Reality check for those pushing VR way too hard

Furh79

So there are a few posters here who are all in on the VR hype train.  They like to lie and say the psvr has sold 2 million units when in FACT the 2 million units is only a projection of what Sony hopes to sell by the end of the year.  

Let's put this in prospective a little bit as these VR fanbois are clearly blinded by their own desperation to push VR.  Sony made the announcement about potentially selling 2 million units by the end of the year in October...that's three months to sell 2 million units.  When Xbox launched the Kinect they sold 8 MILLION UNITS IN 60 days.  Guinness book actual gave them the fastest selling consumet electric device award for that feat.  So by Sonys own admission it may take a year to sell as many psvr as Xbox sold Kinects in 60 days.  And it's safe to say the psvr will take years to sell the 24 MILLION Kinects Xbox sold. 

Sorry guys VR is a small niche product that the majority of gamers and the public just are not interested in. 

FlyByKnight

You might as well have put the guys name in the subject header, or put a pair of VR goggles on and said his name 3 times.

bartoni33

FlyByKnight said:

You might as well have put the guys name in the subject header, or put a pair of VR goggles on and said his name 3 times.

Thing is I don't think we will be seeing him reply here because their is nothing in the OP to contradict. They deal in opinion skewing to the extreme, not hard facts.

I may be wrong though but he/she/attackhelicopter rarely replies to trollish threads either. Just saying.

EDIT: "Nice fucking AR model HONK HONK!"

If you get that you are old.

Furh79

FlyByKnight said:

You might as well have put the guys name in the subject header, or put a pair of VR goggles on and said his name 3 times.

Haha good point on saying his name three times.

mgilbrtsn

I'm all in, although I'm waiting for 2nd or 3rd gen.  However, most people on the pro side seem to be in a more defensive/reaction crowd defending VR from the hardcore 'VR is doomed.... VR fail..... VR is a gimmick...etc' crowd.  There are a few who may be a bit overzealous, but that can be said for both sides.

Furh79

mgilbrtsn said:

I'm all in, although I'm waiting for 2nd or 3rd gen.  However, most people on the pro side seem to be in a more defensive/reaction crowd defending VR from the hardcore 'VR is doomed.... VR fail..... VR is a gimmick...etc' crowd.  There are a few who may be a bit overzealous, but that can be said for both sides.

I think VR will do fine it won't blow the doors off with sales but it will do good enough companies like Sony will continue to invest in it. 

Vrika

If PSVR manages to sell 2 million units this year, and continue selling at same pace next year, then it's more than just a niche product.

There's a large if on if they manage to do it, but being hasty and judging PSVR a niche product is just as bad as being hasty and judging PSVR a success. We should wait a bit more and see before making judgements on PSVR.

bartoni33

mgilbrtsn said:

I'm all in, although I'm waiting for 2nd or 3rd gen.  However, most people on the pro side seem to be in a more defensive/reaction crowd defending VR from the hardcore 'VR is doomed.... VR fail..... VR is a gimmick...etc' crowd.  There are a few who may be a bit overzealous, but that can be said for both sides.

Yep I've seen the poster referenced here argue with folks like yourself for many replies ,even though you are "all in" on VR, simply because you don't think it is currently the greatest thing since evolution gave us binocular vision. They have done it to me a few times.

mgilbrtsn

Furh79 said:

mgilbrtsn said:

I'm all in, although I'm waiting for 2nd or 3rd gen.  However, most people on the pro side seem to be in a more defensive/reaction crowd defending VR from the hardcore 'VR is doomed.... VR fail..... VR is a gimmick...etc' crowd.  There are a few who may be a bit overzealous, but that can be said for both sides.

I think VR will do fine it won't blow the doors off with sales but it will do good enough companies like Sony will continue to invest in it. 

In this day and age, people think it's gotta be incredible numbers to be successful.  Anything thing short of google or apple success is seen as failure.  You don't have to make billions to be successful.

