie. That is just a fact.
Yet, in example of Movies, we have certain "famous" Movie critics reviewing every single Movie. That is insane. As it's impossible to give unbiased reviews of a Movie genre you don't like. Yet they still do. Bad review and bad score as result.
Exact same with games. How many times I have seen game reviewers review a game in a genre they clearly don't like. So the obvious outcome is a bad review and bad score.
That is why I don't trust a lot of reviews anymore nor many critics. As over the last years I have skipped Movies in cinema that later turned out to be fantastic to have seen on big screen and I missed out.
Same with Destiny. If I would have led myself on the critics and trashing on forums. I would have missed out on 18 months of great enjoyment.
You got 18 months out of Destiny? Ok, that explains a lot
But if you understand and acknowledge that NMS is a failure for some and a success for others, then what are you so upset about when people say it's a failure?
I don't get it.
I got 18 months out of Destiny because I always played with my brother and friends. The game was fantastic when playing with friends. Eventhough it lacked in the story Department, it was one of the most polished and enjoyable FPS games I have played in recent years! The controls on PS4 were rock solid. Roaming around on Earth, moon, venus mars and dreadnaught, doing Public events, missions, Strikes and RAID's with friends was just a blast.
People that played it alone, then I can understand they might have not gotten very long enjoyment out of it.
So, what you're saying is that every game that receives hype is of the exact same quality?
Even if all games fail - at some level - to live up to it, you honestly believe they're ALL failing at the same level?
Because that's just silly.
Every game is a success for one and a failure for another. That is just a fact!
Every game or Movie is different. I don't enjoy every game. I don't enjoy every Movie. That is just a fact.
Yet, in example of Movies, we have certain "famous" Movie critics reviewing every single Movie. That is insane. As it's impossible to give unbiased reviews of a Movie genre you don't like. Yet they still do. Bad review and bad score as result.
Exact same with games. How many times I have seen game reviewers review a game in a genre they clearly don't like. So the obvious outcome is a bad review and bad score.
That is why I don't trust a lot of reviews anymore nor many critics. As over the last years I have skipped Movies in cinema that later turned out to be fantastic to have seen on big screen and I missed out.
Same with Destiny. If I would have led myself on the critics and trashing on forums. I would have missed out on 18 months of great enjoyment.
You got 18 months out of Destiny? Ok, that explains a lot
But if you understand and acknowledge that NMS is a failure for some and a success for others, then what are you so upset about when people say it's a failure?
I don't get it.
I got 18 months out of Destiny because I always played with my brother and friends. The game was fantastic when playing with friends. Eventhough it lacked in the story Department, it was one of the most polished and enjoyable FPS games I have played in recent years! The controls on PS4 were rock solid. Roaming around on Earth, moon, venus mars and dreadnaught, doing Public events, missions, Strikes and RAID's with friends was just a blast.
That's cool - and I agree that games like Destiny improve ten-fold if you have friends and family to play with. That's more about social interaction than the game itself, however.
Personally, I've only played the base game (and it cost a fortune, btw.) - and it became obvious to me very, very quickly that it didn't have the kind of content I was looking for.
I think I gave up around mission 6 or 7 - when I had to do yet another escort mission - blasting wave after wave of enemies, while listening to uninspired voice acting.
Frankly, I was shocked to learn how limited the story and distinct content was, considering the budget and team involved.
Disbelief comes close to describing my reaction
But the core mechanics and shooter gameplay was rock solid. If only it wasn't almost entirely about grinding for progress in such a limited system, it could have been fantastic.
So, in that way, it's easier to understand your appreciation for NMS. That, too, seems to revolve almost entirely about grinding for basic progress subject to an incredibly narrow set of me-too survival mechanics.
Destiny, of course, has vastly superior core gameplay, cooperative gameplay and much better production values.
Other than that, though, they're not too dissimilar.
So, what you're saying is that every game that receives hype is of the exact same quality?
Even if all games fail - at some level - to live up to it, you honestly believe they're ALL failing at the same level?
Because that's just silly.
