.Hack is a poor example. If MMOs were 100% true virtual reality like .hack then I would happily experience the voice chat.
Otherwise, I have always avoided gaming communities that require voice chat because I feel that it ruins my enjoyment of the game. I do however, use voice chat with my personal friends. I enjoy cooperative and competitive game play but I have no interest in making friends with some random bloke on the internet. I feel burdened by the additional social obligations to the point that I will actively avoid playing a game that I enjoy.
Someone mentioned voice to text for purpose of chat logging but I think if it worked well enough it might be cool to have speech bubbles driven by the functionality.
I also think the voice chat worked well in APB until people learned to turn it off. It was always fun to listen to the opposition detail their strategy and be flabbergasted when you knew exactly what they were doing.
With the overwhelming number of 'No' responses, I wonder what the results would have been if the original post had not targeted voice communication, but rather suggested using full VR input for movement -- i.e., no wasd/arrows for movement, replaced by a different walking input. That's frequently a long-term goal for VR, but voice is more easily adapted to games.
A new walking metaphor might require new hardware, similar to VR technology -- some kind of direction indicator and leg motion input -- from a button and rudder setup (similar to several arcade games from the 80s) to a full-on VR walking treadmill. That pushes another cost to the consumer. Most players already have microphones for other purposes, so the cost to adapt might not be as big an impact.
If a new technology appears to be imminent, I'd rather try to suggest improvements to make the innovation a satisfying experience, rather than try to shout down the idea of improving.
Alternative movement input is "already here" so to speak (it's not officially launched yet). It's not the ultimate form of VR movement, but it's something similar to your walking threadmill.
And yeah, lots of "No" but very little in terms of suggestions for improvements. It's a lot easier to shut down an idea than to imagine and play with it in your mind to see how it would work. Some of the issues raised in this thread, like not being able to tell who's talking, have already been solved by other games/genre. For this particular one, an indicator next to the player talking or above the screen with the player name next to it are pretty common methods (Overwatch for example).
The whole purpose of this thread was to gauge people's reactions to what is undeniably coming in the somewhat near future of the VR experience. What surprised me the most however, is that people find text chat to be more immersive to voice chat, perhaps because that's what they've grown used to coupled with the low quality of voice chat content, but I can't say for certain. Which isn't to say that I expected people to agree with me, on the contrary I expected at the very least 50% to disagree, but I wasn't expecting this almost unanimous level of opposition however. It means that there is a lot of work left to be done to improve voice-related technologies and not just on the client side.
To me, there's nothing more unnatural than to have to stop everything completely in order to be able to type a sentence. I accept it because I know both the technology and the community have not reached that point yet, but the technology will come through eventually even if it is out of necessity rather than out of personal desire. I certainly can't see myself typing all the time while playing a VR Game, it's highly impractical.
If the goal is to send messages without having to type, then the solution is something like this:
I don't know if it's possible to integrate that with games right out of the box, but it would surely be possible if games built for it.
But as a way to see what others are saying, text is far superior to voice and it has been that way for centuries. Humans are built for far more focus on sight than hearing, and you're not going to change that.
You claim that seeing who is talking is solved in other games, but you're mistaken. It's solved in certain special cases, perhaps, but nothing remotely usable on an MMORPG scale. There are 100 people in a zone, and the player doesn't have a list of them. Four are talking at once, and another six keep their microphone on all the time and are transmitting background noise. Even if you have a list of all ten, who is saying the particular sentence that you're trying to pick out of the noise?
I think the fundamental problem here is that you're trying to disable something that works, and you want to disable it for no apparent reason. Even if you could come up with some other game communication system that was arguably superior to text, that's not an argument for abolishing text chat. It's an argument for making both available. There's just no advantage to disabling text chat, so it doesn't take very strong disadvantages to outweigh nothing.
I think the fundamental problem here is that you're trying to disable something that works, and you want to disable it for no apparent reason
But that's the thing, it doesn't "work" in VR because using a keyboard is far too inconvenient, hence the need for some form of alternative, voice chat being the most logical solution. The cost is low, it's easy to gain access to microphones and VR Hardware developers could even integrate them to the VR headset themselves like the Oculus has done with headphones.
The success of VR depends heavily, not just on the price of the hardware, but on how readily people are willing to adopt the technology. If people are completely against the idea of voice chat, well that means that it will be, at least in the short to mid-term, more difficult to encourage people to adopt the hardware and less interesting for game developers to create online games and especially MMOs (due to the lack of text chat).
