It never sat right with me that people who got a copy for free got to play it so far ahead of people paying. A day or 2 before should be more than plenty for reviews, considering its all instant these days (No having to wait for the next magazine)
Edit: Blind buying is fine, I do it all the time. What I don't do is demand a refund or complain when I make a mistake. I just accept that it is my fault and move on. If you're in a position when you cannot afford to make mistakes buying games then really, you should be in full control of the facts before buying... that seems like simple logic to me.
Blind buying is fine, I do it all the time. What I don't do is demand a refund or complain when I make a mistake. I just accept that it is my fault and move on. If you're in a position when you cannot afford to make mistakes buying games then really, you should be in full control of the facts before buying... that seems like simple logic to me.
Good for them. Most reviews I've read lately suck. It's about what the individual wanted and expectations, rather than the game design intent vs. execution.
Thanks Bethesda. You have made the choice of whether or not to buy one of your games really easy. its no longer a question of "does this game look fun? do the reviewers I trust have good things to say about it?" and now "should I support anti-consumer practices?". Since I don't, I never even have to consider a Bethesda product again.
It never sat right with me that people who got a copy for free got to play it so far ahead of people paying. A day or 2 before should be more than plenty for reviews, considering its all instant these days (No having to wait for the next magazine)
Edit: Blind buying is fine, I do it all the time. What I don't do is demand a refund or complain when I make a mistake. I just accept that it is my fault and move on. If you're in a position when you cannot afford to make mistakes buying games then really, you should be in full control of the facts before buying... that seems like simple logic to me.
Yep, I blind buy all the time. It's like a movie or restaurant I haven't tried. If I don't like it I won't go back. If it's bad enough I may say so, but I don't blame anyone for the experience. It's a risk I was willing to take.
It's not just that they had the copy for free so far in advance, but that they also took advantage to push whatever agenda they have. It's never about a "Let's Play" before the release so players can make an informed decision. It's about strong reactions and opinions, generating buzz and controversy to drive those clicks. It's about nerd raging and righteous indignation and all sorts of loud conflict and hoopla. That can wait until after release for all I care.
When it comes to restaurants as well as many other things. What one views or perceives is not always the case. It can be the most beautiful establishment that cooks a totally crappy meaI and the greasy spoon at the other end of town is to die for.
A reputable business will have no problem letting you try before you buy or refunding you if your not satisfied.
Back in the 1980's I shopped at a store called Super Software it was the best and pretty much only place for a selection of computer games. Games were $50-$70 back then. They would let you try any game in store back then. They would open the cellophane for you themselves and you could play for as long as you liked on their computers. I always got to make an informed decision.
I really liked that.
What stopping video game companies from giving you a test drive? or letting you refund the game within a certain amount of playtime?
Nothing
And I believe we would get better games for it.
I believe that if you feel the need to leave a movie half way through because it's crap you should be entitled to a refund as well.
I'm not a reviewer, but I suspect they do need time to do their work. This will have zero effect on hype and over speculation. Once word gets out, however it gets out, about an upcoming game there will be hype. This is about the race to be first, I say that Vloggers and Bloggers have won. Print reviews have lost. In 1992 I had a friend who wrote for a magazine. Their work took 2 months to get published. That magazine is gone now, and my friend is now a Vlogger.
I also thought maybe they can't decide who would get to go first. Bethesda ran the risk of offending the more powerful voice. Or what if the issue was security, advanced copies ran the risk of becoming pirated copies.
Do you have a link to your friend's vlog? I'm sure I am not the only person who wants to check it out.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
That means less "launch day" sales since those of us with a bit of self control will wait to see the reviews/gameplay videos.
Entirely possible.
With the fragmented nature of the media however it won't be possible to provide review copies to every wannabe reviewer. And if it provides pre-release versions any fault will be magnified. If it provides a release copy and then waits for the "detailed reviews" - well it highly likely that it could have been selling copies so this would be a waste.
Another plus: no one needed to co-ordinate with said reviewers, arrange downloads and so forth. And less likely to get early leaks of game code.
For consumers who don't want to buy on day 1 this simply means waiting a few days.
(Whilst those who pre-order of course will still pre-order.)
