When is a Premium XP Boost Pay-to-Win?

BitterClinger

Disclaimer: This poll is anonymous. It is for informational purposes only. It's not a trick question. It is not related to any specific game title.

immodium

Personally, even if xp boosts are objectively classed as pay to win, I don't class them as bad.

If certain game mechanics gamer's want to play are gated behind level or gear rating, or catch up with friends I'm all for them.

Also I'd like to add. You can buy a Tortoise Stone in LOTRO that actually stops xp so you don't out level areas. Would that be classed as Pay to Lose?

tinuelle

Isnt a premium xp boost just a substitute for time to play? A way for those employed to catch up with those that got time to game all day (unfair!!!!!)?

Daikuru

IMO you dont win anything and i dont care if people reach faster max level via xp boost.
PvE cant be P2W in my opinion, theres nothing to win, at least for casual players.

Vrika

tinuelle said:

Isnt a premium xp boost just a substitute for time to play? A way for those employed to catch up with those that got time to game all day (unfair!!!!!)?

On that logic, there also needs to be a boost to get max level character with best available end-game gear.

Employed people should be able to buy it from web so that they won't have to waste their valuable time installing the game client.

Kyleran

Vrika said:

tinuelle said:

Isnt a premium xp boost just a substitute for time to play? A way for those employed to catch up with those that got time to game all day (unfair!!!!!)?

On that logic, there also needs to be a boost to get max level character with best available end-game gear.

Employed people should be able to buy it from web so that they won't have to waste their valuable time installing the game client.

Outstanding idea, I hate downloading and installing new games.

BitterClinger

As a hypothetical... what if we had no level cap (or a soft cap) and open world PVP?

Would that mean that instead of 'buying time', you really are 'buying power'? Or is it still just buying time?

tinuelle

BitterClinger said:

As a hypothetical... what if we had no level cap (or a soft cap) and open world PVP?

Would that mean that instead of 'buying time', you really are 'buying power'? Or is it still just buying time?

Depends.
If it takes a month to reach lvl 30 and 3 months to reach lvl 40 and 2 lvl 30 easily ganks a lvl 40 cause they got 20 lvls on him its all good.....hypothetically speaking

But if you got lots of time you are a winner in gaming. If you got lots of time and money you are Mythical in gaming

VestigeGamer

tinuelle said:

BitterClinger said:

As a hypothetical... what if we had no level cap (or a soft cap) and open world PVP?

Would that mean that instead of 'buying time', you really are 'buying power'? Or is it still just buying time?

Depends.
If it takes a month to reach lvl 30 and 3 months to reach lvl 40 and 2 lvl 30 easily ganks a lvl 40 cause they got 20 lvls on him its all good.....hypothetically speaking

But if you got lots of time you are a winner in gaming. If you got lots of time and money you are Mythical in gaming

"Winning" is not necessarily just PvP related.  I hope we all play games to waste time.  If one buys ways to NOT play the game, why bother playing in the first place?  "Winning" can mean being able to get to more rare materials for crafting, then getting to the auction house quicker than others, who don't pay to win.

If the game is "too boring", "too much of a grind", "takes too long", or any number of "let me buy my way the top" excuse, best to find another hobby.  One that has more of an instant gratification mechanic.

Hell, MMOs today only take a month to max out anyway.  You don't even have that much time to play?

Asm0deus

Daikuru said:

IMO you dont win anything and i dont care if people reach faster max level via xp boost.
PvE cant be P2W in my opinion, theres nothing to win, at least for casual players.

I posted this in another p2w thread but same thing here.  P2w is an expression and  you don't need to "win" a medal or competition for something to be p2w.  P2w is an expression people use when some people use money from outside the game world to get an advantage within the game world.


IMO people try to define it in detail way to much.

You have virtual world game world and you earn everything in game, I feel this world should be a closed ecosystem, IE no outside of the game world influence.

P2w is when you bring something into the "closed ecosystem game world" from outside this ecosystem.

It's all about what kind of p2w you can accept.

Kyleran

Asm0deus said:

Daikuru said:

IMO you dont win anything and i dont care if people reach faster max level via xp boost.
PvE cant be P2W in my opinion, theres nothing to win, at least for casual players.

P2w is when you bring something into the "closed ecosystem game world" from outside this ecosystem.

You mean like macro capable mice/keyboards, high speed/low ping Internet connections and add-ons right?

I agree, none of those should be permitted.

Always someone, somewhere, somehow will have an "advantage" over you, rarely is it a "win" however.

