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Daum/pearl abyss, lied again! [Awakening released 1 by 1]

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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 12,262
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  • RenoakuRenoaku Member EpicPosts: 3,157
    Dragnelus said:
    Delayed content for the purpose of making more money.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    Sovrath said:
    yeah, but in this case it isn't the community manager "calling the shots". Your analogy would be more correct if your brother had a car and told you he was going to sell it for $5,000. You then tell me that, I go to where the car is only to find out that your brother now wants to sell it for $10,000.

    Did you lie to me?

    Again, I don't think Daum makes good decisions but I think their real issue is that they have poor communication (among other things).
    You forgot to mention that he was told about $5000 price tag three months ago.

    It is not even a case of poor communication, just... old news.


    It is funny tho how same people screaming "P2W" see this as a "lie" too...speaks volume.
  • Bad.dogBad.dog Member UncommonPosts: 1,131
    edited August 2016
    I'd guess that Pearl Abyss decided that they can make more money somehow if they release these one-by-one.

    So much for delaying them so that they can "all be released at the same time to keep it fair for everyone", lol

    The bait-and-switch is real...

    Speaking from knowledge ? .... I find it most interesting the less someone knows the more willing they are to give an opinion
  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,772
    If this is all they did I do not think many people would be saying much. I think the anger about this is just misplaced aggression about the cash shop changes. Everything little thing they do now will be heavily scrutinized. No matter how trivial. 
    It's not trivial.  Classes with awakenings are far superior to classes without them.  People talk of warriors wiping entire guilds on their own when the warrior has awakenings.

    This kind of imbalance is what Kakao said they were trying to avoid by holding off on releasing awakenings.

    Now I guess it's just like "Eh, Fuck it."?

    We have no idea because they aren't telling us why they are doing it this way.  

    They've shut down most communication on everything at this point.
  • postlarvalpostlarval Member EpicPosts: 2,003
    Recore said:
    I thought everybody was done because the game went P2W.

    Guess not.  :o



    That was just posturing and temper tantrums.
    ______________________________________________________________________
    ~~ postlarval ~~

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 12,262
    edited August 2016
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  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,671
    If this is all they did I do not think many people would be saying much. I think the anger about this is just misplaced aggression about the cash shop changes. Everything little thing they do now will be heavily scrutinized. No matter how trivial. 
    It's not trivial.  Classes with awakenings are far superior to classes without them.  People talk of warriors wiping entire guilds on their own when the warrior has awakenings.

    This kind of imbalance is what Kakao said they were trying to avoid by holding off on releasing awakenings.

    Now I guess it's just like "Eh, Fuck it."?

    We have no idea because they aren't telling us why they are doing it this way.  

    They've shut down most communication on everything at this point.
    Yet we all knew Awakenings were coming. It was not if, it was always when. They are going to release other classes weekly or biweekly. Not too big a deal to be honest.
    They said that?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 12,262
    edited August 2016
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  • syriinxsyriinx Member UncommonPosts: 1,383
    Sovrath said:
    I don't think they did "lie". I think that their original intention was to release them and they changed their mind.


    Let's say I told you I'll sell you my car for $5000. Then you arrive to purchase it, and I "changed my mind", you won't get it for less than $10000.
    Sorry, you can turn it how you want... I lied to you.

    Do I think it's a big deal in this precise case? Not really. It's still a lie adding up to other poor decisions.
    The correct metaphor would be you told me you were going to sell your car at some point in the future, and you were currently considering asking 5000.  You didnt promise me the car for 5k though.  Somewhere in between that moment and when you actually put the car for sale you decided to ask for 10000 instead.  maybe you realized you looked up the wrong year's blue book value.  Maybe you had other financial situations that came up and you needed the extra money.  Or maybe you just realized that I had the money to burn and would offer more than its worth.

    2 of those three situations are perfectly acceptable.  One is shitty.  None of them, however, involve a lie.  Just like this particular situation, as well as the cash shop item selling.


  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,772
    edited August 2016
    If this is all they did I do not think many people would be saying much. I think the anger about this is just misplaced aggression about the cash shop changes. Everything little thing they do now will be heavily scrutinized. No matter how trivial. 
    It's not trivial.  Classes with awakenings are far superior to classes without them.  People talk of warriors wiping entire guilds on their own when the warrior has awakenings.

    This kind of imbalance is what Kakao said they were trying to avoid by holding off on releasing awakenings.

    Now I guess it's just like "Eh, Fuck it."?

    We have no idea because they aren't telling us why they are doing it this way.  

