Real or faked makes no difference to me. I want to see how it works in alpha then beta then after launch.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Looking at the footage you see the guy right up front and that is when you see the full starscape.
The next time you see from the "inside" the player is further back in the ship and then moves back. The quality of the light is different and you see the star scape looking different.
You are saying this is evidence of different footage and I'm saying that once farther from the front the computer renders less outside and treats the inside of the ship differently.
I'm not a developer but I bet a few developers here could comment better on how the software treats "outside in space" and "inside as ship". I'm betting dollars to donuts the "inside of the ship" is a completely different place with different rules.
So if he is further inside the ship then why does the dead ship look bigger and clearer? It is OBVIOUSLY a lot further away before that cut scene. We know its around 280 meters or so from the guy when it looks like a blob surrounded by light. So if he moves back inside the hanger and he is then 285 or more away why does it look likes its right there?
When you look outside during the portion I screenshot and you look at the 7 to 10 oclock portion of the screen all I see is stars, what could be an steroid or possibly a galaxy, and some out of focus light orbs. There isnt anything remotely resembling a ship, the ship is in the middle of the screen and the only thing that even lets you know it is there are the flashes of light i mentioned before. You cant possibly make out a ship even exists in that view. Then you flash past the cut scene and wham bam, a PERFECTLY rendered ship with detail and explosions and it looks like it is 50 feet away. Another thing is that after the cut screen you appear to be 'on level' with that ship but before you were 'below' it.
People are gong to see what they want to see like I said and you guys will convince yourselves that there is nothing wrong with those videos (what you think is one continuous real time gameplay session).
I remember pointing out the problems with the Nyx landing and all its stuttering and cutting away and people made those same exact arguments you guys try to make now. Well we all now know that was all a prerecorded farce. I guess this one will eventually be seen that way as well. But for now people will keep burying their heads in the sand.
Real or faked makes no difference to me. I want to see how it works in alpha then beta then after launch.
Seriously this thread is nothing but someone's view and opinion of something discarding anything others said that doesn't fit what he claimed as the ones who have their heads on the sand. "I'm right and you are wrong because you have a different opinion of me, my opinions are FACTS!".
I think there is a quite easy way to shut up this drama towards it being faked or not.
Is reach out to the journalists that were presented with the same demo we saw before we saw it, and see if they saw the same thing, specially if the Dragonfly also had the invisible bug on their demo.
If they didn't, then that pretty much debunks this BS about it being pre-recorded. And rodarin can keep doing what he is doing: screaming in space (in the form of walls of text).
Yea because they couldnt make a few versions of the same 'demo'.
If a journalist posts a video on youtube that doesnt show the inconsistencies this one does I might make more concessions.
Or if they REALLY want to make it so no one can question this they can make ANOTHER presentation of just this portion and have THREE UNINTERRUPTED views of everything going on. So you have the view of the guy on the dragon fly, the guy in the ship and someone in a space ship following the dragonfly and watching it dock with zero cut scenes and zero changes of point of view.
That whole sequence took about 2.5 minutes, from the time they uncovered the dragonfly until they closed the hanger door, so its basically a nothing segment in the grand scheme of a game.
So how about they just make a 2 minute and 30 second seamless continuous three person viewpoint of this mission?
Real or faked makes no difference to me. I want to see how it works in alpha then beta then after launch.
Seriously this thread is nothing but someone's view and opinion of something discarding anything others said that doesn't fit what he claimed as the ones who have their heads on the sand. "I'm right and you are wrong because you have a different opinion of me, my opinions are FACTS!".
Hell with that.
As opposed to your rant in that thread where you were posting on things that were mostly opinion based and claiming your point of view as fact? And commenting to every single person who said something you didnt agree with?
I am pointing out VIDEO inconsistencies that really dont leave a lot to interpretation. SOME of the time stamps and time issues MIGHT possibly be argued but when theyre consistent for one portion and then totally inconsistent in the part I say doesnt mesh it sort of 'proves' what I claim.
While everything within each portion matches up with stuff with in their own portion, as a whole they do not mesh together, and that should be irrefutable to anyone that bothers to watch the video and maybe go back and forth a little bit to see where it starts to break down.