Phaserlight

"Hey look, a totally unrelated product in a market separated from present day by over half a decade, designed to do something different, for less than half the cost sold at a rate six times greater than PSVR"!

Not sure what this has to do with the price of tea in China. You are trying too hard. 

PottedPlant22

OP-  Why so aggressive bro?  Why u angry?  Does it matter at all to you, if people are excited about VR?  Why is this post even a thing?  LOL

Andel_Skaar

Tell me when i can play Sword art online as it is in anime, untill than , VR kiss my ***

Wraithone

The current VR is simply the leading edge. Once we move into the next generation of hardware/software its going to be much more than "niche".

Hell, anyone else remember people claiming that "Very few people will ever buy one of those add on video cards!"?...<rolls eyes> 

We are currently in the early adopter phase.  The prices will come down, and the capacities will increase.

BruceYee

Nintendo 3d gave people seizures back in the day and had to be recalled. I'm waiting a long time before trying this for that reason.

waynejr2

VR needs more than visual.  How about sound?  How about body motion capture?  That would be much more VR.  Do you want to settle for less?

maskedweasel

I think theres some merit to the OP,  but only in the specific sense of VR as we know it.

These sets aren't going to fly in the long term.  Already early next year a new, better set, is on the horizon with better all inclusive tracking at a price point well under the other PC sets. 

PCVR  will eventually be marginalized even more.  It's unfortunate, but thats the truth.

What are people most interested in for VR?  




Take a good look at this.. because NONE of these things  aside from "Gaming" require a PC set to accomplish. Taken from the article here  http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2016/06/vr-survey-consumers-more-interested-in-travel-videos-than-gaming/

Games are last on the list of INTEREST among consumers that are interested in VR.  Note, this isn't an indicator of the total amount of population interested in VR, or people that currently OWN VR sets.  

But unfortunately, the end game for VR will excel at Virtual Tourism and certain types of gaming, but AR will soon overtake VR in every other category.  

So we have to think about this in the sense of long term viability.  PC VR isn't selling well now, and it WON'T sell well later.  Microsofts system is their best bet of getting an affordable PC system, and even in that case, it's highly likely their system will work tethered to mobile devices in some fashion.

There will not be a PC VR explosion, even if they decrease what it takes to run VR down to the most basic mass market Acer PC they have out there today.  

Mobile VR will be the biggest market, always.  PSVR will take any straggling gamers, and Microsofts set will likely be the go between for all other systems.  Why is this my outlooks?  

1) Affordability
2) Interactivity
3) Usability 

This is equally why I believe AR will take off as soon as affordable consumer sets are available.  There are no glaring pitfalls when utilizing these sets.  No crafty, long drawn out setup, like the Vives roomscale and the Rifts general setup.

Gruug

Furh79 said:

So there are a few posters here who are all in on the VR hype train.  They like to lie and say the psvr has sold 2 million units when in FACT the 2 million units is only a projection of what Sony hopes to sell by the end of the year.  

Let's put this in prospective a little bit as these VR fanbois are clearly blinded by their own desperation to push VR.  Sony made the announcement about potentially selling 2 million units by the end of the year in October...that's three months to sell 2 million units.  When Xbox launched the Kinect they sold 8 MILLION UNITS IN 60 days.  Guinness book actual gave them the fastest selling consumet electric device award for that feat.  So by Sonys own admission it may take a year to sell as many psvr as Xbox sold Kinects in 60 days.  And it's safe to say the psvr will take years to sell the 24 MILLION Kinects Xbox sold. 

Sorry guys VR is a small niche product that the majority of gamers and the public just are not interested in. 

I agree with this in part. I think that VR has a tremendous potential. However, I just have not seen it used to its potential by game developers. We have only seen a lot of one offs that are really not much more then tech demos in the gaming department. They look pretty but there is just not much long term fun in any of them...so far. IF VR is to ever take off it is going to have to have a major game that takes it in and pushes it. A game like CoD or Battlefield or something with a large audience. AND it has to play like the "traditional" game with VR adding to the experience. Only then will VR start to see some real traction in games.

