Why MMO over Multiplayer?

jusomdude

I'm wondering why people prefer MMO games over smaller multiplayer but similar games. I'm starting to realize that after so many players, any extra doesn't really matter much and that I could be just as satisfied playing a game with less amount of players.

MMOs aren't really what I'd imagined they would be like before I played my first one. I guess I thought they'd be more like virtual worlds than genocide simulators, or errand boy simulators.

I like seeing people in the world but I've come to realize that having them isn't really a good reason to play an MMO. I would do just as fine playing with less people in the world while having a fairly large chat channel.


Reasons I like MMOs:

-The worlds are usually pretty big.
-Seeing other players around makes the game seem more alive.
-The chat can be pretty funny/entertaining.
-Large scale PvP is more fun than small scale.
-Persistence.
-Open worlds. (Not MMO exclusive)

... And I think that's it.

Out of those, the only things that would really be different with less players in the world is the large scale PvP.

I think I'd be fine playing games with a max of 16-32 players allowed in an area.

So why do you prefer MMOs over smaller scale multiplayer games?

LynxJSA

I like market/econ sims, and chatting with people weirder than me. MMOs have that. I also FPS and MOBAs for the combat and competition. I play MMOs mostly for the world. 

SomethingUnusual

Simple answer is nothing to do with PvP. The appeal is in the PvE for some. Granted I prefer the MMO myself as a PvPer, it's about the world and participation. Multiplayer it's simply win or lose and leader boards. Massively multiplayer it's persistence and conquest, if I lose I can come back with greater numbers etc. The look over the shoulder not just jump in and fight.

4507

Persistence and open endedness, mainly. In normal multiplayer games, you're confined to a relatively small area focused on one or two specific goals. In MMOs, however, the world is massive and you have multiple self motivated goals (in a sandbox, at least - which is why I dislike themeparks).

jusomdude

So if there were games with open, large worlds and persistence, would you care that there were maybe half the players you could interact with at a time?

filmoret

ESO and GW2 wvw with over 100 players is just really cool.
GW2, RIFT, Archeage, BDO, Everquest open world made it so you could easily see 100 players all working together to achieve a goal in world events.

Other then those examples.... there are a few good mmo's but for the most part they are nothing more then multiplayer instances.

craftseeker

jusomdude said:

So if there were games with open, large worlds and persistence, would you care that there were maybe half the players you could interact with at a time?

This is just rehashing the question of what Massively Multiplayer means. 

If the response to 'maybe half' is yes you go on to ask what about a quarter? etc.
If the response to 'maybe half' is no you go on to ask what about two thirds? etc

The number is variable depending on the individual concerned. For me the appeal of MMORPGs is the variety of people I can encounter as I play. Generally the larger the number of people encountered the greater the variety.

jusomdude

craftseeker said:

jusomdude said:

So if there were games with open, large worlds and persistence, would you care that there were maybe half the players you could interact with at a time?

This is just rehashing the question of what Massively Multiplayer means. 

If the response to 'maybe half' is yes you go on to ask what about a quarter? etc.
If the response to 'maybe half' is no you go on to ask what about two thirds? etc

The number is variable depending on the individual concerned. For me the appeal of MMORPGs is the variety of people I can encounter as I play. Generally the larger the number of people encountered the greater the variety.

IDK about you but 99% of the people I encounter are just there with no interaction. If I'm looking for a group or people to socialize with I go to chat channels or gathering areas which could be done in small scale multiplayer games that have a global, or large chat channels.

jusomdude

Vardahoth said:

The game mechanics have scaled down so much now that having an MMO just doesn't make sense. Pretty much most games are MO games advertised as MMO's because MMO grabs more "oooohhhs and aaaaawees" over MO's.

The things that once made MMO's so great where the freedom where anything could happen. Now there are just so many rules, you can't really have a good MMO (because everything being built goes against what an MMO is supposed to support). In my signature, you will find the bullet points of all things built that have ruined MMO's, and made them no longer desirable to play.

That's pretty much what I'm saying... there's not much reason to have a full blown MMO over an MO these days. There's not many things that can't be done in an MO that can be done in an MMO. Like I said earlier large battles can be fun, and I like the chaos of them, but there's only so many people needed for that effect and more just adds to performance issues.

