STOP!

Ataaka

I woke up with a bit of concern this morning. People ask, 'Ataaka do you talk to yourself when you sleep?'...Yes, yes I do.

My favorite place on the internet is MMORPG.COM. It has been for years. No. I am not the leading topic poster in the history of mankind. I tend to pick and choose my discussions. I guess that might make me a 'Topic Sniper'.

Here is the skinny...

Over the past few years, there have been numerous posts where players have written comments that simply are not true to anyone but themselves. Given the freedom of speech, I ask that we use it a bit more responsibly. I value your insight. I want to believe your rant, your opinion, your review but I need you to be fair and honest.

Before MMOGs many of us played FPS or board DnD (something or another). We saw giants birth, like WoW. We saw launches fail like Conan. We lived through launch day queues and sat in towns waiting for the lights to go out on games the developers who no longer wished to support their product.

We are the dreamers. We are the players. We are the subscribers. Our voice may not be heard by developers, but we have a voice here. Our wallets speak louder than words. Please be fair and honest, as many of us deal with the truth very well.

'STOP' is my anagram for 'Topic Sniper'. It also reminds me that someone has to do the right thing...I am starting with myself.

If a game is good, say that it is good. If a game is great, say that it is great. If a game sucks, then say it.

I'm tired of 'What do you expect, it's ALPHA?'

I'm sick of 'Have you ever played a BETA?'

A game state does not rule out that people with vision do not need to be at the end to see it. Think of what you say as an apple being picked from a tree at the farm.

An apple picked by hand and carried to the house to eat looks the same as the one that is picked by a machine, processed through a factory, delivered to the market and placed on the shelf for sale...ALPHA, BETA, RELEASE! 

Call it like you see it but stop making excuses for companies that are not paying you to market their product. 

A bad apple is a bad apple.

CrazKanuk

Ataaka said:

I woke up with a bit of concern this morning. People ask, 'Ataaka do you talk to yourself when you sleep?'...Yes, yes I do.

My favorite place on the internet is MMORPG.COM. It has been for years. No. I am not the leading topic poster in the history of mankind. I tend to pick and choose my discussions. I guess that might make me a 'Topic Sniper'.

Here is the skinny...

Over the past few years, there have been numerous posts where players have written comments that simply are not true to anyone but themselves. Given the freedom of speech, I ask that we use it a bit more responsibly. I value your insight. I want to believe your rant, your opinion, your review but I need you to be fair and honest.

Before MMOGs many of us played FPS or board DnD (something or another). We saw giants birth, like WoW. We saw launches fail like Conan. We lived through launch day queues and sat in towns waiting for the lights to go out on games the developers who no longer wished to support their product.

We are the dreamers. We are the players. We are the subscribers. Our voice may not be heard by developers, but we have a voice here. Our wallets speak louder than words. Please be fair and honest, as many of us deal with the truth very well.

'STOP' is my anagram for 'Topic Sniper'. It also reminds me that someone has to do the right thing...I am starting with myself.

If a game is good, say that it is good. If a game is great, say that it is great. If a game sucks, then say it.

I'm tired of 'What do you expect, it's ALPHA?'

I'm sick of 'Have you ever played a BETA?'

A game state does not rule out that people with vision do not need to be at the end to see it. Think of what you say as an apple being picked from a tree at the farm.

An apple picked by hand and carried to the house to eat looks the same as the one that is picked by a machine, processed through a factory, delivered to the market and placed on the shelf for sale...ALPHA, BETA, RELEASE! 

Call it like you see it but stop making excuses for companies that are not paying you to market their product. 

A bad apple is a bad apple.

First off, your analogy is horrible. So your analogy is that if you picked an apple 2 months before it's ripe, it would taste the same as an apple picked when it was perfectly ripe? How about 1 month before? That's what we're talking about here. There may be times when you can tell that an apple will be horrible early on. However, for the most part, if you were to pick the BEST apple 2 months early, it's unlikely you'd enjoy it. 