@ rodarin: for the sake of the discussion i will not right out dismiss your claim. In this day and age no one can be 100% about anything so i won't put my hand on fire about said landing being legit.
However, once i saw a wall of text like yours where someone presented similar "facts" in an attempt to "prove" that the U.S never made it to the moon.
Well lets look at this a little bit closer. We have absolute proof that we did make it to the moon. You can even see the landing site with good enough optics. On the other hand, there's very strong evidence that we had a backup plan to fake it in case something went terribly wrong. I think some people take the evidence of the backup plan and run full bore with it and end up believing we never went.
I'm not above believing that SC, or many many other companies, have a backup plan during presentations of this sort. Sometimes things just break, and having one plan is not having a plan at all. You can't have thousands or even millions of people watching a presentation and then go full Michael Bay on them. You gotta deliver something.
At 1:19:43 when Chris? turns left you can slightly see the right "wing" of the Dragonfly on the bottom right corner. It looks bit messy because his turning but it seems like the Dragonfly reappeared. Watch it in slow mode.
did you notice how when he was going down in the lift, the ship outside either wasnt moving in a vertical motion or matched the speed of the elevator exactly. That's just not possible. I'm calling the police.
"Trump is a blunt force, all-American, laser-guided middle finger to everything and everyone in Washington, D.C." - Wayne Allyn Root
Looking at the footage you see the guy right up front and that is when you see the full starscape.
The next time you see from the "inside" the player is further back in the ship and then moves back. The quality of the light is different and you see the star scape looking different.
You are saying this is evidence of different footage and I'm saying that once farther from the front the computer renders less outside and treats the inside of the ship differently.
I'm not a developer but I bet a few developers here could comment better on how the software treats "outside in space" and "inside as ship". I'm betting dollars to donuts the "inside of the ship" is a completely different place with different rules.
ANOTHER thing that debunks that is if you let the footage roll and when he goes back to close the hanger door that ship does not distort back to what it was before the cut scene. Its isnt even exactly like it was before the 'glitch'. But if you pause it at 1:19:56 you get a view that doesnt match either of the others, but its fast and even pausing it causes a blur, so not sure what that is all about. But it still resembles the inside view more than the view (from the same spot) that happened before the cut scene.
Also did you notice that the guy who was meant to be a scripted NPC was actually not a computer generation but was Russell Crowe pretnding to be an NPC. The lengths they will go to to try and cover up this scam
"Trump is a blunt force, all-American, laser-guided middle finger to everything and everyone in Washington, D.C." - Wayne Allyn Root
So they make several pre-recorded versions of the same 1 HOUR long demo to show the backers and media....
Everything but expect the demo was live. The biggest of this was close to the end when the guy was struggling with the Rover to get past one object he wasn't seeing and they had to improvise for a bit to make time to catch up with him reaching the station.
But ofc faked and recorded, allow us, the poor deluded backers of Star Citizen to think otherwise.
I was receptive to your ideas as a possibility until you suggested that you believe the moon landing was faked. I'm certain you believe that as firmly as you believe this SC game play was faked. Since there is tons of evidence to prove the moon landing beyond a reasonable doubt and yet you still choose not to believe in it, I don't feel very confident with your conclusions regarding this SC demonstration. Especially because you state you don't believe in the moon landing because "where's mah HD pictures?!?!"
You are trying to assert that in front of a variety of people, people in the room, that they somehow interspersed recorded footage with actual live footage? As you clearly see the 2nd player tap with his right hand and at that moment his avatar moves. He is clearly doing something. And if the cameras are behind these guys the entire time then everything they are doing is being watched as they play.
The problem here is you are trying to make assertions based upon cut up footage.
If people could always be watching the players while they are watching the screens, as clearly they could, then it would have been evident to the people in the room that something was amiss.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
You are trying to assert that in front of a variety of people, people in the room, that they somehow interspersed recorded footage with actual live footage? As you clearly see the 2nd player tap with his right hand and at that moment his avatar moves. He is clearly doing something. And if the cameras are behind these guys the entire time then everything they are doing is being watched as they play.
The problem here is you are trying to make assertions based upon cut up footage.
If people could always be watching the players while they are watching the screens, as clearly they could, then it would have been evident to the people in the room that something was amiss.