Ridelynn

Well, in just "online" games, it's hard to build up a community inside the game. Sure, it's still possible to do, but most of the meeting and interaction happens outside the game (like on a forum or chat room), and only a few people get to play together at a time.

That's not to say that a "online" game couldn't have these community features that are typically found in MMOs - just that they usually don't, since you don't run across a lot of unique individuals in a single play session - you may play with a handful in a single match and that's all you meet.

Eldurian

Things I Like About MMOs:

1. MMO unique social aspects
   a. Forming groups of like minded friends.
   b. Helping out weaker players and groups.
   c. Claiming and defending your own territory. Building something grand.
   d. Becoming well known in the community.
   e. Burning your enemy's holdings to the ground and peeing on the ashes.
   f.  Griefing the griefers.
   g. Becoming feared by those you want to fear you.
2. Massive world to explore

Things I Dislike About MMOs:

1. The Grind
  a. Massively high barrier to entry.
  b. Stats meaning more than player skills.
  c. Having to do boring content to get to the interesting content.
2. Lack of variety and scarcity of new ideas in new MMOs.
3. Echo chamber like communities stifling progress in the industry.
4. Pay to win games.

Obviously there is a very select style of MMOs I like.

galphar

I find myself wanting to go back and play Guild Wars over a lot of the MMO games currently out now. The nice thing about GW was it was a CoRPG and not a MMORPG. Meaning the max number of people in a zone was 8 and you were all on the same team. You had Cities or Hubs were you could put together your team and then go and explore the world at your leisure not having to worry about someone stealing your "kill" or taking a crafting material from you.

craftseeker

jusomdude said:

craftseeker said:

jusomdude said:

So if there were games with open, large worlds and persistence, would you care that there were maybe half the players you could interact with at a time?

This is just rehashing the question of what Massively Multiplayer means. 

If the response to 'maybe half' is yes you go on to ask what about a quarter? etc.
If the response to 'maybe half' is no you go on to ask what about two thirds? etc

The number is variable depending on the individual concerned. For me the appeal of MMORPGs is the variety of people I can encounter as I play. Generally the larger the number of people encountered the greater the variety.

IDK about you but 99% of the people I encounter are just there with no interaction. If I'm looking for a group or people to socialize with I go to chat channels or gathering areas which could be done in small scale multiplayer games that have a global, or large chat channels.

I think you and others may be right. Which is really disappointing for me. When I started playing MMORPGs what really got me hooked was the random social encounters in the open world.  What disappoints me the most in MMORPGs today is that it no longer happens. 

So my arguing that we need MMORPGs rather than small scale multiplayer games falls flat. If you aren't getting that random social thing then why bother with MMORPGs at all?

Sovrath

galphar said:

I find myself wanting to go back and play Guild Wars over a lot of the MMO games currently out now. The nice thing about GW was it was a CoRPG and not a MMORPG. Meaning the max number of people in a zone was 8 and you were all on the same team. You had Cities or Hubs were you could put together your team and then go and explore the world at your leisure not having to worry about someone stealing your "kill" or taking a crafting material from you.

While I prefer "worlds" with a lot of people, I can see what you are saying. There's a lot to be said about the original guild wars' way of doing things.

Love my necromancer there.

SaunZ

I like MMOs WAY better so that I can comment on them here on MMORPG.  It just seems SO silly trying to make a lesser capable MO argument and then posting it on MMORPG.  Go to like MORPG if you like tiny little MOs.  MMOs are what this whole website is about.

Hey ALL you MMO'ers out there!  I like to only be around 8 to 16 people... but I want to tell a BUNCH of people!

LOL

I love coming to MMORPG to read new funny stuff... even about little MOs.

Sz  

Kyleran

Greater opportunities for interesting social interaction in a more populated virtual world.

Interesting can be both positive or negative and modern MMOs frequently disappoint me by either prohibiting player interactions (when negative) or offering convenience features which oft times reduces opportunities.

If one does not desire interacting with others then a smaller number probably makes more sense, but for person with my preferences a MMORPG like EVE is the way to go.

Time to interact, baby!

bcbully

So many people create so many opportunities and long term value.

iixviiiix

I liked MMO because the drama . When the drama gone , i gone .

Eldurian

iixviiiix said:

I liked MMO because the drama . When the drama gone , i gone .

Kind of true. I lost interest in an MMO much more quickly if there isn't someone I really, really, want make leave the game in tears.