Every game is a success for one and a failure for another. That is just a fact!
Every game or Movie is different. I don't enjoy every game. I don't enjoy every Movie. That is just a fact.
Yet, in example of Movies, we have certain "famous" Movie critics reviewing every single Movie. That is insane. As it's impossible to give unbiased reviews of a Movie genre you don't like. Yet they still do. Bad review and bad score as result.
Exact same with games. How many times I have seen game reviewers review a game in a genre they clearly don't like. So the obvious outcome is a bad review and bad score.
That is why I don't trust a lot of reviews anymore nor many critics. As over the last years I have skipped Movies in cinema that later turned out to be fantastic to have seen on big screen and I missed out.
Same with Destiny. If I would have led myself on the critics and trashing on forums. I would have missed out on 18 months of great enjoyment.
You got 18 months out of Destiny? Ok, that explains a lot
But if you understand and acknowledge that NMS is a failure for some and a success for others, then what are you so upset about when people say it's a failure?
I don't get it.
I got 18 months out of Destiny because I always played with my brother and friends. The game was fantastic when playing with friends. Eventhough it lacked in the story Department, it was one of the most polished and enjoyable FPS games I have played in recent years! The controls on PS4 were rock solid. Roaming around on Earth, moon, venus mars and dreadnaught, doing Public events, missions, Strikes and RAID's with friends was just a blast.
That's cool - and I agree that games like Destiny improve ten-fold if you have friends and family to play with. That's more about social interaction than the game itself, however.
Personally, I've only played the base game (and it cost a fortune, btw.) - and it became obvious to me very, very quickly that it didn't have the kind of content I was looking for.
I think I gave up around mission 6 or 7 - when I had to do yet another escort mission - blasting wave after wave of enemies, while listening to uninspired voice acting.
Frankly, I was shocked to learn how limited the story and distinct content was, considering the budget and team involved.
Disbelief comes close to describing my reaction
But the core mechanics and shooter gameplay was rock solid. If only it wasn't almost entirely about grinding for progress in such a limited system, it could have been fantastic.
So, in that way, it's easier to understand your appreciation for NMS. That, too, seems to revolve almost entirely about grinding for basic progress subject to an incredibly narrow set of me-too survival mechanics.
Destiny, of course, has vastly superior core gameplay, cooperative gameplay and much better production values.
Other than that, though, they're not too dissimilar.
There is a lot more to NMS than just grinding materials. I have discovered quite a few suprises so far.
Exactly! NMS is not the only one! Every single game, Movie or form of Entertainment is hyped to Death these days.
It's downright scary how much Money is been used in marketing of Products these days.
Star Wars: The Old Republic and Destiny were two prime examples, where the marketing Budget exceeded the actual Development Budget! Totally insane, but that is reality today.
What about Samsung and Apple? The Money they spend on marketing alone each single year, could feed the entire African continent for decades!
That's why I find it ridiculous how much flack Hello Games gets, just because Murray is a somewhat "too" enthousiastic guy. But again, this is nothing New and a lot of lead Developers have fallen for this trap.
I can give you a whole laundry list of big names in the game industry the last decade that liked to talk too much and fell in the hype trap, together with rabid fans making matters worse.
That is what I am getting at. I finally learned my lesson and ignore hypes, previews, reviews, reddit, youtube, etc and it has significantly improved my enjoyment in various forms of Entertainment.
And I am talking about addressing the root of the problem, not putting a band-aid on it. If we could all say things and then blame the listener for beliving us, the world would be a very messed up place.
Murray's enthusiasm makes him no different than Molyneaux, by all means talk about things after they have been implemented and demoed and will be part of what you deliver to your fans but if none of those things are certain then keep a lid on it because the last thing we need are more people like Molyneaux.
So, what you're saying is that every game that receives hype is of the exact same quality?
Even if all games fail - at some level - to live up to it, you honestly believe they're ALL failing at the same level?
Because that's just silly.
Every game is a success for one and a failure for another. That is just a fact!
Every game or Movie is different. I don't enjoy every game. I don't enjoy every Movie. That is just a fact.