Loke666

 Gaining XP faster is a huge factor in PvP games with classic levelmechanics. Being higher level faster mean that you easily can beat players who start at the same time as you just after a few hours played. 

In PvE it is fuzzier, basically are you paying not to play with seems stupid to me, but many games include boring parts so you want to pay to skip that content. That backfires pretty often though and I just quit playing if I get bored enough since I assumes that the game will become even more boring if I skip further ahead.

XP boosters are hardly the worst P2win mechanics in MMOs but they are the most pointless. Gaining XP should be fun and if you can't make it that way you should skip XP and levels altogether. Adding boring content to earn money is short sighted and have the potential to kill F2P games.

Selling max level slots is even worse, then you make the entire leveling process obsolete wasting all the content you put into it (which usually is 60-90% of the games content.

Asm0deus

Kyleran said:

Asm0deus said:

Daikuru said:

IMO you dont win anything and i dont care if people reach faster max level via xp boost.
PvE cant be P2W in my opinion, theres nothing to win, at least for casual players.

P2w is when you bring something into the "closed ecosystem game world" from outside this ecosystem.

You mean like macro capable mice/keyboards, high speed/low ping Internet connections and add-ons right?

I agree, none of those should be permitted.

Always someone, somewhere, somehow will have an "advantage" over you, rarely is it a "win" however.

Indeed and some games dont allow macros from devices etc.   Like I said the term is an expression and you don't need to "win" anything.

As for net connections I think your confusing game requirements with the topic at hand.

cameltosis

Reaching maximum level is a win scenario for many players, so in that respect paying money to help you reach that win scenario quicker than normal players is p2w. 

For me, personally, I don't consider reaching max level a win scenario, rather it is a hurdle I must overcome before I can start enjoying the game properly, so to me I'd consider it a convenience item rather than p2w (however, I'd never buy such an item as I disagree with cash shops). Also, if xp boosts give you more than 50% advantage then it indicates that the developers are acting unethically and are shortsighted, so it would actually contribute to me quitting such a game. 

Octagon7711

P2W for me only applies in PvP.  PvE game play is endless.

Aeander

Depends on the mechanics of the game. If there is a cap on progression, xp boosts are not pay to win. If progression has the possibility to be unlimited (as in BDO), xp boosts are pay to win.

Nilden

P2W is not just binary. There is a severity. It has degrees.

Sure you just paid real money but how much and for how much?

Is it 10% more xp? How about 50% more xp? what about 100% more xp? 1,000% more xp? 10,000%?

Did it cost 25 cents? $5 dollars? $10 dollars? $25 dollars? $100 dollars?

How long does the boost last? 1 hour? 2 hours? 1 day? 2 days? a week?

Calling a 25 cent 10% xp boost that last an hour P2W would be almost irrelevant saying the same about a 10,000% xp boost for a week for $100 dollars, well, people will probably call that P2W BS.

thompdre12

I just don't see the point in PVE. I was playing Lotro and got legitimately annoyed that all of my bag space was slot after slot of some kind of buff for crafting, leveling, etc. I really just wanted to play through the quests and level with the story. That's what WoW got correct (early on): Just play the game, no buffs. If you wanted to level quickly, you had to find a guild. Why have a game that people want to skip all of the content? I remember modding Skyrim when I bought it for PC, and quickly realized making myself a "god" made the game really, really boring. The fun is the journey, at least for me. I'm sure there's a bunch of people out there that hitting max level/becoming invincible is the fun part. And all this coming from someone who works full time and has family obligations that leave me little time to participate more than a couple hours a week into gaming.

jmcdermottuk

If it's PvE then no, not pay to win. Co-op play means any advantage someone gets benefits all.

Some games have different xp for PvP. If that was boosted I'd have to say yes, pay to win. Gaining power in PvP at a higher rate, access to more skills or better gear, that's an advantage.

CrazKanuk

I would consider it to be P2W if there is no level cap. That's the only time it would be P2W because you could essentially pay to advance beyond what anyone else could, reasonably and since there's no cap, they could, technically, never catch up with you. 

Allerleirauh

Octagon7711 said:

P2W for me only applies in PvP.  PvE game play is endless.

I disagree, most people complain about games being P2W when they involve PvP because that is usually the nature of PvP games. However, a game can still be P2W without being a PvP game. Most of the games that I play are mainly PvE games, but you still need to be geared appropriately to be accepted into raids,etc. it's not just a PvP issue. For example, some gear (accessories) can only be unlocked with credits, PvE gamers can still have an issue with the P2W model, it's just more prevalent in games that are heavily PvP. That's just one example; there are many other examples depending on which game that you are playing. 