No I dont think it was 'live' at all. I think what they showed here was prerecorded, maybe not all of it but a lot of it. Especially the portions involving the dragonfly. Even some of the footage where they go to the planet and the dragonfly leaves the ship. It leaves the ship at a high velocity and even though the ship appears to use its thrusters (from the DF point of view the PiP view still shows the ship at 0 velocity.) But again all this was conveniently done around a change of perspective and first and third person views.
I dont know what journalists saw or what they didnt see. But its unlikely they saw (more correctly,noticed) anything untoward either because you have to be looking for something to see it. If theyre focusing on the big shiny they miss the things I point out here that arent consistent.
I guess we will all know in 4 months because if this doesnt make it in the game or mysteriously gets scrapped or something 'leaks' about it I will be sure to bump this and make everyone who tried to explain it away look like they always have when these come up and they defend them only to be proven wrong, time and time again.
They had 4 people on that planet, or 4 possible views so why did they only have two views of the dragonfly portion? During the 'assault' portion they showed all 4. Also very coincidental that he was almost frantic when he was trying to get them to 'switch' to the guy who blew up a second after they finally got to him. Like he knew it was going ot happen and he wanted it to be shown.
I think they prerecorded each individual perspective and had them all synced up and then just switched back and forth in 'real time' to make it look like it was all happening together. At least in that assault phase.
But everything I have put forth is basically backed by what they have said, instances within instances within instances. Now suddenly theyre showing this massive mission space with a dead starfarer, a dragonfly taking off from it (that seemed seamless so I think that is possible) and a freelancer and that same dragonfly landing on the freelancer seamlessly?
Which also raises a point I had about the guy leaving the hanger and opening doors and 'coming back' into the hanger, thinking that would 'reload' that part and make the dragonfly appear again? They never showed his view again so we dont know if it stayed bugged or not, just that the pilot got off it and it was there. Again after a convenient perspective change and some really sketchy camera movements.
@rodarin There are too many variables to draw a solid conclusion about the gameplay being fake. You can easily call this server lag. When you move in a mmo the server does try to project the movement onto another computer and they do stuff for latency that is kinda confusing. So I could be moving and stop but another player on another computer still see's me moving because the lag didn't read fast enough to make the character stop moving. That is how teleport and speed hacks work and the likes. Considering CIG's many problems I wouldn't expect their servers to act like WOW's when it comes to stuff like this.
Now if they are just playing LAN version which is possible but highly unlikely considering they would need a computer to act as a server and would just be a waste of time when they could use their home servers. It is possible you are correct but to draw these conclusions without further proof wouldn't be wise.
@rodarin There are too many variables to draw a solid conclusion about the gameplay being fake. You can easily call this server lag. When you move in a mmo the server does try to project the movement onto another computer and they do stuff for latency that is kinda confusing. So I could be moving and stop but another player on another computer still see's me moving because the lag didn't read fast enough to make the character stop moving. That is how teleport and speed hacks work and the likes. Considering CIG's many problems I wouldn't expect their servers to act like WOW's when it comes to stuff like this.
Now if they are just playing LAN version which is possible but highly unlikely considering they would need a computer to act as a server and would just be a waste of time when they could use their home servers. It is possible you are correct but to draw these conclusions without further proof wouldn't be wise.
yes that would explain some of the math and time stamp stuff but the inconsistencies would still be constant, which they sort of are.
But it doesnt explain why there is no dragonfly in the first portion when "Danny" is looking out into space and the Dragonfly closes from 290 meters to 45, per the distance UI itself. but then when they switch the view and start the docking video the dragonfly is perfectly visible and looks like it should have been seen all the way in. It also doesnt explain why those two views also show the Starfarer in totally different position as well as quality.
In the open space portion neither the starfarer NOR the Dragonfly is visible, even though from the dragonfly point of view its is getting closer and closer to the freelancer. Then almost magically when they have the cut scene and change of perspective BOTH the starfarer and the dragonfly are visible in super high quality and definition.
We can debate all the other stuff all we want but the 'coincidence' of the differences in those (to me) obvious changing between two separate videos are too extreme to push aside.
