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Roma Victor: What we've all been waiting for.
Thinman
Member Posts: 461
It's safe to say that Roma Victor is the only next-gen MMOG in development right now.. There have been a number of very thought-provoking and in-depth posts about the "Death of MMOGs", basically saying that the genre has been stale for awhile now, that no one is innovating, and that there was nothing on the horizon in terms of MMOG gameplay, originality, or risk-taking.
Now, Roma Victor has come along, and the gaming community is beginning to take notice, en-masse.
Anything that is done with the creativity, the understanding of the medium, and the balls-out attitude with which RedBedlam has developed RV, can only eclipse any stale, no-risk-taking, weak attempt at "next-gen", which a company which doesn't have these traits attempts. (Sorry about the run-on sentence, it's been an 8-hour day with no letup.)
And because of the way that they have done things, and are doing things, they've created a murmur in the MMOG community, which is growing into a roar.
What's my point... I guess I'm just saying, 3 cheers for the underdogs who know what the hell is going on, maybe the big companies will take notice and change their ways. And even if they don't, who cares, we don't need them.
_______________________________________________________________________
Looking forward (cautiously) to: Age of Conan, Dark Solstice, Armada Online.
Will soon try: Guild Wars
Overall: Amazed and bewhildered at the current sad state of the artform of gaming.
Comments
If all the larger companies get some sence knocked into their head than the big companies will make some games that will make Roma Victor look pathetic....well...not pathetic but just like any other mmorpg. But Roma Victor....yeah
I don't know if the big companies are capable of such a thing. It seems like anytime a big company even gets their hands on a game that's good, they ruin it.
There's so much that's wrong with corporations, and therefore with big companies, which naturally sinks itself into games that they make.. lack of risk-taking, fear of doing anything that may make people unhappy or upset in their games (no death penalty, etc), and just the very fact that they have to please the investors first, and the gamers second... all of these things combine to make the games that they make either dull, uninspired, lifeless, non-innovative, soul-less...
I guess I'm getting off track here from Roma Victor... but I'm just saying, the soul has been taken out of mainstream game making, and there are very few large gaming houses that still make quality games. There are some there, but they are the minority.
And so, 3 cheers for the guys who still know how to make a good game.
_______________________________________________________________________
Looking forward (cautiously) to: Age of Conan, Dark Solstice, Armada Online.
Will soon try: Guild Wars
Overall: Amazed and bewhildered at the current sad state of the artform of gaming.
Let's hope that Roma Victor is a smashing success so that the big boys WILL take notice and see that they can make a serious adult oriented game with penalties for mistakes and STILL make the gobs of cash that the shareholders require.
Only one thing will make or break this game: the fun factor.
If it's fun, it will spread like a brushfire throughout the gaming community. I really can't see how it wouldn't be fun, but you can't really tell until you get into the thick of it.
If all goes well, I will rule you ALL!
I don't know if the big companies are capable of such a thing. It seems like anytime a big company even gets their hands on a game that's good, they ruin it.
There's so much that's wrong with corporations, and therefore with big companies, which naturally sinks itself into games that they make.. lack of risk-taking, fear of doing anything that may make people unhappy or upset in their games (no death penalty, etc), and just the very fact that they have to please the investors first, and the gamers second... all of these things combine to make the games that they make either dull, uninspired, lifeless, non-innovative, soul-less...
I guess I'm getting off track here from Roma Victor... but I'm just saying, the soul has been taken out of mainstream game making, and there are very few large gaming houses that still make quality games. There are some there, but they are the minority.
And so, 3 cheers for the guys who still know how to make a good game.
I guess your right. All the high cost games seems to have a carebear death penalty (if you die you have the horror of going back to a spawn point with all your items. OMG I am so scared, help! The hard working people who are making Roma Victor (their name has left my mind) is doing everything I want in a mmorpg. I am just afraid that when the game is released that millions of people play the game and the devs forget the community (like they did in Runescape) and let things get out of hand and people who have trouble wont get the help they need (aka. auto messages). I so hope this will not happen.
I agree with you thinman, hopefully this game will make it. but BOY do i love the concepts! man i can't wait to test it, i'm dieing here.
I wouldn't say its what we all have been waiting for. I am sure ther will be one group unhappy, and complaining. I think it is safe to say its what most of us have been waiting for, I have been following this game since 2003, but I must say my patience is starting to fade...