Edit: People have this odd reaction like I'm about to remove Text Chat from World of Warcraft (although some might argue in favor of getting rid of the barrens, but I digress) or any other currently existing MMOs. But I'm talking more about someone creating an entirely new MMO, build from the ground up but that uses voice chat as it's primary means of communications. Of course it also means that it will have to tackle the various issues that comes with a voice-only system. But as far as Text Chat goes, Text Chat ends where VR begins, that's its limitations.
I think the fundamental problem here is that you're trying to disable something that works, and you want to disable it for no apparent reason
But that's the thing, it doesn't "work" in VR because using a keyboard is far too inconvenient, hence the need for some form of alternative, voice chat being the most logical solution. The cost is low, it's easy to gain access to microphones and VR Hardware developers could even integrate them to the VR headset themselves like the Oculus has done with headphones.
The success of VR depends heavily, not just on the price of the hardware, but on how readily people are willing to adopt the technology. If people are completely against the idea of voice chat, well that means that it will be, at least in the short to mid-term, more difficult to encourage people to adopt the hardware and less interesting for game developers to create online games and especially MMOs (due to the lack of text chat).
Edit: People have this odd reaction like I'm about to remove Text Chat from World of Warcraft (although some might argue in favor of getting rid of the barrens, but I digress) or any other currently existing MMOs. But I'm talking more about someone creating an entirely new MMO, build from the ground up but that uses voice chat as it's primary means of communications. Of course it also means that it will have to tackle the various issues that comes with a voice-only system. But as far as Text Chat goes, Text Chat ends where VR begins, that's its limitations.
And suddenly this thread is about VR. This feels like replying to SEANMCAD.
Making an MMORPG that is only playable in VR would be a serious mistake in the short term. Even if you want to make a VR game, an MMORPG is just not the place to start. They haven't worked out the complications on single-player games, and MMORPGs add a lot more of them--and a lot of development cost. It's also unclear whether VR will finally catch on this time, after all of the times that stereoscopic 3D has crashed and burned since the 1950s.
An MMORPG that is playable both by using VR and not using VR needs to be usable by those without VR--the overwhelming majority of the prospective player base. And for them to communicate, you need text chat. It's reasonable to ask what else should be offered in addition to text chat, but that's a question of what else plus text chat, not what else instead of text chat.
No. Voice chat ruins the game for me. I understand using it for raids and pvp and the like but if that was the only method of communication I would not play that game.
Totally agree, I hate voice chat. I miss the old days. I cant sit with headphones on everytime I play talking etc. i need to be able to listen for the wife and kids etc. Just doesnt work and one of the big reasons I stray away from MMOs now days.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I recently decided to re-watch the .Hack// series and it brought the question to mind. Would any of you play an MMO that removed the text chat entirely (with some exceptions like sending private messages/emails), and instead require player to interact with voice chat? Using voice chat would force players to be in a relatively close vicinity in order to be able to talk to each other. As with everything else in life, there are pros and cons to this system, but is this something that could potentially interest you as an MMO player?
Aside from FFXI, every MMORPG I have played would benefit from voice chat only communication. Almost all mmorpgs are just too action orientated and text chat is just too slow to allow for effective "on the fly" coordination with group members. The only situation where text chat would be preferable to voice chat is the instance where a person needs to communicate a lot of step by step instructions, but even in those instances voice chat is great for answering questions.
I wouldn't mind a set of speeches toggled with some button press instead of forcing voice chat.
Something similar to dragon's dogma when you press the left trigger you shout for help, down to follow you, up to march forward and so on. Maybe having customisation options would make it even better.
As someone who uses voice chat for everything and rarely types in MMO's anymore, i'd rather have the option to choose than be forced one way or the other.
Don't care for voice chat and imo should not be needed.Yes i can see the need if a large group Raid or something but i can't stand Raid type content.I should also note that yes sometimes i want voice chat if i need to make a long comment that would take me forever to type.
If i look at the most obvious scenario's,i still understand it but don't like hearing constant screaming or yelling in my game by a bunch of kids,i prefer QUIET lol.I can just imagine some scenario where there are 40 players all trying to say something.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
OP has identified the problem but there is no easy solution. MMOs are now designed to be so easy that interaction with other players of any kind is not needed.
For example time sinks that involve inactivity have been removed, this was one of the times people started chatting and once friends formed they remained even if you were not actually doing something in the game together.
There is one full prof solution. Find a way to make social interaction between players profitable for the gaming company then they will build a MMO around that. Not being serious, but that's the only thing that drives them now, profit.
Makes life easier for organizing people especially for content where multiple tanks are required and you have to organize healers into their own groups to take care of etc. RP servers can be a bit strange sometimes sure the community is friendlier and more mature but if like you are a good dark elf or even a paladan with a sword then you get ignored by other RPers as all dark elves are evil and paladins can only use blunt weapons. But outside of organizing raids or with your friends then it shouldn't be an option because you get people being annoying on purpose by saying annoying things or playing creepy music while sneaking up on you and your wondering wtf is going on.