It never sat right with me that people who got a copy for free got to play it so far ahead of people paying.
Are paying for the game or for early access? It feel a bit like entitlement to me. If it is beta testing you are complaining about, then no, you are not entitled to it before someone who hasn't paid. That is not what testing is suppose to be about.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Any way you shake it and no matter how much you hate click-bait reviewers or how proud you are of being able to independently guess smartly which will be the good ones, this is not in any way, shape or form a positive development for consumers.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
This is a clear and exact commentary where the public and industry (for those that don't buy reviews) stand on gaming 'journalism'.
It's been a self aggrandized payola/ personal agenda driven cesspit of self proclaimed 'experts' for decades. Hell, I was around for 'Rise of the Robots'. My cynicism for the review industry and everyone in it is deep and long (baby).
What's the point in giving 'reviewers' copies? They are all just subjective at best and liars at worst. The internet age has just made it x1000 worse.
This is the best way to go forward as the level of hysteria by the lack of responsibility on the buyer who just goes out without doing any research and buying something has reached levels where personal responsibility is negligible. They then decide to go everywhere and crap over stuff they imagined in their head.
So limiting exposure is the best way to ensure this does not happen with frequency and people learn to be patient.
Sweet! Lets blame the buyers and not the gaming media that gets paid to overhype the crap out of games like No Mans Sky. I got 40 minutes of video that will show you just how bad the media is about over hyping games before release.
I am absolutely speechless that you feel the marketing and hype behind games should continue with no actual gameplay videos being shown before release, just like No Mans Sky because that is exactly what the gaming industry needs, more hype and less actual information about games before release.
Yes this is a harsh world learn to be patient and not buy blindly. Why shouldn't I blame the impatient ,naive and gullible player that buys then complains and refuses to take responsibility for their own rash purchases. Don't be stupid with your money . Make sure you spend your money wisely.
So it is the "impatient, naive and gullible player" who is at fault for buying No Mans Sky based on the gaming media and developer interviews saying it has PvP and multiplayer functionality when it clearly does not?
We need reviews featuring actual gameplay like those from Angry Joe and Total Biscuit to help us see past the hype created from the devs and gaming media. Without those, you just have to take the devs word for what is actually in the game. I think most of us can agree, that is not a good idea.
So it is the "impatient, naive and gullible player" who is at fault for
buying No Mans Sky based on the gaming media and developer interviews
saying it has PvP and multiplayer functionality when it clearly does
not?
I'm OK with this decision. I don't buy Bethesda games full price at launch. Skyrim was the only exception to that rule. Their games go down in price very quickly and by that time there are plenty of reviews and gameplay videos out there.
EDIT: I'm OK if they do it, and I'm OK if they don't do it.
I think this is more of a realization that commercial/paid for reviews are not taken as seriously any more.
Too many games have received high critic scores out of the gate and been crap. TW:Rome2, NMS, and even just now Civ6 is getting critic scores in the 90s and player scores below 80.
Personally, I don't trust any "professional" review any more, and I am not alone.
At metacritic highest paid review for NMS on PC was 75 with an average of 61, average for TW:Rome2 was 76 and nothing like the 90s you talk about.
Must be a different universe than I live in, because there were 20+ 90s from so called professional critics when TW:Rome2 launched. There was even one that gave that game 100, for a game with terrible bugs, a rock stupid AI, CTDs, and everything else for a full priced $60 title. 20% of people could not even start the game.
It took them 6 months of patching to make that pile of drek playable.
Go look at the forums from the launch period.
That does not look like a 90+ game to me.
Edit: Apparently, you have problems with reading comprehension, because all of those 90+ reviews I mentioned are still there. Notice the September 2 date on them, that being the release date. Those being the reviews of the pre-release content. Most of the reviews dragging down the score did not happen until later. I.E., the actual released game.
That. Is. The. Point.
The whole issue is that instead of actually having a balanced view that there are plenty of reviewers that do their job you simply focus on people that got it wrong, especially focusing on review scores instead of bothering to read the actual review.
If you actually checked the credentials of some of those sites that gave high reviews you would know that many of them are gamers that are hobby writers, if you read the reviews you would know it as well.