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Head Admin: RomaVictor.org - Official Fan Site
You have been waiting for a game where players can buy coin made by the devs from thin air with real money?
Isn't that called duping?
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
Finally! We have been honoured with a troll from mmorpg's resident Super Troll!!
If only things were as simple as they are in your simple lil' redneck brain Jorev
No monthly subscription fee, in turn players can buy in game currency. This is how the Devs will earn their income. And if they did this in EQ2, WoW etc, this would be very bad. But why isn't it bad in RV?
Because there are no Sword of UberJorevdom, or Armour of Unbreakable Godliness etc. If you spend $100 of your own money, that money will go into buying higher quality resources for tradeskilling, off PLAYERs (thus distributing money ingame), or as a money SINK to buy Slaves' to work for you etc.
If you in turn wanted to spend $100 on an 'uber' sword, you might be able to get a very rare steel sword. But how does that help you? Well, it's stronger.. and sharper.... but if you don't have the PvP skills to weild that sword effectively, it means f' all.
And inflation is to be controlled by the Devs, meaning if there are 100s of dollars pumped into the ecomomy, there is an oversupply, and the worth drops. Economics etc.
If only it was as basic as an offhand statement. Maybe if you are going to follow this post up, supply us with "This will suck because.." and then myself, and others here, will actually listen with interest.
So yeah, if you want to make generic Troller statements without doing any real research, go ahead.
Then again, if you want to just f**k off and let those who are excited for the game talk about it, even better.
"(The) Iraqi people owe the American people a huge debt of gratitude." - George W Bush.
Oh. My. God.
Horney!
I love you!
Bye Bye!
That's right Jorev, and don't forget,
"If you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem."
I think I heard that somewhere recently.
_______________________________________________________________________
Looking forward (cautiously) to: Age of Conan, Dark Solstice, Armada Online.
Will soon try: Guild Wars
Overall: Amazed and bewhildered at the current sad state of the artform of gaming.
Actually there is a limit per month in how much you can recieve from donations.
hmm replied and it didn't show up haha. Probably have some random post on a thread somewhere looking completely out of place.
Anyways, yeah, and a limit on it makes this system even better imo.
Though there is no concrete setup yet for it anyways eh? But seems this is the way they'll go. I like it
For those with not much time to play, you can inject some money into the game and buy some decent gear etc.
For those of us with too much time on our hands, we can inject hardly any at all, and instead craft and create what we need, working together etc.
I like it
"(The) Iraqi people owe the American people a huge debt of gratitude." - George W Bush.
Oh. My. God.
..... I love you.
So are you saying that buying in game coin with real money does not help those who do?
Why would they do it then? You seem to be confused. It obviously does give those players an advantage over those that don't.
Being part of the solution is condemning games that cater to elitism based on how much you are willing to pay.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
no Jorev, your tiny brain dosnt seem to understand, people who buy ingame credit do get a benefit over the people that dont as they dont actualy have to earn their money in the game.
BUT it helps people who dont buy it because it injects more ingame credit into the community and if noone bought any of the devs then they would run out of money and therefore the game would collapse and noone would be able to play because they wouldnt fork out some real money for the benefit of evryone else. But from the people that i have herd of so far, mainly from this forum, it looks like theres a lot of cool people who would be willing to pay a small amount of money evry now and then wenever they hav nothin to spend it on and therefore keep the game running for the greater good. But people like you Jorev are probably going to be the people who just freeload and do stuff for themself in game without helping other people by making items for them and the like.
You Suck!
*EDIT* by the way Jorev, i seriously do hope you can actualy read, because from your last post it seems as though you didnt actualy look at what was said to you before about the currency system. But please tell me if this is too much writing for you to take in at once and then ill break it down into something smaller.
Horney!
I love you!
Bye Bye!
I can read just fine, and I can also read between the lines of this propaganda, in which you claim everyone will benefit from others buying their way thru the game. What a load of crap. To anyone with any sense at all, the fact that they are calling these purchases donations, should signal an alarm indicating the attempt to disguise reality.
Let the developers charge a low monthly fee and keep the game on a fair level playing field instead of trying to milk more money by charging for in game items and coin. Participating in a friendly competition where some of the participants are given a head start is retarded. Everyone will feel compelled to fork out more and more real money to avoid feeling inferior and left behind. This is how these types of games that rely on real money purchases are designed. They want to make as much money as possible, not just earn the minimum to pay the costs.