I'm really sorry, but your comments with regards to Alpha/Beta are quite indicative of what's problematic today. People who are completely uneducated about the development process. This is actually the reason that I'm not a fan of early access programs. There was a time when alpha and beta access was decided based on your experience, technical knowledge, and maybe a little luck. From the Alpha and Beta programs I've participated in these past 3 or 4 years (which were limited), then state of the game is much improved over what it was in the past. So you would get a better representation of what to expect. However, there are also expectations which are completely misaligned with reality. People, literally, believe that these stages of development are simply marketing ploys. While that isn't entirely untrue these days, it complicates the fact that these are actual, real stages of development and stuff is actually happening on a daily or weekly basis to progress the game towards an actual release. 

A release doesn't guarantee that someone will all of a sudden love a game that they hated in alpha or beta, but it's not an excuse to say "It's in alpha". This type of post simply propagates the problem of a lack of education. 

Albatroes

Instead of stating the obvious about Alphas/Betas, maybe complain about how impatient people are to simply buy into them. That's the real problem.

mgilbrtsn

Ataaka said:

I woke up with a bit of concern this morning. People ask, 'Ataaka do you talk to yourself when you sleep?'...Yes, yes I do.

My favorite place on the internet is MMORPG.COM. It has been for years. No. I am not the leading topic poster in the history of mankind. I tend to pick and choose my discussions. I guess that might make me a 'Topic Sniper'.

Here is the skinny...

Over the past few years, there have been numerous posts where players have written comments that simply are not true to anyone but themselves. Given the freedom of speech, I ask that we use it a bit more responsibly. I value your insight. I want to believe your rant, your opinion, your review but I need you to be fair and honest.

Before MMOGs many of us played FPS or board DnD (something or another). We saw giants birth, like WoW. We saw launches fail like Conan. We lived through launch day queues and sat in towns waiting for the lights to go out on games the developers who no longer wished to support their product.

We are the dreamers. We are the players. We are the subscribers. Our voice may not be heard by developers, but we have a voice here. Our wallets speak louder than words. Please be fair and honest, as many of us deal with the truth very well.

'STOP' is my anagram for 'Topic Sniper'. It also reminds me that someone has to do the right thing...I am starting with myself.

If a game is good, say that it is good. If a game is great, say that it is great. If a game sucks, then say it.

I'm tired of 'What do you expect, it's ALPHA?'

I'm sick of 'Have you ever played a BETA?'

A game state does not rule out that people with vision do not need to be at the end to see it. Think of what you say as an apple being picked from a tree at the farm.

An apple picked by hand and carried to the house to eat looks the same as the one that is picked by a machine, processed through a factory, delivered to the market and placed on the shelf for sale...ALPHA, BETA, RELEASE! 

Call it like you see it but stop making excuses for companies that are not paying you to market their product. 

A bad apple is a bad apple.

Some of what you say I agree and some not.  While I agree people should choose their topics and comments responsibly, I disagree with treating any type of release the same.  BETAs are by definition 'works in progress.'  Thus, people should skew their comments on what changes need to be made in order to get a good product in the end.  It isn't making excuses, it's providing feedback to the developers to help steer the ship (or should be).  Once the product is final, then the commentary can go to 'final decision.'

Your analogy to apples is off.  Apples are apples and aren't developed in a complex, technological environment.  You aren't just giving a quick polish and shoving it out the door.  A better analogy would be a painting.  Do you judge it as it's being painted, or do you wait for final judgement when it's actually completed and all the shading and coloring is final.  Any analogy isn't perfect, but I think it hits closer to the mark.

Loke666

For some reason do the devs often give out access to pre-orderers and the general public way before they should, a MMO in alpha should only be tested internally and a game in beta is not supposed to be fun, beta testing a game is work (usually unpaid). 

In a crowdfunded game giving beta access to pledgers is fine since the company is kinda working for you but beta testing a AAA or even indie game is something you should handle by screening your applicants carefully and actually telling you what it is about.

Don't confuse a beta with the final stress testing of the servers, there you can certainly tell if the game sucks or not.

If you expect to have fun just stay far away from any beta, those are only if you want to spend your time helping the game to become better for the launch and are willing to work for free for that purpose.

