It actually (and to be clear i am being very honest here and being polite about it) makes me nervous. I personally have found that the games I end up liking are the ones where developers rather than business folks are in charge. It is in fact the only thing about the project that makes me nervous. people who have a nack for business in my view rarely also have an understanding of good game design
Pretty much spot on.
Players want fun games at fair prices with fun mechanics, great usability and good support. Developers aim for techlogical achievements based on good/bad game design. Business people want to manage a company so that they can make money. Game designers are the key to the balance between the above three.
When I look at a game the first thing I look at is game design. The second one is business model and company management. Devs come third. Sorry devs but I need an ejoyable product from a publisher that is able to stand the test of time so that they don't go bankrupt or get too greedy with their product if they can deliver at all.
This makes the assumption that the business person is designing the game. That definitely would be a bad thing, but it's not likely. The best business people surround them with the best people to do the job at hand, not do it themselves. If they are the smartest person in the world, the company will have problems.
However, hopefully, with a great business person at the helm, you get a team with great designers, developers, artists, etc.
That's all theory, though, I can't really think of a game designed by a business person, so I can't speak to that. Examples? I do remember some horrible attempts at running a company by a designer/developer. There's actually a few cases of that I can recall, (Chris Roberts, Brad McQuaid, Richard Garriott). However, in each of these cases, these people ended up stepping down and allowing a business person to run the company, for the better of the company. I'm sure there are examples of the opposite side, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.
Eve online was Designed by Simon and Schuster interactive, and then bought by CCP. Simon and Schuster are a division of CBS. So what you are saying is true, business leaders will surround themselves with the right people and get the job done, or in this case develop a good idea and then pass it off (sell it) to a competent organization that can take it where it needs to be. Arguably CCP did just that.
Artists types tend to surround themselves with like minded individuals and dreams. I understand that some people seem to like vaporware and or playing games that are dead, clunky and unfinished to each their own. I do not enjoy these games and numbers would seem to indicate I am not alone in that.
I also tend to think certain people on these forums post BS just to read what they type and to be generally disagreeable.
There are numerous examples of game developers/designers making complete asses of themselves trying to run studios. Very few examples of the art side pulling it off with any type of efficiency.
lets step back a second and think on this
Business folk = good with ideas Artist folk = not good with ideas
is that what your saying? I think you have that exactly backwards my friend
anyway, my experience has been I tend to like the games where the developers get to call the shots, AAAs tend to be where the business calls the shots, very successful games but in my mind pure garbage.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
It actually (and to be clear i am being very honest here and being polite about it) makes me nervous. I personally have found that the games I end up liking are the ones where developers rather than business folks are in charge. It is in fact the only thing about the project that makes me nervous. people who have a nack for business in my view rarely also have an understanding of good game design
Pretty much spot on.
Players want fun games at fair prices with fun mechanics, great usability and good support. Developers aim for techlogical achievements based on good/bad game design. Business people want to manage a company so that they can make money. Game designers are the key to the balance between the above three.
When I look at a game the first thing I look at is game design. The second one is business model and company management. Devs come third. Sorry devs but I need an ejoyable product from a publisher that is able to stand the test of time so that they don't go bankrupt or get too greedy with their product if they can deliver at all.
This makes the assumption that the business person is designing the game. That definitely would be a bad thing, but it's not likely. The best business people surround them with the best people to do the job at hand, not do it themselves. If they are the smartest person in the world, the company will have problems.
However, hopefully, with a great business person at the helm, you get a team with great designers, developers, artists, etc.
That's all theory, though, I can't really think of a game designed by a business person, so I can't speak to that. Examples? I do remember some horrible attempts at running a company by a designer/developer. There's actually a few cases of that I can recall, (Chris Roberts, Brad McQuaid, Richard Garriott). However, in each of these cases, these people ended up stepping down and allowing a business person to run the company, for the better of the company. I'm sure there are examples of the opposite side, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.