Tiller

Same on the Steam forums. You get met with a lot of  "U jelly brah?"  and tons of AstroTurfing.

Vrika

maskedweasel said:

I think theres some merit to the OP,  but only in the specific sense of VR as we know it.

These sets aren't going to fly in the long term.  Already early next year a new, better set, is on the horizon with better all inclusive tracking at a price point well under the other PC sets. 

PCVR  will eventually be marginalized even more.  It's unfortunate, but thats the truth.

What are people most interested in for VR?  




Take a good look at this.. because NONE of these things  aside from "Gaming" require a PC set to accomplish. Taken from the article here  http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2016/06/vr-survey-consumers-more-interested-in-travel-videos-than-gaming/

Games are last on the list of INTEREST among consumers that are interested in VR.  Note, this isn't an indicator of the total amount of population interested in VR, or people that currently OWN VR sets.  

But unfortunately, the end game for VR will excel at Virtual Tourism and certain types of gaming, but AR will soon overtake VR in every other category.  

So we have to think about this in the sense of long term viability.  PC VR isn't selling well now, and it WON'T sell well later.  Microsofts system is their best bet of getting an affordable PC system, and even in that case, it's highly likely their system will work tethered to mobile devices in some fashion.

There will not be a PC VR explosion, even if they decrease what it takes to run VR down to the most basic mass market Acer PC they have out there today.  

Mobile VR will be the biggest market, always.  PSVR will take any straggling gamers, and Microsofts set will likely be the go between for all other systems.  Why is this my outlooks?  

1) Affordability
2) Interactivity
3) Usability 

This is equally why I believe AR will take off as soon as affordable consumer sets are available.  There are no glaring pitfalls when utilizing these sets.  No crafty, long drawn out setup, like the Vives roomscale and the Rifts general setup.

You have to remember the consumers are very often wrong.

Kinect is a good example. Millions and millions of sets were sold because the idea sounded good and people wanted to have it, but after testing it for a time most people realized they were wrong and Kinect faded into insignificance.

Furh79

PottedPlant22 said:

OP-  Why so aggressive bro?  Why u angry?  Does it matter at all to you, if people are excited about VR?  Why is this post even a thing?  LOL

Why is this post a thing?  Well because we are in what the grown ups call a forum.  A forum is where people post things called post  if a person wants to post a post they do not need to call and get your permission.  

  I never said the VR fanbois can't post I was just pointing out their hype is a little over the top if you don't agree that's fine but if you think people need to get their post approved by you well you have issue then. 

jimmywolf

love it or hate it  VR in any form even the future halo set 100+ years from now were it all projected into your mind, will be a gimmick. that does not make it bad, just a item they sell. i was happy playing 2d pixel games while rest world laughed an called it a gimmick that would fade.


current VR Thu is way to limited to be something special for me, as it literal nothing you cannot play normally. it's just  something covering your eyes to make you "believe" your their, when truthfully i have the same immersion in games even with out a head set.

maskedweasel

MisterZebub said:

maskedweasel said:

I think theres some merit to the OP,  but only in the specific sense of VR as we know it.

These sets aren't going to fly in the long term.  Already early next year a new, better set, is on the horizon with better all inclusive tracking at a price point well under the other PC sets. 

PCVR  will eventually be marginalized even more.  It's unfortunate, but thats the truth.

What are people most interested in for VR?  




Take a good look at this.. because NONE of these things  aside from "Gaming" require a PC set to accomplish. Taken from the article here  http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2016/06/vr-survey-consumers-more-interested-in-travel-videos-than-gaming/

Games are last on the list of INTEREST among consumers that are interested in VR.  Note, this isn't an indicator of the total amount of population interested in VR, or people that currently OWN VR sets.  