Yet, in example of Movies, we have certain "famous" Movie critics reviewing every single Movie. That is insane. As it's impossible to give unbiased reviews of a Movie genre you don't like. Yet they still do. Bad review and bad score as result.
Exact same with games. How many times I have seen game reviewers review a game in a genre they clearly don't like. So the obvious outcome is a bad review and bad score.
That is why I don't trust a lot of reviews anymore nor many critics. As over the last years I have skipped Movies in cinema that later turned out to be fantastic to have seen on big screen and I missed out.
Same with Destiny. If I would have led myself on the critics and trashing on forums. I would have missed out on 18 months of great enjoyment.
You got 18 months out of Destiny? Ok, that explains a lot
But if you understand and acknowledge that NMS is a failure for some and a success for others, then what are you so upset about when people say it's a failure?
I don't get it.
I got 18 months out of Destiny because I always played with my brother and friends. The game was fantastic when playing with friends. Eventhough it lacked in the story Department, it was one of the most polished and enjoyable FPS games I have played in recent years! The controls on PS4 were rock solid. Roaming around on Earth, moon, venus mars and dreadnaught, doing Public events, missions, Strikes and RAID's with friends was just a blast.
That's cool - and I agree that games like Destiny improve ten-fold if you have friends and family to play with. That's more about social interaction than the game itself, however.
Personally, I've only played the base game (and it cost a fortune, btw.) - and it became obvious to me very, very quickly that it didn't have the kind of content I was looking for.
I think I gave up around mission 6 or 7 - when I had to do yet another escort mission - blasting wave after wave of enemies, while listening to uninspired voice acting.
Frankly, I was shocked to learn how limited the story and distinct content was, considering the budget and team involved.
Disbelief comes close to describing my reaction
But the core mechanics and shooter gameplay was rock solid. If only it wasn't almost entirely about grinding for progress in such a limited system, it could have been fantastic.
So, in that way, it's easier to understand your appreciation for NMS. That, too, seems to revolve almost entirely about grinding for basic progress subject to an incredibly narrow set of me-too survival mechanics.
Destiny, of course, has vastly superior core gameplay, cooperative gameplay and much better production values.
Other than that, though, they're not too dissimilar.
There is a lot more to NMS than just grinding materials. I have discovered quite a few suprises so far.
I've seen people who actually are fans of the space sim genre expecting NMS to have more depth and "SIM" to it, but i've always saw it as very meant to casual players (more looks than mechanic). I have no idea why the dev always went with claims of more depth and simulation than the game actually has, i have the feeling they just didn't had enough time and had to finish it up.
I've seen people who actually are fans of the space sim genre expecting NMS to have more depth and "SIM" to it, but i've always saw it as very meant to casual players (more looks than mechanic). I have no idea why the dev always went with claims of more depth and simulation than the game actually has, i have the feeling they just didn't had enough time and had to finish it up.
Exactly! NMS is not the only one! Every single game, Movie or form of Entertainment is hyped to Death these days.
It's downright scary how much Money is been used in marketing of Products these days.
Star Wars: The Old Republic and Destiny were two prime examples, where the marketing Budget exceeded the actual Development Budget! Totally insane, but that is reality today.
What about Samsung and Apple? The Money they spend on marketing alone each single year, could feed the entire African continent for decades!
That's why I find it ridiculous how much flack Hello Games gets, just because Murray is a somewhat "too" enthousiastic guy. But again, this is nothing New and a lot of lead Developers have fallen for this trap.
I can give you a whole laundry list of big names in the game industry the last decade that liked to talk too much and fell in the hype trap, together with rabid fans making matters worse.
That is what I am getting at. I finally learned my lesson and ignore hypes, previews, reviews, reddit, youtube, etc and it has significantly improved my enjoyment in various forms of Entertainment.
And I am talking about addressing the root of the problem, not putting a band-aid on it. If we could all say things and then blame the listener for beliving us, the world would be a very messed up place.