Maybe your tiny brain can admit that this is a greedy formula which does not promote an atmosphere where earning things yourself creates a sense of pride and accomplishment.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
I m only concerned about one thing, how so much reality from that period (180 AD) can be fun, still this game looks very interesting, and Jorev, take it easy m8, profit after all spin the world around. Why u think that with this game should be difrent ???
Jorev, RV is very much like the real world. You have people who will buy their freedom and people that will work for their freedom. Everyone does start off on a level playing field, it's just that some people will rise above others because they have money.
Besides, what in RV can you buy that would exactly make you better than others? There are no "Special Spear of Doom +100's" in this game; skills are the important thing. The only thing you can buy is a better weapon, armor, tools, and other things that mean nothing if you don't have the skills to use them.
ahaha Jorev, you got proved wrong there your argument is completely cancelled out.
Nice one Traken
Horney!
I love you!
Bye Bye!
How won't everybody benefit from this? I'll give you a bit of an example, somewhat taken from their forums about how to make a spear...don't remember where it was, but it was detailed in the process of creating one.
Anyways, person who paid for game money wants to train his fighting skills, and buys a player-crafted Iron Sword, due to its superior quality compared to the swords the NPC is selling. The player whom crafted it makes a small profit, after counting the price of the ore and the spearhead mold used for making the spearhead, the pole which acts as the handle for the spear, and anything else that might have been needed in this. This in the end pays the miners, woodcutters, the people who make the molds, and such. Through this, the money flows through the system...at first though, you may not find people paying as much for these items, due to the emerging economy. If they end up being a crafter instead of a fighter, they could use the purchased game money to obtain more materials and improve his/her skill more.
This doesn't cover everything the money will be used for, but if there are a number of player farmers, then the money you use to pay for food to eat will end up paying them as well, letting the money cycle through the economy more.
Trying to milk money? How do you know that that's what they're trying to do? To me, charging a monthly fee would be "milking more money" because of the number of people they're likely to attract. But, if you stand firm on that being their motive, think for a moment about the game's funding. Where did it come from? Answer: it was all provided privately or internally. They've been developing this game for two years, without a meaty paycheck to live off of. Besides, why would everyone feel that way? People could join cults or guilds or whatever and ask for help in training their skills, they could stand out in the streets and beg for donations ( which is seen in most games anyways ), or become a gladiator or join the Legion for their pay, for example.
Why is this such a bad idea, in a game that is designed with more abstract skill development and a dynamic economy? Remember, with skill deterioration, you can't mine for ore and craft with the metal you find, and hope to craft the finest jewelry; either you're going to be making jewelry that is above average at best, or you'll end up purchasing the metals you need rather than mining it yourself so that your crafting skill will improve more.
How so? Traken admits the game will give advantages to those who have and spend more real money? Is this aspect of real life something you enjoy in a virtual game, someplace you escape real life from? I guess you are one of those with money who enjoys the advantages it provides you over others, and you don't want to lose that benefit when playing in a virtual world either.
To suggest other players will gain equal benefits from those who buy coin and items with real money is disingenuous. If that were the case, then no one would mind if dupers and hackers flooded the market with coin created from thin air as well. Everyone will benefit equally when they spend the coin in game also.
Doesn't the concept of coin and items being created from thin air and not earned from the game environment bother you? What kind of economy does that foster? The virtual gameworld of RV does not exist, if the devs promote a system influenced by currency and items introduced from without.
On another note, what do you think will happen if "so called donations" don't meet the developers expectations of profit? Don't you think they will coerce players to spend more real money on coin and items by tweaking the game mechanics difficulty level of achievement ? Wake up and smell the coffee, cause that's how this "revolutionary model of revenue" works.
Many of you will be spending more than $15 a month to play RV, in the form of "so called donations", only to find your efforts eclipsed by someone spending more real money. Is that fun?
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
I've intentionally held out on posting in return, whilst waiting on actual fact from one of the Devs regarding their revenue model.
It is easy enough to write a post full of conjecture as to how this model will work, when in essence you have no idea, due to limits imposed etc (this goes both ways, not just at the trolls), and so I contacted the Devs and am waiting to hear what they say.