The biggest issue are people that think that just because a game got a score of 9 or higher they will automatically enjoy the game and nothing could be further from the truth. There are plenty of gaming journalists that I trust that have given 9+ on games that I would never buy, its because I bother to read the review instead of just checking scores.
If I want to know how the game is I tend to find two separate reviewers, one that is fairly positive and another that is bit negative so I get the whole picture. I dont fin'd it relevant that sites like "digitally downloaded" and "The digital fix" gave a game 100 since I have never read their reviews before.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
Any way you shake it and no matter how much you hate click-bait reviewers or how proud you are of being able to independently guess smartly which will be the good ones, this is not in any way, shape or form a positive development for consumers.
Your little guess bit, doesn't that assume you are buying it in release date? Can you wait to find out how it is from reviewers? If you do listen to reviews either before or after release, does that guarantee that you will have a similar appreciation of the game?
You could buy a positively reviewed game and still get a negative enjoyment. You could avoid a negatively reviewed game that you might have enjoyed if you had taken a risk. Taking risk out of life makes for a boring life imo.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I tend to rely on player reviews more than professional reviewers. I read both positive and negative ones and I am more inclined to wait for the price of the game to drop before I buy something making it possible to be privy to both the problems and the good points that a game has to offer.
I do occasionally buy games early but when I do, I do not go and whine about how I was cheated and stuff and try to get a pity party going for me.
Any way you shake it and no matter how much you hate click-bait reviewers or how proud you are of being able to independently guess smartly which will be the good ones, this is not in any way, shape or form a positive development for consumers.
Your little guess bit, doesn't that assume you are buying it in release date? Can you wait to find out how it is from reviewers? If you do listen to reviews either before or after release, does that guarantee that you will have a similar appreciation of the game?
You could buy a positively reviewed game and still get a negative enjoyment. You could avoid a negatively reviewed game that you might have enjoyed if you had taken a risk. Taking risk out of life makes for a boring life imo.
No it doesn't assume a release date or pre-order purchase. You can inform yourself in a variety of ways: playing it some yourself is the best way but there are very few times we can actually do that these days. Watching gameplay footage is probably second best and watching or reading descriptions from good reviewers or even forum posts is the next best way... review score numbers actually mean shit to me - it's the details I want.
What Bethesda is doing is pushing back the availability of the 2nd and 3rd best tools we have for making an informed decision so that the time during which they have full control of the message is a few days longer. What they really want is more people taking the plunge with less information available.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Remember when games just appeared on the shelves. Ahhh....the good old days.
Well like @laserit said above, in those good old days we did have some stores that would let you try it in the store (I happen to live in the same city as him and was a customer of the same Super Software store in Richmond, BC.) It was also common for gaming magazines to have demos in the CDs inside them.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I tend to rely on player reviews more than professional reviewers. I read both positive and negative ones and I am more inclined to wait for the price of the game to drop before I buy something making it possible to be privy to both the problems and the good points that a game has to offer.
I do occasionally buy games early but when I do, I do not go and whine about how I was cheated and stuff and try to get a pity party going for me.
I have friends and game devs I listen to then interpret what they say. You still get a bad game. Rather risk getting a bad game than missing out on a good one.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Remember when games just appeared on the shelves. Ahhh....the good old days.
Well like @laserit said above, in those good old days we did have some stores that would let you try it in the store (I happen to live in the same city as him and was a customer of the same Super Software store in Richmond, BC.) It was also common for gaming magazines to have demos in the CDs inside them.
I do remember three of us going into egghead at lunch one day and getting that first three levels of doom for I think it was $3 or $5 (split three ways). The next day were all talking about how much fun we had and eventually chipped in for the remaining levels.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
It doesn't effect me much since I rarely buy a game on day one anymore. I usually wait a few months for them to go on sale, usually at 50% off or more. That being said, I don't think this is a good policy for customers. I'm not sure if it got early reviews or not, but the PC version of Mafia 3 was limited to 30 fps when it was released. I believe this has been fixed but it would have been nice to know something like that before purchasing. If games are buggy or incomplete, early reviews can help to point that out. Sometimes the pre-order bonuses being offered are pretty good and hard to resist if you were thinking of getting the game eventually. Knowing about technical difficulties ahead of time could outweigh any benefit from the pre-order items in your decision to buy. I'd be more OK with no early reviews if there was a demo to try but having a demo is rare these days.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Comments
Edit: Blind buying is fine, I do it all the time. What I don't do is demand a refund or complain when I make a mistake. I just accept that it is my fault and move on. If you're in a position when you cannot afford to make mistakes buying games then really, you should be in full control of the facts before buying... that seems like simple logic to me.