Murray's enthusiasm makes him no different than Molyneaux, by all means talk about things after they have been implemented and demoed and will be part of what you deliver to your fans but if none of those things are certain then keep a lid on it because the last thing we need are more people like Molyneaux.
Peter Molyneaux, Brad McQuaid, Richard Garriot, Mark Jacobs, Erling Ellingsen, many of the leads at EA, ActiVision, WB and Ubisoft..... we can go on and on and on.
That's why I ignore hype these days and take everything with a grain of salt until I see the final description and features on the back of the Box and/or webpage.
There is not a single game that launched with every single promised/mentioned feature during Development. Every single one of them had somewhere down the line had to cut back on Scope and remove features to make the deadline.
NMS is no different in this regard, hence why I waited till Close to launch before I started Reading about it.
Yet we have games like Witcher 3, Uncharted 4, Last of Us, Skyrim, Fallout 4 - on and on, where the games are well received by the VAST majority of critics and users.
Hype is a reality - and marketing is a reality.
However, that doesn't mean we absolutely should ignore everything we hear.
Also, isn't a bit silly to suggest we all stop looking forward to things and stop being excited about possibilities?
You might as well say you shouldn't get excited about a new relationship, because the initial in-love stage will inevitably fade.
Yes, consumers need to be more selective and realistic- but can't we all agree that publishers and developers need to be less deceitful when pushing their products?
Why is it that people are so accepting of lies and deceit when it comes to making money?
Yet we have games like Witcher 3, Uncharted 4, Last of Us, Skyrim, Fallout 4 - on and on, where the games are well received by the VAST majority of critics and users.
Hype is a reality - and marketing is a reality.
However, that doesn't mean we absolutely should ignore everything we hear.
Also, isn't a bit silly to suggest we all stop looking forward to things and stop being excited about possibilities?
You might as well say you shouldn't get excited about a new relationship, because the initial in-love stage will inevitably fade.
Yes, consumers need to be more selective and realistic- but can't we all agree that publishers and developers need to be less deceitful when pushing their products?
Why is it that people are so accepting of lies and deceit when it comes to making money?
I guess it's an american thing.
In defense of NMS and the small dev team they had, people could have grown a braincell or two and kept their expecations in check.
Sorry, but most of the hype around NMS were rabid fans spinning things out of control and talking about stuff and features that were never mentioned by Murray and completely made up out of their own fantasies, like the whole multiplayer and even MMO talk idiocy!
I have the past days watched back some videos that were posted and in most of them he talked about features he "would like to see" in game or would "love to put in the game at some point".
A lot of lead Developers talk that way and in no way does that mean those features will make it in the actual game! Yet some rabid fans have taken that as confirmation and started hyping about it everywhere!
And that is exactly what happened with NMS and that is just sad.
The only thing we can blame Murray for, is not to be more pro-active in stopping these rabid fans and kill off these rumors. That I can agree with.
idk, they are supposed self-published yet they had Sony on the background supporting and epic marketing campaign so i'm not sure if Sony had a say on this matters, aka, pressure to release it.
Yet we have games like Witcher 3, Uncharted 4, Last of Us, Skyrim, Fallout 4 - on and on, where the games are well received by the VAST majority of critics and users.
Hype is a reality - and marketing is a reality.
However, that doesn't mean we absolutely should ignore everything we hear.
Also, isn't a bit silly to suggest we all stop looking forward to things and stop being excited about possibilities?
You might as well say you shouldn't get excited about a new relationship, because the initial in-love stage will inevitably fade.
Yes, consumers need to be more selective and realistic- but can't we all agree that publishers and developers need to be less deceitful when pushing their products?
Why is it that people are so accepting of lies and deceit when it comes to making money?
I guess it's an american thing.
In defense of NMS and the small dev team they had, people could have grown a braincell or two and kept their expecations in check.
Sorry, but most of the hype around NMS were rabid fans spinning things out of control and talking about stuff and features that were never mentioned by Murray and completely made up out of their own fantasies, like the whole multiplayer and even MMO talk idiocy!
I have the past days watched back some videos that were posted and in most of them he talked about features he "would like to see" in game or would "love to put in the game at some point".