The reason you shouldn't be complaining about a game in beta is that you shouldn't be in it altogether. You can of course still out that the game isn't your type, if you don't like FPS you wont like them during any stage of development no matter what but you don't need to find that out before the game releases anyways.

waynejr2

With the thread title I am disappointed we didn't get Hammer Time...............

filmoret

STOP,  Collaborate and listen...  Ice is back with a brand new invention.... Something grabbed ahold of me tightly....  Pulling like a harpoon daily and nightly.  Would it ever stop?  I dont know.  Ice is back blah blah...

BarbieBoy

I don't know but I guess I have to disagree on this one. I agree about what you said in being honest, if the game is crappy then say it out loud but hey, every person has their own taste bud. Like in coffee some prefer it black and some like it creamy. But I really have to disagree about judging a game while it's in Alpha and Beta phase. It's like saying that this caterpillar will not grow into a beautiful butterfly. So for me I'll have to pass my judgement after commercial release to the public.

Relampago

waynejr2 said:

With the thread title I am disappointed we didn't get Hammer Time...............

/thread

Octagon7711

That's the interesting thing about everything in life.  Everything has positive and negative sides.  We are free to focus on the side we want.  Some gamers focus only on the positive side of a game and others focus only on the negative sides, in the middle are every degree of focus gamers are capable of.  

So I accept the fact that gamers are basically like this.  So enjoy.

Panther2103

I don't agree at all. People can judge something based on the release version. If something is super prior to release but people can test it out, why can't they say "But it's in alpha" or beta for that? If it's pre release, and the development team are saying it is, that's what it is. You can throw bugs off, or gameplay features that are missing because it's not out yet. If they are selling it, and it's in that state, that is your own fault to buy it if you are expecting it to be fully fledged out. There's no reason to ignore the fact that it's in alpha or beta just because you can buy access early, or because it's open to play. That was whomever went in expecting more than what the game is currently offering. I don't think you should be able to fully review something in that state either. Sometimes games get COMPLETELY different after they come out of testing or early access. Some of them are the same. Once you see the final product, that's when you can truly judge something. It's your own damn fault if you spent money thinking otherwise.

Anireth

While there is, or today more like "should" be a difference between a game in alpha/beta and released, there usually is also a difference between various games with all in the same phase (alpha, beta, whatever). Comparing a game in beta to WoW as it is now is unfair, pointing out that game A has twice the features, looks better and has better performance while officially still being in alpha, while game B is in "early access" wih a release date two months away is not.

Also, while no one can perfectly predict whats happening in the future, we can somewhat accurately extrapolate from the past. If someone consistently delivered have finished game, why would their newest one be different? What reason is there to believe such? Now if it's a new studio with only a handful of guys from the old one, sure. But just because the name changed or something, or if every studio guy xyz founded suffered from this problem..

It's legimate to voice concerns then, even more so when it really lacks features compared to other games that are also in beta etc.

JudgeUK

Hammer time.

Flem

STOP isn't an anagram of Topic Sniper as you would need to use all the letters not just 4 of them...just saying.

Wizardry

I would argue that ALL games are just average at best.Every single game can do MUCH better,pretty much anyone off the street could improve every single game out there.Every single one of these games are cutting corners on design and all are just flat out missing a LOT of possible game play.

When the richest mmorpg "WOW" and Blizzard are too cheap to have housing,it really sends a strong message that devs will only the bare minimum,all they need to do to make money and that is all they care about.

Once in a while,i am fooled for about a week or two then the truth comes out.Example i thought COE might be that game to be true and honest to fans,then flash forward and they are asking for free handouts,cash shop.
Then 99.9% of any game that looks remotely promising,sends out marketing spam all over the net.That marketing is full of deceptive,misleading information/tactics.Then you have to wonder WHY,why are they trying so hard to deceive me if the game is actually really good,answer should be obvious,because it is not really good.

You know the ONLY and EASY way to test your game,via a free trial,free beta,then if you are serious you go back and repair,improve your game,but this is not happening,beta's are FAKE and advertising is dishonest or deceptive.We will see VERY few really good games come our way but be told 99% are sent by god himself.