people say that for ages now, and blizzard keeps telling you it won't happen. keep hoping. "l.o.l."
If those 10.1M subscribers are true, then no way. I still bet we wont see any F2P until it drops under 3M.
Blizzard noticed that MoP and WoD were losing players so they try something different. Works for Diablo... But I think a MMO can have too much rng and they are probably using too much of it here.
people say that for ages now, and blizzard keeps telling you it won't happen. keep hoping. "l.o.l."
<snip>. I still bet we wont see any F2P until it drops under 3M.
Blizzard noticed that MoP and WoD were losing players so they try something different. Works for Diablo... But I think a MMO can have too much rng and they are probably using too much of it here.
Why would they go f2p when they can introduce RNG boxes without dropping the sub?
Looking at WoD and now Legion, in some way Blizzard aren't really expanding the game in terms of a rpg experience, but only reset, remove and add new "systems". The game has seen more useless baseline changes than much needed expansion, as Blizzard does not expand on or build on anything, but constantly scraps and changes what a smarter developer would expand on. What was a progression for the players with BC/WTLK has become a coping and with constant changes, hassles and resets with the later addons.
Players don't really play to create and experience their own adventure in the overall game's world like they did years ago in the world of warcraft, but they log in to check through a laundry list of given "systems" and log off. What was once a comprehensive adventure has come down to a management of gates and sinks for an hour and then you are out and play some CS:GO.
Do x daylies/WQs, get x amount of daily reputation, set your missions, use your crafting CDs, get your token etc. Like the game only consists of various modules to manage. Many of them were once build in a way to support your progression, but
nowadays are designed to be inconvenient and to literally hinder you
from progressing -because other content than that is too sparse. These sidegames were once a secondary aspect of your character, while leveling was the main aspect. Now it's the other way around, you basicly log in to mainly reset your timers and check through your "modules", while leveling became borderline meaningless. And as worthless as this change from playing the game to managing my meta is for any RPG, with Legion Blizzard even makes it hard and inconvenient for the players.
While players used to be subbed for years, people now do this for 3-4 month until they get bored of the routines that have been exactly the same for many xpacks and see no use in a further investment of their time. I remember that i was subbed for years and never run out of things to do. No matter how long i played on any given day, there was always another alt waiting, always something to chose from a broad variety of things to do in the game. Nowadays you log in, manage your CDs and run in circles in Dalaran, unless you switch to another character and do the very same thing again 10 times for all of your alts.
Diablofication would be Disabling all forms of trading whatsoever. Ignoring the community for 3 years and every 12 months change 1 existing set bonus and call it new content.
Funny, Diablo 3 players have been griping that Blizzard was turning D3 into WoW for a very long time. It is apparent to me that Blizzard has lost it's way. They cater to the player who has 20 minutes to get on, and that is great, except they don't provide any meaningful reward. After more than 3,000 hours in D3 I uninstalled the game (several seasons ago) and stopped watching their forums. I also think that WoW lost it's novelty after vanilla.
Hmm, well this RNG seems vastly preferable to the kind of RNG we've seen recently from eastern MMORPGs- where you spend a week grinding the same mobs for currency and then spend that currency attempting to upgrade something, only to watch it blow up.
Not only is there zero variety in the "grind", but there are potentially horrendous outcomes.
ArcheAge 3.0 introduced gems that prevent items from "blowing up" when used during upgrade process - so at least some Eastern MMOs are making changes.
Now there is still a high chance of not upgrading at highest tiers - but at least you won't lose your main weapon you worked years for.
What?
Ok! We got it! You love ArcheAge!
Not losing your item in the process of upgrade it ..THAT's not "making changes" !
And never ever don't you talk about RNG when you play way worst RNG games then WoW !
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy? Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
RNG crafting is the worst, the way some of these companies use RNG is a joke. The funny thing is, it can actually be a good thing when there is a little creativity behind it or if the odds aren't so stacked against you as a player or if manipulating and taking advantage of your player-base isn't your top priority.
They don't use these tactics because it makes the game enjoyable, they do it because it's a great manipulation technique that almost always pays out.
I dont mind RNG item drops. But RNG crafting is where I draw the line.
Yeah the RNG crafting sucks. I've been stuck at 785 alchemy because I haven't procced a rank 3 upgrade for any of my rank 2 recipes, despite making a boatload of them. So all of my recipes are greyed out. Only reason I was able to go from 780 to 785 is because I did the Darkmoon Faire alchemy quest.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Honestly, I have really enjoyed this expansion. The structure is good, I still haven't run out of things to do on my main which right now is a Demon Hunter (which I love by the way). However, it does seem to encourage you to have a couple alt accounts in quite a few of the quests and the structure in general. If you have 1 main and 1-2 alts, then there should be no excuse, you have lots to do in the end game without getting burned out in month. If your expecting the gameplay to change drastically, from quest to quest or dungeon to dungeon then your probably in the wrong mind set.