But unfortunately, the end game for VR will excel at Virtual Tourism and certain types of gaming, but AR will soon overtake VR in every other category.  

So we have to think about this in the sense of long term viability.  PC VR isn't selling well now, and it WON'T sell well later.  Microsofts system is their best bet of getting an affordable PC system, and even in that case, it's highly likely their system will work tethered to mobile devices in some fashion.

There will not be a PC VR explosion, even if they decrease what it takes to run VR down to the most basic mass market Acer PC they have out there today.  

Mobile VR will be the biggest market, always.  PSVR will take any straggling gamers, and Microsofts set will likely be the go between for all other systems.  Why is this my outlooks?  

1) Affordability
2) Interactivity
3) Usability 

This is equally why I believe AR will take off as soon as affordable consumer sets are available.  There are no glaring pitfalls when utilizing these sets.  No crafty, long drawn out setup, like the Vives roomscale and the Rifts general setup.

And what category do we not see on that chart? Virtual Pornography. Which if people were honest would kick everything else on the charts ass.

My biggest reason why I say VR isn't that interesting right now? The games are few and far between and most of them suck. I imagine for the people investing in VR tech for gaming currently it must feel like it did for the first people to buy television sets. Rather expense and not much to actually watch. Until there are actually games out there worth playing the state of the technology means fuck all to me.

I was going to address that. I do have a set, I have tested it,  I'm sorry to report, that it takes a special kind of person to do that over regular porn.  

What people who LOVE VR think: "Soon everyone who has a set will want to watch everything on a VR set"   

The reality:   It's uncomfortable.  It just is.  What drives people to adopt a consumer product is ease of use, and that is NOT VR.  I'm sorry but it isn't.   Navigation isn't simple.  If we're talking about porn directly, view angles don't always work well, panning videos isn't nearly as simple.  Some sets require trial and error.  Again it's uncomfortable, because they expect you to be in the exact same position as the videographer.  

It may be what people THINK they want.  It isn't a vast driving demand though.  It might be for the "early adopters" of VR,  for obvious reasons..   I mean if you're super jazzed about Virtual Porn, I could think of one big glaring reason why... and it will probably cross the same marks as those japanese hugging pillows and girlfriend video games.

maskedweasel

Vrika said:

You have to remember the consumers are very often wrong.

Kinect is a good example. Millions and millions of sets were sold because the idea sounded good and people wanted to have it, but after testing it for a time most people realized they were wrong and Kinect faded into insignificance.

The kinect is a good example..  but we also have to remember, early Kinect never lived up to its expectations, and it wasn't until the XB1 version that it really started showing what it was capable of,  but consumers were already over it.  

The Kinect was, and still is,  an amazing peripheral, one at which I think Microsoft isn't finished developing with.  I think they'll use the technology in other devices,  but for games and even just for navigation, it was shoddy at best with little app support.  I can't remember how many times I just wanted to use it for netflix but so many of the gestures wouldn't work.

I believe what it will come down to is ease of use. Current VR isn't that easy to use. PSVR is a little easier, and mobile VR easier than that...but they each have hurdles that keep me from really wanting to use them that transcends even the lack of games.

I believe in this regard AR will be much better because it has a broader purpose that actually has utility across each of those things on my list.  

When I got my VR set I imagined I could put it on in bed.. stare straight up and watch netflix while essentially staring and the ceiling. 

Instead if I'm in bed and want to watch netflix, I have to pretend I'm in a theater, and crane my neck and basically kill myself if I'm trying to lay comfortably.  

Phaserlight

maskedweasel said:

Vrika said:

You have to remember the consumers are very often wrong.

Kinect is a good example. Millions and millions of sets were sold because the idea sounded good and people wanted to have it, but after testing it for a time most people realized they were wrong and Kinect faded into insignificance.

The kinect is a good example..  but we also have to remember, early Kinect never lived up to its expectations, and it wasn't until the XB1 version that it really started showing what it was capable of,  but consumers were already over it.  

