Intel Kaby Lake - no improvement over Skylake

Malabooga

http://wccftech.com/intel-kaby-lake-core-i5-7600k-review/

turns out Kabylake is literally little OCed Skylake

no IPC gains, no efficiency gains (a bit higher stock clocks, a bit higher stock performance and a bit higher stock power consumption)

Saxx0n

My gamble with skylake chipset is paying off nicely then 

Vrika

It looks like 8% faster due to faster clock speeds, and a minor upgrade to the integrated GPU.

Nothing that would be worth upgrading to, but it's 8% more performance that AMD has to catch somehow.

13lake

The only Kaby Lake that's worth getting is the Kaby Lake-X quad-core on the new extreme X299 chipset. This one not so much.

SEANMCAD

I predict Moores Law

13lake

SEANMCAD said:

I predict Moores Law

If this is reply to my post, then it is pointless spam, and i politely ask mods to remove the post, considering it is completely unconnected to what i wrote.

The redeeming qualities of Kaby Lake-X are better IHS, larger die area, possible L4 cache implementation, high tdp margin, which would all lead to a very possible, very fast 5.0GHz clocked cpu without a gpu on board.

SEANMCAD

13lake said:

SEANMCAD said:

I predict Moores Law

If this is reply to my post, then it is pointless spam, and i politely ask mods to remove the post, considering it is completely unconnected to what i wrote.

The redeeming qualities of Kaby Lake-X are better IHS, larger die area, possible L4 cache implementation, high tdp margin, which would all lead to a very possible, very fast 5.0GHz clocked cpu without a gpu on board.

I predict that once everything is said and done released and fully reviewed that this generation will be as expected which is the same incremental leap in performance that each of the past generations where.

Its not spam, I am just giving you my prediction. You dont have to like the prediction or agree with it but I am not changing it.

Quizzical

SEANMCAD said:

I predict Moores Law

And I predict that the sun will rise in the east tomorrow.  You only get credit for making non-obvious predictions.

SEANMCAD

Quizzical said:

SEANMCAD said:

I predict Moores Law

And I predict that the sun will rise in the east tomorrow.  You only get credit for making non-obvious predictions.

my prediction contradicts what the OP is asserting at the moment.

Ridelynn

Should be no surprise, we saw pretty much the same thing with Haswell->Devil's Canyon, you could even say Haswell -> Broadwell, that was so "similar" they didn't even widely release desktop SKUs of that CPU.

Ridelynn

Vrika said:

It looks like 8% faster due to faster clock speeds, and a minor upgrade to the integrated GPU.

Nothing that would be worth upgrading to, but it's 8% more performance that AMD has to catch somehow.

Nah, AMD doesn't have to catch Intel in performance. They just need to be competitive on price vs performance.

Of course, catching them in performance would certainly not hurt.

Ridelynn

Intel is slowing down. I don't know about Moore's Law

Vrika

Ridelynn said:

Vrika said:

It looks like 8% faster due to faster clock speeds, and a minor upgrade to the integrated GPU.

Nothing that would be worth upgrading to, but it's 8% more performance that AMD has to catch somehow.

Nah, AMD doesn't have to catch Intel in performance. They just need to be competitive on price vs performance.

Thank you, I stand corrected.

If prices on that article are correct, Kaby Lake processors will cost the same as Sky Lake while being 8% faster. So AMD has also the option to decrease their prices by 8% to compete.

Malabooga

Theres no "8% improvement" Kaby Lake performs pretty much identically to Skylake. Even GPU

Malabooga

i5-6500 OCed to 5100 MHz (yeah no "k" needed for OC on Skylake, so why would anyone pay "premium" for Kaby Lake "k" just to be able ot OC....or any other Kaby Lake chip as you 99,99% cannot OC them like Skylake chips and they bring 0 improvements to the table...)

gervaise1

"Intel's incremental performance increases may not appear to be cataclysmic, but the first products with the 14nm+ process target a majority of workloads that are relevant to mobile users. In all, the refinements will give many users a reason to upgrade from older systems, but they surely will not spur tech enthusiasts to discard their Skylake mobile devices in favor of Kaby Lake designs."

This was the summary - in August - in:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-7th-gen-core-kaby-lake-preview,4728.html

Comments on Intel#s presentations in the article; there are other articles as well: at http://www.anandtech.com/show/10802/desktop-kaby-lakes-lineup-base-frequencies-chipset-names

And this mirrored in the Kirby Lake vs. Sky Lake "summary" in the article the OP linked.