The similarities to Diablo are certainly noticeable. With that said there is more story, more variety of quests and achievements in which to explore. The gameplay between the two is still distinctly different enough to justify playing both games separately, but the dailies system, gearing, and dungeon progression sure has its similarities. But unlike Diablo, I find I enjoy the playing and leveling in the game, rather than just pushing difficulty for better item drops, that's just not how I play WoW at the moment. The discovery and story progression is slower and more in depth which is why I have been playing it a lot more. Don't get me wrong, I love my D3, but I don't feel one games play overrides another, or will affect WoW's replay ability due to the similarities. If anything, it should increase it.
I'm pretty sure that many of the features listed above originally came from games like Guild Wars 2. I
mean I saw the Fractals (GRift or Mythic Plus) dungeon system with a
difficulty scale and with so called Mystlock Instability (WoW M+
Affixes) mechanics first introduced back in 2012 in GW2. D3 did the same
later with GRifts starting in 2014. Yes D3 and WoW has key items and
the progression is not account wide but the rest is basically the same
idea as Fractals. That's just one example among many like Account
Wardrobe and other end game progression systems. GW2 had WvW masteries
back in 2013 and later in 2015 PvE masteries came with a different
twist. You basically progress in a selected mastery and you also collect
mastery points besides mastery xp. The higher level the selected
mastery is the more grind it requires to get it unlocked. The Artifact
Weapon progression seems to be a merged implementation of HoT Legendary
journey + the PvE Mastery system. WoW even tried to implement the
Action Camera controls in Legion as GW2 did the same earlier with the
HoT expansion but Blizzard's solution was reportedly causing motion
sickness and they removed the feature right after release. I guess they
rushed it and the complaints were due to unreasonably limited zoom and
FoV settings bound to action controls. Of course all these features
are great when they are done right but they have never been exclusive to Diablo 3. I'm not even
saying that ANet or other MMO devs invented the wheel but it was strange
to see the same features in Blizzard's games not long after GW2 took
the risk to try and enhance them live on the same market.
So agree, I feel the same!
Also Blizzard took from GW2 dynamic events/quests as they understood it. including even progress bar.
Waiting when Blizzard will implement other GW2 features, like more spells while running and evade-roll, I still miss for it in WoW, always trying to double-tap
Have read maybe 20% of article, could not bear any more. Author just can't face fact, that Legion is one of the best expansions in Wow. My slightly preferred is still Wotlk, maybe then I would put Legion and then immediately after MOP. But is hard to decide. I do not like all in Legion, but for sure this is expansion we have been waiting after disappointment with WOD. Actually I would say there were no bad wow expansions, just some were/are better.
Have read maybe 20% of article, could not bear any more. Author just can't face fact, that Legion is one of the best expansions in Wow. My slightly preferred is still Wotlk, maybe then I would put Legion and then immediately after MOP. But is hard to decide. I do not like all in Legion, but for sure this is expansion we have been waiting after disappointment with WOD. Actually I would say there were no bad wow expansions, just some were/are better.
WoD didn't set the bar high at all. So Legion being (barely) better is not exactly a huge achievement.
WotLK is generally said to be the best xpack, while WoD is the worst. If anything, Blizzard should try to beat WotLK. People cheer on them for surpassing WOD as the worst xpack with something that is slightly better than the worst. That's how you get more mediocrity in an already mediocre genre.
Diablofication would be Disabling all forms of trading whatsoever. Ignoring the community for 3 years and every 12 months change 1 existing set bonus and call it new content.
Diablo III has trading. I can trade any drop with my group members until the cooldown timer expires.
Ignore him! Diablo 3 has changed a lot since 2.0 and they add a lot of content! Sure, in the last .. 6 months we didn't see to much of a content, but they say that this year Blizzcon will be a blast for Diablo lovers, so that makes sense!
Plus D3 is B2P so yeah!
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy? Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
For me it made me realize I can't be tied down to raiding anymore. It really is a shame because I was having fun, but find that I simply don't have the time in my life right now to play a $15/mo game. I really need F2P so that I don't feel like I'm wasting money if I cannot log in for 2 weeks straight.
Plus as good as they made this xpac I still feel like I simply want something new. I'm tired of seeing the art style of WoW and just WoW in general. I was to see something completely new at this point.
No more stylized graphics plain and simple. I may take a break from MMOs for awhile until I see the VRMMO emerge or more realistic graphics being used to take advantage of the Pascal architecture.
I wouldnt be surprised to learn these systems were making it into WoW to more or less test them in a MMORPG environment. The next Diablo game is going to be an MMO I believe .. Not necessarily traditional 3D but an isometric MMO with an open world. Just a hunch / hope.
You've touched a great point with this thread Suzie.
