Playstation VR side effects

psiic

So set up my Tacobell PS VR last night played with it for about an hour before I stated to feel wrecked.  Was actually feeling like I had been beat up pretty badly. Took it off and went to make dinner, my balance and depth perception were off so badly after only an hour that I could not do simple tasks in the kitchen like getting a spoon into a pot, I missed the pot like 20 times and that was a good 15 minutes after taking off the helmet. I found myself drifting to my left very badly for almost an hour after use, and as I said earlier felt like I have actually been beat up pretty much all night. After my experience I have to put out a warning do not drive for awhile after playing these I can see some serious issues with trying to judge depth perception accurately.  On the other side of them note OMFG playstation VR is WAYYYYY cooler than I was expecting, I have been really cynical about it but it really is an out of the body experience that I must recommend to everyone. Just remember play responsibly the live you are risking afterwards may be your own.  

SpottyGekko

If your system starts behaving erratically after an hour or two of use, the best option is usually to reboot !

Your anecdote is interesting, but is unlikely be shared by the average user. No company would knowingly market a product which leaves the average user incapable of getting a spoon into a cooking pot after an hour of play. The inevitable lawsuits would put them out of business.

I expect that some people will undoubtedly have extreme physical reactions to VR gaming. Just as some borderline epiliptic's may have seizures just playing an ordinary video game. VR is untested territory, and human beings come in a wide variety of shapes and sizes.

Some people suffer from crippling motion-sickness. They won't ever know it until they go out on a small boat out of sight of land.

Phaserlight

VR sickness. You've got to ease in to it. Go with a gentle experience and I mean gentle. 

My brother said that Land's End, which I considered decently tame at the beginning, made him feel nauseous.  I tried sending my parents and brother on a guided trip through Yosemite via "National Parks" and they seemed to really enjoy that. You basically want something where there isn't a lot of relative motion, at least on a human scale, or something where that motion is very gradual and gentle. Being in a canoe that is floating down a river is OK. Today I'm able to play Quake (!) in VR which has very fast motion, almost whipping around in my swivel chair, so it definitely is possible to become used to it. I couldn't have done that just starting out, though. 

Bottom line, if you are walking left when trying to go straight, missing the pot when trying to pour in sauce, you really ought to listen to that. Your body is telling you something. 

An hour is a pretty lengthy session for just starting out. In the manual to my headset it recommends taking breaks every 20 to 30 minutes, I think. Today I can go for an hour and a half before I start to feel uncomfortable due to the (minimal) weight of the headset, but in the beginning when my system was getting adjusted 15 minutes was plenty.

It's an exciting new world. Don't forget to take it easy. 

CrazKanuk

If it makes you feel any better, you get the same feeling with Oculus VR. I don't think there is a good solution to this at the moment. We've got a rig along with Eve Valkyrie at work and it's pretty horribad, even on high-powered systems. I'd love to say that increasing framerate or some high-tech solution is available, but we've got some pretty OP systems running it here and still have the problem. On a positive note, it won't be as bad in all games. I hear that ginger is a great natural solution for preventing nausea. 

psiic

Yea its Eve Valkyrie knocking me on my butt, played it again for an hour this morning and was literally crawling to the bathroom when I took the headset off my balance and depth perception was so trashed. Don't get me wrong its awesome when you are playing it, but I warning people to be aware when you come out of the games there is a serious adjustment period to deal with. 

SavageHorizon

I have haad no problem with it, took it off and flelt normal. If it really took you 20 times to get a teaspoon into a cup then you need to go see a doctor. 

Phaserlight

psiic said:

Yea its Eve Valkyrie knocking me on my butt, played it again for an hour this morning and was literally crawling to the bathroom when I took the headset off my balance and depth perception was so trashed. Don't get me wrong its awesome when you are playing it, but I warning people to be aware when you come out of the games there is a serious adjustment period to deal with. 

Again, if you are "crawling to the bathroom" something is off...

I may not be a doctor, but you need to take it easy.  If it's VR that's causing it, start with gentler experiences or limit your time (an hour is pretty lengthy for just starting out).

I've never had VR make me feel like I couldn't drive or that I lost ambulatory motor coordination, but I began with the likes of Annie Amber, Land's End, Eve Gunjack, and I limited my time to 15 minutes or so.

"Serious adjustment period" can mean different things to different people, but if your depth perception is "trashed" something is wrong.  That was not at all my experience, but then again I was very careful going in.

If you keep going headlong when your body is telling you 'stop', a doctor may tell you that you can never use VR again.

H0urg1ass

The first person to make a food run after playing for two hours, who swerves into oncoming traffic and kills a family of five, will send the terrors of VR devices flooding the 24 hour news channels.  There will be many many lawsuits, but then Facebook can afford them.

CrazKanuk

Phaserlight said:

psiic said:

Yea its Eve Valkyrie knocking me on my butt, played it again for an hour this morning and was literally crawling to the bathroom when I took the headset off my balance and depth perception was so trashed. Don't get me wrong its awesome when you are playing it, but I warning people to be aware when you come out of the games there is a serious adjustment period to deal with. 

Again, if you are "crawling to the bathroom" something is off...

I may not be a doctor, but you need to take it easy.  If it's VR that's causing it, start with gentler experiences or limit your time (an hour is pretty lengthy for just starting out).

I've never had VR make me feel like I couldn't drive or that I lost ambulatory motor coordination, but I began with the likes of Annie Amber, Land's End, Eve Gunjack, and I limited my time to 15 minutes or so.

"Serious adjustment period" can mean different things to different people, but if your depth perception is "trashed" something is wrong.  That was not at all my experience, but then again I was very careful going in.

If you keep going headlong when your body is telling you 'stop', a doctor may tell you that you can never use VR again.

It'll vary wildly based on the experience, too. Personally, I think it's Eve Valk. I have no proof, but I think it's got something to do with that. Maybe framerates, maybe something else. Also, things like excessive head movement or odd movements in the game can cause it. So Eve is ripe with opportunities like this. Things like moving backwards would definitely screw with your perception. 

I will attest to only lasting like 20 minutes with Eve Valkyrie on the Oculus. Not falling out of the chair, just feeling sick enough to stop. I guess I'm not as committed

flizzer

I have yet to try VR but I know I dont what to wear headgear to play a game.  If MMOs in the future require VR my gaming life is over. 

mgilbrtsn

I would imagine that you just need to ease out of it.  Just sit down for a few minutes and re-adjust to the fake reality of the real world.  This isn't unique to VR.  People who are on ships a long time and people who have new glasses also get this type of thing.  Anytime your messing with the eyes, it can go wonky.

Phry

H0urg1ass said:

The first person to make a food run after playing for two hours, who swerves into oncoming traffic and kills a family of five, will send the terrors of VR devices flooding the 24 hour news channels.  There will be many many lawsuits, but then Facebook can afford them.

When a Drunk driver causes an accident, they don't sue the brewery. It is the drivers responsibility to ensure that they are capable of driving a vehicle safely, if they are not, then any accidents caused are their own fault and they should be punished to the fullest extent of the law, in the same way that a drunk driver is.

Phry

flizzer said:

I have yet to try VR but I know I dont what to wear headgear to play a game.  If MMOs in the future require VR my gaming life is over. 

I wouldn't worry too much, there is no guarantee that VR will even be as popular as 3d tv yet. I think Jim Sterling called it when he called them 'priviledge goggles'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_h6GYI8ddA

and as usual, thank god for Jim Sterling

H0urg1ass

Phry said:

H0urg1ass said:

The first person to make a food run after playing for two hours, who swerves into oncoming traffic and kills a family of five, will send the terrors of VR devices flooding the 24 hour news channels.  There will be many many lawsuits, but then Facebook can afford them.

When a Drunk driver causes an accident, they don't sue the brewery. It is the drivers responsibility to ensure that they are capable of driving a vehicle safely, if they are not, then any accidents caused are their own fault and they should be punished to the fullest extent of the law, in the same way that a drunk driver is.

Until a product has a warning page included with it, then it can be sued to kingdom come.

For instance, the four major tobacco companies were sued in 1994 for not disclosing health risks, not including warning labels on packaging and marketing to children.  They were successfully sued for 206 Billion dollars.

Is there a warning label on these VR devices that states that a person could become disoriented for a period of time after using such devices, and that they should not be operating motor vehicles, heavy machinery or any equipment which could pose a danger to life and limb until that period of time expires?  I don't think that they have these kinds of warnings, but there's at least some evidence that VR is causing these effects in some segment of our population.... so expect lawsuits.

Phry

H0urg1ass said:

Phry said:

H0urg1ass said:

The first person to make a food run after playing for two hours, who swerves into oncoming traffic and kills a family of five, will send the terrors of VR devices flooding the 24 hour news channels.  There will be many many lawsuits, but then Facebook can afford them.

When a Drunk driver causes an accident, they don't sue the brewery. It is the drivers responsibility to ensure that they are capable of driving a vehicle safely, if they are not, then any accidents caused are their own fault and they should be punished to the fullest extent of the law, in the same way that a drunk driver is.

Until a product has a warning page included with it, then it can be sued to kingdom come.

For instance, the four major tobacco companies were sued in 1994 for not disclosing health risks, not including warning labels on packaging and marketing to children.  They were successfully sued for 206 Billion dollars.

Is there a warning label on these VR devices that states that a person could become disoriented for a period of time after using such devices, and that they should not be operating motor vehicles, heavy machinery or any equipment which could pose a danger to life and limb until that period of time expires?  I don't think that they have these kinds of warnings, but there's at least some evidence that VR is causing these effects in some segment of our population.... so expect lawsuits.

Would be just as pointless as trying to sue a brewery for causing drunk drivers.
It is the drivers responsibility to ensure they are capable of driving a vehicle safely, if they do not, then they are the one at fault, there are no excuses that will keep them out of doing prison time if they fail to do so.

Vesavius

Phry said:

flizzer said:

I have yet to try VR but I know I dont what to wear headgear to play a game.  If MMOs in the future require VR my gaming life is over. 

I wouldn't worry too much, there is no guarantee that VR will even be as popular as 3d tv yet. I think Jim Sterling called it when he called them 'priviledge goggles'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_h6GYI8ddA

and as usual, thank god for Jim Sterling

 
I think Sterling saying that was ridiculous. I usually pretty much agree with his PoV, but 'privilege goggles'? That's just embarrassing. For him, I mean. He seemed to just be on a grasping rant, mainly because he has a bad back and costs money. If it was up to Jim, he wouldn't have seen the bicycle get past it's early forms.

You could also as easily compare VR to flat screen TVs at their start as 3D, as well. The 3D TV comparison that we see folks latching onto all over is weak and has no meaning. 

I am no VR cultist, my opinion is still out and probably will be until the second generation, but Sterling spoke a whole load of pointless crap in this. He was reduced to moaning about what the goggles look like (because, you spend a lot of time looking at them in use, right?).

Right now, VR is an early adopter nerd tech demo. The lack of convincing software past porn is a real problem. But, this is still extremely early days for the technology. It is still too early to say if it is 'destined for greatness' or not yet.

Phaserlight

H0urg1ass said:

Phry said:

H0urg1ass said:

The first person to make a food run after playing for two hours, who swerves into oncoming traffic and kills a family of five, will send the terrors of VR devices flooding the 24 hour news channels.  There will be many many lawsuits, but then Facebook can afford them.

When a Drunk driver causes an accident, they don't sue the brewery. It is the drivers responsibility to ensure that they are capable of driving a vehicle safely, if they are not, then any accidents caused are their own fault and they should be punished to the fullest extent of the law, in the same way that a drunk driver is.

Until a product has a warning page included with it, then it can be sued to kingdom come.

For instance, the four major tobacco companies were sued in 1994 for not disclosing health risks, not including warning labels on packaging and marketing to children.  They were successfully sued for 206 Billion dollars.

Is there a warning label on these VR devices that states that a person could become disoriented for a period of time after using such devices, and that they should not be operating motor vehicles, heavy machinery or any equipment which could pose a danger to life and limb until that period of time expires?  I don't think that they have these kinds of warnings, but there's at least some evidence that VR is causing these effects in some segment of our population.... so expect lawsuits.

The manual has them; at least, for the one I use.  It says to take breaks every so often (20 to 30 minutes, iirc) and to stop if you feel disoriented.  The lengthy warnings actually struck me as a little strict, but after reading @psiic 's description maybe not so much.

Vesavius said:

Phry said:

flizzer said:

I have yet to try VR but I know I dont what to wear headgear to play a game.  If MMOs in the future require VR my gaming life is over. 

I wouldn't worry too much, there is no guarantee that VR will even be as popular as 3d tv yet. I think Jim Sterling called it when he called them 'priviledge goggles'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_h6GYI8ddA

and as usual, thank god for Jim Sterling

 
I think Sterling saying that was ridiculous. I usually pretty much agree with his PoV, but 'privilege goggles'? That's just embarrassing. For him, I mean. He seemed to just be on a grasping rant, mainly because he has a bad back and costs money. If it was up to Jim, he wouldn't have seen the bicycle get past it's early forms.

You could also as easily compare VR to flat screen TVs at their start as 3D, as well. The 3D TV comparison that we see folks latching onto all over is weak and has no meaning. 

I am no VR cultist, my opinion is still out and probably will be until the second generation, but Sterling spoke a whole load of pointless crap in this. He was reduced to moaning about what the goggles look like (because, you spend a lot of time looking at them in use, right?).

Right now, VR is an early adopter nerd tech demo. The lack of convincing software past porn is a real problem. But, this is still extremely early days for the technology. It is still too early to say if it is 'destined for greatness' or not yet.

Porn is the least compelling reason for me to dive into VR.  You just can't judge what it's like by looking at a YT vid or what have you and going 'hmm, what would that be like played on PC'?  It's not the same.  There are so many better uses for this tech.

What I'm saying is... you might look at a gameplay vid, let's say, Dreadhalls, and go 'well that doesn't look very convincing'.  Unless you are inside the headset, having the experience yourself, you just can't get what it's like from a flatscreen video or someone else's reaction.

If I'm thinking porn is a good idea while inside VR, it's because I'm bored and it's time to take off the headset.

/2c

cheyane

This sounds truly bad for you. Why would you subject your body to something that does this amount of disorientation and what long term damage have you done. Scary.

Vesavius

Phaserlight said:

Vesavius said:

Phry said:

and as usual, thank god for Jim Sterling

 
I think Sterling saying that was ridiculous. I usually pretty much agree with his PoV, but 'privilege goggles'? That's just embarrassing. For him, I mean. He seemed to just be on a grasping rant, mainly because he has a bad back and costs money. If it was up to Jim, he wouldn't have seen the bicycle get past it's early forms.

I am no VR cultist, my opinion is still out and probably will be until the second generation, but Sterling spoke a whole load of pointless crap in this. He was reduced to moaning about what the goggles look like (because, you spend a lot of time looking at them in use, right?).

Right now, VR is an early adopter nerd tech demo. The lack of convincing software past porn is a real problem. But, this is still extremely early days for the technology. It is still too early to say if it is 'destined for greatness' or not yet.

Porn is the least compelling reason for me to dive into VR.  You just can't judge what it's like by looking at a YT vid or what have you and going 'hmm, what would that be like played on PC'?  It's not the same.  There are so many better uses for this tech.

What I'm saying is... you might look at a gameplay vid, let's say, Dreadhalls, and go 'well that doesn't look very convincing'.  Unless you are inside the headset, having the experience yourself, you just can't get what it's like from a flatscreen video or someon else's reaction.

/2c

Oh, no disagreement from me there at all. All what I was saying is that the killer app hasn't arrived yet and that porn is a well known driver of early media technology.

I mean, in '77 the VCR cost $1,280. That's about $4,600 in inflation-adjusted dollars. Blank tapes were priced at $20 ($72 these days), and porn had a ton to do with the early adoption of that tech. It's a powerful selling tool.

I wonder if there was anyone calling the VCR 'privilege telly'? Or if people just weren't the same breed of twat back then.

Octagon7711

If you go to a doctor and explained what happened he's probably going to say, stop using VR, problem solved.  Doctors usually seek the simplest solutions to problems.  If it hurts when you raise your arm like that, don't raise your arm like that.  Unless you're rich then he can perform a lot of tests on you and tell you VR is disorienting you cognitive functions, so best to leave it alone or don't play it for over 15 mins. at a time, imo. 

CrazKanuk

Vesavius said:

Phaserlight said:

Vesavius said:

Phry said:

and as usual, thank god for Jim Sterling

 
I think Sterling saying that was ridiculous. I usually pretty much agree with his PoV, but 'privilege goggles'? That's just embarrassing. For him, I mean. He seemed to just be on a grasping rant, mainly because he has a bad back and costs money. If it was up to Jim, he wouldn't have seen the bicycle get past it's early forms.

I am no VR cultist, my opinion is still out and probably will be until the second generation, but Sterling spoke a whole load of pointless crap in this. He was reduced to moaning about what the goggles look like (because, you spend a lot of time looking at them in use, right?).

Right now, VR is an early adopter nerd tech demo. The lack of convincing software past porn is a real problem. But, this is still extremely early days for the technology. It is still too early to say if it is 'destined for greatness' or not yet.

Porn is the least compelling reason for me to dive into VR.  You just can't judge what it's like by looking at a YT vid or what have you and going 'hmm, what would that be like played on PC'?  It's not the same.  There are so many better uses for this tech.

What I'm saying is... you might look at a gameplay vid, let's say, Dreadhalls, and go 'well that doesn't look very convincing'.  Unless you are inside the headset, having the experience yourself, you just can't get what it's like from a flatscreen video or someon else's reaction.

/2c

Oh, no disagreement from me there at all. All what I was saying is that the killer app hasn't arrived yet and that porn is a well known driver of early media technology.

I mean, in '77 the VCR cost $1,280. That's about $4,600 in inflation-adjusted dollars. Blank tapes were priced at $20 ($72 these days), and porn had a ton to do with the early adoption of that tech. It's a powerful selling tool.

I wonder if there was anyone calling the VCR 'privilege telly'? Or if people just weren't the same breed of twat back then.

No, but I remember that a buddy of mine had one of those dual VCRs that could copy tape to tape. Mind.... Blown!!!!!

maskedweasel

Yeah, I've had limited time with PSVR, really mostly demos... but in my experience with several VR sets, results can vary, and a lot of my friends also have issues.  It's a cool experience initially, but I recall many times, even now, that after playing I'll have an extreme headache that makes me not want to do anything.

It doesn't always happen,  but it has happened every so often.  

One of the companies I work for has requested I develop content for virtual reality and headset devices.  As a content creator I've learned a lot about VR in general (though these are videos and not games).

With a lot of trial and error I've found that certain movements, or movement in general can make or break an entire experience.  Even something so simple as a natural camera shake or utilizing a rolling tripod can cause some users to experience vertigo.

cheyane

Yes porn is a big motivator but being a woman it is not true for me but I can see the interest.

Phaserlight

cheyane said:

Yes porn is a big motivator but being a woman it is not true for me but I can see the interest.

It's basically the opposite of real intimacy, and no different than its many other mediums in that regard. 

SpottyGekko

maskedweasel said:

...

With a lot of trial and error I've found that certain movements, or movement in general can make or break an entire experience.  Even something so simple as a natural camera shake or utilizing a rolling tripod can cause some users to experience vertigo.

One interesting possibility of the whole VR development process is that it's going to give us a far greater in-depth understanding of how human vision affects our perception of reality.

It's quite obvious that vision overrules most of the other senses. The brain gets confused when vision tells it that motion-sickness should occur, even when the balance organs in the middle-ear contradict that.

maskedweasel

SpottyGekko said:

maskedweasel said:

...

With a lot of trial and error I've found that certain movements, or movement in general can make or break an entire experience.  Even something so simple as a natural camera shake or utilizing a rolling tripod can cause some users to experience vertigo.

One interesting possibility of the whole VR development process is that it's going to give us a far greater in-depth understanding of how human vision affects our perception of reality.

It's quite obvious that vision overrules most of the other senses. The brain gets confused when vision tells it that motion-sickness should occur, even when the balance organs in the middle-ear contradict that.

The strangest thing for me and when I seem to get motion sickness the most is actually during the editing process.  In many instances where we've filmed a lot of movement, everything feels exaggerated, and this makes a difference between what you would consider "sea sickness" and VR video sickness.

It takes an additional amount of time working on stabilization of the videos, and even that isn't 100 percent foolproof.

The major difference is,  there is a constant with sea sickness,  the horizon.. the sky.. you can take your eyes off of what is moving.  When cameras are being moved or they shake, you'd imagine that because it's a full 360 degree environment it won't matter, but in truth, even in a 360 degree environment, when filming you have to set a focal point.  If the camera moves or jostles, or if someone tries to utilize a 360 degree camera like a traditional camera and point you to what they're trying to show you,  you're basically in a spinning virtual carousel, where your body isn't moving but your entire head is spinning. 

Not all movement videos are this way, if precautions are taken, but even what seems like the simplest thing, walking through a festival can induce nausea.   This is also why I've learned that action shots, however intense, should stay brief.  I've created 10 minute long videos where the actual walking or action based shots where the camera is moving are between 30 seconds and a minute long.