A lot of lead Developers talk that way and in no way does that mean those features will make it in the actual game! Yet some rabid fans have taken that as confirmation and started hyping about it everywhere!
And that is exactly what happened with NMS and that is just sad.
The only thing we can blame Murray for, is not to be more pro-active in stopping these rabid fans and kill off these rumors. That I can agree with.
I think it's 50/50 - and I think Sean Murray has been way out of line with his "subtle" hints. Again, deceit is just the standard way of delivering your product - and that's not ok with me.
If it's ok with you, that's just where we differ.
I mean, his dodging of the multiplayer issues and his "no DLC ever" backtracking are just embarrassing - and he's clearly not stupid enough for those to be genuine mistakes.
No, he felt obligated to push his product and sidestep uncomfortable truths. That's his choice - but there's no way it's all on the consumer here.
The average consumer doesn't necessarily understand the natural limitations of procedurally generated content and a small indie team. I understand, so I never expected much at all - and I got more or less 100% what I expected.
But to assume all consumers will understand what part of the hype is clearly deceitful and what part is genuine is just not a fair position at all.
Sean knew exactly what he was doing - and only now is he realising that those innocent little "white lies" have a price tag attached.
Comments
If you want to excuse deceitful marketing and overt "truth manipulation" from lead developers, that's your business.
If you want to pretend that it's easy for a human being to resist temptation and that we should all learn to simply not trust anyone saying anything in public, that's your business.
Personally, I think there's (huge) room for improvement on all sides - but I will never, ever, put the responsibility of decency on the people who're on the receiving end of deceit.
I am not nitpicking. I actually bought the game and activily playing it. So at least I know what I am talking about!
Instead of Reading reddit, watch youtube and read people raging on forums and base everything on that.
If I would have to make decisions based on reddit, youtube, forums and game/Movie recences/reviews, I would be stuck in a dark hole every night doing nothing anymore!
Not playing any games anymore and not going to any Movies anymore.... because if you read and watch long enough on the internet, then every single game, every single Movie is total crap and an utter failure.
Ever since I dropped the youtube coolaid and ignore Movie recenses.... it has made my life much more enjoyable. I enjoy a lot more Movies in cinema and I enjoy a lot more games!
One prime example was Destiny, that was both hyped to death and flamed to death..... I tried to ignore it as much as I could.... result I bought the game and played it over 18 months straight with my brother and friends. We had a total blast and we got more than our money's worth out of this game.
Same with No Man's Sky. I have completely ignored all the hype and I am having a total blast with the game.
As an indie experiment, it's kinda neat - and I think it's worth 10-15 euro, if I compare it to other games of similarly weak scope and content.
Really? Have you actually tried the game? Clearly not.
For such a small team they have delivered something trully remarkable and I gladly pay them 60 bucks for such an effort!
I rather do that, then the pathetic joke of game that was SW:Battlefront and give EA any more of my money. Just as an example. I am still glad I played the Open Beta and didn't buy it.
Or the endless recycled franchises of CoD and Battlefield. Charging 60 bucks for core game plus another 30-40 bucks for seasonpasses.
Or the last games of Assasin's Creed and Batman:Arkam that were utterly broken at launch. The latter been removed from the shelves after the huge backlash!
Huge devteams! Insane budgets and still not deliver!
Size of devteam and Budgets doesn't mean anything these days.
What about Blizzard and WoW? What has Blizzard actually delivered ever since launch in 2004 for all the Money they earned through Subscription fees?
All they have done is deliver the bare minimum possible and laughed their way to the bank, swimming in Money. lol. /Facepalm
If you want to have some perspective. Then here you have some perspective to chew on.
Cheers
Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.
My Review Manifesto
Follow me on Twitter if you dare.
You are nitpicking by focusing on a single element of the game when the quote and my comment relates to a much larger scenario, typical water muddying tactics.
Besides, I don't need to buy the game or even play the game to see that the developers promised a whole lot more than they delivered, other people have documented that work for me along with proof to back up the quoted statements and the reality.