We could get a big list of positives and negatives going on such a model. And I am not close minded to seeing the possibilities from both sides.
As well as there being several points not touched on in this thread, by both sides of this argument.
This revenue model effectively means you can pay for free. On the negative that could mean you get left behind, or it very well might not. It could also mean that if free, the game might attract the Guild Wars crew (oh hell no!!), or that you need to outlay a lot to keep up.
Is all well and good being a fanboi or a flameboi, but with no solid evidence of the Devs' intentions to back up your arguments, it's all really conjecture. Having said that, if you have posts and links to current comments made by the Devs, please post em.
But then, if you're just here to slam something without having actual evidence, and taking the 'this is my opinion and it's right because I say so' approach, then really, what are you doing here?
Trolling for trolling's sake?
And don't say 'I'm trolling for your sake' etc, because if you actually cared what we think, you'd see the argument from both sides, which you don't seem to.
In all curiosity though, why are you even posting on the boards of a game that you obviously have no interest in?
***
Which hereby ends my response to trolls on this thread, because in effect all they are after is a negative response/reaction. And I recommend all do the same, really. He has no interest in the game, more in what kind of reaction he can get out of us.
Until he backs up his argument with counter-arguments to things the Devs posted in regards to the revenue model, he's just trolling. He may think his opinion matters, but after all, it's just that. An opinion.
As I said before though, I am more than willing to read and respond to informed, researched responses.
Have a good day.
"(The) Iraqi people owe the American people a huge debt of gratitude." - George W Bush.
Oh. My. God.
I have already stated that my reason for attacking games that use this " revolutionary revenue model", is because it is a disturbing trend that I don't approve of nor have any interest in participating in. I don't want this concept to catch on and become mainstream as that will limit my game choices in the future.
I have stated many reasons why I disapprove of it and you can agree or disagree, and the basis of my arguments either make sense to you or don't. Some of what I have stated can be proven from existing examples in other games that apply the same concept. Just because you may disagree with me, doesn't make me a troll. That is an immature response from someone who is faced with logical debate. Be equally as critical of the fanbois as the flamebois.
If you want to hold off until RV releases retail, and decide for yourself after trying it, that's fine, but if you spend more than $15 a month in donations in order to enjoy the game, then be honest enough to admit you are being taken advantage of in comparison to subscription games, and that it's not free to play.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
Well, it probably is enevitable that they'll have a number of people paying $10-25 a month, either for the reward they'll recieve ( which, by what you're saying, will probably be the leading reason ) or because they want to help support RedBedlam. Despite this, there will also be people like me whom will be paying nothing each month as they enjoy the gameplay, due to reasons such as their youth ( I'm 16, and I might end up buying the retail box as opposed to using my parent's credit card to get just the account key ), a lapse in income, or just because they don't want to spend much money on the game.
Even though it IS possible, I severally doubt that they would "coerce players to spend more real money on coin and items by tweaking the game mechanics." That would be their first move I know of where they favor their profit over the quality of the gameplay. If you just go to their forum, you can find a long post or two about their 'death penalty,' where they ignore what has been done in favor of something more fitting for the game.
Hm...now then, enlighten me: how would illegal activities producing mass ammount of coin be similar to the developers providing limited ammounts of coin? Therein lies a major difference: the ammount of coin that would be created. Think for a moment about when a duper would stop reproducing coin...by the time the duper would stop, he would be able to take the crown on his own, most likely. Or, if he can only dupe items, then either part of the market would be flooded with an item and the price would drop, or he would be set for life on items that would otherwise need to be bought.
What the? Was I missing this before, or is this the first time you basically say that we won't know it will turn out that way until it's put up to the test? Sorry for the attitude there, but I had thought that up till now, you were speaking as in you knew that was going happen, rather than speaking as if "it might happen, but then again, it might not."
Please remember that for every flamer, there is 1-10 rabid fans ready to defend their game, and a few more people ready to put up an arguement. People are more critical of the flamer because of how he points his opinion forward. In most cases, it's in a way that could be seen as ruining a person's good time or making fun of them for their hobby. Due to this, and not always getting to know the person behind the 'flaming' or 'trolling' or such, its often too easy to only be critical of the flamer than of the flamer and the fan equally....do you agree, or do you have something you'd like to add there?