Eve online was Designed by Simon and Schuster interactive, and then bought by CCP. Simon and Schuster are a division of CBS. So what you are saying is true, business leaders will surround themselves with the right people and get the job done, or in this case develop a good idea and then pass it off (sell it) to a competent organization that can take it where it needs to be. Arguably CCP did just that.
Artists types tend to surround themselves with like minded individuals and dreams. I understand that some people seem to like vaporware and or playing games that are dead, clunky and unfinished to each their own. I do not enjoy these games and numbers would seem to indicate I am not alone in that.
I also tend to think certain people on these forums post BS just to read what they type and to be generally disagreeable.
There are numerous examples of game developers/designers making complete asses of themselves trying to run studios. Very few examples of the art side pulling it off with any type of efficiency.
Yup! Totally agree. Do a personality profile (Myers Briggs, DiSC) on an artist and you'll quickly see exactly why they aren't well suited to running a company. They're creative dreamers and while you need that in your organization, you must have structured management in corral that creative energy into something more than a big party of people patting each other on the back and never really accomplishing anything.
It actually (and to be clear i am being very honest here and being polite about it) makes me nervous. I personally have found that the games I end up liking are the ones where developers rather than business folks are in charge. It is in fact the only thing about the project that makes me nervous. people who have a nack for business in my view rarely also have an understanding of good game design
Pretty much spot on.
Players want fun games at fair prices with fun mechanics, great usability and good support. Developers aim for techlogical achievements based on good/bad game design. Business people want to manage a company so that they can make money. Game designers are the key to the balance between the above three.
When I look at a game the first thing I look at is game design. The second one is business model and company management. Devs come third. Sorry devs but I need an ejoyable product from a publisher that is able to stand the test of time so that they don't go bankrupt or get too greedy with their product if they can deliver at all.
This makes the assumption that the business person is designing the game. That definitely would be a bad thing, but it's not likely. The best business people surround them with the best people to do the job at hand, not do it themselves. If they are the smartest person in the world, the company will have problems.
However, hopefully, with a great business person at the helm, you get a team with great designers, developers, artists, etc.
That's all theory, though, I can't really think of a game designed by a business person, so I can't speak to that. Examples? I do remember some horrible attempts at running a company by a designer/developer. There's actually a few cases of that I can recall, (Chris Roberts, Brad McQuaid, Richard Garriott). However, in each of these cases, these people ended up stepping down and allowing a business person to run the company, for the better of the company. I'm sure there are examples of the opposite side, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.
Eve online was Designed by Simon and Schuster interactive, and then bought by CCP. Simon and Schuster are a division of CBS. So what you are saying is true, business leaders will surround themselves with the right people and get the job done, or in this case develop a good idea and then pass it off (sell it) to a competent organization that can take it where it needs to be. Arguably CCP did just that.
Artists types tend to surround themselves with like minded individuals and dreams. I understand that some people seem to like vaporware and or playing games that are dead, clunky and unfinished to each their own. I do not enjoy these games and numbers would seem to indicate I am not alone in that.
I also tend to think certain people on these forums post BS just to read what they type and to be generally disagreeable.
There are numerous examples of game developers/designers making complete asses of themselves trying to run studios. Very few examples of the art side pulling it off with any type of efficiency.
lets step back a second and think on this
Business folk = good with ideas Artist folk = not good with ideas
is that what your saying? I think you have that exactly backwards my friend
Artists are good at making ideas.
Business people are good at executing those ideas.
Best games are those that manage a balance between art and execution.
It actually (and to be clear i am being very honest here and being polite about it) makes me nervous. I personally have found that the games I end up liking are the ones where developers rather than business folks are in charge. It is in fact the only thing about the project that makes me nervous. people who have a nack for business in my view rarely also have an understanding of good game design
Pretty much spot on.
Players want fun games at fair prices with fun mechanics, great usability and good support. Developers aim for techlogical achievements based on good/bad game design. Business people want to manage a company so that they can make money. Game designers are the key to the balance between the above three.