I play MMOs for the Forum PVP
A reputable business will have no problem letting you try before you buy or refunding you if your not satisfied.
Back in the 1980's I shopped at a store called Super Software it was the best and pretty much only place for a selection of computer games. Games were $50-$70 back then. They would let you try any game in store back then. They would open the cellophane for you themselves and you could play for as long as you liked on their computers. I always got to make an informed decision.
I really liked that.
What stopping video game companies from giving you a test drive? or letting you refund the game within a certain amount of playtime?
Nothing
And I believe we would get better games for it.
I believe that if you feel the need to leave a movie half way through because it's crap you should be entitled to a refund as well.
Everything within reason.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Do you have a link to your friend's vlog? I'm sure I am not the only person who wants to check it out.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
With the fragmented nature of the media however it won't be possible to provide review copies to every wannabe reviewer. And if it provides pre-release versions any fault will be magnified. If it provides a release copy and then waits for the "detailed reviews" - well it highly likely that it could have been selling copies so this would be a waste.
Another plus: no one needed to co-ordinate with said reviewers, arrange downloads and so forth. And less likely to get early leaks of game code.
For consumers who don't want to buy on day 1 this simply means waiting a few days.
(Whilst those who pre-order of course will still pre-order.)
Are paying for the game or for early access? It feel a bit like entitlement to me. If it is beta testing you are complaining about, then no, you are not entitled to it before someone who hasn't paid. That is not what testing is suppose to be about.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
It's been a self aggrandized payola/ personal agenda driven cesspit of self proclaimed 'experts' for decades. Hell, I was around for 'Rise of the Robots'. My cynicism for the review industry and everyone in it is deep and long (baby).
What's the point in giving 'reviewers' copies? They are all just subjective at best and liars at worst. The internet age has just made it x1000 worse.
Yes.
EDIT: I'm OK if they do it, and I'm OK if they don't do it.
If you actually checked the credentials of some of those sites that gave high reviews you would know that many of them are gamers that are hobby writers, if you read the reviews you would know it as well.
The biggest issue are people that think that just because a game got a score of 9 or higher they will automatically enjoy the game and nothing could be further from the truth. There are plenty of gaming journalists that I trust that have given 9+ on games that I would never buy, its because I bother to read the review instead of just checking scores.
If I want to know how the game is I tend to find two separate reviewers, one that is fairly positive and another that is bit negative so I get the whole picture. I dont fin'd it relevant that sites like "digitally downloaded" and "The digital fix" gave a game 100 since I have never read their reviews before.
Your little guess bit, doesn't that assume you are buying it in release date? Can you wait to find out how it is from reviewers? If you do listen to reviews either before or after release, does that guarantee that you will have a similar appreciation of the game?
You could buy a positively reviewed game and still get a negative enjoyment. You could avoid a negatively reviewed game that you might have enjoyed if you had taken a risk. Taking risk out of life makes for a boring life imo.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
I do occasionally buy games early but when I do, I do not go and whine about how I was cheated and stuff and try to get a pity party going for me.
What Bethesda is doing is pushing back the availability of the 2nd and 3rd best tools we have for making an informed decision so that the time during which they have full control of the message is a few days longer. What they really want is more people taking the plunge with less information available.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
So as a player, i don't see a reason to cheer on this move (yet), but i'm rather cautiously pessimistic.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I have friends and game devs I listen to then interpret what they say. You still get a bad game. Rather risk getting a bad game than missing out on a good one.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
@laserit is correct. That isn't today's market.
I do remember three of us going into egghead at lunch one day and getting that first three levels of doom for I think it was $3 or $5 (split three ways). The next day were all talking about how much fun we had and eventually chipped in for the remaining levels.
The thing I miss from old games is LAN parties.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.