That being said, I don't believe a premium XP boost is P2W, but my opinion would be different if it were a PvP game, particularly with open world PvP, where it would be important to level and gear quickly.

Kyleran

Asm0deus said:

Kyleran said:

Asm0deus said:

Daikuru said:

IMO you dont win anything and i dont care if people reach faster max level via xp boost.
PvE cant be P2W in my opinion, theres nothing to win, at least for casual players.

P2w is when you bring something into the "closed ecosystem game world" from outside this ecosystem.

You mean like macro capable mice/keyboards, high speed/low ping Internet connections and add-ons right?

I agree, none of those should be permitted.

Always someone, somewhere, somehow will have an "advantage" over you, rarely is it a "win" however.

Indeed and some games dont allow macros from devices etc.   Like I said the term is an expression and you don't need to "win" anything.

As for net connections I think your confusing game requirements with the topic at hand.

If the term P2W is just an expression, it's meaningless for discussion as there is very specific differences between advantage and win.

You've never heard someone has an advantage or disadvantage based on how good their internet connection is or how low or high their ping times are?

No confusion on my side, but on yours.......yeah.

Eldurian

Premium to _____ is never pay to win. Freemium games are essentially games with a free trial of unlimited length, that will allow you to still kind of play if you are too poor to afford your sub for a month or two.

If you get into a Freemium game with the intention of playing for free forever and being competitive, you don't understand their monetization model. They are one step short of 15$/mo to have any ability to play at all. Not a charity model.

Avanah

The moment you buy it.

waynejr2

Kyleran said:

Asm0deus said:

Kyleran said:

Asm0deus said:

Daikuru said:

IMO you dont win anything and i dont care if people reach faster max level via xp boost.
PvE cant be P2W in my opinion, theres nothing to win, at least for casual players.

P2w is when you bring something into the "closed ecosystem game world" from outside this ecosystem.

You mean like macro capable mice/keyboards, high speed/low ping Internet connections and add-ons right?

I agree, none of those should be permitted.

Always someone, somewhere, somehow will have an "advantage" over you, rarely is it a "win" however.

Indeed and some games dont allow macros from devices etc.   Like I said the term is an expression and you don't need to "win" anything.

As for net connections I think your confusing game requirements with the topic at hand.

If the term P2W is just an expression, it's meaningless for discussion as there is very specific differences between advantage and win.

You've never heard someone has an advantage or disadvantage based on how good their internet connection is or how low or high their ping times are?

No confusion on my side, but on yours.......yeah.

Actually, I have heard Internet connection speed used as a term for advantage.  Back in the 90s when USA had a lot more issues with Internet access and speeds, but it existed.  But that was a long time ago.

FYI, people have also used hardware differences as that excuse as well. 

I personally thought a number of game mods were cheats but that is off topic.

It is all bullcrap.

CrazKanuk

waynejr2 said:

Kyleran said:

Asm0deus said:

Kyleran said:

Asm0deus said:

Daikuru said:

IMO you dont win anything and i dont care if people reach faster max level via xp boost.
PvE cant be P2W in my opinion, theres nothing to win, at least for casual players.

P2w is when you bring something into the "closed ecosystem game world" from outside this ecosystem.

You mean like macro capable mice/keyboards, high speed/low ping Internet connections and add-ons right?

I agree, none of those should be permitted.

Always someone, somewhere, somehow will have an "advantage" over you, rarely is it a "win" however.

Indeed and some games dont allow macros from devices etc.   Like I said the term is an expression and you don't need to "win" anything.

As for net connections I think your confusing game requirements with the topic at hand.

If the term P2W is just an expression, it's meaningless for discussion as there is very specific differences between advantage and win.

You've never heard someone has an advantage or disadvantage based on how good their internet connection is or how low or high their ping times are?

No confusion on my side, but on yours.......yeah.

Actually, I have heard Internet connection speed used as a term for advantage.  Back in the 90s when USA had a lot more issues with Internet access and speeds, but it existed.  But that was a long time ago.

FYI, people have also used hardware differences as that excuse as well. 

I personally thought a number of game mods were cheats but that is off topic.

It is all bullcrap.

Do NOT joke! I bought a house 3 years ago believing that there was cable Internet there, since it was right down the road. NOPE!!!!! I went from 50mb to 6mb. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu.......... 

Luckily I was joking with a phone guy last year and came to discover that the phone company put in an upgraded appliance in the area and I could get my 50mb connection back. When you have like 4 kids streaming videos it makes so.... much.... difference!!! I have a disadvantage because I have kids!!!