When I look at a game the first thing I look at is game design. The second one is business model and company management. Devs come third. Sorry devs but I need an ejoyable product from a publisher that is able to stand the test of time so that they don't go bankrupt or get too greedy with their product if they can deliver at all.
This makes the assumption that the business person is designing the game. That definitely would be a bad thing, but it's not likely. The best business people surround them with the best people to do the job at hand, not do it themselves. If they are the smartest person in the world, the company will have problems.
However, hopefully, with a great business person at the helm, you get a team with great designers, developers, artists, etc.
That's all theory, though, I can't really think of a game designed by a business person, so I can't speak to that. Examples? I do remember some horrible attempts at running a company by a designer/developer. There's actually a few cases of that I can recall, (Chris Roberts, Brad McQuaid, Richard Garriott). However, in each of these cases, these people ended up stepping down and allowing a business person to run the company, for the better of the company. I'm sure there are examples of the opposite side, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.
Eve online was Designed by Simon and Schuster interactive, and then bought by CCP. Simon and Schuster are a division of CBS. So what you are saying is true, business leaders will surround themselves with the right people and get the job done, or in this case develop a good idea and then pass it off (sell it) to a competent organization that can take it where it needs to be. Arguably CCP did just that.
Artists types tend to surround themselves with like minded individuals and dreams. I understand that some people seem to like vaporware and or playing games that are dead, clunky and unfinished to each their own. I do not enjoy these games and numbers would seem to indicate I am not alone in that.
I also tend to think certain people on these forums post BS just to read what they type and to be generally disagreeable.
There are numerous examples of game developers/designers making complete asses of themselves trying to run studios. Very few examples of the art side pulling it off with any type of efficiency.
Yup! Totally agree. Do a personality profile (Myers Briggs, DiSC) on an artist and you'll quickly see exactly why they aren't well suited to running a company. They're creative dreamers and while you need that in your organization, you must have structured management in corral that creative energy into something more than a big party of people patting each other on the back and never really accomplishing anything.
now on THAT I agree.
but idea makers business people are not.
That said, speaking for myself I dont play 'profit simulators' I play games. I play what I like, the business might be a complete failure and on that its sad but I REFUSE to play a game I like less simply because the business model is more successful. oh hell no!
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
It actually (and to be clear i am being very honest here and being polite about it) makes me nervous. I personally have found that the games I end up liking are the ones where developers rather than business folks are in charge. It is in fact the only thing about the project that makes me nervous. people who have a nack for business in my view rarely also have an understanding of good game design
Pretty much spot on.
Players want fun games at fair prices with fun mechanics, great usability and good support. Developers aim for techlogical achievements based on good/bad game design. Business people want to manage a company so that they can make money. Game designers are the key to the balance between the above three.
When I look at a game the first thing I look at is game design. The second one is business model and company management. Devs come third. Sorry devs but I need an ejoyable product from a publisher that is able to stand the test of time so that they don't go bankrupt or get too greedy with their product if they can deliver at all.
This makes the assumption that the business person is designing the game. That definitely would be a bad thing, but it's not likely. The best business people surround them with the best people to do the job at hand, not do it themselves. If they are the smartest person in the world, the company will have problems.
However, hopefully, with a great business person at the helm, you get a team with great designers, developers, artists, etc.
That's all theory, though, I can't really think of a game designed by a business person, so I can't speak to that. Examples? I do remember some horrible attempts at running a company by a designer/developer. There's actually a few cases of that I can recall, (Chris Roberts, Brad McQuaid, Richard Garriott). However, in each of these cases, these people ended up stepping down and allowing a business person to run the company, for the better of the company. I'm sure there are examples of the opposite side, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.
Eve online was Designed by Simon and Schuster interactive, and then bought by CCP. Simon and Schuster are a division of CBS. So what you are saying is true, business leaders will surround themselves with the right people and get the job done, or in this case develop a good idea and then pass it off (sell it) to a competent organization that can take it where it needs to be. Arguably CCP did just that.