    They've shut down most communication on everything at this point.
    Yet we all knew Awakenings were coming. It was not if, it was always when. They are going to release other classes weekly or biweekly. Not too big a deal to be honest.
    No, you're missing the point, which is fine because I don't think you follow the game very closely.

    Awakenings are part of the game, and we've wanted them since the beginning.  They were already implemneted for some classes in Korea, so people playing classes that are subpar now wanted them asap.

    When asked why we didn't get them right away for these classes, we were told that they caused all kinds of imbalance problems in Korea (and this is true) because they were released at a staggered rate.

    So, for example, when they released the Warrior awakening in Korea, Warriors were wiping entire guilds almost singlehandedly.

    They wanted to release them to us all at once to avoid this.  The final awakenings were just getting done in Korea, so it was assumed after that was done we'd get them some point soonish afterward.

    Now, out of the blue, they're telling us we're getting a staggered release of awakenings, too.  The exact same balance issues will happen, and the reasoning why some classes had to be subpar for so long is now invalid.

    We don't know why they changed their mind and are doing it this way (because like I said, they are not communicating), but it will result in a terribly imbalanced game until they're all released, which may not be until next year depending on how fast they come out.
  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,772
    DMKano said:
    If this is all they did I do not think many people would be saying much. I think the anger about this is just misplaced aggression about the cash shop changes. Everything little thing they do now will be heavily scrutinized. No matter how trivial. 
    It's not trivial.  Classes with awakenings are far superior to classes without them.  People talk of warriors wiping entire guilds on their own when the warrior has awakenings.

    This kind of imbalance is what Kakao said they were trying to avoid by holding off on releasing awakenings.

    Now I guess it's just like "Eh, Fuck it."?

    We have no idea because they aren't telling us why they are doing it this way.  

    They've shut down most communication on everything at this point.
    Yet we all knew Awakenings were coming. It was not if, it was always when. They are going to release other classes weekly or biweekly. Not too big a deal to be honest.
    No, you're missing the point, which is fine because I don't think you follow the game very closely.

    Awakenings are part of the game, and we've wanted them since the beginning.  They were already implemneted for some classes in Korea, so people playing classes that are subpar now wanted them asap.

    When asked why we didn't get them right away for these classes, we were told that they caused all kinds of imbalance problems in Korea (and this is true) because they were released at a staggered rate.

    So, for example, when they released the Warrior awakening in Korea, Warriors were wiping entire guilds almost singlehandedly.

    They wanted to release them to us all at once to avoid this.  The final awakenings were just getting done in Korea, so it was assumed after that was done we'd get them some point soonish afterward.

    Now, out of the blue, they're telling us we're getting a staggered release of awakenings, too.  The exact same balance issues will happen, and the reasoning why some classes had to be subpar for so long is now invalid.

    We don't know why they changed their mind and are doing it this way (because like I said, they are not communicating), but it will result in a terribly imbalanced game until they're all released, which may not be until next year depending on how fast they come out.
    The has been terribly inbalanced since launch - and even post awakenings it's still imbalanced.

    Koreans had long periods of classes who had awakenings and classes who didn't - again the imbalance is something that is everpresent in this game.

    They changed their mind to because one a time release will make them more money as players go from one alt to the next - also it will keep players interest for longer.

    If all the awakenings were released at once - after 2-3 weeks everything would be already over and player would start to lose interest.

    Feeding players bite sized morsels every couple of weeks - keeps them engaged - and spending for longer.


    So the reason why it was changed is clear - money making potential is higher this way.

    Yep sure seems that way.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 12,262
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  • RPGMASTERGAMERRPGMASTERGAMER Member UncommonPosts: 516
    a fool got soon parted with his money

    how someone have trust them in the first place beyond my comprehension.... it was 100% clear they would do it before the game even releases.... many peoples have told you me included.... hope no one realy surprised...
  • holyneoholyneo Member UncommonPosts: 154
    I believe that most people were waiting for the awakenings to be released.  As they push the P2W agenda, they bled out a lot of the community.   If they wait till every awakenings is to be released there might be much more of community left. 

    Therefore, if they release the ones that are ready, they might be able to slow the bleeding of people leaving, release by release as they are finalized.

    If the community did stick around after the P2W agenda, I believe they would have kept there word a bit on releasing awakenings. Keeping there word is a stretch though.
  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,772
    edited August 2016
    I get the 'want' of having them all now but game balance is a topic of conversation with every game in the world with PvP in it.
    Having a staggered release every week I just do not see as that big a deal.  
    The big deal is twofold (threefold really):

    1. They said we'd get them all at once.  Now we're not.
    2. It will cause massive imbalance until every class has them.  They are sacrificing game balance purely for money.  This is not typical class balance issues- Awakenings are super-powered versions of classes.