The Kinect was, and still is,  an amazing peripheral, one at which I think Microsoft isn't finished developing with.  I think they'll use the technology in other devices,  but for games and even just for navigation, it was shoddy at best with little app support.  I can't remember how many times I just wanted to use it for netflix but so many of the gestures wouldn't work.

I believe what it will come down to is ease of use. Current VR isn't that easy to use. PSVR is a little easier, and mobile VR easier than that...but they each have hurdles that keep me from really wanting to use them that transcends even the lack of games.

I believe in this regard AR will be much better because it has a broader purpose that actually has utility across each of those things on my list.  

When I got my VR set I imagined I could put it on in bed.. stare straight up and watch netflix while essentially staring and the ceiling. 

Instead if I'm in bed and want to watch netflix, I have to pretend I'm in a theater, and crane my neck and basically kill myself if I'm trying to lay comfortably.  

I haven't tested Netflix in VR but if this is true they really should get with the times. Samsung Internet lets you reposition the screen so you can lie in bed and watch a video while looking straight at the ceiling. 

That stated, I would just as soon watch a video on my phone most of the time. 

Full surround stereoscopic video content is a different story.

maskedweasel

Phaserlight said:

maskedweasel said:

Vrika said:

You have to remember the consumers are very often wrong.

Kinect is a good example. Millions and millions of sets were sold because the idea sounded good and people wanted to have it, but after testing it for a time most people realized they were wrong and Kinect faded into insignificance.

The kinect is a good example..  but we also have to remember, early Kinect never lived up to its expectations, and it wasn't until the XB1 version that it really started showing what it was capable of,  but consumers were already over it.  

The Kinect was, and still is,  an amazing peripheral, one at which I think Microsoft isn't finished developing with.  I think they'll use the technology in other devices,  but for games and even just for navigation, it was shoddy at best with little app support.  I can't remember how many times I just wanted to use it for netflix but so many of the gestures wouldn't work.

I believe what it will come down to is ease of use. Current VR isn't that easy to use. PSVR is a little easier, and mobile VR easier than that...but they each have hurdles that keep me from really wanting to use them that transcends even the lack of games.

I believe in this regard AR will be much better because it has a broader purpose that actually has utility across each of those things on my list.  

When I got my VR set I imagined I could put it on in bed.. stare straight up and watch netflix while essentially staring and the ceiling. 

Instead if I'm in bed and want to watch netflix, I have to pretend I'm in a theater, and crane my neck and basically kill myself if I'm trying to lay comfortably.  

I haven't tested Netflix in VR but if this is true they really should get with the times. Samsung Internet lets you reposition the screen so you can lie in bed and watch a video while looking straight at the ceiling. 

That stated, I would just as soon watch a video on my phone most of the time. 

Full surround stereoscopic video content is a different story.

It's with both Netflix and Hulu. It's like you're in a stadium.  Samsung Internet does allow you to position videos, and I haven't actually tested to see if you can stream Netflix through the Samsung Internet App.

I have noticed that sometimes it is a little strange to get positioning right, in certain situations.  It seems like some "built for VR" videos put you into a different app than just the 360 Video ones like what YouTube and Facebook use.  

I think what Netflix and Hulu did was try and do what they believed was right for those interested in VR, which was build an Experience, rather than make something easy to use.  If you're sitting on a couch and watching Netflix, you get a theater experience,  but if I'm watching TV it's usually lounging, and the current apps really aren't good for that.

ChicagoCub

Vrika said:

If PSVR manages to sell 2 million units this year, and continue selling at same pace next year, then it's more than just a niche product.

There's a large if on if they manage to do it, but being hasty and judging PSVR a niche product is just as bad as being hasty and judging PSVR a success. We should wait a bit more and see before making judgements on PSVR.

Yeah that's doable.  If you have Christmas once every two months.