Artists types tend to surround themselves with like minded individuals and dreams. I understand that some people seem to like vaporware and or playing games that are dead, clunky and unfinished to each their own. I do not enjoy these games and numbers would seem to indicate I am not alone in that.
I also tend to think certain people on these forums post BS just to read what they type and to be generally disagreeable.
There are numerous examples of game developers/designers making complete asses of themselves trying to run studios. Very few examples of the art side pulling it off with any type of efficiency.
lets step back a second and think on this
Business folk = good with ideas Artist folk = not good with ideas
is that what your saying? I think you have that exactly backwards my friend
anyway, my experience has been I tend to like the games where the developers get to call the shots, AAAs tend to be where the business calls the shots, very successful games but in my mind pure garbage.
Artist folks are the ones that usually come up with great ideas but they don't have the mindset to manage funds, staff, contracts, etc. These great guys are usually dreamers with no interest and no routine in making the right business decisions.
One fine example of crowd funded failures managed by experienced devs and artists was Yogventures. The devs got $570,000 more than double of their original goal of $250,000. Money just flew out of their hands on crap and the project got cancelled. They paid $35,000 to a single artist who terminated a contract with them after two weeks. $35k for literally nothing. Just because the contract was that bad. And this particular payment was just one example that came to public about this mismanaged project. Despite the fact that a huge crowd of Yogscast fans were interested in buying the game the devs failed miserably due to insufficient funds. Please note that their original goal determined by the devs was $250,000. Apparently it was nothing considering the size of the project. They doubled it and still failed. They had momentum, great ideas, experienced developers and artists, a huge crowd of Yogscast fans and the business still failed because of obvious reasons. Devs need to cooperate with business folks to fulfill their dreams.
It actually (and to be clear i am being very honest here and being polite about it) makes me nervous. I personally have found that the games I end up liking are the ones where developers rather than business folks are in charge. It is in fact the only thing about the project that makes me nervous. people who have a nack for business in my view rarely also have an understanding of good game design
Pretty much spot on.
Players want fun games at fair prices with fun mechanics, great usability and good support. Developers aim for techlogical achievements based on good/bad game design. Business people want to manage a company so that they can make money. Game designers are the key to the balance between the above three.
When I look at a game the first thing I look at is game design. The second one is business model and company management. Devs come third. Sorry devs but I need an ejoyable product from a publisher that is able to stand the test of time so that they don't go bankrupt or get too greedy with their product if they can deliver at all.
This makes the assumption that the business person is designing the game. That definitely would be a bad thing, but it's not likely. The best business people surround them with the best people to do the job at hand, not do it themselves. If they are the smartest person in the world, the company will have problems.
However, hopefully, with a great business person at the helm, you get a team with great designers, developers, artists, etc.
That's all theory, though, I can't really think of a game designed by a business person, so I can't speak to that. Examples? I do remember some horrible attempts at running a company by a designer/developer. There's actually a few cases of that I can recall, (Chris Roberts, Brad McQuaid, Richard Garriott). However, in each of these cases, these people ended up stepping down and allowing a business person to run the company, for the better of the company. I'm sure there are examples of the opposite side, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.
Eve online was Designed by Simon and Schuster interactive, and then bought by CCP. Simon and Schuster are a division of CBS. So what you are saying is true, business leaders will surround themselves with the right people and get the job done, or in this case develop a good idea and then pass it off (sell it) to a competent organization that can take it where it needs to be. Arguably CCP did just that.
Artists types tend to surround themselves with like minded individuals and dreams. I understand that some people seem to like vaporware and or playing games that are dead, clunky and unfinished to each their own. I do not enjoy these games and numbers would seem to indicate I am not alone in that.
I also tend to think certain people on these forums post BS just to read what they type and to be generally disagreeable.
There are numerous examples of game developers/designers making complete asses of themselves trying to run studios. Very few examples of the art side pulling it off with any type of efficiency.
lets step back a second and think on this
Business folk = good with ideas Artist folk = not good with ideas
is that what your saying? I think you have that exactly backwards my friend
anyway, my experience has been I tend to like the games where the developers get to call the shots, AAAs tend to be where the business calls the shots, very successful games but in my mind pure garbage.