Ah I see what you are talking about. The way SC is suppose to be setup that interior of the ship is actually on a different server. While the guy was standing at the open hatch he could have been considered as outside of that ship and when he stepped back you saw the new viewpoint which included the wreck and bike. I know thats kinda stretch but if it really was a fake demonstration then I believe there would be more inconsistencies throughout the video and not just this one segment. It is a good catch on your part to notice something like that.
Ah I see what you are talking about. The way SC is suppose to be setup that interior of the ship is actually on a different server. While the guy was standing at the open hatch he could have been considered as outside of that ship and when he stepped back you saw the new viewpoint which included the wreck and bike. I know thats kinda stretch but if it really was a fake demonstration then I believe there would be more inconsistencies throughout the video and not just this one segment. It is a good catch on your part to notice something like that.
Each segment is consistent. So the part where theyre on the ship and shooting guys is all seamless and consistent and then they find the dragonfly and they hop on it. There is a small hyper technical issue there, the floating box right before the get on the dragonfly appears to drift from left to right over the dragonfly but when he is sitting on it that box appears to be up and to hid left in a spot where it was before he boarded the dragonfly. So while it should be on his right side at probably 5 oclock on the screen when he is mounted its floating at about his 9 oclock and right in his face. Only reason I mention it is that location discrepancy as well as the little hitch where he mounts the dragonfly which could be a splice point. This occurs between 1:17:44 when the box clearly floats across the nose of the bike, and when he is mounts its back up where I said it was.
Again it might be nothing or it could be they cant seamlessly launch the dragonfly like that from the FPS/EVA 'mode'. So they get into the mode where they start another seamless portion of the video which runs from that point until the point I have tried to highlight.
Basically what I am saying is they can compartmentalize and segment each portion individually, but they cannot make them all happen in a seamless way like they claim. In the video it appears they do, until you start seeing these issues and coincidental cut scenes and inexplicable (at least to me) changes in quality, position and distance of certain 'common' objects in each environment.
Comments
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
When you look outside during the portion I screenshot and you look at the 7 to 10 oclock portion of the screen all I see is stars, what could be an steroid or possibly a galaxy, and some out of focus light orbs. There isnt anything remotely resembling a ship, the ship is in the middle of the screen and the only thing that even lets you know it is there are the flashes of light i mentioned before. You cant possibly make out a ship even exists in that view. Then you flash past the cut scene and wham bam, a PERFECTLY rendered ship with detail and explosions and it looks like it is 50 feet away. Another thing is that after the cut screen you appear to be 'on level' with that ship but before you were 'below' it.
People are gong to see what they want to see like I said and you guys will convince yourselves that there is nothing wrong with those videos (what you think is one continuous real time gameplay session).
I remember pointing out the problems with the Nyx landing and all its stuttering and cutting away and people made those same exact arguments you guys try to make now. Well we all now know that was all a prerecorded farce. I guess this one will eventually be seen that way as well. But for now people will keep burying their heads in the sand.
Hell with that.
If a journalist posts a video on youtube that doesnt show the inconsistencies this one does I might make more concessions.
Or if they REALLY want to make it so no one can question this they can make ANOTHER presentation of just this portion and have THREE UNINTERRUPTED views of everything going on. So you have the view of the guy on the dragon fly, the guy in the ship and someone in a space ship following the dragonfly and watching it dock with zero cut scenes and zero changes of point of view.
That whole sequence took about 2.5 minutes, from the time they uncovered the dragonfly until they closed the hanger door, so its basically a nothing segment in the grand scheme of a game.
So how about they just make a 2 minute and 30 second seamless continuous three person viewpoint of this mission?
I am pointing out VIDEO inconsistencies that really dont leave a lot to interpretation. SOME of the time stamps and time issues MIGHT possibly be argued but when theyre consistent for one portion and then totally inconsistent in the part I say doesnt mesh it sort of 'proves' what I claim.
While everything within each portion matches up with stuff with in their own portion, as a whole they do not mesh together, and that should be irrefutable to anyone that bothers to watch the video and maybe go back and forth a little bit to see where it starts to break down.
I'm not above believing that SC, or many many other companies, have a backup plan during presentations of this sort. Sometimes things just break, and having one plan is not having a plan at all. You can't have thousands or even millions of people watching a presentation and then go full Michael Bay on them. You gotta deliver something.