So nothing we see in the coming weeks / months should come as a surprise.There will be gains in certain applications and improved power efficiency in certain applications. Especially in mobile. (Won't hurt the growth of Small Form Factor either.)

Crucial for manufacturers is the fact that Kaby Lake is drop in compatible for Sky Lake. This is huge as it makes it much easier for everyone in the manufacturing chain to recover their investment costs and for production yields to be optimised ultimately bringing prices down. 

Malabooga

Kaby Lake comes with new platform. And there are still piles of unsold Hswell as well as Skylake chips with their accompanying platforms in the market which havent come down in price.

What you say would happen only if manufacturers completely ignore new platform and just continue making Skylake platform.

SEANMCAD

what chance to you guys think that once everything is settled and fully released and into production that the performance gain will be around the same % as last generation?

Vrika

Malabooga said:

Theres no "8% improvement" Kaby Lake performs pretty much identically to Skylake.

Stop lying, please



Increase of 8.5%





Increase of 6.8%




Increase of 8.0% (red bar), and 7.6% (green bar)





Increase of 7.8%






Increase of 5.3%





Increase of 8.8%





Increase of 15.4%





Increase of 7.6%



That's about increase of 8%, or maybe 7%, mostly thanks to increased clock speed.

Malabooga

mostly thanks to increased clock speed.

and you can get that clockspeed with any Skylake CPU.

No improvement whatsoever.

Ridelynn

Malabooga said:

Kaby Lake comes with new platform. And there are still piles of unsold Hswell as well as Skylake chips with their accompanying platforms in the market which havent come down in price.

What you say would happen only if manufacturers completely ignore new platform and just continue making Skylake platform.

It kinda looks like they are. Apple's newest line is Skylake. Razor's latest Blade is Skylake. The new MS Surface Studio is Skylake.

Vrika

Malabooga said:

mostly thanks to increased clock speed.

and you can get that clockspeed with any Skylake CPU.

No improvement whatsoever.

That's a test for instructions per clock cycle, and I5-7600K is underclocked from its boost speed of 4.2GHz so that it would match I5-6600K.

No side-by-side overclocking comparison has been done. We know that Kaby Lake is faster at stock speeds. We don't know how well it overclocks compared to Skylake. You're just inventing data.

Quizzical

Torval said:

Moore's law is slowing down. Skylake to Kaby Lake will be 3 - 3.5 years instead of the traditional 2. Counts are still increasing but the pace at which they're increasing is slowing and what happens after 7nm is uncertain.

10nm is likely more than a year away so I guess the attraction of the platform will be on price and features vs Skylake.

I'm not sure what you're talking about.  Sky Lake has only been available for a little over a year.

Quizzical

SEANMCAD said:

what chance to you guys think that once everything is settled and fully released and into production that the performance gain will be around the same % as last generation?

I'll bet you that the gains AMD gets by moving from Excavator to Zen will be bigger than the gains Intel gets from moving from Sky Lake to Kaby Lake.  What does Moore's Law say about that?

Malabooga

Vrika said:

Malabooga said:

mostly thanks to increased clock speed.

and you can get that clockspeed with any Skylake CPU.

No improvement whatsoever.

That's a test for instructions per clock cycle, and I5-7600K is underclocked from its boost speed of 4.2GHz so that it would match I5-6600K.

No side-by-side overclocking comparison has been done. We know that Kaby Lake is faster at stock speeds. We don't know how well it overclocks compared to Skylake. You're just inventing data.

There has been few leaks of OCed Kaby Lake and im sorry to inform you that it doesnt really do better than Skylake.

Ive already posted 5,1 GHz i5-6500 results...yeah 6500 not 6600k (so will you even be able to OC anything but Kaby Lake "k" like you can with Sky Lake, how will your i5-7500 fare against 5,1 GHz i5-6500?).

So why dont you tell us all what OC are you expecting from Kaby Lake to actually make a difference.

Vrika

Malabooga said:

i5-6500 OCed to 5100 MHz (yeah no "k" needed for OC on Skylake, so why would anyone pay "premium" for Kaby Lake "k" just to be able ot OC....or any other Kaby Lake chip as you 99,99% cannot OC them like Skylake chips and they bring 0 improvements to the table...)

That overclock was not stable, as admitted by the overclocker:

 http://www.overclock.net/t/1570313/skylake-overclocking-guide-with-statistics/7490#post_25217575


I think I'm done talking with you. You don't even care if the computer works as long as you can advance your own agenda.