    A third semi-big deal is the whole reason we supposedly didn't have them to begin with was because they wanted them all to be released at once, which is now not even a thing.

    So gimped warriors were gimped for months for no good reason.

    The staggered release in Korea made sense because they weren't done yet.  There is no good reason for them to stagger the release here, other than to sell more Awakening outfits and such.

    So, to sum up, we have them:

    A. Sacrificing the quality of the game for money
    B. Going back on their word, or at the very least not doing what they said they would do.

    A+B=Big Deal

    A+B+ all the other fuckups they've done with the game = "Can you even believe this shit?"
  • nationalcitynationalcity Member UncommonPosts: 501
    edited August 2016
    Yawn, why is it always the same people in here white knighting the game over and over... And then on the opposite spectrum the same people hating on the game over and over......
  • RPGMASTERGAMERRPGMASTERGAMER Member UncommonPosts: 516
    edited August 2016
    Yawn, why is it always the same people in here white knighting the game over and over... And then on the opposite spectrum the same people hating on the game over and over......
    some people got the red pill.... me included while some have take the green and they are living in a dream

    the reality lie in the reppill but someone who have take the green dont know that, they got riped off each new games releases... they alway hope each time, it never end.

    green pill dislike the red pill one because they show a reality they dont want to accept

    but sadly for them the real world work with rep pill
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  • syriinxsyriinx Member UncommonPosts: 1,383
    I get the 'want' of having them all now but game balance is a topic of conversation with every game in the world with PvP in it.
    Having a staggered release every week I just do not see as that big a deal.  
    The big deal is twofold (threefold really):

    1. They said we'd get them all at once.  Now we're not.
    2. It will cause massive imbalance until every class has them.  They are sacrificing game balance purely for money.  This is not typical class balance issues- Awakenings are super-powered versions of classes.


    1. No, they actually did not.  You accuse them of lying, and then blatantly twist their words around.  And since this has already been pointed out in this thread that they never claimed they would be releasing them all at once, we can say something about you that we cant say about Daum/Kakao.  We know for certain you are trying to deceive people.

    2. Please explain how this move is some big money maker for them.  This isnt a subscription game.  Keeping people around longer does not equate to more money.  The only way to make money in this model is to provide something people will want (or need) to spend money on.  A staggered release does this no more than releasing all at once.
  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,772
    syriinx said:
    I get the 'want' of having them all now but game balance is a topic of conversation with every game in the world with PvP in it.
    Having a staggered release every week I just do not see as that big a deal.  
    The big deal is twofold (threefold really):

    1. They said we'd get them all at once.  Now we're not.
    2. It will cause massive imbalance until every class has them.  They are sacrificing game balance purely for money.  This is not typical class balance issues- Awakenings are super-powered versions of classes.


    1. No, they actually did not.  You accuse them of lying, and then blatantly twist their words around.  And since this has already been pointed out in this thread that they never claimed they would be releasing them all at once, we can say something about you that we cant say about Daum/Kakao.  We know for certain you are trying to deceive people.

    2. Please explain how this move is some big money maker for them.  This isnt a subscription game.  Keeping people around longer does not equate to more money.  The only way to make money in this model is to provide something people will want (or need) to spend money on.  A staggered release does this no more than releasing all at once.
    1. They said multiple times that they "wanted to release them all at once".  That is a fact.  Now if you're going to tell me that when a developer says, "We're not giving you A because we want to do B", players should not expect them to do B ever, that's BS.

    Kakao has been careful not to ever outright lie, but they sure as hell have deceived players many times now.  Just because a company peppers everything they say with "at this moment" or "we want to" doesn't mean they can later do whatever the hell they want.

    Your seriously telling me that you think Kakao is an honest company and I'm the one trying to deceive people?

    2. There isn't all that much content coming out for the next 4 months.  Awakenings will keep some people interested as things will change when each new one is released.  Each one comes with it's own 30 dollar outfit too.

    One things for sure, the balance of the game will not benefit as some players will be running around with super-powered versions of their classes, while most others will not.  This will be for months.

    ***

    But let's assume for a moment that you're right.  Kakao isn't doing it this way for money.  Why are they doing it this way?  If there was some technical limitation, surely they'd just tell us that.  At least that would be an excuse (although not a good one).

    Or do you just think the game will be better off with staggered releases.  You think what they are doing is best for the game.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,938


    ***

    But let's assume for a moment that you're right.  Kakao isn't doing it this way for money.  Why are they doing it this way?  If there was some technical limitation, surely they'd just tell us that.  At least that would be an excuse (although not a good one).