I am usually playing mmorpgs to relax. More often than not I put the in-game music on mute and pop on Pandora or something similar. It lets me unwind. Ventrilo, and similar programs, do the exact opposite for me.
I'm okay with using Vent for raids and higher tier dungeons but outside of that, no thanks. I have no interest in what most of my fellow gamers find funny and everyone talking over each other just gives me a headache. Also, if you're in a big enough guild Vent can easily turn into WoW's trade chat, or Barrens chat for the vanilla players. I'll pass.
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Otherwise, I have always avoided gaming communities that require voice chat because I feel that it ruins my enjoyment of the game. I do however, use voice chat with my personal friends. I enjoy cooperative and competitive game play but I have no interest in making friends with some random bloke on the internet. I feel burdened by the additional social obligations to the point that I will actively avoid playing a game that I enjoy.
Someone mentioned voice to text for purpose of chat logging but I think if it worked well enough it might be cool to have speech bubbles driven by the functionality.
I also think the voice chat worked well in APB until people learned to turn it off. It was always fun to listen to the opposition detail their strategy and be flabbergasted when you knew exactly what they were doing.
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I don't know if it's possible to integrate that with games right out of the box, but it would surely be possible if games built for it.
But as a way to see what others are saying, text is far superior to voice and it has been that way for centuries. Humans are built for far more focus on sight than hearing, and you're not going to change that.
You claim that seeing who is talking is solved in other games, but you're mistaken. It's solved in certain special cases, perhaps, but nothing remotely usable on an MMORPG scale. There are 100 people in a zone, and the player doesn't have a list of them. Four are talking at once, and another six keep their microphone on all the time and are transmitting background noise. Even if you have a list of all ten, who is saying the particular sentence that you're trying to pick out of the noise?
The success of VR depends heavily, not just on the price of the hardware, but on how readily people are willing to adopt the technology. If people are completely against the idea of voice chat, well that means that it will be, at least in the short to mid-term, more difficult to encourage people to adopt the hardware and less interesting for game developers to create online games and especially MMOs (due to the lack of text chat).
Edit:
People have this odd reaction like I'm about to remove Text Chat from World of Warcraft (although some might argue in favor of getting rid of the barrens, but I digress) or any other currently existing MMOs. But I'm talking more about someone creating an entirely new MMO, build from the ground up but that uses voice chat as it's primary means of communications. Of course it also means that it will have to tackle the various issues that comes with a voice-only system. But as far as Text Chat goes, Text Chat ends where VR begins, that's its limitations.
Making an MMORPG that is only playable in VR would be a serious mistake in the short term. Even if you want to make a VR game, an MMORPG is just not the place to start. They haven't worked out the complications on single-player games, and MMORPGs add a lot more of them--and a lot of development cost. It's also unclear whether VR will finally catch on this time, after all of the times that stereoscopic 3D has crashed and burned since the 1950s.
An MMORPG that is playable both by using VR and not using VR needs to be usable by those without VR--the overwhelming majority of the prospective player base. And for them to communicate, you need text chat. It's reasonable to ask what else should be offered in addition to text chat, but that's a question of what else plus text chat, not what else instead of text chat.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
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Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Aside from FFXI, every MMORPG I have played would benefit from voice chat only communication. Almost all mmorpgs are just too action orientated and text chat is just too slow to allow for effective "on the fly" coordination with group members. The only situation where text chat would be preferable to voice chat is the instance where a person needs to communicate a lot of step by step instructions, but even in those instances voice chat is great for answering questions.
Something similar to dragon's dogma when you press the left trigger you shout for help, down to follow you, up to march forward and so on. Maybe having customisation options would make it even better.
If i look at the most obvious scenario's,i still understand it but don't like hearing constant screaming or yelling in my game by a bunch of kids,i prefer QUIET lol.I can just imagine some scenario where there are 40 players all trying to say something.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
For example time sinks that involve inactivity have been removed, this was one of the times people started chatting and once friends formed they remained even if you were not actually doing something in the game together.
There is one full prof solution. Find a way to make social interaction between players profitable for the gaming company then they will build a MMO around that.
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I'm okay with using Vent for raids and higher tier dungeons but outside of that, no thanks. I have no interest in what most of my fellow gamers find funny and everyone talking over each other just gives me a headache. Also, if you're in a big enough guild Vent can easily turn into WoW's trade chat, or Barrens chat for the vanilla players. I'll pass.