But by all means stick your head in the sand and say that if I haven't seen it with my own eyes then there is no proof.
While I'm obviously having a dig at Murray this applies to all developers, Totalbiscuit did a good rundown of how hype gets built up by developers, by publications and by fans - everybody is complicit.
It's fine saying that your avoidance of anything relating to NMS has protected you from promises, lies and hype but what does that matter? People like to read and watch stuff they're interested in, so the information they are presented with should be as correct as possible to ensure fans are making an informed decision when handing over their money.
That's pretty silly.
I'm glad you're enjoying this trivial, hollow sandbox with terrible gameplay and shallow mechanics. To each his own.
I don't know what other games have to do with it. I like to take each game on its own merits and flaws.
To me, again, NMS is a quirky little indie experiment trying to compete with the big boys.
In that way, I think it fails big-time - and I'm amazed so many people are trying to excuse all the things it doesn't provide considering the bold price tag.
If I was less tolerant, I might assume people were in denial based on premature emotional investment - but I'll have to accept that you really think the game is this great.
I will agree to disagree, if you will.
Exactly! NMS is not the only one! Every single game, Movie or form of Entertainment is hyped to Death these days.
It's downright scary how much Money is been used in marketing of Products these days.
Star Wars: The Old Republic and Destiny were two prime examples, where the marketing Budget exceeded the actual Development Budget! Totally insane, but that is reality today.
What about Samsung and Apple? The Money they spend on marketing alone each single year, could feed the entire African continent for decades!
That's why I find it ridiculous how much flack Hello Games gets, just because Murray is a somewhat "too" enthousiastic guy. But again, this is nothing New and a lot of lead Developers have fallen for this trap.
I can give you a whole laundry list of big names in the game industry the last decade that liked to talk too much and fell in the hype trap, together with rabid fans making matters worse.
That is what I am getting at. I finally learned my lesson and ignore hypes, previews, reviews, reddit, youtube, etc and it has significantly improved my enjoyment in various forms of Entertainment.
Even if all games fail - at some level - to live up to it, you honestly believe they're ALL failing at the same level?
Because that's just silly.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Every game is a success for one and a failure for another. That is just a fact!
Every game or Movie is different. I don't enjoy every game. I don't enjoy every Movie. That is just a fact.
Yet, in example of Movies, we have certain "famous" Movie critics reviewing every single Movie. That is insane. As it's impossible to give unbiased reviews of a Movie genre you don't like. Yet they still do. Bad review and bad score as result.
Exact same with games. How many times I have seen game reviewers review a game in a genre they clearly don't like. So the obvious outcome is a bad review and bad score.
That is why I don't trust a lot of reviews anymore nor many critics. As over the last years I have skipped Movies in cinema that later turned out to be fantastic to have seen on big screen and I missed out.
Same with Destiny. If I would have led myself on the critics and trashing on forums. I would have missed out on 18 months of great enjoyment.
Now, ofcourse there are plenty of examples of movies that were utterly bad or games that were downright broken (Assasin's Creed Unity, Batman: Arkham for example).
But NMS is a solid game. It's not broken in any way and delivers on at least 90% of what was "advertised". It runs great on PS4 and for me it runs great on PC, if you just spend a minute tweaking the graphic settings.
It's mostly People With old hardware (like AMD Phenom) that have trouble and Hello Games have actually listened and fixed this already.
And this wasn't even purely thier fault, but something with how they used HAVOC.
So far, I have been quite impressed in how they are responding to issues and trying to fix it as fast as they can.
There are a lot of major game studios that can learn a thing or two from this.
But if you understand and acknowledge that NMS is a failure for some and a success for others, then what are you so upset about when people say it's a failure?
I don't get it.
The game was fantastic when playing with friends.
Eventhough it lacked in the story Department, it was one of the most polished and enjoyable FPS games I have played in recent years! The controls on PS4 were rock solid.
Roaming around on Earth, moon, venus mars and dreadnaught, doing Public events, missions, Strikes and RAID's with friends was just a blast.