    Or do you just think the game will be better off with staggered releases.  You think what they are doing is best for the game.

    They actually haven't said why but I believe that interview/article indicated that more information would be forthcoming. So maybe an explanation will come.

    I don't see how staggering the release of this feature will make them more money.
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  • syriinxsyriinx Member UncommonPosts: 1,383
    syriinx said:
    I get the 'want' of having them all now but game balance is a topic of conversation with every game in the world with PvP in it.
    Having a staggered release every week I just do not see as that big a deal.  
    The big deal is twofold (threefold really):

    1. They said we'd get them all at once.  Now we're not.
    2. It will cause massive imbalance until every class has them.  They are sacrificing game balance purely for money.  This is not typical class balance issues- Awakenings are super-powered versions of classes.


    1. No, they actually did not.  You accuse them of lying, and then blatantly twist their words around.  And since this has already been pointed out in this thread that they never claimed they would be releasing them all at once, we can say something about you that we cant say about Daum/Kakao.  We know for certain you are trying to deceive people.

    2. Please explain how this move is some big money maker for them.  This isnt a subscription game.  Keeping people around longer does not equate to more money.  The only way to make money in this model is to provide something people will want (or need) to spend money on.  A staggered release does this no more than releasing all at once.
    1. They said multiple times that they "wanted to release them all at once".  That is a fact.  Now if you're going to tell me that when a developer says, "We're not giving you A because we want to do B", players should not expect them to do B ever, that's BS.

    Kakao has been careful not to ever outright lie, but they sure as hell have deceived players many times now.  Just because a company peppers everything they say with "at this moment" or "we want to" doesn't mean they can later do whatever the hell they want.

    Your seriously telling me that you think Kakao is an honest company and I'm the one trying to deceive people?

    2. There isn't all that much content coming out for the next 4 months.  Awakenings will keep some people interested as things will change when each new one is released.  Each one comes with it's own 30 dollar outfit too.

    One things for sure, the balance of the game will not benefit as some players will be running around with super-powered versions of their classes, while most others will not.  This will be for months.

    ***

    But let's assume for a moment that you're right.  Kakao isn't doing it this way for money.  Why are they doing it this way?  If there was some technical limitation, surely they'd just tell us that.  At least that would be an excuse (although not a good one).

    Or do you just think the game will be better off with staggered releases.  You think what they are doing is best for the game.

    But what if they really wanted to do A at the time?  

    You are jumping to a conclusion with and spreading misinformation by stating something that never happened as a fact.  You have admitted they havent lied, thus meaning that you have lied.  So yes, you are trying to deceive people.  

    You seem to want a world where developers have incentive to keep everything to themselves because god forbid their plans change.

    And in this case I dont have any issues with you thinking that its BS, but answering people's honest questions with an outright lie makes you look every bit as bad as you claim Kakao to be.


  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,772
    edited August 2016
    syriinx said:
    syriinx said:
    I get the 'want' of having them all now but game balance is a topic of conversation with every game in the world with PvP in it.
    Having a staggered release every week I just do not see as that big a deal.  
    The big deal is twofold (threefold really):

    1. They said we'd get them all at once.  Now we're not.
    2. It will cause massive imbalance until every class has them.  They are sacrificing game balance purely for money.  This is not typical class balance issues- Awakenings are super-powered versions of classes.


    1. No, they actually did not.  You accuse them of lying, and then blatantly twist their words around.  And since this has already been pointed out in this thread that they never claimed they would be releasing them all at once, we can say something about you that we cant say about Daum/Kakao.  We know for certain you are trying to deceive people.

    2. Please explain how this move is some big money maker for them.  This isnt a subscription game.  Keeping people around longer does not equate to more money.  The only way to make money in this model is to provide something people will want (or need) to spend money on.  A staggered release does this no more than releasing all at once.
    1. They said multiple times that they "wanted to release them all at once".  That is a fact.  Now if you're going to tell me that when a developer says, "We're not giving you A because we want to do B", players should not expect them to do B ever, that's BS.

    Kakao has been careful not to ever outright lie, but they sure as hell have deceived players many times now.  Just because a company peppers everything they say with "at this moment" or "we want to" doesn't mean they can later do whatever the hell they want.

    Your seriously telling me that you think Kakao is an honest company and I'm the one trying to deceive people?

    2. There isn't all that much content coming out for the next 4 months.  Awakenings will keep some people interested as things will change when each new one is released.  Each one comes with it's own 30 dollar outfit too.

    One things for sure, the balance of the game will not benefit as some players will be running around with super-powered versions of their classes, while most others will not.  This will be for months.