Artist folks are the ones that usually come up with great ideas but they don't have the mindset to manage funds, staff, contracts, etc. These great guys are usually dreamers with no interest and no routine in making the right business decisions.
One fine example of crowd funded failures managed by experienced devs and artists was Yogventures. The devs got $570,000 more than double of their original goal of $250,000. Money just flew out of their hands on crap and the project got cancelled. They paid $35,000 to a single artist who terminated a contract with them after two weeks. $35k for literally nothing. Just because the contract was that bad. And this particular payment was just one example that came to public about this mismanaged project. Despite the fact that a huge crowd of Yogscast fans were interested in buying the game the devs failed miserably due to insufficient funds. Please note that their original goal determined by the devs was $250,000. Apparently it was nothing considering the size of the project. They doubled it and still failed. They had momentum, great ideas, experienced developers and artists, a huge crowd of Yogscast fans and the business still failed because of obvious reasons. Devs need to cooperate with business folks to fulfill their dreams.
yes
and maybe I read it wrong but it appeared to me he was saying Eve was originally created as a great idea by business types, and implemented to success by artists types.
But I might have gotten that wrong I am tired today.
Never the less, I agree with your point. However having said that despite AAA games (for an example) being extremely successful I personally do not like them and AAA games are typically managed by managers rather than artist types so for me its not a sign of optimism.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
It actually (and to be clear i am being very honest here and being polite about it) makes me nervous. I personally have found that the games I end up liking are the ones where developers rather than business folks are in charge. It is in fact the only thing about the project that makes me nervous. people who have a nack for business in my view rarely also have an understanding of good game design
Pretty much spot on.
Players want fun games at fair prices with fun mechanics, great usability and good support. Developers aim for techlogical achievements based on good/bad game design. Business people want to manage a company so that they can make money. Game designers are the key to the balance between the above three.
When I look at a game the first thing I look at is game design. The second one is business model and company management. Devs come third. Sorry devs but I need an ejoyable product from a publisher that is able to stand the test of time so that they don't go bankrupt or get too greedy with their product if they can deliver at all.
This makes the assumption that the business person is designing the game. That definitely would be a bad thing, but it's not likely. The best business people surround them with the best people to do the job at hand, not do it themselves. If they are the smartest person in the world, the company will have problems.
However, hopefully, with a great business person at the helm, you get a team with great designers, developers, artists, etc.
That's all theory, though, I can't really think of a game designed by a business person, so I can't speak to that. Examples? I do remember some horrible attempts at running a company by a designer/developer. There's actually a few cases of that I can recall, (Chris Roberts, Brad McQuaid, Richard Garriott). However, in each of these cases, these people ended up stepping down and allowing a business person to run the company, for the better of the company. I'm sure there are examples of the opposite side, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.
Eve online was Designed by Simon and Schuster interactive, and then bought by CCP. Simon and Schuster are a division of CBS. So what you are saying is true, business leaders will surround themselves with the right people and get the job done, or in this case develop a good idea and then pass it off (sell it) to a competent organization that can take it where it needs to be. Arguably CCP did just that.
Artists types tend to surround themselves with like minded individuals and dreams. I understand that some people seem to like vaporware and or playing games that are dead, clunky and unfinished to each their own. I do not enjoy these games and numbers would seem to indicate I am not alone in that.
I also tend to think certain people on these forums post BS just to read what they type and to be generally disagreeable.
There are numerous examples of game developers/designers making complete asses of themselves trying to run studios. Very few examples of the art side pulling it off with any type of efficiency.
lets step back a second and think on this
Business folk = good with ideas Artist folk = not good with ideas
is that what your saying? I think you have that exactly backwards my friend
anyway, my experience has been I tend to like the games where the developers get to call the shots, AAAs tend to be where the business calls the shots, very successful games but in my mind pure garbage.
Nope, you got it wrong and we aren't friends, to be clear.