H0urg1ass

jusomdude said:

So if there were games with open, large worlds and persistence, would you care that there were maybe half the players you could interact with at a time?

Persistence is a buzzword, a cruel joke and almost completely non-existent in modern MMO's.  There are very very few MMORPG's, such as EVE Online, where there is any persistence at all.  

Sure, characters have persistence because they accumulate gear and crap.  There's some persistence in the markets.  But then again, a lot of multiplayer games have character persistence and a few even have markets between the matches. 

The rest of the games are highly instanced.  You kill a boss, does he stay dead?  Nope, you go back next Tuesday and kill him again.  Is there any form of empire building in most games?  Not many games like EVE allow you to truly carve out a section of the world and call it your own.  Even player housing is instanced in most games.

Some of the upcoming MMORPG's, however, are offering what I would even consider close to a persistent world, however, they are some ways off.

Eldurian

Vardahoth said:

jusomdude said:

Vardahoth said:

The game mechanics have scaled down so much now that having an MMO just doesn't make sense. Pretty much most games are MO games advertised as MMO's because MMO grabs more "oooohhhs and aaaaawees" over MO's.

The things that once made MMO's so great where the freedom where anything could happen. Now there are just so many rules, you can't really have a good MMO (because everything being built goes against what an MMO is supposed to support). In my signature, you will find the bullet points of all things built that have ruined MMO's, and made them no longer desirable to play.

That's pretty much what I'm saying... there's not much reason to have a full blown MMO over an MO these days. There's not many things that can't be done in an MO that can be done in an MMO. Like I said earlier large battles can be fun, and I like the chaos of them, but there's only so many people needed for that effect and more just adds to performance issues.

And when is the last time you have actually seen an mmorpg with large battles? They are all faction based battle grounds now.

Like I said, everything has been stripped away for what once made mmorpg's great.

ArcheAge. There were some pretty epic battles in ArcheAge. And while there are factions you can actually turn on your own faction if you want.

But yeah they are rare.

VideoJockey

The only difference is design and scope of the game. City of Heroes and The Matrix Online weren't mechanically much different than what a Grand Theft Auto MMO would be. Many MMOs have very similar MO or even single player counterparts. It boils down to personal preference. Do I want to be a small part of a big world that keeps on spinning without me? Do I want to play exclusively with my RL friends? Do I have the time to invest in a complex MMO or do I need something that I can play for an hour a few times per week?

The games have changed to accommodate the player base (or lack thereof). A lot of people now in their 30s and even 40s started playing MMOs 15-20 years ago when they were the new thing to play, when we could find 20-30 hours per week (or more) to play them, and we had maybe 5 games to choose from. Very few people from that first generation of MMO players can still play the way they used to and the market is now oversaturated and far more competitive-- if your game isn't still fun after the first month, there's 20 others to choose from, and 14 of them are free. It's not so much that the players demand instant gratification and easy games, it's that the developers need to make them that way to keep people from taking their money and going somewhere else.

SaunZ

iixviiiix said:

I liked MMO because the drama . When the drama gone , i gone .

LOL... /agree!   MMOs without drama are boring!  Guilds without drama are boring!  Groups, Raids, Clans, Kinships, Fellowships, Pods, Hives, Events, etc without drama are boring!

Sz  

Muke

jusomdude said:

So why do you prefer MMOs over smaller scale multiplayer games?

MMO = online world that keeps going

Mplayer= short smallscale multiplayer matches that reset when it is done.

2 different genres that can not be compared.

Distopia

Muke said:

jusomdude said:

So why do you prefer MMOs over smaller scale multiplayer games?

MMO = online world that keeps going

Mplayer= short smallscale multiplayer matches that reset when it is done.

2 different genres that can not be compared.

You're forgetting games like life is Feudal, Gloria Victus, Ark...Etc...

In those games Socialization just seems to come a bit more naturally than you find in current mmorpgs IMO. I'd guess due to the design of the games, finding a group to play with is essential to getting the full experience. 

TBH these games feel more like MMOs than anything I've played since SWG pre-NGE.

Vermillion_Raventhal

iixviiiix said:

I liked MMO because the drama . When the drama gone , i gone .

Player interactions are scarified for convenience and safe play. 

At this point you could do everything multiplayers and just que up raids and dungeons and make the experience better because less latency workarounds are needed for small scale multiplayer.