    ***

    But let's assume for a moment that you're right.  Kakao isn't doing it this way for money.  Why are they doing it this way?  If there was some technical limitation, surely they'd just tell us that.  At least that would be an excuse (although not a good one).

    Or do you just think the game will be better off with staggered releases.  You think what they are doing is best for the game.

    But what if they really wanted to do A at the time?  

    You are jumping to a conclusion with and spreading misinformation by stating something that never happened as a fact.  You have admitted they havent lied, thus meaning that you have lied.  So yes, you are trying to deceive people.  

    You seem to want a world where developers have incentive to keep everything to themselves because god forbid their plans change.

    And in this case I dont have any issues with you thinking that its BS, but answering people's honest questions with an outright lie makes you look every bit as bad as you claim Kakao to be.


    I didn't use the word "lie".  It hardly matters, though.  The game will be worse because they are not doing something they said they would, for the sake of money.

    It's very simple.  

    You can jump through hoops and give them the benefit of the doubt all you want.  They no longer deserve that, at this point, however.

    You can accuse me of "outright lying" all you want, too.  Care to show a single instance where I did that?

    Kakao has proven time and time again to just care about quick cash and will sacrifice the quality of the game at any chance they get if it means a little more.

    The game is going straight to hell on a speed train.  Spending your time defending a deceitful company banking money for hair salons probably isn't the best use of your time, especially if you actually like the game and want it to be successful.

    If you care about the game's longevity, you should spend your time telling Kakao to cut out all this bullshit and demand they start caring about the quality of the game.
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    syriinx said:
    syriinx said:
    I get the 'want' of having them all now but game balance is a topic of conversation with every game in the world with PvP in it.
    Having a staggered release every week I just do not see as that big a deal.  
    The big deal is twofold (threefold really):

    1. They said we'd get them all at once.  Now we're not.
    2. It will cause massive imbalance until every class has them.  They are sacrificing game balance purely for money.  This is not typical class balance issues- Awakenings are super-powered versions of classes.


    1. No, they actually did not.  You accuse them of lying, and then blatantly twist their words around.  And since this has already been pointed out in this thread that they never claimed they would be releasing them all at once, we can say something about you that we cant say about Daum/Kakao.  We know for certain you are trying to deceive people.

    2. Please explain how this move is some big money maker for them.  This isnt a subscription game.  Keeping people around longer does not equate to more money.  The only way to make money in this model is to provide something people will want (or need) to spend money on.  A staggered release does this no more than releasing all at once.
    1. They said multiple times that they "wanted to release them all at once".  That is a fact.  Now if you're going to tell me that when a developer says, "We're not giving you A because we want to do B", players should not expect them to do B ever, that's BS.

    Kakao has been careful not to ever outright lie, but they sure as hell have deceived players many times now.  Just because a company peppers everything they say with "at this moment" or "we want to" doesn't mean they can later do whatever the hell they want.

    Your seriously telling me that you think Kakao is an honest company and I'm the one trying to deceive people?

    2. There isn't all that much content coming out for the next 4 months.  Awakenings will keep some people interested as things will change when each new one is released.  Each one comes with it's own 30 dollar outfit too.

    One things for sure, the balance of the game will not benefit as some players will be running around with super-powered versions of their classes, while most others will not.  This will be for months.

    ***

    But let's assume for a moment that you're right.  Kakao isn't doing it this way for money.  Why are they doing it this way?  If there was some technical limitation, surely they'd just tell us that.  At least that would be an excuse (although not a good one).

    Or do you just think the game will be better off with staggered releases.  You think what they are doing is best for the game.

    But what if they really wanted to do A at the time?  

    You are jumping to a conclusion with and spreading misinformation by stating something that never happened as a fact.  You have admitted they havent lied, thus meaning that you have lied.  So yes, you are trying to deceive people.  

    You seem to want a world where developers have incentive to keep everything to themselves because god forbid their plans change.

    And in this case I dont have any issues with you thinking that its BS, but answering people's honest questions with an outright lie makes you look every bit as bad as you claim Kakao to be.


    I didn't use the word "lie".  It hardly matters, though.  The game will be worse because they are not doing something they said they would, for the sake of money.

    It's very simple.  

    You can jump through hoops and give them the benefit of the doubt all you want.  They no longer deserve that, at this point, however.

    Kakao has proven time and time again to just care about quick cash and will sacrifice the quality of the game at any chance they get if it means a little more.

    That is a fact.
    You have used the word lie in describing Daums actions this past month on a regular basis , and to say they Deceived ( deception) (untruth ) Is the same ...

        Aside from that you have no credibility on this subject , and should just move onto your next game(agenda)
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