I believe that the gambler mentality and the ever more present rng system that we see in mmos not just wow is a way the developers reduce or they offload their work by creating less major content with serious overhaul and delivering quick updates, patches to keep the comunity on, rng helps to keep you bussy while you re hunting that legendary or mount few have.
Rng is good as long as it is mitigated by character story class items and fixed elements like vendor gear where u have a goal ur aiming.
I dont know maybe I m not that good at understanding the infrastructure of mmo design school.
Diablo has the system better implemented maybe because of the tighter social aspect just a 3 or 4 ,5 man sometimes randoms trown in a world, whereas wow still has that persistent open world factor to it.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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Comments
people say that for ages now, and blizzard keeps telling you it won't happen.
keep hoping. "l.o.l."
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Blizzard noticed that MoP and WoD were losing players so they try something different. Works for Diablo... But I think a MMO can have too much rng and they are probably using too much of it here.
What was a progression for the players with BC/WTLK has become a coping and with constant changes, hassles and resets with the later addons.
Players don't really play to create and experience their own adventure in the overall game's world like they did years ago in the world of warcraft, but they log in to check through a laundry list of given "systems" and log off.
What was once a comprehensive adventure has come down to a management of gates and sinks for an hour and then you are out and play some CS:GO.
Do x daylies/WQs, get x amount of daily reputation, set your missions, use your crafting CDs, get your token etc. Like the game only consists of various modules to manage. Many of them were once build in a way to support your progression, but nowadays are designed to be inconvenient and to literally hinder you from progressing -because other content than that is too sparse. These sidegames were once a secondary aspect of your character, while leveling was the main aspect. Now it's the other way around, you basicly log in to mainly reset your timers and check through your "modules", while leveling became borderline meaningless.
And as worthless as this change from playing the game to managing my meta is for any RPG, with Legion Blizzard even makes it hard and inconvenient for the players.
While players used to be subbed for years, people now do this for 3-4 month until they get bored of the routines that have been exactly the same for many xpacks and see no use in a further investment of their time.
I remember that i was subbed for years and never run out of things to do. No matter how long i played on any given day, there was always another alt waiting, always something to chose from a broad variety of things to do in the game.
Nowadays you log in, manage your CDs and run in circles in Dalaran, unless you switch to another character and do the very same thing again 10 times for all of your alts.
Archeage EU - Nui
Ok! We got it! You love ArcheAge!
Not losing your item in the process of upgrade it ..THAT's not "making changes" !
And never ever don't you talk about RNG when you play way worst RNG games then WoW !
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
They don't use these tactics because it makes the game enjoyable, they do it because it's a great manipulation technique that almost always pays out.
So problem solved. No Big Deal.
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Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
The similarities to Diablo are certainly noticeable. With that said there is more story, more variety of quests and achievements in which to explore. The gameplay between the two is still distinctly different enough to justify playing both games separately, but the dailies system, gearing, and dungeon progression sure has its similarities. But unlike Diablo, I find I enjoy the playing and leveling in the game, rather than just pushing difficulty for better item drops, that's just not how I play WoW at the moment. The discovery and story progression is slower and more in depth which is why I have been playing it a lot more. Don't get me wrong, I love my D3, but I don't feel one games play overrides another, or will affect WoW's replay ability due to the similarities. If anything, it should increase it.
So agree, I feel the same!
Also Blizzard took from GW2 dynamic events/quests as they understood it. including even progress bar.
Waiting when Blizzard will implement other GW2 features, like more spells while running and evade-roll, I still miss for it in WoW, always trying to double-tap
WotLK is generally said to be the best xpack, while WoD is the worst. If anything, Blizzard should try to beat WotLK.
People cheer on them for surpassing WOD as the worst xpack with something that is slightly better than the worst.
That's how you get more mediocrity in an already mediocre genre.
Plus D3 is B2P so yeah!
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
Plus as good as they made this xpac I still feel like I simply want something new. I'm tired of seeing the art style of WoW and just WoW in general. I was to see something completely new at this point.
No more stylized graphics plain and simple. I may take a break from MMOs for awhile until I see the VRMMO emerge or more realistic graphics being used to take advantage of the Pascal architecture.
I believe that the gambler mentality and the ever more present rng system that we see in mmos not just wow is a way the developers reduce or they offload their work by creating less major content with serious overhaul and delivering quick updates, patches to keep the comunity on, rng helps to keep you bussy while you re hunting that legendary or mount few have.
Rng is good as long as it is mitigated by character story class items and fixed elements like vendor gear where u have a goal ur aiming.
I dont know maybe I m not that good at understanding the infrastructure of mmo design school.
Diablo has the system better implemented maybe because of the tighter social aspect just a 3 or 4 ,5 man sometimes randoms trown in a world, whereas wow still has that persistent open world factor to it.
Otherwise you are just hedging your bets.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon