is this about gender or height? some women are taller than man...height has ntg to do with gender
I'm sorry, yes, yes it really [does]. A specific female may be taller than a specific man but the female height range is shorter than the male height range. If that female has both sons and daughters all with the same father, the average height of the sons will be taller than the average height of the daughters almost every time.
The world doesn't conform to modern standards of equality just because we want it to.
So if the objective is realism then the female height scale should be slightly lower than the male height slider.
You said it yourself — "a specific female may be taller than a specific man." So what's this about realism and keeping the female slider lower? You do know that there are females just as tall as you at 6'7", some even taller, right? Regardless of how few that may be, they're around.
Limiting the female height slider isn't realistic.
If we're aiming for realism, then randomly generated character heights and attributes would be the way to go about it. Using statistics, the randomly generated females would have less tall characters overall than the males, but they would still have access to very tall females, and many would be taller than many of the male characters.
In the same vein, genetics and lifestyle can affect stats. Should females always be weaker than males? It doesn't make sense when we have females that are stronger than males in real life. Though, again, it doesn't matter how few that may be, as they're there.
The fact is, when it comes to people, there are so many variables. You can't put in sliders and skill points and call it realistic.
Sure females taller than me exist. I've read articles on them. Meanwhile I've MET plenty of other men in my height range or taller than me. Meanwhile the tallest woman I've ever met was 4 inches shorter than me.
You can bury your head in the sand in the name of equality but your argument is ridiculous. In every single tall family ever the men are on average taller than the women.
I am of decent height but I have seen woman taller than me. Rare but it happens. Most games players are the "rare" types so I don't see the issue.
Have you seen men taller than you? Of those people you have seen that were taller than you were there more men than women?
Let me say it again all around the world average male height is about 7% taller than average female height. The world's tallest man is 18cm taller than the world's tallest woman.
And again none of this matters in a fantasy game, but if you are trying to anchor things in the real world deal with the facts, not silly anecdotes.
I am dealing with facts. I am saying that the players play as exceptional people. I run into men taller than me but it's not common. I am in the 98th percentile. In the NBA and WNBA half of the leagues are probably taller than me. Those are exceptional people that are generally different than normal people.
Yes it's all fantasy so it's moot anyway.
Nope, you resorted to anecdotes again.
PS you also have the misfortune to also be wrong. At the 98th percentile you would be around 6ft 3, the average height in the WNBA is 6ft.
What makes you think that computer game characters are usually 5-6 feet tall? Have you seen how high some of them can jump relative to their height? Physics makes that much, much easier if they're only 2 feet tall and everything else in the game world is shrunk proportionally. Plenty of small animals can jump several times their height, but the really huge ones typically can't jump at all.
is this about gender or height? some women are taller than man...height has ntg to do with gender
I'm sorry, yes, yes it really [does]. A specific female may be taller than a specific man but the female height range is shorter than the male height range. If that female has both sons and daughters all with the same father, the average height of the sons will be taller than the average height of the daughters almost every time.
The world doesn't conform to modern standards of equality just because we want it to.
So if the objective is realism then the female height scale should be slightly lower than the male height slider.
You said it yourself — "a specific female may be taller than a specific man." So what's this about realism and keeping the female slider lower? You do know that there are females just as tall as you at 6'7", some even taller, right? Regardless of how few that may be, they're around.
Limiting the female height slider isn't realistic.
If we're aiming for realism, then randomly generated character heights and attributes would be the way to go about it. Using statistics, the randomly generated females would have less tall characters overall than the males, but they would still have access to very tall females, and many would be taller than many of the male characters.
In the same vein, genetics and lifestyle can affect stats. Should females always be weaker than males? It doesn't make sense when we have females that are stronger than males in real life. Though, again, it doesn't matter how few that may be, as they're there.
The fact is, when it comes to people, there are so many variables. You can't put in sliders and skill points and call it realistic.
Sure females taller than me exist. I've read articles on them. Meanwhile I've MET plenty of other men in my height range or taller than me. Meanwhile the tallest woman I've ever met was 4 inches shorter than me.
You can bury your head in the sand in the name of equality but your argument is ridiculous. In every single tall family ever the men are on average taller than the women.
I am of decent height but I have seen woman taller than me. Rare but it happens. Most games players are the "rare" types so I don't see the issue.
Have you seen men taller than you? Of those people you have seen that were taller than you were there more men than women?
Let me say it again all around the world average male height is about 7% taller than average female height. The world's tallest man is 18cm taller than the world's tallest woman.
And again none of this matters in a fantasy game, but if you are trying to anchor things in the real world deal with the facts, not silly anecdotes.
I am dealing with facts. I am saying that the players play as exceptional people. I run into men taller than me but it's not common. I am in the 98th percentile. In the NBA and WNBA half of the leagues are probably taller than me. Those are exceptional people that are generally different than normal people.
Yes it's all fantasy so it's moot anyway.
Nope, you resorted to anecdotes again.
Actually I didn't. If WNBA players can be way taller and sttonger than average... why couldn't heroes?
is this about gender or height? some women are taller than man...height has ntg to do with gender
I'm sorry, yes, yes it really [does]. A specific female may be taller than a specific man but the female height range is shorter than the male height range. If that female has both sons and daughters all with the same father, the average height of the sons will be taller than the average height of the daughters almost every time.
The world doesn't conform to modern standards of equality just because we want it to.
So if the objective is realism then the female height scale should be slightly lower than the male height slider.
You said it yourself — "a specific female may be taller than a specific man." So what's this about realism and keeping the female slider lower? You do know that there are females just as tall as you at 6'7", some even taller, right? Regardless of how few that may be, they're around.
Limiting the female height slider isn't realistic.
If we're aiming for realism, then randomly generated character heights and attributes would be the way to go about it. Using statistics, the randomly generated females would have less tall characters overall than the males, but they would still have access to very tall females, and many would be taller than many of the male characters.
In the same vein, genetics and lifestyle can affect stats. Should females always be weaker than males? It doesn't make sense when we have females that are stronger than males in real life. Though, again, it doesn't matter how few that may be, as they're there.
The fact is, when it comes to people, there are so many variables. You can't put in sliders and skill points and call it realistic.
Sure females taller than me exist. I've read articles on them. Meanwhile I've MET plenty of other men in my height range or taller than me. Meanwhile the tallest woman I've ever met was 4 inches shorter than me.
You can bury your head in the sand in the name of equality but your argument is ridiculous. In every single tall family ever the men are on average taller than the women.
I am of decent height but I have seen woman taller than me. Rare but it happens. Most games players are the "rare" types so I don't see the issue.
Have you seen men taller than you? Of those people you have seen that were taller than you were there more men than women?
Let me say it again all around the world average male height is about 7% taller than average female height. The world's tallest man is 18cm taller than the world's tallest woman.
And again none of this matters in a fantasy game, but if you are trying to anchor things in the real world deal with the facts, not silly anecdotes.
I am dealing with facts. I am saying that the players play as exceptional people. I run into men taller than me but it's not common. I am in the 98th percentile. In the NBA and WNBA half of the leagues are probably taller than me. Those are exceptional people that are generally different than normal people.
Yes it's all fantasy so it's moot anyway.
Nope, you resorted to anecdotes again.
Actually I didn't. If WNBA players can be way taller and sttonger than average... why couldn't heroes?
I guess you missed my update. You seem not to understand what an anecdote is so go and look that up. Also the idea that WNBA players are much stronger than say a U.S. Marine of average height is pretty doubtful.
See @anemo post for why height can be a disadvantage in Judo.
As of 2003, the league average height was under 6 feet, and only one player in the entire league was taller than 6' 6". For comparison, the average NBA player is 6' 7":
So the average WNBA player would be relatively tall for a man, but not exceptionally so. But the average NBA player would be exceptionally tall for a WNBA player.
Any Game- Male and female characters have a height range you can select from. Probably based on an average racial height with females being shorter and men being taller and the ability to slide it up or down about 3 inches.
I'd then throw in a cash shop item that allows you to use points to purchase special rare things in character creation. You could use this to move your height much further or lower than the average height of your race/gender. The farther from the norm you differ, the more points it costs.
To be clear I would not consider this a pay to win option because I would balance being short and being tall with various benefits. This would simply be a way to allow people who really want to create a unique character to do it, without having everyone in the world be 7'2" or 3' tall
Manual Aim Game- Taller characters get more health, strength, and reach. Shorter characters get smaller hitboxes and the ability to ride smaller mounts if they are small enough.
Tab Target Game- Taller characters get more health and strength. Shorter characters get higher dodge and dexterity.
The things to which I'm replying have been said multiple times so I won't be referencing anyone specifically:
1. I'm designing a game strongly set in historical realism that likely won't have magic of any form (MAYBE prayers, but they would have a negligible effect compared to supernatural phenomena in most games), so I can't explain things away with "it's fantasy" or the like
2. The combat system I've designed for the game is essentially FPS combat for a pre-gunpowder setting (manual aiming and blocking, with weapon position controlled by moving the mouse), so height will always be an advantage unless I change where the camera is located so everyone has the same vantage point. I understand that there are benefits of being short as well as being tall, but in an environment in which the best ranged weapon is a bow and the majority of combat is high-intensity melee, the benefits of being tall outweigh them.
3. I'll fall in love with randomly selected attribute/appearance systems the second someone figures out a way to stop it from being abused by account traders
4. The attribute system I suggested would have the same maximum height for both genders, let's call it 10. Males would start at 1 height and females would start at 0 height but with some other equivalent +1 bonus, and all characters would have 15 points to spend amongst 10 attributes at character creation. This means that there can be females taller than men, and the maximum height is the same for both, but for females to be equal to or greater than males in height, they would have to sacrifice an additional point, which means that they would be weaker somewhere else.
5. Gender is not the only meaningful choice that will be made. My game is set in Late Antiquity (ancient Rome) Europe, North Africa and the Near East, and players will be able to select to which nation they belong, which also gives meaningful bonuses (picking Celts, for example, gives another height advantage). Choosing gender is not the major decision at character creation, just an additional possible choice.
6. I chose to focus on height rather than strength for gender differences because height is far more visible and would (in my opinion) break immersion far more if not addressed than strength.
I would say that the first thing to do would be determine the granularity of the heights., i.e. where does the bonus change, every 0.25", every 0.5 inch, every 1.0 inch, etc. This will determine how many height gradients there can be, then affix bonuses to the max and min heights and scale from there. Then you have the issue of deciding if your graphic representation is going to handle this scale.
But, I think you may be chasing something that isn't going to help a system all that much. Realistically, the tallest person in the world may have a bonus, but there's always a drawback. Tall goalkeepers are susceptible to low shots, as the old soccer adage goes. Height may have some advantages, but weight will have different advantages. A tall character might be have reach due to their height, but the heavier person can hit harder. Wilt Chamberlain had about 6" on Arnold Schwarzenegger in Conan the Destroyer, but I wouldn't have put money on Wilt in a real fight with Arnold. Substitute Manute Bol if you like.
Good luck with the game, but I don't think that is a good use of development time.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
"The combat system I've designed for the game is essentially FPS combat for a pre-gunpowder setting"
Say no more. Two game's I'd urge you to take a look at are Darkfall Online and Mortal Online. While these games are fantasy based they have FPS combat in a pre-gunpower setting.
In the original Darkfall (Which is being revived in the form of Rise of Agon/New Dawn) there were multiple races with different sizes and therefore different sized hitboxes. For instance Orcs and Maharim(Werewolves) were tall and wide while Alfar(Dark-elves) were very small and skinny. Miridain(Elves) were tall and skinny and Dwarves were short and wide.
The general consensus among the community was that tall was worse than short and wide was WAY worse than skinny. This was due to aiming. Shorter races got way worse racial bonuses while larger races like the Maharim got really good racial bonuses. For instance the Maharim got much longer weapon reach and their regular run speed (in which you regenerate stamina) was as fast as other races sprint speed (where you lose stamina).
On the whole the most popular races were still Alfar and human females. Human females were particularly revealing in that they were shorter than males but had the same weapon reach. Therefore most vets would tell you there was no reason to play a human male other than if you really don't like to play female characters.
So in almost no instances was being taller alone considered positive in an FPS.
Mortal Online actually had a height slider where you could invest points to become taller. Height directly affected health and melee damage. Because the combat was a bit slower in Mortal being taller was not as big of a deal but max shortness was still something people took on most non-melee characters.
In other words, lacking some kind of external benefit, character height is always a negative in an FPS environment. The vantage point is a really small benefit when compared with the smaller hitbox.
You want to have taller characters also be stronger characters using larger weapons, or nobody is going to play them.
You should give female characters a boost to shopping and their footwear should give them bigger bonuses than what male characters get.
Male characters should get a bigger bonus to relaxing.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Honestly, it's one of those things where I feel the immersion can take a hit so that the gameplay is better.
For immersion there are more important things. The world has to be coherent, gameplay bugs and UI should not distract from the game, there should be some PITA tasks in the game that give a feeling of accomplishment and there should be places/relationships in the game that you can develop to make the game feel like home.
If you make character sizes affect combat in a PvP game you'll be stuck in a constant "flavour of the month" where 90% of the players will play short, blonde male orcs with an earring, as long as that gives them a combat advantage. And if everyone is a short, blonde male orc with an earring (or any other combination that's strongest atm) then THAT is immersion breaking.
Stay away from the issue, avoid flame wars and concentrate on the way the game is meant to be played!
Originally posted by nethaniah
Seriously Farmville? Yeah I think it's great. In a World where half our population is dying of hunger the more fortunate half is spending their time harvesting food that doesn't exist.
I think "flavor of the month" is an issue of developers seeking the wrong kind of balance. What games need is situational balance. Certain classes are always better if played with superior skill in certain circumstances but inferior in other circumstances.
Unfortunately most MMOs seem to generally come down to:
A. Tank and spank B. PvP arenas
When there is limited gameplay that lacks variety your classes will have to be fairly uniform to reflect that. A sandbox with a good variety of content is the solution to this situation. While you do see flavor of the month's within very specific types of gameplay you see a lot more variety as a the whole. And the more diverse the content the better this gets.
As of 2003, the league average height was under 6 feet, and only one player in the entire league was taller than 6' 6". For comparison, the average NBA player is 6' 7":
So the average WNBA player would be relatively tall for a man, but not exceptionally so. But the average NBA player would be exceptionally tall for a WNBA player.
That's not my point. My point is that since most MMORPG players are special and exceptional people that they could be tall like exceptional people in real life. People are making more of it than what it is.
If you want height to be a factor in stats, just use a slider to add and subtract from multiple stats based on the height you use.
If you make a character taller, their strength grows, but they lose agility, or dexterity, so they're slower. If they are smaller they gain quickness, but lose some strength. Maybe a slight modifier to stamina. That way people have a choice to make. Bigger, more durable and stronger, or smaller, little weaker but quicker and harder to see.
People have been making that choice for a long time now, but just with different races. Choosing the big ogre or troll, or going smaller with a gnome, halfling etc.
It is the same thing, but this way is with 1 race instead of multiple.
Heh, just thought of when in EQ1, having the grow spell or whatever it was called on my gnome. Huge gnome lumbering around was hilarious. Also I made sure to always double shrink on any large races I played.
is this about gender or height? some women are taller than man...height has ntg to do with gender
I'm sorry, yes, yes it really [does]. A specific female may be taller than a specific man but the female height range is shorter than the male height range. If that female has both sons and daughters all with the same father, the average height of the sons will be taller than the average height of the daughters almost every time.
The world doesn't conform to modern standards of equality just because we want it to.
So if the objective is realism then the female height scale should be slightly lower than the male height slider.
You said it yourself — "a specific female may be taller than a specific man." So what's this about realism and keeping the female slider lower? You do know that there are females just as tall as you at 6'7", some even taller, right? Regardless of how few that may be, they're around.
Limiting the female height slider isn't realistic.
If we're aiming for realism, then randomly generated character heights and attributes would be the way to go about it. Using statistics, the randomly generated females would have less tall characters overall than the males, but they would still have access to very tall females, and many would be taller than many of the male characters.
In the same vein, genetics and lifestyle can affect stats. Should females always be weaker than males? It doesn't make sense when we have females that are stronger than males in real life. Though, again, it doesn't matter how few that may be, as they're there.
The fact is, when it comes to people, there are so many variables. You can't put in sliders and skill points and call it realistic.
Sure females taller than me exist. I've read articles on them. Meanwhile I've MET plenty of other men in my height range or taller than me. Meanwhile the tallest woman I've ever met was 4 inches shorter than me.
You can bury your head in the sand in the name of equality but your argument is ridiculous. In every single tall family ever the men are on average taller than the women.
yeah but you are talking about two different things with the above comment.
one is whether or not a woman can be "tall" or "taller" than you (let's just say "tall") and the other is how common. You say you have read about woman taller therefore it's a possibility but haven't met them as they are rare.
By making the height slider lower for woman you are addressing the "how common part". The same would have to be for men then. Since the average height of a man is 5' 10" in the US, the height slider, due to "how common height is" would be lower for men as well.
In other countries the average height can be shorter.
All around the world men's average height is about 7% higher than women's average height.
You are simply wrong.
Not that this matters in a fantasy game, height distribution can be whatever the developers want it to be.
while the average man is taller than the average woman, there are still "very tall women" and "very tall men". 6' men aren't average. So clearly he is not concerned with "average actual height" otherwise, while he would have the female slider shorter, he would, if he followed that train of thinking, have to make the male average height smaller than 6' by a few inches.
I somehow doubt he wants to do that. How can one allow for men larger than average height and not allow for women larger than average height?
And to add, why not allow the player to make the decision as to whether or not they want a character average height or "larger than average height"?
edit: so, if you don't allow for 6' women because "by average they are smaller" you can't have 6' men because "by average" they are smaller, even though they might be more common.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Absolutely not. The choices I make in regards to aesthetic factors in character creation should not impact my performance in any intended way, shape or form.
is this about gender or height? some women are taller than man...height has ntg to do with gender
I'm sorry, yes, yes it really [does]. A specific female may be taller than a specific man but the female height range is shorter than the male height range. If that female has both sons and daughters all with the same father, the average height of the sons will be taller than the average height of the daughters almost every time.
The world doesn't conform to modern standards of equality just because we want it to.
So if the objective is realism then the female height scale should be slightly lower than the male height slider.
You said it yourself — "a specific female may be taller than a specific man." So what's this about realism and keeping the female slider lower? You do know that there are females just as tall as you at 6'7", some even taller, right? Regardless of how few that may be, they're around.
Limiting the female height slider isn't realistic.
If we're aiming for realism, then randomly generated character heights and attributes would be the way to go about it. Using statistics, the randomly generated females would have less tall characters overall than the males, but they would still have access to very tall females, and many would be taller than many of the male characters.
In the same vein, genetics and lifestyle can affect stats. Should females always be weaker than males? It doesn't make sense when we have females that are stronger than males in real life. Though, again, it doesn't matter how few that may be, as they're there.
The fact is, when it comes to people, there are so many variables. You can't put in sliders and skill points and call it realistic.
Sure females taller than me exist. I've read articles on them. Meanwhile I've MET plenty of other men in my height range or taller than me. Meanwhile the tallest woman I've ever met was 4 inches shorter than me.
You can bury your head in the sand in the name of equality but your argument is ridiculous. In every single tall family ever the men are on average taller than the women.
yeah but you are talking about two different things with the above comment.
one is whether or not a woman can be "tall" or "taller" than you (let's just say "tall") and the other is how common. You say you have read about woman taller therefore it's a possibility but haven't met them as they are rare.
By making the height slider lower for woman you are addressing the "how common part". The same would have to be for men then. Since the average height of a man is 5' 10" in the US, the height slider, due to "how common height is" would be lower for men as well.
In other countries the average height can be shorter.
All around the world men's average height is about 7% higher than women's average height.
You are simply wrong.
Not that this matters in a fantasy game, height distribution can be whatever the developers want it to be.
while the average man is taller than the average woman, there are still "very tall women" and "very tall men". 6' men aren't average. So clearly he is not concerned with "average actual height" otherwise, while he would have the female slider shorter, he would, if he followed that train of thinking, have to make the male average height smaller than 6' by a few inches.
I somehow doubt he wants to do that. How can one allow for men larger than average height and not allow for women larger than average height?
And to add, why not allow the player to make the decision as to whether or not they want a character average height or "larger than average height"?
edit: so, if you don't allow for 6' women because "by average they are smaller" you can't have 6' men because "by average" they are smaller, even though they might be more common.
So you don't understand what an anecdote is and you don't understand statistical distributions are either.
I have shown you that all around the world men, on average are taller than women. I have shown you that the world's tallest man is 18cm (7 inches) taller than the tallest women. I even followed you down the rabbit hole and showed you that NBA players are taller than WNBA players, indeed if you had followed the link you would have seen that all tmr tallest three WNBA players are shorter than a whole raft of current NBA players.
Of course there is some overlap in the heights of men and women, but if you are basing your height sliders in a game on reality (and I don't see why you need to) then the mid point of the female slider should be 7.5% lower than the mid point of the male slider, and the tip point of the female slider should be 7.5% lower than the top point of the male slider.
Finally I think you should give this up, because it really is up to the developers imagination anyway.
I have shown you that all around the world men, on average are taller than women. I have shown you that the world's tallest man is 18cm (7 inches) taller than the tallest women. I even followed you down the rabbit hole and showed you that NBA players are taller than WNBA players, indeed if you had followed the link you would have seen that all tmr tallest three WNBA players are shorter than a whole raft of current NBA players.
Of course there is some overlap in the heights of men and women, but if you are basing your height sliders in a game on reality (and I don't see why you need to) then the mid point of the female slider should be 7.5% lower than the mid point of the male slider, and the tip point of the female slider should be 7.5% lower than the top point of the male slider.
Finally I think you should give this up, because it really is up to the developers imagination anyway.
Heck, the developers can do whatever he/she wants.
at no point did I ever say the average man wasn't larger than the average woman so I don't know what the heck you are going on about. I AM saying that if they allow for larger than average men (6') then they can easily allow for larger than average women. and since 6' is not "average" for men then I don't see why men can be 6' and women can't also be 6' other than it's more common for men to be 6'.
But yeah, it's his/her game and he/she can do what he/she wants.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Any Game- Male and female characters have a height range you can select from. Probably based on an average racial height with females being shorter and men being taller and the ability to slide it up or down about 3 inches.
I'd then throw in a cash shop item that allows you to use points to purchase special rare things in character creation. You could use this to move your height much further or lower than the average height of your race/gender. The farther from the norm you differ, the more points it costs.
To be clear I would not consider this a pay to win option because I would balance being short and being tall with various benefits. This would simply be a way to allow people who really want to create a unique character to do it, without having everyone in the world be 7'2" or 3' tall
Manual Aim Game- Taller characters get more health, strength, and reach. Shorter characters get smaller hitboxes and the ability to ride smaller mounts if they are small enough.
Tab Target Game- Taller characters get more health and strength. Shorter characters get higher dodge and dexterity.
I like that idea, except the part about the cash shop! I think that should be a normal option, but to make the biggest characters that should really be all you get. People expect they will stand out when they make the tallest characters, but when it's s free option you get tons of giants. It's like Syndrome said, when everyone is super, no one is.
2. The combat system I've designed for the game is essentially FPS combat for a pre-gunpowder setting (manual aiming and blocking, with weapon position controlled by moving the mouse), so height will always be an advantage unless I change where the camera is located so everyone has the same vantage point.
Question:
Why is having to aim down an advantage? One would think that in your system shorter players have the advantage, because aiming level is always easier than aiming up or down, and they can aim about level to hit opponent's torso. Longer players would have the disadvantage of having to constantly aim down.
I can't see how longer players would get an advantage out of that unless you're planning to place the camera to character's knees so that everyone must aim up all the time.
2. The combat system I've designed for the game is essentially FPS combat for a pre-gunpowder setting (manual aiming and blocking, with weapon position controlled by moving the mouse), so height will always be an advantage unless I change where the camera is located so everyone has the same vantage point.
Question:
Why is having to aim down an advantage? One would think that in your system shorter players have the advantage, because aiming level is always easier than aiming up or down, and they can aim about level to hit opponent's torso. Longer players would have the disadvantage of having to constantly aim down.
I can't see how longer players would get an advantage out of that unless you're planning to place the camera to character's knees so that everyone must aim up all the time.
It should run the other way, bigger person bigger target.
But reach would give some advantage to a taller person (longer arms). But then again, if you are using a spear the reach thing should even out. BTW spears are generally better than swords in a battle.
Any Game- Male and female characters have a height range you can select from. Probably based on an average racial height with females being shorter and men being taller and the ability to slide it up or down about 3 inches.
I'd then throw in a cash shop item that allows you to use points to purchase special rare things in character creation. You could use this to move your height much further or lower than the average height of your race/gender. The farther from the norm you differ, the more points it costs.
To be clear I would not consider this a pay to win option because I would balance being short and being tall with various benefits. This would simply be a way to allow people who really want to create a unique character to do it, without having everyone in the world be 7'2" or 3' tall
Manual Aim Game- Taller characters get more health, strength, and reach. Shorter characters get smaller hitboxes and the ability to ride smaller mounts if they are small enough.
Tab Target Game- Taller characters get more health and strength. Shorter characters get higher dodge and dexterity.
I like that idea, except the part about the cash shop! I think that should be a normal option, but to make the biggest characters that should really be all you get. People expect they will stand out when they make the tallest characters, but when it's s free option you get tons of giants. It's like Syndrome said, when everyone is super, no one is.
There are a couple reasons I would tie it to a cash shop. First, what are people dropping in order to make a taller character/shorter character when it is a "normal" option?
If they are dropping stats, then everyone who plays a tall character will be weak if you balance out tall vs. short stats. If you don't balance it out and make it worth a point investment then extremely tall characters are going to be extremely common for any kind of build that benefits from it. You might end up with every melee character in your world being max height while all mages are max shortness.
If they are dropping another interesting character customization options (Rare eye, hair color, interesting scarring patterns/tattoos etc.) then you'll see pretty much any character that isn't interested in red hair or green eyes be an exceptional height... and you never see tall characters with red hair or green eyes (Screw you Aiel!)
So why cash?
With cash you can allow for extremely unusual heights (Up to or exceeding 7ft. tall for a human) but you can make it cost exponentially more, the farther from usual it is. So while 7ft+ may be possible, it's not really worth it if you don't want to drop 1000$+ on your character, making such characters exceptionally rare. I'd also balance this option by making the cost adjust based on the percentage of actively played characters with a certain feature. So if nobody is buying height upgrades they might get a bit cheaper but if 25% of the population is starting to get over 6' then the price will slide upwards to make it more prohibitive.
I realize any time you charge for anything it's seen as a "money grab" but I think cosmetic options is the least intrusive aspect of a game to monetize, and in this instance it leads to direct benefits to the game. Keeping rare customization options rare without having to tie them to a loss of player strength.
If this does lead to an actually good revenue flow then that allows you to remove or reduce costs to the player from other areas of the game such as lower premium fees or invest more of that cash back into game development. You can also pocket it of course but then it does lend some credibility to the "money grab" argument.
I'm curious as to why it depends on height and not some other attribute. In reality, men are much stronger in the upper body. It's naturally the way the body is made. That isn't to say that women aren't capable of incredible strength, but in general men are much stronger. Women on the other hand are much stronger in their legs and pelvis to help with carrying babies to term (they need to be able to handle the weight and stress). To me that would suggest that men would be stronger but women would be faster thereby balancing each other out using different stats.
ROFLMAO go and look at the Olympic records and tell me which events women do better than men in. Male athletic performance is always better than female athletic performance. Even events like Olympic sabre fencing the genders are separated because women cannot compete on a level playing field with men.
Again this doesn't matter in a fantasy game, developers can create the world they like.
And I mentioned that it is possible with a great deal of work, did I not. Seriously, people like you are why this country is in so much trouble. Because you are incapable of critical thinking and grab onto ONE thing while ignoring everything else. What I actually said didn't sink in because you chose to ignore it since the other part you decided was more important. THINK.
Comments
PS you also have the misfortune to also be wrong. At the 98th percentile you would be around 6ft 3, the average height in the WNBA is 6ft.
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=male+height+chart&oq=mLe+height&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l15.12995j0j4&sourceid=silk&ie=UTF-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=GYUDWM7zH9KojwOwwqO4CQ#gws_rd=cr&imgrc=t-38uItwR0GGZM:
At 6’8″, she is an extremely tall woman. The average height of a WNBA player is around 6’0″ tall. In the WNBA, she would be tied for the third tallest player in WNBA history. But in the NBA, 6’8″ is close to the average height.
http://wagesofwins.com/2013/04/10/could-brittney-griner-make-it-in-the-nba/
See @anemo post for why height can be a disadvantage in Judo.
http://www.wnba.com/archive/wnba/statistics/survey_height_2003.html
As of 2003, the league average height was under 6 feet, and only one player in the entire league was taller than 6' 6". For comparison, the average NBA player is 6' 7":
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats.html
So the average WNBA player would be relatively tall for a man, but not exceptionally so. But the average NBA player would be exceptionally tall for a WNBA player.
Any Game- Male and female characters have a height range you can select from. Probably based on an average racial height with females being shorter and men being taller and the ability to slide it up or down about 3 inches.
I'd then throw in a cash shop item that allows you to use points to purchase special rare things in character creation. You could use this to move your height much further or lower than the average height of your race/gender. The farther from the norm you differ, the more points it costs.
To be clear I would not consider this a pay to win option because I would balance being short and being tall with various benefits. This would simply be a way to allow people who really want to create a unique character to do it, without having everyone in the world be 7'2" or 3' tall
Manual Aim Game- Taller characters get more health, strength, and reach. Shorter characters get smaller hitboxes and the ability to ride smaller mounts if they are small enough.
Tab Target Game- Taller characters get more health and strength. Shorter characters get higher dodge and dexterity.
1. I'm designing a game strongly set in historical realism that likely won't have magic of any form (MAYBE prayers, but they would have a negligible effect compared to supernatural phenomena in most games), so I can't explain things away with "it's fantasy" or the like
2. The combat system I've designed for the game is essentially FPS combat for a pre-gunpowder setting (manual aiming and blocking, with weapon position controlled by moving the mouse), so height will always be an advantage unless I change where the camera is located so everyone has the same vantage point. I understand that there are benefits of being short as well as being tall, but in an environment in which the best ranged weapon is a bow and the majority of combat is high-intensity melee, the benefits of being tall outweigh them.
3. I'll fall in love with randomly selected attribute/appearance systems the second someone figures out a way to stop it from being abused by account traders
4. The attribute system I suggested would have the same maximum height for both genders, let's call it 10. Males would start at 1 height and females would start at 0 height but with some other equivalent +1 bonus, and all characters would have 15 points to spend amongst 10 attributes at character creation. This means that there can be females taller than men, and the maximum height is the same for both, but for females to be equal to or greater than males in height, they would have to sacrifice an additional point, which means that they would be weaker somewhere else.
5. Gender is not the only meaningful choice that will be made. My game is set in Late Antiquity (ancient Rome) Europe, North Africa and the Near East, and players will be able to select to which nation they belong, which also gives meaningful bonuses (picking Celts, for example, gives another height advantage). Choosing gender is not the major decision at character creation, just an additional possible choice.
6. I chose to focus on height rather than strength for gender differences because height is far more visible and would (in my opinion) break immersion far more if not addressed than strength.
But, I think you may be chasing something that isn't going to help a system all that much. Realistically, the tallest person in the world may have a bonus, but there's always a drawback. Tall goalkeepers are susceptible to low shots, as the old soccer adage goes. Height may have some advantages, but weight will have different advantages. A tall character might be have reach due to their height, but the heavier person can hit harder. Wilt Chamberlain had about 6" on Arnold Schwarzenegger in Conan the Destroyer, but I wouldn't have put money on Wilt in a real fight with Arnold. Substitute Manute Bol if you like.
Good luck with the game, but I don't think that is a good use of development time.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
It is fantasy.
"The combat system I've designed for the game is essentially FPS combat for a pre-gunpowder setting"
Say no more. Two game's I'd urge you to take a look at are Darkfall Online and Mortal Online. While these games are fantasy based they have FPS combat in a pre-gunpower setting.
In the original Darkfall (Which is being revived in the form of Rise of Agon/New Dawn) there were multiple races with different sizes and therefore different sized hitboxes. For instance Orcs and Maharim(Werewolves) were tall and wide while Alfar(Dark-elves) were very small and skinny. Miridain(Elves) were tall and skinny and Dwarves were short and wide.
The general consensus among the community was that tall was worse than short and wide was WAY worse than skinny. This was due to aiming. Shorter races got way worse racial bonuses while larger races like the Maharim got really good racial bonuses. For instance the Maharim got much longer weapon reach and their regular run speed (in which you regenerate stamina) was as fast as other races sprint speed (where you lose stamina).
On the whole the most popular races were still Alfar and human females. Human females were particularly revealing in that they were shorter than males but had the same weapon reach. Therefore most vets would tell you there was no reason to play a human male other than if you really don't like to play female characters.
So in almost no instances was being taller alone considered positive in an FPS.
Mortal Online actually had a height slider where you could invest points to become taller. Height directly affected health and melee damage. Because the combat was a bit slower in Mortal being taller was not as big of a deal but max shortness was still something people took on most non-melee characters.
In other words, lacking some kind of external benefit, character height is always a negative in an FPS environment. The vantage point is a really small benefit when compared with the smaller hitbox.
You want to have taller characters also be stronger characters using larger weapons, or nobody is going to play them.
Male characters should get a bigger bonus to relaxing.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
For immersion there are more important things. The world has to be coherent, gameplay bugs and UI should not distract from the game, there should be some PITA tasks in the game that give a feeling of accomplishment and there should be places/relationships in the game that you can develop to make the game feel like home.
If you make character sizes affect combat in a PvP game you'll be stuck in a constant "flavour of the month" where 90% of the players will play short, blonde male orcs with an earring, as long as that gives them a combat advantage. And if everyone is a short, blonde male orc with an earring (or any other combination that's strongest atm) then THAT is immersion breaking.
Stay away from the issue, avoid flame wars and concentrate on the way the game is meant to be played!
Unfortunately most MMOs seem to generally come down to:
A. Tank and spank
B. PvP arenas
When there is limited gameplay that lacks variety your classes will have to be fairly uniform to reflect that. A sandbox with a good variety of content is the solution to this situation. While you do see flavor of the month's within very specific types of gameplay you see a lot more variety as a the whole. And the more diverse the content the better this gets.
Even most men are outside of the normal in RPGS.
If you make a character taller, their strength grows, but they lose agility, or dexterity, so they're slower.
If they are smaller they gain quickness, but lose some strength. Maybe a slight modifier to stamina. That way people have a choice to make. Bigger, more durable and stronger, or smaller, little weaker but quicker and harder to see.
People have been making that choice for a long time now, but just with different races. Choosing the big ogre or troll, or going smaller with a gnome, halfling etc.
It is the same thing, but this way is with 1 race instead of multiple.
Heh, just thought of when in EQ1, having the grow spell or whatever it was called on my gnome. Huge gnome lumbering around was hilarious. Also I made sure to always double shrink on any large races I played.
while the average man is taller than the average woman, there are still "very tall women" and "very tall men". 6' men aren't average. So clearly he is not concerned with "average actual height" otherwise, while he would have the female slider shorter, he would, if he followed that train of thinking, have to make the male average height smaller than 6' by a few inches.
I somehow doubt he wants to do that. How can one allow for men larger than average height and not allow for women larger than average height?
And to add, why not allow the player to make the decision as to whether or not they want a character average height or "larger than average height"?
edit: so, if you don't allow for 6' women because "by average they are smaller" you can't have 6' men because "by average" they are smaller, even though they might be more common.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I have shown you that all around the world men, on average are taller than women.
I have shown you that the world's tallest man is 18cm (7 inches) taller than the tallest women.
I even followed you down the rabbit hole and showed you that NBA players are taller than WNBA players, indeed if you had followed the link you would have seen that all tmr tallest three WNBA players are shorter than a whole raft of current NBA players.
Of course there is some overlap in the heights of men and women, but if you are basing your height sliders in a game on reality (and I don't see why you need to) then the mid point of the female slider should be 7.5% lower than the mid point of the male slider, and the tip point of the female slider should be 7.5% lower than the top point of the male slider.
Finally I think you should give this up, because it really is up to the developers imagination anyway.
at no point did I ever say the average man wasn't larger than the average woman so I don't know what the heck you are going on about. I AM saying that if they allow for larger than average men (6') then they can easily allow for larger than average women. and since 6' is not "average" for men then I don't see why men can be 6' and women can't also be 6' other than it's more common for men to be 6'.
But yeah, it's his/her game and he/she can do what he/she wants.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Why is having to aim down an advantage? One would think that in your system shorter players have the advantage, because aiming level is always easier than aiming up or down, and they can aim about level to hit opponent's torso. Longer players would have the disadvantage of having to constantly aim down.
I can't see how longer players would get an advantage out of that unless you're planning to place the camera to character's knees so that everyone must aim up all the time.
It should run the other way, bigger person bigger target.
But reach would give some advantage to a taller person (longer arms). But then again, if you are using a spear the reach thing should even out. BTW spears are generally better than swords in a battle.
If they are dropping stats, then everyone who plays a tall character will be weak if you balance out tall vs. short stats. If you don't balance it out and make it worth a point investment then extremely tall characters are going to be extremely common for any kind of build that benefits from it. You might end up with every melee character in your world being max height while all mages are max shortness.
If they are dropping another interesting character customization options (Rare eye, hair color, interesting scarring patterns/tattoos etc.) then you'll see pretty much any character that isn't interested in red hair or green eyes be an exceptional height... and you never see tall characters with red hair or green eyes (Screw you Aiel!)
So why cash?
With cash you can allow for extremely unusual heights (Up to or exceeding 7ft. tall for a human) but you can make it cost exponentially more, the farther from usual it is. So while 7ft+ may be possible, it's not really worth it if you don't want to drop 1000$+ on your character, making such characters exceptionally rare. I'd also balance this option by making the cost adjust based on the percentage of actively played characters with a certain feature. So if nobody is buying height upgrades they might get a bit cheaper but if 25% of the population is starting to get over 6' then the price will slide upwards to make it more prohibitive.
I realize any time you charge for anything it's seen as a "money grab" but I think cosmetic options is the least intrusive aspect of a game to monetize, and in this instance it leads to direct benefits to the game. Keeping rare customization options rare without having to tie them to a loss of player strength.
If this does lead to an actually good revenue flow then that allows you to remove or reduce costs to the player from other areas of the game such as lower premium fees or invest more of that cash back into game development. You can also pocket it of course but then it does lend some credibility to the "money grab" argument.
So I guess I have not much to say unfortunately.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me