People that played it alone, then I can understand they might have not gotten very long enjoyment out of it.
Personally, I've only played the base game (and it cost a fortune, btw.) - and it became obvious to me very, very quickly that it didn't have the kind of content I was looking for.
I think I gave up around mission 6 or 7 - when I had to do yet another escort mission - blasting wave after wave of enemies, while listening to uninspired voice acting.
Frankly, I was shocked to learn how limited the story and distinct content was, considering the budget and team involved.
Disbelief comes close to describing my reaction
But the core mechanics and shooter gameplay was rock solid. If only it wasn't almost entirely about grinding for progress in such a limited system, it could have been fantastic.
So, in that way, it's easier to understand your appreciation for NMS. That, too, seems to revolve almost entirely about grinding for basic progress subject to an incredibly narrow set of me-too survival mechanics.
Destiny, of course, has vastly superior core gameplay, cooperative gameplay and much better production values.
Other than that, though, they're not too dissimilar.
There is a lot more to NMS than just grinding materials. I have discovered quite a few suprises so far.
And I am talking about addressing the root of the problem, not putting a band-aid on it.
If we could all say things and then blame the listener for beliving us, the world would be a very messed up place.
Murray's enthusiasm makes him no different than Molyneaux, by all means talk about things after they have been implemented and demoed and will be part of what you deliver to your fans but if none of those things are certain then keep a lid on it because the last thing we need are more people like Molyneaux.
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/02/13/peter-molyneux-interview-godus-reputation-kickstarter/
It worked, too.
Peter Molyneaux, Brad McQuaid, Richard Garriot, Mark Jacobs, Erling Ellingsen, many of the leads at EA, ActiVision, WB and Ubisoft..... we can go on and on and on.
That's why I ignore hype these days and take everything with a grain of salt until I see the final description and features on the back of the Box and/or webpage.
There is not a single game that launched with every single promised/mentioned feature during Development.
Every single one of them had somewhere down the line had to cut back on Scope and remove features to make the deadline.
NMS is no different in this regard, hence why I waited till Close to launch before I started Reading about it.
Hype is a reality - and marketing is a reality.
However, that doesn't mean we absolutely should ignore everything we hear.
Also, isn't a bit silly to suggest we all stop looking forward to things and stop being excited about possibilities?
You might as well say you shouldn't get excited about a new relationship, because the initial in-love stage will inevitably fade.
Yes, consumers need to be more selective and realistic- but can't we all agree that publishers and developers need to be less deceitful when pushing their products?
Why is it that people are so accepting of lies and deceit when it comes to making money?
I guess it's an american thing.
In defense of NMS and the small dev team they had, people could have grown a braincell or two and kept their expecations in check.
Sorry, but most of the hype around NMS were rabid fans spinning things out of control and talking about stuff and features that were never mentioned by Murray and completely made up out of their own fantasies, like the whole multiplayer and even MMO talk idiocy!
I have the past days watched back some videos that were posted and in most of them he talked about features he "would like to see" in game or would "love to put in the game at some point".
A lot of lead Developers talk that way and in no way does that mean those features will make it in the actual game! Yet some rabid fans have taken that as confirmation and started hyping about it everywhere!
And that is exactly what happened with NMS and that is just sad.
The only thing we can blame Murray for, is not to be more pro-active in stopping these rabid fans and kill off these rumors. That I can agree with.
If it's ok with you, that's just where we differ.
I mean, his dodging of the multiplayer issues and his "no DLC ever" backtracking are just embarrassing - and he's clearly not stupid enough for those to be genuine mistakes.
No, he felt obligated to push his product and sidestep uncomfortable truths. That's his choice - but there's no way it's all on the consumer here.
The average consumer doesn't necessarily understand the natural limitations of procedurally generated content and a small indie team. I understand, so I never expected much at all - and I got more or less 100% what I expected.
But to assume all consumers will understand what part of the hype is clearly deceitful and what part is genuine is just not a fair position at all.
Sean knew exactly what he was doing - and only now is he realising that those innocent little "white lies" have a price tag attached.