Read what @Vrika said He/She has reading comprehension nailed. You seem to be lacking in that and research...and facts...and well just about everything thus far.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
lol kickstarter, meanwhile we got the Las Vegas dentist that invested in the porn industry and the millions he made out of it he invested it in making a SiFi MMO Space Wars : Interstellar Empires, without asking a penny from anyone and is entering early access by the end of 2016. Thanks, but I'm done with kickstarter and I don't follow any sort of hype coming out of kickstarter projects anymore.
lol kickstarter, meanwhile we got the Las Vegas dentist that invested in the porn industry and the millions he made out of it he invested it in making a SiFi MMO Space Wars : Interstellar Empires, without asking a penny from anyone and is entering early access by the end of 2016. Thanks, but I'm done with kickstarter and I don't follow any sort of hype coming out of kickstarter projects anymore.
I dont do kickstarters either but namely because I take a more selfish abd basic approach to my gaming
Game looks fun + can play game now = buy game and play game now.
that is how I roll
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I think it partly seems so ambitious because people are thinking of how games have been created and programmed in the past. Everything "spelled out" so to speak, and you could also call it "front loaded." I've thought for some time that a clever programmer, taking a different approach, could pack a lot of stuff into condensed coding, using flags and markers to store a small amount of data where it may be needed quickly to access much larger amounts of data only when it is really needed. It makes the most difference with procedural worlds, though. I wouldn't be surprised if they end up taking some big shortcuts, such as with the physics. It's an alternative universe, after all, with FTL travel and little personal transports zipping up into space without using any more fuel or energy of any sort than the programmers see fit. Maybe they'll have to make it so that walking and running seem a bit odd-looking, etc. I wouldn't mind that sort of thing, as long as it is consistent.
Comments
Business folk = good with ideas
Artist folk = not good with ideas
is that what your saying? I think you have that exactly backwards my friend
anyway, my experience has been I tend to like the games where the developers get to call the shots, AAAs tend to be where the business calls the shots, very successful games but in my mind pure garbage.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Yup! Totally agree. Do a personality profile (Myers Briggs, DiSC) on an artist and you'll quickly see exactly why they aren't well suited to running a company. They're creative dreamers and while you need that in your organization, you must have structured management in corral that creative energy into something more than a big party of people patting each other on the back and never really accomplishing anything.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Business people are good at executing those ideas.
Best games are those that manage a balance between art and execution.
but idea makers business people are not.
That said, speaking for myself I dont play 'profit simulators' I play games. I play what I like, the business might be a complete failure and on that its sad but I REFUSE to play a game I like less simply because the business model is more successful. oh hell no!
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
One fine example of crowd funded failures managed by experienced devs and artists was Yogventures. The devs got $570,000 more than double of their original goal of $250,000. Money just flew out of their hands on crap and the project got cancelled. They paid $35,000 to a single artist who terminated a contract with them after two weeks. $35k for literally nothing. Just because the contract was that bad. And this particular payment was just one example that came to public about this mismanaged project. Despite the fact that a huge crowd of Yogscast fans were interested in buying the game the devs failed miserably due to insufficient funds. Please note that their original goal determined by the devs was $250,000. Apparently it was nothing considering the size of the project. They doubled it and still failed. They had momentum, great ideas, experienced developers and artists, a huge crowd of Yogscast fans and the business still failed because of obvious reasons. Devs need to cooperate with business folks to fulfill their dreams.
and maybe I read it wrong but it appeared to me he was saying Eve was originally created as a great idea by business types, and implemented to success by artists types.
But I might have gotten that wrong I am tired today.
Never the less, I agree with your point. However having said that despite AAA games (for an example) being extremely successful I personally do not like them and AAA games are typically managed by managers rather than artist types so for me its not a sign of optimism.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Read what @Vrika said He/She has reading comprehension nailed. You seem to be lacking in that and research...and facts...and well just about everything thus far.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Game looks fun + can play game now = buy game and play game now.
that is how I roll
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다