"Trump is a blunt force, all-American, laser-guided middle finger to everything and everyone in Washington, D.C." - Wayne Allyn Root
"Trump is a blunt force, all-American, laser-guided middle finger to everything and everyone in Washington, D.C." - Wayne Allyn Root
Everything but expect the demo was live. The biggest of this was close to the end when the guy was struggling with the Rover to get past one object he wasn't seeing and they had to improvise for a bit to make time to catch up with him reaching the station.
But ofc faked and recorded, allow us, the poor deluded backers of Star Citizen to think otherwise.
Steam: Neph
this was a live event.
You are trying to assert that in front of a variety of people, people in the room, that they somehow interspersed recorded footage with actual live footage? As you clearly see the 2nd player tap with his right hand and at that moment his avatar moves. He is clearly doing something. And if the cameras are behind these guys the entire time then everything they are doing is being watched as they play.
The problem here is you are trying to make assertions based upon cut up footage.
If people could always be watching the players while they are watching the screens, as clearly they could, then it would have been evident to the people in the room that something was amiss.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I dont know what journalists saw or what they didnt see. But its unlikely they saw (more correctly,noticed) anything untoward either because you have to be looking for something to see it. If theyre focusing on the big shiny they miss the things I point out here that arent consistent.
I guess we will all know in 4 months because if this doesnt make it in the game or mysteriously gets scrapped or something 'leaks' about it I will be sure to bump this and make everyone who tried to explain it away look like they always have when these come up and they defend them only to be proven wrong, time and time again.
They had 4 people on that planet, or 4 possible views so why did they only have two views of the dragonfly portion? During the 'assault' portion they showed all 4. Also very coincidental that he was almost frantic when he was trying to get them to 'switch' to the guy who blew up a second after they finally got to him. Like he knew it was going ot happen and he wanted it to be shown.
I think they prerecorded each individual perspective and had them all synced up and then just switched back and forth in 'real time' to make it look like it was all happening together. At least in that assault phase.
But everything I have put forth is basically backed by what they have said, instances within instances within instances. Now suddenly theyre showing this massive mission space with a dead starfarer, a dragonfly taking off from it (that seemed seamless so I think that is possible) and a freelancer and that same dragonfly landing on the freelancer seamlessly?
Which also raises a point I had about the guy leaving the hanger and opening doors and 'coming back' into the hanger, thinking that would 'reload' that part and make the dragonfly appear again? They never showed his view again so we dont know if it stayed bugged or not, just that the pilot got off it and it was there. Again after a convenient perspective change and some really sketchy camera movements.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GucYhhLwIxg
Also go to 28:29 and you will see the exact same people in the exact same clothes playing the game on the exact same equipment.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Now if they are just playing LAN version which is possible but highly unlikely considering they would need a computer to act as a server and would just be a waste of time when they could use their home servers. It is possible you are correct but to draw these conclusions without further proof wouldn't be wise.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.
But it doesnt explain why there is no dragonfly in the first portion when "Danny" is looking out into space and the Dragonfly closes from 290 meters to 45, per the distance UI itself. but then when they switch the view and start the docking video the dragonfly is perfectly visible and looks like it should have been seen all the way in. It also doesnt explain why those two views also show the Starfarer in totally different position as well as quality.
In the open space portion neither the starfarer NOR the Dragonfly is visible, even though from the dragonfly point of view its is getting closer and closer to the freelancer. Then almost magically when they have the cut scene and change of perspective BOTH the starfarer and the dragonfly are visible in super high quality and definition.
We can debate all the other stuff all we want but the 'coincidence' of the differences in those (to me) obvious changing between two separate videos are too extreme to push aside.
Again it might be nothing or it could be they cant seamlessly launch the dragonfly like that from the FPS/EVA 'mode'. So they get into the mode where they start another seamless portion of the video which runs from that point until the point I have tried to highlight.
Basically what I am saying is they can compartmentalize and segment each portion individually, but they cannot make them all happen in a seamless way like they claim. In the video it appears they do, until you start seeing these issues and coincidental cut scenes and inexplicable (at least to me) changes in quality, position and distance of certain 'common' objects in each environment.